'03 Rx300 Transmission Fluid Flush

[wwest]

It should be obvious to all that Toyota's transaxle design is currently, constantly changing, in a state of "flux", since the initial design flaw, mistake, was embedded late in the last century. But, additionally, the frictional material for the torque converter lock-up clutch has been changed throughout the industry just within the last few years. Beyond that time the lockup clutch was only used in top gear and under low engine torque conditions to facilitate an actual OD gear ratio. Nowadays it is being used to (marginally) improve FE in maybe all the top gears of a 6-speed transaxle, 4th, 5th, and 6th.

Who better to know the proper formulation for the ATF for a given car model other than the OEM designers of the transaxle....??

Just becuase they design a AT does not mean they know anything on fluid. They still push oil drains that are 10+ years old..BONG...Toyota does not make fluids. They buy them and rebadge them.

I do not put much faith in mfg on fluids or anything. They write manuals that bean counters write, not engineers.

YMMV, but if you think Toyota fluid is great, that is wonderful. I would tell anyone to test it compared to Amsoil or any other "top tier" fluids. Look at what gives you more, it an't toyo.

Lastly, if toyo fluid was so good why did my car shifter smoother etc with a non-toyo fluid?

hmmm.. "why did my car shift(er) smoother..."

Maybe because the non-toyo fluid allowed the clutches to slip (and WEAR) a bit more tha Toyota intended..??

PLus warranty is a non issue. Not going into it for like the 1,000,000,000 time.

If you like toyo sold fluid, keep using it. I will use other since Toyo quality it not what it once was.

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[mburnickas]

because you are getting more.

Getting more WHAT? Other than your claims and the ads that Amsoil puts out, what tangible evidence is there that Amsoil gives "more", whatever more is. If Toyota has a specification out for a fluid, and you buy any ATF that meets that spec, then how is Amsoil giving "more"?

I go for frequent fluid changes and checking of levels and color. I buy my ATF from the local Toyota dealer and I suspect that he is cheaper than an Amsoil dealer.

Gary

no going into it (have 1000 times before) but if people did UOA on the two, it is clear which has more good stuff. Same goes for color. Even a blotter test has more validity then color..

[Grumpa72]

no going into it (have 1000 times before) but if people did UOA on the two, it is clear which has more good stuff. Same goes for color. Even a blotter test has more validity then color..

UOA? What is that? Again, care to define "more good stuff"? This is a pretty ambiguous statement.

[Randy&Bonnie]

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[mburnickas]

no going into it (have 1000 times before) but if people did UOA on the two, it is clear which has more good stuff. Same goes for color. Even a blotter test has more validity then color..

UOA? What is that? Again, care to define "more good stuff"? This is a pretty ambiguous statement.

If you are asking what UOA means and then what me to define other areas. In your shoes, keeping using toyo fluid...Ambiguous is not the case since I know the diff between the too fluids

[mburnickas]

I think Amsoil is probably a good product, but it's value is over-rated. It's cost/performance ratio is weak. There are millions of cars and trucks that don't use Amsoil and they are running and wearing just fine. Statistically, engine component failures due to "oil property" issues is almost non-existent. Engine component failures, like main bearings, rods, pistons, cylinders, rings, valves, rockers, etc have more to do with neglect, lack of periodic preventative maintenance, abuse, and over-heating.

Going back in time, say 30 years - 60's and 70's, when we could still buy leaded fuels and car engines were for less advanced in terms of metallurgy and alloys, and manufacturing quality controls, an oil additive like Amsoil might have played a bigger factor in lubrication.

With that said, there are after-market lubricants that DO have some advantages in their formulations that can provide benefits over a "standard" lubricant. For example, when I switched from standard Castrol GL-75-90 transmission oil for my Toyota 5-speed truck to Redline MTL, the difference in shifting was VERY noticeable.

Regarding the IS250 and the Lexus "luxury" vehicles, from everything I've read and researched recently, I would DEFINITELY stick to the manufacturer's specified fluid or oil. This is backed up by any number of reputable independent auto repair shops.

That's just my worthless opinion.

I disagree bigtime since you are fishing here. You say "probably a good product, but it's value is over-rated. It's cost/performance ratio is weak." You are guessing and then you define it is "over-rated"...compared to what? Then you state "an oil additive like Amsoil.."Um, do you know what Amsoil is?????

As I stated many times before, manuals most time have zero to even do with designs in mind.

