Am I Getting Hosed?

[MidNightGS430]

Hello my fellow Lexus owners!! Been to this site before, And I had to register. Anyway I just purchased a 2001 Lexus GS430 with 95,000 Miles on it, and super clean! The car was initially sitting for roughly 3 months give or take? The first night I brought her home after a long drive she left a good puddle of tranny fluid in my driveway. The next morning I made sure I topped it off, and I drove the vehicle a few more days with minimal leaking, but it was leaking a little bit. Keep in mind it never slipped once! Nor did it clunk or slam into reverse or any gear for that matter. To be honest this car shifts smoother than any car ive driven. But the leak is a major concern so I took it to a "Reputable" transmission shop, And had them examine it. They stated the leak is most likely due to the front transmission pump failing and wouldnt know anything exact until its pulled apart. So I gave them the go ahead to pull the tranny. When they pulled the tranny apart there were metal shavings in the pan, and they stated the torque converter needs replacing, and that the front pump is bad!! They also said since theres shavings in the tranny its gonna need a rebuild at the cost of $3,500!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OUCH.......Now is it possible the tranny is gone due to the metal shavings in the pan even though it has shifted fine and never ever slipped of slammed into gears???????? I need some honest opinions. Its hard to trust someone with your vehicle, and trust they're being honest with you or if they are just wanting to take advantage of the old well its a "LEXUS"??!!

Help Me out!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks

[djspawn00]

I'm pretty certain you can just get a good used transmission on put it in for less than that....

I can't say if they're being honest or not without actually taking a look at the car but you can always check your states department of consumer affairs to see how they stand in terms of complaints.

sounds a lil sketchy to me though....

[MidNightGS430]

I'm pretty certain you can just get a good used transmission on put it in for less than that....

I can't say if they're being honest or not without actually taking a look at the car but you can always check your states department of consumer affairs to see how they stand in terms of complaints.

sounds a lil sketchy to me though....

Thanks for the quick response! Well its a catch 22 because im getting charged close to $800 for just the labor of pulling it out! They said they can replace the torque converter, the front pump and all necessary gaskets and seals, filter and fluid, and that will put me at $1200! But again there tryin to put fear in me with the tranny shavings, and saying that it might not last long without the rebuild!?? Im torn here......Its a gamble whether I go for a used tranny? or just hope that there full of it, and it'll be fine after they do the repairs mentioned! Again from my knowledge ive never heard of a tranny needing a rebuild that didnt slip or clunk into gears?? Considering how smooth and strong the tranny felt regaurdless of the shavings it seems odd that it would need a rebuild!??????????

[1990LS400]

Metal debri is normal and may not mean anything at all. I was disgusted when one of my brother-in-laws told me a couple of years ago that, as a manager of a well known franchised transmission shop, he had to meet a transmission rebuild quota every single week. It didn't matter if a transmission needed to be rebuilt -- he had to rebuild a certain amount of transmissions every single week to keep his job.

[eatingupblacktop]

Do you know the service history of the car? What were the fluid change intervals? Doesn't cost $800 to drop the pan. Minor shavings are normal wear and tear. They can also be added by an unscrupulous shop. How reputable is this shop? What color was the fluid and what was the level?

If your level was low, the pump will draw some air. Aerated fluid can cause slippage and damage to clutches and bands. Too much fluid can also become aerated, causing the same probs. Aerated fluid can also rise in the case and leak from the breather plug at the top of the tranny or through the dipstick tube. Make sure this is not your problem before paying out for a rebuild.

Do a gentle flush, refill (make sure the levels are on the mark) and take it for a long drive. Note any change in shifting, power, lagging, etc. Then check for leaks and level. I'm assuming you know to check the level when tranny is at normal operating temps. Oh yeah, and get a second opinion if you do need repair.

[MidNightGS430]

Do you know the service history of the car? What were the fluid change intervals? Doesn't cost $800 to drop the pan. Minor shavings are normal wear and tear. They can also be added by an unscrupulous shop. How reputable is this shop? What color was the fluid and what was the level?

