krissy Posted January 19, 2008 Posted January 19, 2008 yesterday i was in a car accident, the kid driving the other car swerved from hitting another car, into oncoming traffic in front of me, i hit him head on at about 45 mph it completely smashed the front of my car and the airbags never deployed. Im very grateful i was still able to walk away with minmor bumps and bruises. It just makes no sense to me how all anyone can tell me is that they were not supposed to go off! How hard and at what angle do you have to hit a car before you are protected by airbags?! I no longer feel safe and im going to constantly worried about the safety of my 4 year old daughter as well, in a car that i paid a great deal of money for!! I mean i hit with enough impact the the monitors on my DVD players in the headrests flew down!! but yet NO AIRBAGS?! someone help me understand!
mccldwll Posted January 19, 2008 Posted January 19, 2008 yesterday i was in a car accident, the kid driving the other car swerved from hitting another car, into oncoming traffic in front of me, i hit him head on at about 45 mph it completely smashed the front of my car and the airbags never deployed. Im very grateful i was still able to walk away with minmor bumps and bruises. It just makes no sense to me how all anyone can tell me is that they were not supposed to go off! How hard and at what angle do you have to hit a car before you are protected by airbags?! I no longer feel safe and im going to constantly worried about the safety of my 4 year old daughter as well, in a car that i paid a great deal of money for!! I mean i hit with enough impact the the monitors on my DVD players in the headrests flew down!! but yet NO AIRBAGS?! someone help me understand! Of course they were supposed to deploy. Who told you they weren't? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume you bought this car used, and probably not from Lexus. In all likelihood, it was in an accident at one time where the airbags deployed, and they were either never replaced, or never properly replaced. Another alternative would be a car which had experienced flooding which again either caused deployment, or screwed up the sensors. However, in all cases your warning lights should alert you to airbag issues, unless someone has tampered with them. If, in fact, you didn't buy the car from Lexus, then first talk to Lexus for more info. In either case, you'll end up talking to an attorney, because "something is rotten in Denmark."
SKperformance Posted January 19, 2008 Posted January 19, 2008 Velocity sensors pick up sudden deceleration . If it was not fast enough it does not deploy . If the other car slid under you then it might not. Lots of factors including the facts of the accident and damage are needed to conclude if the airbags would have gone off.
SW03ES Posted January 19, 2008 Posted January 19, 2008 Let me put it this way: If you walked away from the accident okay...you didn't need the airbags. The airbags are controlled by a sophisticated computer that measures forces, yaw, direction, and deceleration and determines whether the airbags are neccisary or not. Airbags themselves are dangerous, they operate with enough force to injure you themselves. Therefore if they're not neccisary they won't go off. A lot of people, like mccldwll, think airbags should always deploy and that is not correct.
mccldwll Posted January 19, 2008 Posted January 19, 2008 SK is correct and should be the priority position. From your "head on" description, I was assuming that mass and velocity of opposing vehicle made collision nearly equivalent to hitting an immovable object, an unwarranted assumption.
mccldwll Posted January 19, 2008 Posted January 19, 2008 Let me put it this way:If you walked away from the accident okay...you didn't need the airbags. The airbags are controlled by a sophisticated computer that measures forces, yaw, direction, and deceleration and determines whether the airbags are neccisary or not. Airbags themselves are dangerous, they operate with enough force to injure you themselves. Therefore if they're not neccisary they won't go off. A lot of people, like mccldwll, think airbags should always deploy and that is not correct. No. I don't believe airbags should always deploy, and agree that sophisticated computers make split second decisions based on sensor feedback. However, it is far from correct that "f you walked away from the accident okay...you didn't need the airbags." Before airbags, many walked away unscathed from high speed collisions which totaled the vehicles. Most well engineered cars CAN protect occupants without deployment, but occupants shouldn't have to rely on that. As far as airbags themselves being dangerous, while that certainly was true with first generation bags, and especially for children, second generation (and now third generation) bags should not be considered dangerous. However, as I already acknowledged in the post above, it's entirely possible that the forces weren't sufficient to require deployment.
