I Hate Mechanics

[LexSC400328]

so following up on my engine sputtering and cutting out and losing power dramaically...the mechanics originally suggested that a simple tune up was needed...so i got the tune up (180 $) then i hop in the car and the engine is still dieing and cutting out worse this time though..so i bring it back and they say oh ok it must be an EGR valve...so they hold off on fixing it over the weekend and make me drive it for the next 2 days as it is struggling not to stall...so i bring it back on monday and they test the EGR's and what do you know?! they are working finee! so they lift the car up and they notice that "oh look, a kinked fuel line!" the line coming from the tank to the filter has a bad kink in it and they say its cutting back 80% of the fuel that should be there. so they estimate 110 for the fuel line and a good 3-4 hours labor to install it and now they tell me i need the entire line from the tank to the fuel injectors re-done as well. :angry: :angry:

the guy said "i hope you brought your wallet" when i walked in the door to see what they found....

[zeus87gn]

In the short amount of time I have owned mine, I think the Lexus name means

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

to mechanics and parts stores.

Be gland you only spent $180 on your tune up.

I spent that in parts for my tune up and did it myself.

[lemaylexus]

I went to my mechanic for a small oil/tranny fluid leak and it turned out to be $1600 worth of flywheel and torque converter. Believe me, I feel your pain.

[LexSC400328]

I went to my mechanic for a small oil/tranny fluid leak and it turned out to be $1600 worth of flywheel and torque converter. Believe me, I feel your pain.

thanks everyone i just wanted to express my severe anger at these people who see a 17 year old kid with a lexus coming and they ask how badly they can hose me..anyways i called them up and told them to cancel the order on a fuel line because i was all done with them..i dont believe them that it is a fuel line simply because it was fine one day and bad the next and i know i never bottomed out over anything...i will let you guys know what ends up being the culprit

[zeus87gn]

..i dont believe them that it is a fuel line simply because it was fine one day and bad the next and i know i never bottomed out over anything...i will let you guys know what ends up being the culprit

Don't be too fast to dispute what they say. A kinked fuel line can cause problems.

But, there are other things that can cause these problems.

Did you see the kink with your own eyes? Is it possible to get a pic of it and post it up?

Did you run over anything that may have bumped under the car?

The fuel lines appear (at least to me) to be covered by nothing more than a plastic shield.

I haven't go through the entire fiel system on mine yet (i'm a new owner too) but depending on how the line is designed, it may very well have to be replaced from beginning to end. High pressure FI systems must have proper fuel delivery to operate correctly.

Speaking of fuel, do you know you have good gas in the tank?

From your description, it sounds like they charged you for this tune up and it didn't make any difference.

Have you checked behind them to make sure they actually did the work?

Do you know where the dist caps and rotors are?

A tune up is a logical place to start if you don't know what's wrong. It eliminates a possible problem.

I think you have done the right thing and told them to take a hike.

IF they did the work, this might be a timing issue.

Do you know when (or if) the timing belt has ever been changed? If that belt is old, and stretched enought to jump a tooth (unlikely but possible) the engine will do some stupid stuff.

Have you had any diagnostics run on the system yet?

A diagnostic code could lead you in the right direction.

Forgive the long post, just thinking of other possibilities.

Z

[LexSC400328]

dont apologize for the long post i thoroughly enjoy feedback...ok so to start..i actually was standing at the window while they did my spark plugs and wires so they did do the work...the tune up however did not fix it...then the fuel line was ruled out by a second opinion saying it could not possibly be the fuel kink because i KNOW i never bottomed out recently...now as of today the TRAC and check engine light both came on..(which i was actually happy about since now it can be traced) so i take it to autozone and they say they cant scan it because it needs a lexus scanner..so i take it to lexus and they want to charge me 110 dollars to SCAN IT!!! lucky enough for me a mechanic took it in for free and said that price is outrageous for a 17 year old kid to pay and plus he could tell it was hardly driveable...anyways it turns out its a MASS AIR FLOW SENSOR!

so i had every right to tell those people to screw and it turns out they had no idea what they were talking about!

so in my own driveway i got some MAF cleaner and sprayed it down and put it all back together and engine stumbling nearly STOPPED..but the check engine lights still wont go away

i figure i have no choice but to purchase a new sensor from ebay so i just bought one 5 minutes ago and i can finally rest in peace about this!