If your level was low, the pump will draw some air. Aerated fluid can cause slippage and damage to clutches and bands. Too much fluid can also become aerated, causing the same probs. Aerated fluid can also rise in the case and leak from the breather plug at the top of the tranny or through the dipstick tube. Make sure this is not your problem before paying out for a rebuild.

Do a gentle flush, refill (make sure the levels are on the mark) and take it for a long drive. Note any change in shifting, power, lagging, etc. Then check for leaks and level. I'm assuming you know to check the level when tranny is at normal operating temps. Oh yeah, and get a second opinion if you do need repair.

Not sure the history of what has been done, But when I got it all of the fluids looked normal. The trans fluid was bright red like its been serviced before/or recently!? For 95,000 miles on the car if it was never serviced im sure it wouldnt have been bright red, But more of a motor oil look. Again it never slipped whether it was cold or warm. And it never had any hard shifts!! The fluid has been at the recommended level.

After doing some research the shop has had complaints in the past! Not sure what exactly, but they have had some complaints.

I did have the car checked out from two different shops and both said either the seal or front pump. It wasnt leaking from the pan, But from the front of the transmission where the engine and trans connect....My first thought was a seal hardened up from sitting causing the leak!? But apparently its the front pump, and a bad torque converter? The pump makes some sense but the converter?? Im pretty knowledgeble regaurding the mechanics of vehicles and usually do my own work due to not trusting somebody else to handle my vehicles, But at the same time im not a tranny specialist. But I do know symptoms of a bad transmission, and from my experience tranny slipping, Reverse not catching, hard shifts etc.

And they have the tranny out of the car and sitting on there shop table as we speak with the pan off, and the pump and converter removed, So either way I gotta cough up there labor costs roughly $650............... :(

[sakataj]

the short answer to your post topic.....

YES,yes u r getting hosed. find a new (new to you or a used) and leave that shop but remember SOME metal shavings are normal

[MidNightGS430]

the short answer to your post topic.....

YES,yes u r getting hosed. find a new (new to you or a used) and leave that shop but remember SOME metal shavings are normal

Thanks for the replies everyone!

I know I am now that Ive done my research I even spoke to a Lexus service manager and he gave me a price of $3750 including labor and core charge for a new transmission. Plus they would pick up the tab for the shop its at and give me a loaner vehicle!! Gotta love the Lexus red carpet treatment. He also said hes never seen a transmission in a GS have to be replaced since hes been at Lexus the past 10 years!! Which is what I figured, Its a Lexus not a damn Ford probe

Again this tranny shops main objective is to scare me into the rebuild from the metal shavings, And yea your right the shavings are somewhat normal. I dont think ive ever serviced a trans without seeing metal shavings!! These guys are just tryin get a quick buck. Shady operations.......Its funny because they said Lexus would charge me $6000 what a joke!!

But im gonna roll the dice and go off my instinct and experience that the transmission does not need to be rebuilt. Either way im in the hole $1200 for everything at this point!! I'll chalk it up as a lesson learned, And make sure shes only handled by Lexus for future issues.

[SRK]

Any metal "shavings" are NOT normal. Anything big enough to see as a distinct particle is NOT normal. Some grey sludge on a magnet is ok, like many transmissions have, but not particles.

However it's possible that they placed the pieces in the pan to scare you. It is very rare for these transmissions to fail like that, and you would have had some symptoms.

They are a rip-off outfit. They will probably clean the pan and re-install it and charge the money for nothing. It's happened before.

There was no need to remove the trans to inspect the pan, and that's my first indication that they are hosing you.

Get the car away from them and watch them box up the bits. Go to another shop - maybe a dealer - and have them inspect the trans carefully and put it back in. The oil leak might be a seal (simple) or over-filling of the trans when it was last serviced.

You are in a tough spot as you gave them permission to remove the trans. Oldest trick in the book.

[MidNightGS430]

Any metal "shavings" are NOT normal. Anything big enough to see as a distinct particle is NOT normal. Some grey sludge on a magnet is ok, like many transmissions have, but not particles.

However it's possible that they placed the pieces in the pan to scare you. It is very rare for these transmissions to fail like that, and you would have had some symptoms.