gordonw Posted January 19, 2008 Posted January 19, 2008 Another thing to note is that you can't go by the physical damage of the vehicle. It may look like excessive force impacted the vehicle, but todays cars are are better designed with safety features like crumple zones and such that are designed to absorb the impact.
krissy Posted January 19, 2008 Author Posted January 19, 2008 yesterday i was in a car accident, the kid driving the other car swerved from hitting another car, into oncoming traffic in front of me, i hit him head on at about 45 mph it completely smashed the front of my car and the airbags never deployed. Im very grateful i was still able to walk away with minmor bumps and bruises. It just makes no sense to me how all anyone can tell me is that they were not supposed to go off! How hard and at what angle do you have to hit a car before you are protected by airbags?! I no longer feel safe and im going to constantly worried about the safety of my 4 year old daughter as well, in a car that i paid a great deal of money for!! I mean i hit with enough impact the the monitors on my DVD players in the headrests flew down!! but yet NO AIRBAGS?! someone help me understand! Of course they were supposed to deploy. Who told you they weren't? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume you bought this car used, and probably not from Lexus. In all likelihood, it was in an accident at one time where the airbags deployed, and they were either never replaced, or never properly replaced. Another alternative would be a car which had experienced flooding which again either caused deployment, or screwed up the sensors. However, in all cases your warning lights should alert you to airbag issues, unless someone has tampered with them. If, in fact, you didn't buy the car from Lexus, then first talk to Lexus for more info. In either case, you'll end up talking to an attorney, because "something is rotten in Denmark." No the car was bought brand new from the lexus dealership, never been in an accident, no flooding the car WAS in great condition. I understand that in certain circumstances that airbags can be more harmful, but if thats the way im told to look at airbags than why are they considered a safety feature if they can cause me more harm than the accident? It just makes no sense... and the GM at the dealership told me that i should just be happy that i walked away with minor injuries, and that that alone should show me the car did what it was supposed to... and that i should NOT want them to deploy! im not sure at what force i have to head on hit something before my safety features kick in?! this alone makes me not want to own a Lexus!! and i loved my car!
gordonw Posted January 19, 2008 Posted January 19, 2008 There seems to be some confusion. Airbags are not your prmary safety feature. They are a supplement to prevent your impact with the interior such as the steering wheel, dash, or windshield. Your seatbelts are your primary safety feature. As you may or may not be aware, your front seat belts have pretensioners built ino them to help restrain you. They use the air bag sensor to activate, but they can activate independently of the airbag. Another thing is the car is smart enough to know if the passenger seat is occupied. If it is not occupied, the passenger airbag will not deploy.
krissy Posted January 20, 2008 Author Posted January 20, 2008 There seems to be some confusion. Airbags are not your prmary safety feature. They are a supplement to prevent your impact with the interior such as the steering wheel, dash, or windshield. Your seatbelts are your primary safety feature. As you may or may not be aware, your front seat belts have pretensioners built ino them to help restrain you. They use the air bag sensor to activate, but they can activate independently of the airbag. Another thing is the car is smart enough to know if the passenger seat is occupied. If it is not occupied, the passenger airbag will not deploy. There is no confusion... i understand that the seatbelt is my primary safety feature! My head hit the windshield, my shoulder hit the steering wheel and my knee hit the underneath of the dash. And my airbag did not protect me from that. Granted i was not wearing my seatbelt and i am WELL aware of the fact that i shouldve been but isnt that one more reason the airbags should have deployed since my car is SO smart and as you say the airbag sensors work with the seatbelt?!? i no longer feel safe in my car, or any car! And as ive been researching this i found that Lexus/ Toyota have had numerous problems with their airbags failing to open... so much for you get what you pay for!