All the end users needs to know is if the fluids passes the proper ASTM, SAE or fluid type needed. But I know nothing on oils..LOL

[tmastres]

no going into it (have 1000 times before) but if people did UOA on the two, it is clear which has more good stuff. Same goes for color. Even a blotter test has more validity then color..

UOA? What is that? Again, care to define "more good stuff"? This is a pretty ambiguous statement.

In case you were serious I believe UAO is Uniform Oil Analysis,or something like that. You can send a sample of your oil into a lab and they tell you all the stuff thats dissolved and suspended in it.

Also, while I understand the premise, I do disagree about color and smell, those a pretty fair detectors to many transmission maladies. Clear red fluid certainly doesn't guarantee "no problems" but it if you've got burnt smelling dark brown fluid you don't need a UAO to tell you that you've got an issue.

[mikey00]

UOA is a new one on me too. I am very familiar with oil analysis but am not sure what the "U" stands for. Even google comes up empty. I think it may be a term the Amsoil dealers use in their marketing training.

[mburnickas]

In case you were serious I believe UAO is Uniform Oil Analysis,or something like that. You can send a sample of your oil into a lab and they tell you all the stuff thats dissolved and suspended in it.

Also, while I understand the premise, I do disagree about color and smell, those a pretty fair detectors to many transmission maladies. Clear red fluid certainly doesn't guarantee "no problems" but it if you've got burnt smelling dark brown fluid you don't need a UAO to tell you that you've got an issue.

UAO is not what you stated and I do not know what "pretty fair detectors" means. Just because a color is black and smells something does not mean anything. You are guessing since you are not a spectro analysis machine... Spend the $20 and SEE (no nose test here folks) what you are dealing with in you AT.

[mburnickas]

UOA is a new one on me too. I am very familiar with oil analysis but am not sure what the "U" stands for. Even google comes up empty. I think it may be a term the Amsoil dealers use in their marketing training.

Boy, some posts here are getting more and more comical. How can you be "very familiar with oil analysis " but do not know what the "U' is for? They are intergral to eachother.....The term UOA is about 30+ years old and has zero, that is ZERO to do with any product type in question. <shacking head> Case in point, I never said any product was the best here. OEM fluid is overpriced for what you get; just like most OEM fluids.

[lenore]

When the nose says the fluid smells burnt, I can guarantee the fluid has broke down and not doing what it is supposed to do.

[mikey00]

UOA is a new one on me too. I am very familiar with oil analysis but am not sure what the "U" stands for. Even google comes up empty. I think it may be a term the Amsoil dealers use in their marketing training.

Boy, some posts here are getting more and more comical. How can you be "very familiar with oil analysis " but do not know what the "U' is for? They are intergral to eachother.....The term UOA is about 30+ years old and has zero, that is ZERO to do with any product type in question. <shacking head> Case in point, I never said any product was the best here. OEM fluid is overpriced for what you get; just like most OEM fluids.

I can't help but notice, from your posts here and on other threads, that you strongly support all the products sold on the corporate Amsoil website (Amsoil, Foam engine cleaner, Trico wiper blades, etc.) It looks like they have the best of everything. I only say "best" because the products have "more good stuff" and you are "getting more". I wonder if there are open territories in my area. Now I am the one finding this "comical" and have a "<shacking head>", whatever that is.

[Lexusfreak]

USE AMSOIL!

Yes, by all means, and give Lexus a certain/sure reason for voiding your warranty.

Actually it won't.....it meets (and exceeds actually) Toyota Type IV requirements.....your warranty will remain intact without question. B) It's much better stuff than the actual Toyota type IV fluid. ;) Just had it installed in my 05 ES a little over a month ago & used it in my previous 2001 ES.......never had a smoother shifting transmission after using Amsoil ATF.

Never heard of any mechanical breakdowns as a direct result of using Amsoil either.

[mburnickas]

When the nose says the fluid smells burnt, I can guarantee the fluid has broke down and not doing what it is supposed to do.

Sure it is burnt but does that mean, 100% fluid is not doing its job???? Not starting a debate but fluid validity is not 100% based on smell-a-vision. Now your nose knows the XOD/NOX %, TBN levels (in ppm), Ca levels (in ppm), phos levels (in ppm) and so on?

Unless you show some UOA's about burnt fluid, you cannot guarantee anything on this. That is about as useless as going my color..

[mburnickas]

I can't help but notice, from your posts here and on other threads, that you strongly support all the products sold on the corporate Amsoil website (Amsoil, Foam engine cleaner, Trico wiper blades, etc.) It looks like they have the best of everything. I only say "best" because the products have "more good stuff" and you are "getting more". I wonder if there are open territories in my area. Now I am the one finding this "comical" and have a "<shacking head>", whatever that is.

