Swap Ls400 1990-92 Brake Calipers

[moosebeer]

I know the SC300 SC400 brakes swap with the SupraTT brakes, but I have a 90LS400 and want to upgrade the brakes at some point. Do any of the 1993 and newer models calipers fit in the 1990-92's?

Any other makes like SupraTT or others which may fit would be helpful too.

Thanks,

Eac

[python]

yes they will but the TT will work also

http://www.lextreme.com/lsbrake.html

[moosebeer]

yes they will but the TT will work also

http://www.lextreme.com/lsbrake.html

Thanks for that. I can get a pair of 2000 LS400 calipers on EBay for 250. I know I need to get the rotors that match that year or year series. I know Lexus upgraded the brakes in 1993 but are the brakes from 1993 same for subsequent years or did Lexus do another upgrade and change mounting holes, rotor sizes, master cylinder configuration, ABS computer, valving etc.... in any year after 1995.

I assumed that LS 400 93-95 would be a bolt on to the LS400 90-92 years, but are the brakes from 1996-2000 also bolt on to LS 400 1990-92?

The Supra TT's are too expensive for me, and I'm looking to upgrade for enhanced safety as my kids will be using the car.

Thanks for any specific info and guidance.

[PureDrifter]

yes they will but the TT will work also

http://www.lextreme.com/lsbrake.html

Thanks for that. I can get a pair of 2000 LS400 calipers on EBay for 250. I know I need to get the rotors that match that year or year series. I know Lexus upgraded the brakes in 1993 but are the brakes from 1993 same for subsequent years or did Lexus do another upgrade and change mounting holes, rotor sizes, master cylinder configuration, ABS computer, valving etc.... in any year after 1995.

I assumed that LS 400 93-95 would be a bolt on to the LS400 90-92 years, but are the brakes from 1996-2000 also bolt on to LS 400 1990-92?

The Supra TT's are too expensive for me, and I'm looking to upgrade for enhanced safety as my kids will be using the car.

Thanks for any specific info and guidance.

lexus changed the brake pattern in 06 with the 3GS series and earlier with the 2IS. also, the LS430 uses different bolt pattern for the calipers, so those are out as well.

basically, the 95+ 4pots will fit, BUT you will need to either shave down a ball joint bolt or get some roll center adjusters (RCAs) to move them out of the way (has the added benefit of correcting camber on lowered cars and lowering the car a tiny bit further as well) problem is that RCAs are ~$400-600 from japan or ~$300 in the US IF you can find them.

both the 1LS and 1,2GS have to this problem. The GS guys get cheap RCAs from several sources but they don't swap into the LS. supposedly using 95+ lower balljoints solves this issue on the 1LS. also, TT brakes don't have this problem at all. the 2LS calipers are actually thicker than the TT since the TT are either all steel or half steel half alum and the 2LS is a 100% aluminum 2pc caliper.

[moosebeer]

yes they will but the TT will work also

http://www.lextreme.com/lsbrake.html

Thanks for that. I can get a pair of 2000 LS400 calipers on EBay for 250. I know I need to get the rotors that match that year or year series. I know Lexus upgraded the brakes in 1993 but are the brakes from 1993 same for subsequent years or did Lexus do another upgrade and change mounting holes, rotor sizes, master cylinder configuration, ABS computer, valving etc.... in any year after 1995.

I assumed that LS 400 93-95 would be a bolt on to the LS400 90-92 years, but are the brakes from 1996-2000 also bolt on to LS 400 1990-92?

The Supra TT's are too expensive for me, and I'm looking to upgrade for enhanced safety as my kids will be using the car.