[zeus87gn]

...anyways it turns out its a MASS AIR FLOW SENSOR!

Interesting story how you found out the problem.

Be glad that there was a fellow there that was nice enough to help you out.

You need to remember him in the future cause you owe him one.

Send him some business.....or something.

Also interesting finding out the diagnosis.

If I may ask...now that the stumbing is almost stopped...

1 - what happens when you let the engine idle in park? Does it idle Ok? Like normal?

2 - If so, what reaction do you notice in the engine if you were to tap on the MAF sensor? Does it make the engine stumble?

My curiousity is killing me.

[LexSC400328]

let me first say i took out a 20 dollar bill and told the guy to take it as a tip and he wouldnt do it...so atleast i tried but i will see what i can do in the future for business there...

anyways...when i first got home from the dealership, i bought some MAF cleaner and took apart the intake. i thouroughly sprayed the sensor and put the stock air box back in and took out my K&N filter system. when i started it back up, it was PERFECT...idled FINE, accelerated nice and smoooth..no stumbling...then as i pulled back into my driveway, the TRAC OFF and CEL both pop on and the stumbling starts again just as bad as before...so my guess is that the sensor was on its way out the last week, and finally died the other day causing the lights to pop on..and my cleaning temporarily revived it for 20 minutes but its just as bad as before (it actually stalled this morning) so i bought a MAF on ebay for 115$ used supposedly in "very good working order" i ordered it priority mail so it should be here soon enough...i had to use my moms camry to deliver pizza tonight cause my beloved SC is just too sick right now to handle 5 hours of delivering... :cries:

i cant wait to get my sensor IN and working fine...howevvvvvvver! my mechanic is skeptical about this...he is scared that something else that is wrong may have caused the MAF to fail as well..any ideas what that could be about? i guess the only way to tell is to wait for my sensor to get here and put it in there and see what she does...

by the way thank you very much for all your input i appreciate it VERY MUCH

[zeus87gn]

Yea, you at least tried. Keep that guys number. He will be of help in the future.

You're probably Ok on the used unit from evil-bay. I have purchased used MAF's in the past and not had a problem.

About the issue of something causing this. I suppose it's possible, but I really don't know. Sometimes parts just go bad. Technicaly, the only thing I can think of is bad wiring. If you have a wire shorting out, they yea. That may have caused it. You can check your wiring easy enough. If everything else is Ok, it may just be an isolated dying part. I have seen stranger things happen. Check the condition of your engine and wiring harness grounds (wherever they are). Bad grounds can do strange things....especially in older vehicles.

If you would please, try and take a moment before you change out the MAF and do this tap test that I asked about.

I'm curious to know if the same reaction happens on these vehicles that happens on my Buick.

It could be another way to determine if the MAF is bad without having to use a diagnostic computer.

Thanks for the help.

Z

[LexSC400328]

well i tried your test...and here are the results.

i started the car and it runs good for like 30 seconds before it starts stumbling...so i open the hood and start to TAP the MAF...tapping seemed to have no effect on the engine stumbling since it didnt stop or get any worse...so partly based on my anger at my MAF for failing i began to PUNCH it with a very hard pound about 10-15 times and still no reaction...i dont really know if this is a good or a bad sign haha..but yeah apparently express mail isnt EXPRESS enough

[LexSC400328]

so today i got my Ebay MAF in the mail and i put it on as quick as i could and i started it up and my car ran like absolute poooooooop..(worse than my current one)

i love my luck..so i sent the guy an email demanding a refund and he hasnt responded yet...= /

[zeus87gn]

Well, thanks for trying that tap test anyway. I was hoping for a neat trick, but I guess not.

Hate that your replacement isnt' any good either.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you on a refund.

Some people are adamant about "ALL SALES ARE FINAL", some aren't.