I strongly support some of their products (notice some here) since I have done enough UOA to know it works. Plus I think I am the only one on this very forum that has posted on this subject this indepth. Not being rude just stating a fact. There are nice people here that have there "guru area" in all kinds of areas. Mine is this.

In fact I just got another UOA back a whopping $17,that is Used Oil Analysis for people whom are have no clue on it. I think Redline and LE are very good but there short drains, okay UOA do not support there usage in my cars. Plus LE is overpriced dino oil and I have tried way to many oils in my engines. Most like Mobil but I dislike for past reasons. Not even UOA related there CS is worst ever.

I also tried many on here beloved Seaform, BG products, chemtool Amsoil PF and some others (even distilled water) for intake cleaning. Try all above, please and tell me what works (based on cleaning power). I know what I see on several cars. Not gonna be the seafoam either. I used to think seabomb was great until I tried another product that works 100X better.

Next is I said "more good stuff" since if someone does not know what UOA is, well figure the rest out or use the search function on this forum.

To close, I was a dealer years ago (long before this very forum) and left for various reasons and that is fine. But since you posted "I am very familiar with oil analysis" then you know what I mean when I say ""more good stuff" and you are "getting more". This is clear to whom is familiar in this subject. So please do not accuse me of something.

[mburnickas]

Never heard of any mechanical breakdowns as a direct result of using Amsoil either.

I have heard of (1) years ago and Amsoil did make good on it.

[Lexusfreak]

Never heard of any mechanical breakdowns as a direct result of using Amsoil either.

I have heard of (1) years ago and Amsoil did make good on it.

Oil, tranny fluid Mike?

[mburnickas]

Oil, tranny fluid Mike?

It was engine oil and I think even then, Amsoil's warranty was like nailing jello to the wall. I know Amsoil is not for everyone but if you follow what they give, you will never have issues (even in a sludge engine; oil wise). LOL

UOA aside, when I removed my valve cover 40K miles ago and how good it looked (doing 10K+ drains) that sold me. Nevermind almost 13K drains on a diesel.

Just for the record (for all) and I not here to beat anything down anyones throat. Just been there and done that. I left Amsoil for various reasons and #1 was most dealers have no clue on what they sell. When I see dealers saying flat-out sure, you can go 25K miles on the oil <I shake head>. Nevermind most dealer do not even know what TBN they have ZDDC, etc...

[Randy&Bonnie]

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[mburnickas]

I've seen these Amsoil rants from the Amsoil experts many times on other sites. Used Oil Analysis doesn't mean squat regarding engine life for the average driver. Sure it can tell you what's in the oil. But show me certified test data of what the PPMs levels are for any given metal or other chemicals that are in a typical engine crankcase after 5,000 miles that WILL ruin an engine??? How many microns in size of each of various wear particles in a given engine oil does it take to "ruin" the engine.

There a millions and millions of automobile engines that run 10's of thousands of miles and NEVER have an UOA done, and they are NOT using Amsoil. Having a UOA done on my engine oil is like the guy who comes knocking on my door to sell me a water filtration system. The first thing he does is take a sample my water, drop some chemicals into his vile and says "Oh... look, you got all this crap in your water!!!" So what, I've been drinking this water for 60 years and it hasn't killed me!!!... amazing!

It's going to take a lot more than your large type to convince me that Amsoil is worth the cost.

Problem is the average driver does not know what UOA means or the very reason why you pull them. Heck, the average person does not have a clue. On that note, why would someone pull a UOA and that my friend will be if you know or not. You can say it in (2) words.

But based on your posts I am starting to wonder if you understand this process. I say no since microns in wear is not integral to UOA #'s.

I will say this, please show me a baseline on your engines and maybe, just maybe we can talk more.

Were not you the guy who stated "probably""and weak then does not show data prior to this? I have had run cars over 300K miles on dino oil and ran fine. But what you do not know is the wear#'s, the price on the wallet, leaks, oil issues, time it took etc.

The reason why I run it is to save time and still provide better protection then using other oils (based on my past years of doing UOA's). My complete post is not even about any product. It was using a smell test not a guarantee of anything.

Also the same people came to my door in Texas and I already installed a water filter. The water downsouth sucks my friend. You are drinking it? Wow, water is crap and do a test and see what you are drinking. The stuff in it is crap (based on other states I have lived) and I do not want my family drinking it. But if you like it, you go girl!