SW03ES Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 No. I don't believe airbags should always deploy, and agree that sophisticated computers make split second decisions based on sensor feedback. However, it is far from correct that "f you walked away from the accident okay...you didn't need the airbags." Before airbags, many walked away unscathed from high speed collisions which totaled the vehicles. Most well engineered cars CAN protect occupants without deployment, but occupants shouldn't have to rely on that. As far as airbags themselves being dangerous, while that certainly was true with first generation bags, and especially for children, second generation (and now third generation) bags should not be considered dangerous. However, as I already acknowledged in the post above, it's entirely possible that the forces weren't sufficient to require deployment. Second generation airbags still deploy with plenty of force to break bones and cause significant injury. I have NEVER heard of an airbag malfunction on a modern vehicle, especially a Lexus. It is far more likely than not that the airbags were operating properly in this situation. No the car was bought brand new from the lexus dealership, never been in an accident, no flooding the car WAS in great condition. I understand that in certain circumstances that airbags can be more harmful, but if thats the way im told to look at airbags than why are they considered a safety feature if they can cause me more harm than the accident? It just makes no sense... and the GM at the dealership told me that i should just be happy that i walked away with minor injuries, and that that alone should show me the car did what it was supposed to... and that i should NOT want them to deploy! im not sure at what force i have to head on hit something before my safety features kick in?! this alone makes me not want to own a Lexus!! and i loved my car! Krissy, I know you're upset but you're not understanding what we're saying. The safety features are designed so that you don't have to think about what force needs to be present for the bags to deploy. The system makes that determination based on the forces present in any given crash. Your airbags did not deploy, therefore the forces present were not sufficient to cause them to deploy. If the airbags should deploy when they are not neccisary, they could cause you injury instead of saving you from it. It has absolutely nothing to do with the car or it being a Lexus. No need to worry. The car did what it was designed to do, it kept you and your family safe! There is no confusion... i understand that the seatbelt is my primary safety feature! My head hit the windshield, my shoulder hit the steering wheel and my knee hit the underneath of the dash. And my airbag did not protect me from that. Granted i was not wearing my seatbelt and i am WELL aware of the fact that i shouldve been but isnt that one more reason the airbags should have deployed since my car is SO smart and as you say the airbag sensors work with the seatbelt?!? i no longer feel safe in my car, or any car! And as ive been researching this i found that Lexus/ Toyota have had numerous problems with their airbags failing to open... so much for you get what you pay for! AH, the plot thickens! You weren't wearing your seatbelt! The car also takes this into consideration when deciding whether or not to deploy the bags. Without your seat belt the airbags become even more dangerous. The belts are designed to hold you in proper position to be cushioned by the bags. Without the belt... You know the number one way to be safe in your car? Wear your seatbelt. You have absolutely no right to blame the car on your injuries, you caused them by failing to wear your seatbelt. If you don't wear a seatbelt you should be afraid to drive ANY automobile. As for finding data that Toyota/Lexus bags fail to deploy. You'll have to show me that because as long as I've been a Lexus enthusiast and around the Internet, I've never heard of even one case. Do the right, responsible, & intellingent thing for yourself, your family, and your society. Wear your seatbelt.
SW03ES Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 I've been doing some looking. There are posts about airbags not deploying on the internet, but from what I can read they're all stories like yours where the situation seems to be the drivers not understanding that airbags do not always deploy. There are no hard news stories, and no investigations by the NHTSA into any of these matters, be they on Toyotas, Lexuses, or any other marque. Read this article: http://www.raa.net/page.asp?TerID=299 Exerpt: There is a general misconception that airbags provide a soft cushion and will prevent bruising or other minor injuries in low severity crashes - this is incorrect. SRS airbags are designed to reduce peak loads on the head and chest in severe crashes (those where death or long term brain injury are possible). When deploying, the airbag is firm, but it absorbs energy as the gases are released through the vents. While airbags significantly reduce the risk of serious or fatal injury in crashes, there are some risks from the deployment of airbags in low speed crashes. For this reason modern cars use a range of intelligent sensing functions to ensure that a crash is really happening (not just a bump in the road or a minor knock in the car park) and to fire airbags at the best time. This reduces the likelihood of airbags deploying in minor crashes. Modern design and construction methods used in today’s vehicles include progressive crumple zones in the body and frame structure to reduce the rate of deceleration in severe frontal impacts. For this reason, damage sustained by a vehicle in a head on collision may appear quite extensive and the airbags may not have deployed because the crumple zones have absorbed a significant amount of the energy of the impact. In these cases, the airbag sensors have detected that the rate of vehicle deceleration has not been sufficient to require triggering of the airbags. Typically, the driver and or passenger airbags deploy in head-on collisions where the force of the impact is equal to or greater than striking an immovable and non deformable barrier (such as steel or concrete) at a speed of around 18-25 km/h or higher. In offset collisions or in a head-on collision with another vehicle or other deformable and/or movable object, the speed would generally need to be significantly higher than 25 km/h for the airbags to deploy. Airbags designed for frontal impacts usually do not deploy in rear end collisions, side impacts, rollover accidents or in most underride accidents.
