90,000 Mile Service

[neumannu47]

Two independent shops are giving me conflicting recommendations for the tasks to be performed at the 90,000 point, which has arrived for my 2000 RX300. Where can I find an official recommendation?

One shop wants to flush things that the other shop says they would never do. Both shops have done good work for me (with other cars) previously. There is also a $300 cost difference between the two shops. I want to maintain my car properly, but I don't want to waste money.

[tmastres]

Two independent shops are giving me conflicting recommendations for the tasks to be performed at the 90,000 point, which has arrived for my 2000 RX300. Where can I find an official recommendation?

One shop wants to flush things that the other shop says they would never do. Both shops have done good work for me (with other cars) previously. There is also a $300 cost difference between the two shops. I want to maintain my car properly, but I don't want to waste money.

Well? What are they recommending?? The "official" list is in your owners manual. the biggst thing I remember from the 90k is the timing belt (and of course, then the water pump). The res of the stuffis dependent on when and what you've had done previosly or what you do yourself.

[wwest]

Two independent shops are giving me conflicting recommendations for the tasks to be performed at the 90,000 point, which has arrived for my 2000 RX300. Where can I find an official recommendation?

One shop wants to flush things that the other shop says they would never do. Both shops have done good work for me (with other cars) previously. There is also a $300 cost difference between the two shops. I want to maintain my car properly, but I don't want to waste money.

Personally I would simply change the oil and filters (oil, air, & pollen) and tell both shops to go to HE...............!

Back when "rubber" timing belts were a new "thing" a reasonably conservative suggestion was to change them out at 90,000 miles. Many dealers lined their pockets inordinately by changing them out at 60,000 miles. And just how many water pumps have been changed out needlessly in the last, say, 15 years? Modern day water pump designs are no more prone to failure than the engine itself, so why not simply change out the engine while they're in there.

Water pump failures, traditionally, historically (no current "records"), were the result of the rear bearing seal failing, exposing the single shaft bearing to coolant.

I wouldn't be surprised to find that many dealer's were (perfectly ethically) replacing that rear seal on removed water pumps, painting them, and then selling them as "rebuilt".

[neumannu47]

Personally I would simply change the oil and filters (oil, air, & pollen) and tell both shops to go to HE...............!

Back when "rubber" timing belts were a new "thing" a reasonably conservative suggestion was to change them out at 90,000 miles. Many dealers lined their pockets inordinately by changing them out at 60,000 miles. And just how many water pumps have been changed out needlessly in the last, say, 15 years? Modern day water pump designs are no more prone to failure than the engine itself, so why not simply change out the engine while they're in there.

Water pump failures, traditionally, historically (no current "records"), were the result of the rear bearing seal failing, exposing the single shaft bearing to coolant.

This Lexus is my first one, and I need for it to last a long time. With other makes of cars, I have had timing belts break, and I just put a new water pump on my 1997 Jeep Cherokee with 75,000 miles.

My mechanic warns me that if the timing belt breaks, the engine could be destroyed. (This same thing supposedly happens on Honda because the valves lose sync with the pistons and the wiggle stick pushes through the radiscold. Or something like that.) When I had a Chevrolet, the timing belt broke, and there was no other damage.

I hope others will chime in on this topic. I'd really rather not spend $900 on a "checkup" if the money is wasted. I'm inclined to do the timing belt and the water pump, but as I said, this is my first Lexus. Maybe that's being overly cautious.

[wwest]

Personally I would simply change the oil and filters (oil, air, & pollen) and tell both shops to go to HE...............!

Back when "rubber" timing belts were a new "thing" a reasonably conservative suggestion was to change them out at 90,000 miles. Many dealers lined their pockets inordinately by changing them out at 60,000 miles. And just how many water pumps have been changed out needlessly in the last, say, 15 years? Modern day water pump designs are no more prone to failure than the engine itself, so why not simply change out the engine while they're in there.