I am not selling you a product but either put up your own data or your out of your league. I could careless on what oil people use but when people posts incorrect data…. Plus I am not a dealer of any product and your questions are nothing new. Same issue back in the 80's but people still think or see what they want too.

[Randy&Bonnie]

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[mburnickas]

I have 5 years of college, I majored in Physical Science, and I have a 3-digit IQ. I spent 7 years in the microcrospy field and worked with several failure analysis labs here in the Southwest. I have worked with a $100,000 Leica microscope with a $50,000 camera mounted on it. I understand micron particle analysis. Without MPA and WPA, UOA would be meaningless. At this point, I doubt that my participation, however, with you will help me understand much of anything. ;)

As I stated earlier, Amsoil is probably a good product. It's just not worth $10.00 a quart to me - with or without a UOA test.

Well then, there you go. You know all on the subject even with your "probably " comments or "cost/performance ratio " without data to support etc. Amazing people post without knowing all the facts. One thing I learned on forums is when people push the college and work deal instead of data at hand, it is all over here. The IQ is a new, um "high too.

But you are correct, I doubt your participation would help since it is not related to subject at hand. Please posts UOA on your engine since 99.9% of this forums lacks in this area but their posts show otherwise. YMMV

And you were the guy that posted "an oil additive like Amsoil " and you have what now?. They never made "additives" back then for oil nor ever have! That is the best post of the year so far! LMFAO..

[tmastres]

In case you were serious I believe UAO is Uniform Oil Analysis,or something like that. You can send a sample of your oil into a lab and they tell you all the stuff thats dissolved and suspended in it.

Also, while I understand the premise, I do disagree about color and smell, those a pretty fair detectors to many transmission maladies. Clear red fluid certainly doesn't guarantee "no problems" but it if you've got burnt smelling dark brown fluid you don't need a UAO to tell you that you've got an issue.

UAO is not what you stated and I do not know what "pretty fair detectors" means. Just because a color is black and smells something does not mean anything. You are guessing since you are not a spectro analysis machine... Spend the $20 and SEE (no nose test here folks) what you are dealing with in you AT.

Gosh man, sorry, I got the really important word "used" wrong because it would make perfect sense to do an analysis on "new"oil. And Mike, thanks so much for just spewing snide replies instead actually offering to educate the folks on this forum. You know I've read your replies on numerous posts and I actually respect your opinion but why do you feel the need to act like such and a$$hole!

[mburnickas]

Gosh man, sorry, I got the really important word "used" wrong because it would make perfect sense to do an analysis on "new"oil. And Mike, thanks so much for just spewing snide replies instead actually offering to educate the folks on this forum. You know I've read your replies on numerous posts and I actually respect your opinion but why do you feel the need to act like such and a$$hole!

It is important to do an oil analysis on new oil also. That gives you a relationship (visual etc), non-linear on the oil being used. You do not need this but it would help in some areas of understanding fluids utilized/applications.

I give "snide" replies if you want to call it that, since I have been on this forum long enough and not going to educate folks (been there done that; do a search since these are old Q&A). Not my job and frankly, with the invention of the internet you can learn it faster stepping up-to-the-plate on their end. In fact go to yahoo and type in UOA oil and you get what it defines in about 1.1 seconds. What I find is, well do a search since I have posted it time and time again. To summarize most here will not be doing due to price, understanding or play the "time" game. I just got another one (UOA) back but do not bother posting them.

Look on what the outcome of it is. As noted before, when some resort to pushing the "degree", some fancy dollar amount etc, it is all over and not on track. I am being nice here too just giving short direct answers.

Next, I give answers since so far I have people saying smell-a-vision and color are pretty fair detectors. Define "fair" since I do not know what that means and for the record I have tested black "smelling like crap" fluid and tested fine (not great/new but had life left). Same with engine oils, hyd fluids and gears. Using these are not wrong, if you have endless $$, time and you are one step above guessing; have at it I say with this non-scientific processes. At least use a blotter test (free people, notice free) since it seems UOA price is one factor

I try and stay out of most fluids posts on forums but when people post comments like "an oil additive like Amsoil" what the heck are people posting this flat-out wrong info. I do not even bother with people saying the manual items are needed for warranty.

[Lexusfreak]

It's going to take a lot more than your large type to convince me that Amsoil is worth the cost.

Actually, I get my Amsoil products wholesale (oil, tranny & Ea oil filters).......it's actually cheaper than M1 products off the shelf at Walmart or any autoparts store....and I only do 2 oil changes a year. ;)