Thanks for any specific info and guidance.

lexus changed the brake pattern in 06 with the 3GS series and earlier with the 2IS. also, the LS430 uses different bolt pattern for the calipers, so those are out as well.

basically, the 95+ 4pots will fit, BUT you will need to either shave down a ball joint bolt or get some roll center adjusters (RCAs) to move them out of the way (has the added benefit of correcting camber on lowered cars and lowering the car a tiny bit further as well) problem is that RCAs are ~$400-600 from japan or ~$300 in the US IF you can find them.

both the 1LS and 1,2GS have to this problem. The GS guys get cheap RCAs from several sources but they don't swap into the LS. supposedly using 95+ lower balljoints solves this issue on the 1LS. also, TT brakes don't have this problem at all. the 2LS calipers are actually thicker than the TT since the TT are either all steel or half steel half alum and the 2LS is a 100% aluminum 2pc caliper.

thanks for that, I'm trying to figure this all out before I spend on any parts. I checked the part numbers online late last night and the steering knuckle is the same from 1990 to 2000 so I figured the 1995-2000 calipers would fit, but didn't realize they would touch the ball joint, and hadn't known about the roll center adjusters. it may be easier to use the 95+ ball joints as you suggest.

Regards,

Ed

[PureDrifter]

yes they will but the TT will work also

http://www.lextreme.com/lsbrake.html

Thanks for that. I can get a pair of 2000 LS400 calipers on EBay for 250. I know I need to get the rotors that match that year or year series. I know Lexus upgraded the brakes in 1993 but are the brakes from 1993 same for subsequent years or did Lexus do another upgrade and change mounting holes, rotor sizes, master cylinder configuration, ABS computer, valving etc.... in any year after 1995.

I assumed that LS 400 93-95 would be a bolt on to the LS400 90-92 years, but are the brakes from 1996-2000 also bolt on to LS 400 1990-92?

The Supra TT's are too expensive for me, and I'm looking to upgrade for enhanced safety as my kids will be using the car.

Thanks for any specific info and guidance.

lexus changed the brake pattern in 06 with the 3GS series and earlier with the 2IS. also, the LS430 uses different bolt pattern for the calipers, so those are out as well.

basically, the 95+ 4pots will fit, BUT you will need to either shave down a ball joint bolt or get some roll center adjusters (RCAs) to move them out of the way (has the added benefit of correcting camber on lowered cars and lowering the car a tiny bit further as well) problem is that RCAs are ~$400-600 from japan or ~$300 in the US IF you can find them.

both the 1LS and 1,2GS have to this problem. The GS guys get cheap RCAs from several sources but they don't swap into the LS. supposedly using 95+ lower balljoints solves this issue on the 1LS. also, TT brakes don't have this problem at all. the 2LS calipers are actually thicker than the TT since the TT are either all steel or half steel half alum and the 2LS is a 100% aluminum 2pc caliper.

thanks for that, I'm trying to figure this all out before I spend on any parts. I checked the part numbers online late last night and the steering knuckle is the same from 1990 to 2000 so I figured the 1995-2000 calipers would fit, but didn't realize they would touch the ball joint, and hadn't known about the roll center adjusters. it may be easier to use the 95+ ball joints as you suggest.

Regards,

Ed

yep, any 95+ lower ball joint set will work fine. the early cars have a step in the balljoints that foul the larger calipers. the later ones will make a difference (slight) to the alignment so make sure to get an alignment afterwards.

[moosebeer]

yep, any 95+ lower ball joint set will work fine. the early cars have a step in the balljoints that foul the larger calipers. the later ones will make a difference (slight) to the alignment so make sure to get an alignment afterwards.

Awesum! I think I have all the info I need. I stillhave plenty of good miles left on the current set of tires, when they wear down I'll do the mod.

I'll keep an eye out on ebay and craigslist as well as any recycle yards to pick up the lower ball joint set, rotors and calipers as well as rims if the price is right.

Thanks for all the good info!!!