Water pump failures, traditionally, historically (no current "records"), were the result of the rear bearing seal failing, exposing the single shaft bearing to coolant.

This Lexus is my first one, and I need for it to last a long time. With other makes of cars, I have had timing belts break, and I just put a new water pump on my 1997 Jeep Cherokee with 75,000 miles.

My mechanic warns me that if the timing belt breaks, the engine could be destroyed. (This same thing supposedly happens on Honda because the valves lose sync with the pistons and the wiggle stick pushes through the radiscold. Or something like that.) When I had a Chevrolet, the timing belt broke, and there was no other damage.

I hope others will chime in on this topic. I'd really rather not spend $900 on a "checkup" if the money is wasted. I'm inclined to do the timing belt and the water pump, but as I said, this is my first Lexus. Maybe that's being overly cautious.

In my realm of influence, brother, friends, employees, and my own 92, there are at least 6 91-92 (one 95) LS400s well over 150,000 miles with the original timing belt and water pump. Only one of those have had alternator problems.

[tmastres]

I believe with the RX 300 engines there won't be any valve damage. There are types of engines that it will damage the valves (such as my Dad's old Passat which snapped a belt at about 93,000 miles and bent the valves all to hell) but even if no damage occurs you'll still be stuck wherever it might break.

I had mine done at about 92-93k, the whole service that included the belt replacement, water pump and a trans flush ran about $800 at my trusted local shop (not Lexus).

No I realize nobody wants to just toss $800 out the window, but for me it was well worht the peace of mind. Hell, I spend more money than that on softball bats in a year and a heck of a lot more on wine, so it wasn't a real major expense. Personally my RX has been very reliable so if you amortize that cost over the vehicle life it isnt very much at all. Just MHO.

[SW03ES]

Find the Lexus service manual that came with the car and have them do the things listed there and only the things listed there. Dealers always try and add crap to the services, if Lexus doesn't say the car needs it, it doesn't need it.

[neumannu47]

Find the Lexus service manual that came with the car and have them do the things listed there and only the things listed there. Dealers always try and add crap to the services, if Lexus doesn't say the car needs it, it doesn't need it.

Yeah, that makes the most sense. Thanks.

[wwest]

Find the Lexus service manual that came with the car and have them do the things listed there and only the things listed there. Dealers always try and add crap to the services, if Lexus doesn't say the car needs it, it doesn't need it.

Yeah, that makes the most sense. Thanks.

This next part is somewhat regretable but...

When you check the car in for service be sure the service writer writes down that you only want the FACTORY RECOMMENDED REQUIRED NON-SEVERE SERVICE items done and only sign the service sheet once that wording is on it.

Some dealer have written up their own recommended service items and most dealers will automatically use the SEVERE, ROUGH service schedule is you don't tell them otherwise. Anything to get deeper into your pockets.

To be fair to these Lexus dealers the vehicles are reliable, in the EXTREME, and being a single marque dealership puts them at odds with being able to operate a service shop profitably.

But don't let them make that YOUR problem.

[tmastres]

if Lexus doesn't say the car needs it, it doesn't need it.

Serious question, does that apply to transmission service too? I don't believe mine mentions any type of transmission service anywhere. Don't want to open that can of worms again and while I don't disagree with your reccomendation I'd say that you needn't treat the owners manual as "Gospel" especially if you're already out of warranty.

I agree that sometimes dealers will try to stick you but your owners manual was written when your car was made, a lot could have changed since then and a lot of things get discoverd about a vehicle line as it goes through its service life.

[wwest]

if Lexus doesn't say the car needs it, it doesn't need it.

Serious question, does that apply to transmission service too? I don't believe mine mentions any type of transmission service anywhere. Don't want to open that can of worms again and while I don't disagree with your reccomendation I'd say that you needn't treat the owners manual as "Gospel" especially if you're already out of warranty.

I agree that sometimes dealers will try to stick you but your owners manual was written when your car was made, a lot could have changed since then and a lot of things get discoverd about a vehicle line as it goes through its service life.