SKperformance Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 Simple ! the airbags did not respond because you were not wearing a seat belt . Why? It would have killed you if you were flying through the air unrestrained after impact to then impact the bags. Wear the belt and the airbags will function. Case closed
Grumpa72 Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 Simple ! the airbags did not respond because you were not wearing a seat belt . Why? It would have killed you if you were flying through the air unrestrained after impact to then impact the bags. Wear the belt and the airbags will function. Case closed Sorry, I don't buy the idea that the airbags didn't deploy because of the lack of seat belts. Is there an interconnect where they talk to each other? I have issues with the OP complaining about not feeling safe when the PRIMARY safety feature, the seat belt, wasn't used. As has been suggested, if you aren't wearing seat belts and the bag goes off, you can have some serious secondary injuries. Again, as has been stated, the bags SUPPLEMENT the seat belts, not the other way around. Was your daughter belted in? Many moons ago, I got into a serious accident and wasn't wearing my seat belt. My fiancee and I were both seriously injured, the day before we got married. We are now staunch advocates of seat belts. Now that you have been properly chastised ;) I would ask the repair shop to analyze the air bag system. They will do this anyhow, if they are a reputable shop. All of the good shops in my area have an airbag trained and certified specialist to do this sort of thing. Too many liabilities with repairing a car and not checking the bags.
grouch Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 Food for thought. Most air bag systems have a "dis-arm" function so that when a mechanic is working on the car, the air bag won't deploy. If you've had any work done to the RX it may not have been reset although I would think you would get a indicator warning light.
SW03ES Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 You would get an indicator warning light in that scenario. I also disagree that the airbags would not function at all if the seatbelt were not latched (the passenger side does this, but not the driver). The system does however know whether you are belted or not, and it does use different criteria to judge when and when not to deploy the bag.
gordonw Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 There is no confusion... i understand that the seatbelt is my primary safety feature! My head hit the windshield, my shoulder hit the steering wheel and my knee hit the underneath of the dash. And my airbag did not protect me from that. Granted i was not wearing my seatbelt and i am WELL aware of the fact that i shouldve been but isnt that one more reason the airbags should have deployed since my car is SO smart and as you say the airbag sensors work with the seatbelt?!? i no longer feel safe in my car, or any car! And as ive been researching this i found that Lexus/ Toyota have had numerous problems with their airbags failing to open... so much for you get what you pay for! Reread my prior post and your owners manual. The seatbelt pretensioners use the airbag sensors but can activate INDEPENDENTLY. In simple terms, the belts can activate but not the airbags.