[don corleone]

a 90 LS has single piston caliper all around. not a good idea as Lexus promptly chaged them to dual piston for the 91 year model. that being said the 91-94 dual piston calipers will bolt on a 90 without any mods and gives you increased stopping power. you can also upgrade to stainless steel brake lines. the 95+ LS's use 4 piston claipers just like the Supra TT but those are very different than the 1st gen. most painless upgrade is the dual pistons which you can either purchase new or find them at a junk yard

[moosebeer]

a 90 LS has single piston caliper all around. not a good idea as Lexus promptly chaged them to dual piston for the 91 year model. that being said the 91-94 dual piston calipers will bolt on a 90 without any mods and gives you increased stopping power. you can also upgrade to stainless steel brake lines. the 95+ LS's use 4 piston claipers just like the Supra TT but those are very different than the 1st gen. most painless upgrade is the dual pistons which you can either purchase new or find them at a junk yard

I took the old girl for a drive yesterday in the rain, and I agree the single piston is not confidence inspiring. I checked the parts and the rotor part numbers are the same. But they offer a 16"x7" wheel part number for the GKK series in 1991. The wheels listed below apply to 1991 so will the dual piston work with the 15" wheels I have?

42611‑50010 UCF10; 15X6.5JJ, TYPE A:REFER TO ILLUSTRATION, RH 2 $460.31

42611‑50020 UCF10; 15X6.5JJ, TYPE A:REFER TO ILLUSTRATION, LH 2 $460.31

42611‑50050 UCF10; 15X6.5JJ, TYPE A:REFER TO ILLUSTRATION, RH 2 $458.42

42611‑50060 UCF10; 15X6.5JJ, TYPE A:REFER TO ILLUSTRATION, LH 2 $458.42

42611‑50070 UCF10; 16X7JJ, TYPE B:REFER TO ILLUSTRATION 4 $457.99

42611‑50100 UCF10; 16X7JJ, TYPE B:REFER TO ILLUSTRATION 4 $478.90

[PureDrifter]

having thoroughly driven a couple 1st gen cars, with both single and dual piston calipers, then driving my LS again...

1LS Brakes just plain out Suck. :chairshot:

the 4pots are in a whole different league of braking power.

oh, and to the poster who suggested SS lines, they don't actually IMPROVE your braking POWER, all they do is improve pedal feel, but even then, will not make it any more firmer than the original (aka OEM) ones will if they were New.

save your money, go 4piston.

[don corleone]

if you view the file i've uploaded you can see an exploded view of both the 90 and 91 front brake systems. the only difference is the single to dual piston change but the dual piston caliper uses the same amount of space as the single. do you see the torque plate. exactly the same. I completely agree that the single and maybe the dual piston calipers suck seeing as most honda civics of the era have single piston calipers (much lighter car). the main thing that SS brake lines do from the reviews ive read is that it firms up the brake pedal by removing the expandable rubber lines. there is a full tutorial and review on lexls.com. i've been planing to upgrade my brake system also i just haven't had the time. you can go to irotors.com and purchase brand new cross drilled and slotted brembo rotors for about 200. should help improve stopping power also.

also remember that brake calipers can be fully rebuilt with factory parts so junkyard calipers are always a good option.

brake_system.pdf

[PureDrifter]

if you view the file i've uploaded you can see an exploded view of both the 90 and 91 front brake systems. the only difference is the single to dual piston change but the dual piston caliper uses the same amount of space as the single. do you see the torque plate. exactly the same. I completely agree that the single and maybe the dual piston calipers suck seeing as most honda civics of the era have single piston calipers (much lighter car). the main thing that SS brake lines do from the reviews ive read is that it firms up the brake pedal by removing the expandable rubber lines. there is a full tutorial and review on lexls.com. i've been planing to upgrade my brake system also i just haven't had the time. you can go to irotors.com and purchase brand new cross drilled and slotted brembo rotors for about 200. should help improve stopping power also.

also remember that brake calipers can be fully rebuilt with factory parts so junkyard calipers are always a good option.

a-SS Lines only really improve OLD factory lines, new OEM rubber brake lines for ~1/4 the cost of SS lines will give you the same feel.

b-drilled/slotted rotors don't improve "stopping" power at ALL. they only (repeat ONLY) combat brake FADE. you may actually notice a DECREASE in braking power (though extremely slight) due to the decreased surface area of the rotor.

