Concerned My New Es350 Is A Lemon

[Crunge]

My wife and I picked up her new 2009 ES350 on October 30. When she first drove it two days later she heard a loud rattle coming from the passenger door. She took it in and was told this was a known issue with the moon roof. Over the next 3.5 days they removed the headliner, put in some foam, and put it all back together.

Three days later, the noise returned. We took it back and the service manager discovered the problem was in the door, just like we'd told him the first time. They found something loose, tightened it, and sent us on our way an hour later.

A week later and the noise returned. The car is now in the shop for the fifth straight day. The service guys said they took the door panel off, found a broken clip, fixed it, put it all back together... and the noise is still there. They say they're taking it all apart again today.

So here's where we are:

Days owned: 19

Times in shop: 3

Days in shop: 8.5 and counting

Problem still not fixed and no ETA

My concerns are two-fold. First, the car has a problem that has the service guys stumped. Second, they have done some pretty major work and I'm not sure it's been done correctly, since I think I'm hearing far too much road noise on the driver side since their first "repair."

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[mhawkin1]

Hang in there... these are great cars compared to their competition. That said - mine was a nightmare the first couple thousand miles. See my post below and have your dealer call Tom Wood Lexus in Indianapolis if they have questions.

This may not be relevant or related in any way, but I just got my 08 back from the dealer after 16 days.

I thought my rattle was coming ‘from the back’ or ‘from the b-pillar areas.’ Turns out, it was two pieces of metal in the passenger door that were too close together. They sent the car to a body shop and had them spot weld the two pieces of metal together and the rattle is gone.

If you would have told me the rattle was coming from the passenger door I would have laughed in your face – but the rattle is completely gone. They were also a dream to work with – I think I like the service department and experience better than the car!

They said Lexus has had problems with the doors on the ES and the thin metal pieces being too close together.

Apparently rattles can travel from one end of the car to another.

This may not help, but thought I would share.

(Good luck – my rattle was driving me nuts!)

[Crunge]

This may not be relevant or related in any way, but I just got my 08 back from the dealer after 16 days.

I thought my rattle was coming ‘from the back’ or ‘from the b-pillar areas.’ Turns out, it was two pieces of metal in the passenger door that were too close together. They sent the car to a body shop and had them spot weld the two pieces of metal together and the rattle is gone.

If you would have told me the rattle was coming from the passenger door I would have laughed in your face – but the rattle is completely gone. They were also a dream to work with – I think I like the service department and experience better than the car!

They said Lexus has had problems with the doors on the ES and the thin metal pieces being too close together.

Apparently rattles can travel from one end of the car to another.

This may not help, but thought I would share.

(Good luck – my rattle was driving me nuts!)

Thanks for the information. They returned the car to us today; the rattle is gone but they have no clue why, and said it may well come back (and I suspect it will.) If it does I'll have them check this.

[Step Hen]

As this defect doesn't affect safety, it will never be a lemon issue.

Glad to hear they got it fixed. No one likes a new car that rattles!

[Crunge]

As this defect doesn't affect safety, it will never be a lemon issue.

Actually, in my state, the rattle would be enough. One of the criteria is: "The problem must substantially impair the use, value, or safety of the automobile." (from http://ag.ky.gov/civil/consumerprotection/cars/lemon.htm.) The noise was loud enough that we would not have purchased the car had we heard it first.

The good news is that the rattle has not returned (although the dealership says it might) but I have to go back and drive another vehicle because I'm now hearing a lot more road noise than I would expect. My concern is that in all the repair work, something hasn't been reassembled properly.

Based on this experience, I cannot imagine ever buying another Lexus. What a huge disappointment.

[Crunge]

Glad to hear they got it fixed. No one likes a new car that rattles!

As I feared, it is not fixed. The rattle has returned so it's back to the shop for the fourth time. Where's the vaunted Lexus quality I heard about before making the purchase? Very, very frustrating.

[OH_Guy]

Sorry to hear about your problems. I got a 2008 in November; it has 1,500 miles on it now with no problems.

A few cars ago, I had a Mercedes ML320 that I 'shared' with dealer while they were fixing things. I best response I got was from sending faxes to the dealer manager listing all my problems and making it clear that if they didn't fix the car then I'd discuss it MBUSA. I know Lexus dealers hate to get bad reports from their customers so maybe you need to share your fustrations with someone other than the service people.

Good Luck

[Crunge]

Unbelievable...

The car is now on its 8th day in the shop on this, it's fourth visit. Yesterday morning they said they thought they might know what the problem was and would let me know in the afternoon... no word. And oh, they say they have ruled out the spot weld issue mentioned above.

On 2 January 2009 I contacted Lexus via their customer support site. They emailed back on 5 January 2009 and said they needed additional information and someone would contact me in 3-5 business days. I sent the information back to Lexus the same day. After 5 business days no one contacted me. I emailed asking why. Another business day passed with no response. I called this morning and they claim they never got my emails, even though they confirmed I was sending it to the right address.

Hopefully Lexus will get involved and make sure this finally gets resolved.