They are a rip-off outfit. They will probably clean the pan and re-install it and charge the money for nothing. It's happened before.

There was no need to remove the trans to inspect the pan, and that's my first indication that they are hosing you.

Get the car away from them and watch them box up the bits. Go to another shop - maybe a dealer - and have them inspect the trans carefully and put it back in. The oil leak might be a seal (simple) or over-filling of the trans when it was last serviced.

You are in a tough spot as you gave them permission to remove the trans. Oldest trick in the book.

Yeah im really in a tough spot right now!! Either way I have to eat the labor costs, And I had to learn the hard way on this one. Well at this point all I can do is have them replace the front pump and torque converter and fluid and filter and request the old parts for proof that they didnt just slap it back together like you said. And i'll have to get it home and drop the pan myself to confirm they at least cleaned it and replaced the filter. I'll probably just replace the filter and correct toyota fluid just for piece of mind, cause they can throw whatever fluid in there knowing the problems it can cause or worse not clean the pan or replace the filter which will cause damage!!.........Damn what a slap in the face!

[oasis22]

Any metal "shavings" are NOT normal. Anything big enough to see as a distinct particle is NOT normal. Some grey sludge on a magnet is ok, like many transmissions have, but not particles.

However it's possible that they placed the pieces in the pan to scare you. It is very rare for these transmissions to fail like that, and you would have had some symptoms.

They are a rip-off outfit. They will probably clean the pan and re-install it and charge the money for nothing. It's happened before.

There was no need to remove the trans to inspect the pan, and that's my first indication that they are hosing you.

Get the car away from them and watch them box up the bits. Go to another shop - maybe a dealer - and have them inspect the trans carefully and put it back in. The oil leak might be a seal (simple) or over-filling of the trans when it was last serviced.

You are in a tough spot as you gave them permission to remove the trans. Oldest trick in the book.

Yeah im really in a tough spot right now!! Either way I have to eat the labor costs, And I had to learn the hard way on this one. Well at this point all I can do is have them replace the front pump and torque converter and fluid and filter and request the old parts for proof that they didnt just slap it back together like you said. And i'll have to get it home and drop the pan myself to confirm they at least cleaned it and replaced the filter. I'll probably just replace the filter and correct toyota fluid just for piece of mind, cause they can throw whatever fluid in there knowing the problems it can cause or worse not clean the pan or replace the filter which will cause damage!!.........Damn what a slap in the face!

[oasis22]

I had the same problem with my transmission after it was serviced by Carmax. The transmission has an overflow valve on it. If the transmission is overfilled, this valve opens to allow the excess fluid to bleed out to prevent damage to the transmission (brillant!!). The bleeding went on for days. It took it back to the dealer and they did admit that it was overfilled and corrected it by draining and refilling it. I have had 0 problems with the transmission since. This could be your problem as well, especially since the fluid was pink. Like the other guy said, you should get a second opinion. Most shops are only interested in profit only. Always check around.

[sakataj]

I'll probably just replace the filter and correct toyota fluid just for piece of mind, cause they can throw whatever fluid in there knowing the problems it can cause or worse not clean the pan or replace the filter which will cause damage!!.........Damn what a slap in the face!

um don't u think u should ATLEAST have it looked at by a competent mechanic...so you don't end up stuck somewhere someday?

[MidNightGS430]

I'll probably just replace the filter and correct toyota fluid just for piece of mind, cause they can throw whatever fluid in there knowing the problems it can cause or worse not clean the pan or replace the filter which will cause damage!!.........Damn what a slap in the face!

um don't u think u should ATLEAST have it looked at by a competent mechanic...so you don't end up stuck somewhere someday?

Yes of course! Again theres only so much you can see without dropping the transmission, But I can drop the pan and inspect it, And I will replace the filter and fluid again after there finished with it just to make sure. I would rather be safe than sorry!