knorrena Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 Read your owners manual; it says that the airbags will not deploy if your seatbelt is not fastened. If you did not have your seatbelt fastened, you should consider yourself lucky to have survived. I would say that the car performed above expectation given that you survived at all. The two devices work in unison and in a stagegate fashion to protect passengers. You should not berate a cars operation when you fail to operate it in a safe manner. Dr. Karl
4.0 LS TECH Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 Sorry, I don't buy the idea that the airbags didn't deploy because of the lack of seat belts. Is there an interconnect where they talk to each other? I have issues with the OP complaining about not feeling safe when the PRIMARY safety feature, the seat belt, wasn't used. As has been suggested, if you aren't wearing seat belts and the bag goes off, you can have some serious secondary injuries. Again, as has been stated, the bags SUPPLEMENT the seat belts, not the other way around. Was your daughter belted in? Many moons ago, I got into a serious accident and wasn't wearing my seat belt. My fiancee and I were both seriously injured, the day before we got married. We are now staunch advocates of seat belts. Now that you have been properly chastised ;) I would ask the repair shop to analyze the air bag system. They will do this anyhow, if they are a reputable shop. All of the good shops in my area have an airbag trained and certified specialist to do this sort of thing. Too many liabilities with repairing a car and not checking the bags. I dont work for lexus, But im a certified chrysler-benz tech. newer cars have a control module and system connected to your seats, seatbelts, and airbags. This is your SRS system, or safty restraint system. All of these items talk to the module and it then tells them what to do based on what they tell it. If your seatbelts are not connected then it will tell the airbags not to deploy. The passenger seats are weight sensitive in most chrysler group vehicles they have to have an item of 50lbs or more for the passenger airbag to deploy. this prevents the passenger airbag from deploying when there is no one in the seat, or if the person/child in the seat is to small. Now i know im not giving specs for lexus, but all the manufactures use prettymuch the same systems, so if lexus is anybetter than a dodge, then i would imagine they would have a control module that would tell the airbags not to deploy when the seat belt is not connected. Listen to SK he knows what he's talkin about. No Seatbelt=No Airbags And if your not wearing your seatbelt, then you obviosly dont care for your own safty to begin with.
wish4_rx350 Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 Krissy, I crashed a 'state of the art car' (not Lexus) and I was wearing my seatbelt. The bags did not deploy and I walked away. As a matter of fact, I'm quite happy the bags didn't deploy. And for that reason I am happy. To infer the car did not function as expected is absurd. It is post like these that turn into a negative for all. The thought police should have hunted you down and taken the car back - regardless of the manufacture :P
Grumpa72 Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 I dont work for lexus, But im a certified chrysler-benz tech. newer cars have a control module and system connected to your seats, seatbelts, and airbags. This is your SRS system, or safty restraint system. All of these items talk to the module and it then tells them what to do based on what they tell it. If your seatbelts are not connected then it will tell the airbags not to deploy. The passenger seats are weight sensitive in most chrysler group vehicles they have to have an item of 50lbs or more for the passenger airbag to deploy. this prevents the passenger airbag from deploying when there is no one in the seat, or if the person/child in the seat is to small.Now i know im not giving specs for lexus, but all the manufactures use prettymuch the same systems, so if lexus is anybetter than a dodge, then i would imagine they would have a control module that would tell the airbags not to deploy when the seat belt is not connected. Ok, good information. I learned something new today. THat is why I asked if there was an interconnect or something that allowed them to talk. I always thought that SRS stood for SUPPLEMENTAL RESTRAINT SYSTEM. Am I wrong on this too?
SW03ES Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 Really?!? I did not know the airbags would not deploy at all if the driver is unbelted, are you sure about that?
SKperformance Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 Air bags do kill without a seat belt, it is a concrete wall when the driver gets to them while still being inflated. Once inflated it can allow to be depressurized on impact by the release cutouts on the back. While the rocket fires to inflate it is very harmful and the srs module cannot tell where you are at the time of inflation so it does not inflate it. Broken noses and burns you hear about are from people who do not have the belts tight while driving. The reason the pretensioners exist is just for that reason which is to correct your seating position not to lessen the impact . the airbag does the rest in tandem. So like i said , no seat belt, no airbag. At least on any gen 2 system after 97 .
4.0 LS TECH Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 Ok, good information. I learned something new today. THat is why I asked if there was an interconnect or something that allowed them to talk. I always thought that SRS stood for SUPPLEMENTAL RESTRAINT SYSTEM. Am I wrong on this too? You could say im right, and your wrong. But you could also say im wrong and your right. Im not to sure which is correct for this anymore. . . In my some of my fivestar certification classes they will refer to the srs as safty restraint system. In some of my Diamler Benz classes they call it a supplemental restraint system. so i think it just depends on what the engineers who design each car at a time, decide to call the module the put in the cars. Really?!? I did not know the airbags would not deploy at all if the driver is unbelted, are you sure about that? Yeah im positive most OBD2 vehicles in the US do it. May vary in other countries.
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