[moosebeer]

Thanks, I think that using the SS lines would be marginally more expensive than new OEM lines, I wouldn't need to change when I go to 4 pot calipers. I just don't have the cash right now to go to 4 pots, which would require rims, tires, and rotors too. My tires are good for another 20K. It looks like going to 2 pots is a step in the right direction until I wear down the tires. It's good to know I can bolt on the 2 pots without having to get 16" rims cause that would defeat the purpose otherwise I might as well go for the 4 pots if I have to change the rims too.

I know you Lexus afficionados have moved on from the first gen cars, but I am new to them and can appreciate my 1990. Glad I haven't driven the 2nd or 3rd gen cars cause I might feel less happy. After doing the 90K service and tune up I'm into the vehicle for $4200 (tax and license included) with 99k miles, and the exterior and interior about a 7.5/10 and 9/10 respectively.

You may understand when you learn my other vehicles are a 2005 chevy 2500truck (duramax), and a 95 mazda 626. Before that I had a 91 camry wagon (X took that one), jeep commando, 83 land cruiser, ford econoline van, etc...

Cheers,

Ed

[Marklouis]

since were on the subject of brakes, on a 95 ls400 - the combined disk/drum brakes in the rear, are the drum parts active when braking? or only active when the PB is applied...didnt even realize the rear rotors had inner drums till i had to take them off to replace some wheel studs.. ;) . they are very thin and cracking right now thats why im thinking they assist the disk pads in braking..

[PureDrifter]

since were on the subject of brakes, on a 95 ls400 - the combined disk/drum brakes in the rear, are the drum parts active when braking? or only active when the PB is applied...didnt even realize the rear rotors had inner drums till i had to take them off to replace some wheel studs.. ;) . they are very thin and cracking right now thats why im thinking they assist the disk pads in braking..

i believe, but not sure, that they ONLY function as the parking brake. mind you, you would only have to drive on them a couple times (with the brakes on) to toast the lining.

[Erich]

Do i need the caliper brackets from 95-00 brake systems. I just picked up 93-94 2 pot's but i think i am going to just order the 95 calipers and ball joints. Do i need to get these caliper brackets?

[Erich]

Nevermind. I see the 95-00 have no bracket. I ordered these calipers rebuilt for $59 plus $25 core from a part store. I ordered OEM Toyota ball joints off ebay for $139 shipped. Now i am just picking my rotors and pads.

[pishta]

Most 4 disc autos have some sort of drum brake for PB function. Much easier to mechanically actuate a drum than a disk setup with a cable. Many rear disk retrofit conversions for older muscle cars utilize a common GM setup that has the integral drum parking brake. And those vented cross drilled rotors, save them for fade prone racing cars. Lower surface area means less stopping power and all those holes and slots make for a weaker disc.

[PureDrifter]

Nevermind. I see the 95-00 have no bracket. I ordered these calipers rebuilt for $59 plus $25 core from a part store. I ordered OEM Toyota ball joints off ebay for $139 shipped. Now i am just picking my rotors and pads.

keep us posted.

slots don't decrease the strength of the rotor NEARLY as much as holes do.

[Binari]

Hi, Updating this post under a new name.

I started this post almost a year ago.

IN the mean time I got a set of 1996 wheels, calipers, rotors and lower ball joints from the same wrecked car all for $400.

everything was in good shape - or so I thought.

Back story, I got the 1990 ls400 with 99K and planned to upgrade the brakes when the tires wore out. In stead at 112K my original front brake pads were worn out so my son and I swapped out the rotors, calipers and lower ball joints. I took it to get aligned and was told the ball joints were bad and i needed a new tie rod end.

The car stops really nicely now, but it steers like sh*t. So I only have driven it to the alignment shop and home.

Question is does the lower position of the 95+ lower control arm/ball joint affect the steering significantly? I don't doubt I should change the control arm/ball joint part.

the other puzzle is that the tie rod ends were replaced at 93K so it seems odd that they would be bad in 15K so I am wondering if the position of the control arm is torquing the tie rod ends and damaging them before I get ot the alignment shop (about 8 miles away)?