It would be interesting to find out if you knew someone that could hook it up to thier car (knowing thier MAF is good) and see what happens. It could point you in another direction. In other words, eliminate any chance that that replacement MAF is indeed bad. Just a thought if you could pull it off.

[LexSC400328]

so how about this...if i disconnect my MAF the car runs beautiful...once i plug it back in it runs terrible again..i think this is a clear cut case of MAF being completely shot lol

[zeus87gn]

Now that's funny right there.......

[twodmax]

My problem was Idle control valve. $700 including install-OUCH. They also want to clean injectors $150, is that reasonable?

[dawhorl]

i was trying to change my fuel filter and it seems that if you wait to long the fuel line will stick to the filter and will kink from the force the trying to remove the filter.

so i am gonna cut it and put a rubber line where the filter was and relocate it to the firewall.

with an new filter from a 240sx so i can use rubber line instead of metal.

easier to change also. my only worry is heat

[lenore]

the idle control valve probably needs cleaning. I know on the RX300 cleaning it has fixed a lot of folks problems. here is what it looks like on the RX may be similiar on your car.

http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...c=30723&hl=

here is is on the SC

http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...showtopic=30723

[LexSC400328]

hmm. that may be a possibility. here is the current situation though in regards to this. I ordered a second MAF from evil-bay hoping it would work better. which it has! the check engine lights went completely off and haven't returned. however...the stumbling occurs every now and then after it goes a while without fuel injector cleaner. it must be Techron fuel cleaner as well because if its not, the stumbling won't go away. however after a dose of fuel cleaner, it runs like its brand new. then after the cleaner burns off as in a tank of gas, it stumbles again. weird i know. so for months now i've just been adding techron and enjoying perfect driving until it stumbles again.

also, i can tell when its time to add more fuel cleaner because it runs VERY RICH. you can feeel the engine bogging down when accelerating. its obvious that there is way too much fuel being dumped into the engine just by how it boggs down. so after a dosage of fuel system cleaner all is perfect for 2 weeks.

[cardona6569]

Clean that idle control valve and clean your Throtle body, replace your fuel filter if you have not done it in years and put some gas dryer in your gas tank. I believe also that you need to clean your K & N air filter, if all of this fails you need to take it to the best mechanic you can find. Do not worry about the trac lights if you fix the problem in a mater of days they will go away on their own. CCF

hmm. that may be a possibility. here is the current situation though in regards to this. I ordered a second MAF from evil-bay hoping it would work better. which it has! the check engine lights went completely off and haven't returned. however...the stumbling occurs every now and then after it goes a while without fuel injector cleaner. it must be Techron fuel cleaner as well because if its not, the stumbling won't go away. however after a dose of fuel cleaner, it runs like its brand new. then after the cleaner burns off as in a tank of gas, it stumbles again. weird i know. so for months now i've just been adding techron and enjoying perfect driving until it stumbles again.

also, i can tell when its time to add more fuel cleaner because it runs VERY RICH. you can feeel the engine bogging down when accelerating. its obvious that there is way too much fuel being dumped into the engine just by how it boggs down. so after a dosage of fuel system cleaner all is perfect for 2 weeks.

[RANDY P]

Going back to the OP, I'd be *BLEEP*ed they made you spend $180 and didn't even bother to check to see if the problem went away.

2nd - a "kinked" fuel line? How is that even possible unless the car was rolled or crashed? The mechanics are FOS. I'd also demand a refund on the labor for the last job- if they didn't even bother to check to see if it's fixed it's because they knew it was gonna come back anyhow.

Don't pay for a bad diagnosis.

Frankly, I'd tell them you're out of money and want to tow it away. Shops are in the habit of creating false problems to fix. Tell them you are "flat broke" and can't afford the quote so you'll just have to stumble the car out of there.

I'll be willing to bet they'll magically "fix it" for a lot less.

Also to the guy with the bad IAC valve? $700? Hell no. Also, Hell no on the injector cleaning, you won't see a difference.

It's like 2-3 screws to remove, and replace., and like no time to remove and reinstall. You are getting screwed, and screwed bigtime. Even if the part itself was $600 (it's not) it's still huge labor...