[MidNightGS430]

Just an update guys! I just got back from the trans shop that has my car..........And WOW what a bunch of untactful, unprofessional "so -called" Business owners the way these guys operate is unbelievable!!!! I called them out on there pricing of the rebuild, and the other parts quoted boy they were speachless!! The owner even came at me in a threatening way I was in utter disbelief and SHOCK!! How they can attempt to get over on there clients and then verbally threat them!! Long story short after a long face to face heated argument on their practices or lack there of, And threats of going to the Attorney General and BBB. They agreed to hand me my tranny in a box, and let me take the car for $250 vs. the $650 of original labor costs..........I know I know I shouldnt have to pay a dime, But they got me on the fine print!! I guess I had to learn never EVER to trust anyone EVER EVER EVER again and these guys will never get a referral from me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its sad cause I actually went to these guys before for regular servicing, and trusted them!! SHAME ON ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[eatingupblacktop]

Just an update guys! I just got back from the trans shop that has my car..........And WOW what a bunch of untactful, unprofessional "so -called" Business owners the way these guys operate is unbelievable!!!! I called them out on there pricing of the rebuild, and the other parts quoted boy they were speachless!! The owner even came at me in a threatening way I was in utter disbelief and SHOCK!! How they can attempt to get over on there clients and then verbally threat them!! Long story short after a long face to face heated argument on their practices or lack there of, And threats of going to the Attorney General and BBB. They agreed to hand me my tranny in a box, and let me take the car for $250 vs. the $650 of original labor costs..........I know I know I shouldnt have to pay a dime, But they got me on the fine print!! I guess I had to learn never EVER to trust anyone EVER EVER EVER again and these guys will never get a referral from me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its sad cause I actually went to these guys before for regular servicing, and trusted them!! SHAME ON ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow! What a development! Props for standing up to them! Too bad I wasn't there with you. It would have been NO CHARGE for sure! Have a beer or two, take a few days to calm down and chalk it up to a $250 course in how to avoid black holes in the future. On the positive side, you saved $3250 and there are reputable shops around. Just have to find them. If there's a Lexus or better yet a Toyota dealer you can trust, ask them who they use for tranny work and get an est to finish the job from them. Good luck & let us know how it turns out.

[SRK]

Well you did good. You lifted the rock and exposed those crawling little pieces of crap. They lowered the price to get you out of there, because you actually scared them. Great job.

Now find a reputable place, get the car back together, and enjoy it. You've passed one hurdle already.

And there are still lots of people who can be trusted.

[MidNightGS430]

Thanks guys! Experience is the best teacher. And at least I can move on! The bright side is I can have the tranny and parts inspected since they're already out of the car without the labor costs of removal!!

And your both right there are reputable shops around, I think I might have at least one in mind. All I can do is be very careful, and at least now I know what to look for and possibly avoid. I just cant wait to get her back on the pavement in good working order!! ;)

I'll keep you guys updated on how she turns out!!

[Archie 430]

HEllo,

You said everything worked great and the only problem was a leak.

Fix the leak!

The diagnosis for the leak sounds good, but the metal shavings is the question. It is normal for some fine grey deposit but not shavings. There is a good chance that the metal is from the front pump and the convertor, which caused the leak. I wood just fix the pump, convertor and new gaskets. Put the remaining money in your pocket and have a good holiday!

[sakataj]

i would still report all this to the BBB that way some1 else doesn't have this happen to them. no point in complaining bout bad shops if WE as a community never do nething bout it or them

[MidNightGS430]

HEllo,

You said everything worked great and the only problem was a leak.

Fix the leak!

The diagnosis for the leak sounds good, but the metal shavings is the question. It is normal for some fine grey deposit but not shavings. There is a good chance that the metal is from the front pump and the convertor, which caused the leak. I wood just fix the pump, convertor and new gaskets. Put the remaining money in your pocket and have a good holiday!

Yeah exactly, Well its being handled by another shop. So we'll see how it goes, But again if there "Professionals" they can tell whats damaged by just looking at it! But im going to get two different opinions from reputable shops!! Again im very knowledgeble and from my experience shavings or not the tranny was just fine aside from the leak. I recently had serviced a 95' passat that wouldnt even go into drive or reverse and had erratic shifting, and it had plenty of shavings. After a new filter and fluid....Good as new!! The main thing is getting the shavings out of the pan and clean it out so the shavings dont recirculate through the transmission, Which is what causes the damage.