[Randy&Bonnie]

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[AZ08LexusES]

Randy, here we go again! So on this forum less than 1% of the Lexus vehicle owners are represented. And a small percentage of those joined especially because they have issues. A forum like this asks for, as you put it, "complaint" type posts. Not many people join a forum like this because they want to anounce to the world how great their vehicle is. I for one joined in order to be aware of potential issues and share ideas on things about my vehicle. I love my vehicle and am very happy with Lexus. By now I would have thought you would have already sold your IS and bought something else that is also less than perfect.

One thing you will find is how easy you will sell because of the reputation for the high quality. Are there a lot of 2006 ISs for sale in your area?

[Randy&Bonnie]

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[AZ08LexusES]

My point about the people who belong to this forum is that it is not your typical Lexus driver. A good number of members on this forum have joined because they have some type of issue. If you take a sampling of typical Lexus owners you will get a much lower percentage of people complaining about issues with their vehicles than you get on this forum, because as I said before, many people who join this forum join because they have issues. A very small percentage join this forum to say how great their experience is, which is not representative of an unbiased sample.

Your examples of the restaurant in Cabo and the contracting AIDS, or because you went the restaurant you ended up going to the hospital and contracting AIDS, are extreme and do not strengthen your point. You know when you go to a restaurant that you risk getting food poisoning whether the restaurant is good or bad (there's probably less cases per capita of people getting food poisoning at McDonald's than at your favorite 5-star restaurant in Phoenix). You also know that there may be that one time that you may not have gotten the great service you expected. Whether you go back or not is your prerogative. Now, after you got your food poisoning and/or after you got your poor service you went to a web site where people talk about their experiences at different restaurants and discussed your problems with the restaurant. What are the chances that the guy two tables away that did not eat the fish and had a great server will be going to the same site and discussing about his experience? No chance. So the comments on that site are skewed to the negative. Normally people voice their bad experiences, hardly their good or great ones. How many posts do you see saying, "I took my Lexus in for an oil change and they treated me nicely and did everything I asked for!" The reason is not because it didn't happen, it's because it is not worth writing about. On the other hand, have you ever seen, "The Lexus technician told me that they couldn't reproduce the problem?" Now honestly, which of the two do you think may have happened more frequently? The first statement is the norm and the second the exception, I guarantee it.

I understand that your vehicle did not meet your expectations, and the dealership was less than cooperative. But your experience is in the very small minority. It is not to be overlooked or ignored, but considered with the understanding of the fact that it is not the typical experience.

For you on the other hand, it is 100% of your experience that counts for you. It is not OK and you need to decide what you will do next with the understanding that your next car, whichever brand that may be, runs probably a greater risk of having quality issues than Lexus as supported by all the studies about quality in vehicles. It does not mean that there will be quality issues, but that there is a risk of it. And, if your next vehicle happens to not have any quality issues you will believe that the new brand has better quality than Lexus despite what all the numbers may say.

[Randy&Bonnie]

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[AZ08LexusES]

Yes Randy, we are not typical Lexus owners. We spend a lot of our time learning and understanding our vehicles (such as on this site) more than 99% of Lexus owners. That makes us atypical owners. We know and research more than most.

Unfortunately perception cannot be quantified or we would not be having this argument, -er discussion. And, as you said, complaints outnumber raves, especially on a forum like this one.

[LexPaul]

This may sound silly...but I have a 2009 ES that is under a month old less than 300 miles. Friday while driving I too heard a rattle sound coming from the passenger side. I couldn't believe it!!. This car still has the 'new smell' and all.....and I'm getting rattles already?? I was thinking that maybe the unusally cold weather here in GA may have done something to the seats. Anyway this morning I got in the car sat down and shook the passenger side seat a little. Sure enough I heard the rattle. I went and sat in the drivers side seat and found to my amazment that the culprit was the seat belt hitting against the seat!!.... I moved the seat belt around so it wouldn't strike the seat and Walla!!. Problem solved....

[Randy&Bonnie]

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[Randy&Bonnie]

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[AZ08LexusES]

Thanks, I look here and see so many more recalls from other manufacturers...

http://www.lemonauto.com/complaints/default.htm

And then I look here and see that the last recall for the ES was in 2007 and the only one on this model... BTW- people are in this part of the forum because we primarily drive ESs, maybe the ES owners do not understand the IS driver's plight!

http://www.lemonauto.com/complaints/lexus/lexus_es.htm

Frankly, I was trying to back off, and all you have done was relent. You have proven that Lexus is not defect free, but along with that proved that neither is anybody else by a much larger measure. We are looking at the same thing from different angles and seeing different things. I am tired of the silly argument, I cannot make you happy and you can't convince me that Lexus sucks.

[Crunge]

The car went into the shop for a fourth time. The dealership took it to a body shop where they injected automotive foam into the front passenger door. In total they had it 12.5 days. We got it back and the rattle returned a few days later.

The car went into the shop for a fifth time. The dealership decided the rattle was in the console and replaced it. They had the car either 9 or 10 days. We got it back and the rattle returned the next day.

During the fifth repair, the dealership asked us to contact Lexus and open another case. The dealership says they are out a tremendous amount of money and said that Lexus must step up and "make it right." I'll be curious to see what they say.

(BTW, in regards to other comments... I'm not out to blast Lexus. My father has a 12+ year old ES300 and has never had a single issue. Any car company can make a lemon and I understand that. I just want my problem fixed and so far I've had no luck.)