Here's a "How to"- You can do this on the way to work, it's that quick to do- definitely not worth $700

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/performanc...trol-valve.html

Start telling the service writers you're broke, and tell them the car will have to wait. Amazing how much you'll save doing that.

These stories are the EXACT reasons I learned to work on my own stuff. No issues like this, ever.

Hate dishonest mechanics...

rjp

[LexSC400328]

hey man thanks a lot. i'll definetly have to give that a try if i have any more BS with mechanics. i too have started learning to do all my own maintenance on my car. its fun and it costs me nothing.

i'll let you know when i clean out the throttle body and idle air control valve and hope for a difference.

if i brought it in for servicing to have that done im sure they would say i actually have 7 pistons shot through the block and the only reason it runs is from one. guarentee something BS along those lines when they see an 18 year old kid with a lexus.

[RANDY P]

It's funny that the SA's are typically good liars but terrible salespeople. One hard objection and they just start discounting. Just need to put them on the spot with a challenge. The times I've gone to the dealer they always tell me I need something for my car that simply isn't so.

Not all shops are like this, but face it, they scare people who don't know into paying for things that aren't harmful, but definitely not needed, or just overcharging for what is needed.

These quotes posted above are absurd. even at a legitimate $200 /HR it's absurd.

rjp

[RANDY P]

hmm. that may be a possibility. here is the current situation though in regards to this. I ordered a second MAF from evil-bay hoping it would work better. which it has! the check engine lights went completely off and haven't returned. however...the stumbling occurs every now and then after it goes a while without fuel injector cleaner. it must be Techron fuel cleaner as well because if its not, the stumbling won't go away. however after a dose of fuel cleaner, it runs like its brand new. then after the cleaner burns off as in a tank of gas, it stumbles again. weird i know. so for months now i've just been adding techron and enjoying perfect driving until it stumbles again.

also, i can tell when its time to add more fuel cleaner because it runs VERY RICH. you can feeel the engine bogging down when accelerating. its obvious that there is way too much fuel being dumped into the engine just by how it boggs down. so after a dosage of fuel system cleaner all is perfect for 2 weeks.

Next time, check out www.cskauto.com Shucks / Checker / Kragen auto parts online. Under $70 and warranted to work. I know this because I was surfing around for the GF's VW (which just puked the MAF sensor- fine, fine autos those VW's - (NOT!) ) and just checked out pricing for our cars.

Also, what are you using for fuel? - the fact it seems to run better with this in the tank would probably indicate it's sensitive to octane, if anything. Maybe a defective knock sensor or slow O2 sensor? Could even be carbon buildup causing octane sensitivity. Also, does the car start OK cold?

Excessive amounts of Techron between oil changes isn't a good thing..Gotta be something else in there.

[RANDY P]

One other thing about fuel filters -

The reason the factory doesn't have a change interval is that modern cars (plastic tanks and lined tanks) don't have issues with rust and scale buildup like they used to.

Unless you know you took in contamination or habitually run the car around on empty it probably isn't needed to change the filter, or at least for a long time. These cars are horrible since they are located in the elements, why mess with it unless you need to?

rjp

[LexSC400328]

first off thank you very much for all your thoughts. now, never once have i put anything less than premium fuel in the tank.

the fuel filter is old. most likely the original one from 93' and since i've owned the car never once have i drove around NEAR empty. the problem is that the fuel line area around the filter where the nuts are looks totally corroded so i feel like i would snap the fuel line if i try to change it... = /

another thing. my fuel injectors. they tick tick tick tick tick and have ever since i got the car. this makes me think they are dirty which could be a problem but im not sure. the car runs BEAUTIFUL with techron in the system but the ticking doesn't subside. anyways, every time the fuel cleaner additive runs out, say with the usage of a full tank of gas, it starts stumbling and knocking a little bit and misfiring. it also runs rich, i can tell from how bogged down the engine is and the popping and stumbling sound from the exhaust. what is so weird is as soon as i add a bottle of techron fuel cleaner to the tank, the results are instantaneous. perfection in one bottle.....= /