Yes, as with all "general" rules in life there are exceptions.

I was/am lucky in that I always DIY my scheduled maintenance, oil changes, etc. Along with that I always do a thorough inspection and that's how I discovered that my ATF was burned at only 40,000 miles.

But what would you change, do differently, after the warranty period that would/might lead to the early discovery of the engine sludging (which your engine is subject too), the transaxle failures ('99 and '00{??}), or burned ATF..?

Seems to me that if you start down that road.....where do you begin and end..??

[neumannu47]

Okay, so I had the 90K service done by the shop that has done good work for me over the years. There was a communications problem, so they rotated the tires that had just been rotated. But there is a problem. Sometimes when we first start driving the car, it feels like one of the tires has a separated cord or missing weight. Then, after a few minutes the problem disappears. When it gets cold, it does it again. It definitely feels like a tire problem, but I don't know where to look. All of the tires look fine to the untrained eye.

[Free Tibet]

I believe with the RX 300 engines there won't be any valve damage. There are types of engines that it will damage the valves (such as my Dad's old Passat which snapped a belt at about 93,000 miles and bent the valves all to hell) but even if no damage occurs you'll still be stuck wherever it might break.

My understanding of the damage/no damage issue with timing belts is that a timing chain (old school) will bend your valves if it goes while you're on the road, but that a true timing belt will not. Anecdotally, the timing belt in my 1984 300ZX went out on me at 70mph on I-26 and all that happened was the engine shut down, would crank but wouldn't stay cranked, and had to be towed. After everyone told me I was lucky I didn't need the engine replaced, the mechanic told me the story about belts & chains.

FWIW, I just bought a 2000 RX300 w/83k & the local dealer put the 90k service on it for free (to the extent anything is free when you buy a car), so I'm not sweating it. And so far I'm not having any of the rattling, starting or transmission problems. Starting takes 2 turns of the key on cold mornings, but that's about it so far. Otherwise, it runs like a sewing machine & is getting 18mpg in the city with light A/C use (haven't really traveled in it yet).

[newtoncd]

My understanding of the damage/no damage issue with timing belts is that a timing chain (old school) will bend your valves if it goes while you're on the road, but that a true timing belt will not. Anecdotally, the timing belt in my 1984 300ZX went out on me at 70mph on I-26 and all that happened was the engine shut down, would crank but wouldn't stay cranked, and had to be towed. After everyone told me I was lucky I didn't need the engine replaced, the mechanic told me the story about belts & chains.

Are you saying your mechanic said that if you have a timing belt and it breaks, you won't do any damage? If so, ask a VW/Audi driver. Some of the VW/Audi 1.8T engines have had premature timing belt failure and the valves were bent (aka new engine). From the Honda forum I read, a few Honda belts (Accord/Civic) have gone early and they bent valves.

Back to the original poster's question, Gates lists the RX300 as an "interference engine", so I would certainly not put it too far beyond 100K. I think I would call the dealer and ask if it is a free running or interference, that will clear things up.

http://www.gates.com/downloads/download_co...older=brochure)

[tmastres]

FWIW, I just bought a 2000 RX300 w/83k & the local dealer put the 90k service on it for free (to the extent anything is free when you buy a car), so I'm not sweating it. And so far I'm not having any of the rattling, starting or transmission problems. Starting takes 2 turns of the key on cold mornings, but that's about it so far. Otherwise, it runs like a sewing machine & is getting 18mpg in the city with light A/C use (haven't really traveled in it yet).

You may consider doing the maintnance for the IACV described in detail on the forum, it may clear up your "2 key-turn start" I used to get that as well but after I did the IACV service it seemed to clear up. I also had a bit of stumbling at idle when cold, that was the thing that tipped me off to the IACV

[tmastres]

Are you saying your mechanic said that if you have a timing belt and it breaks, you won't do any damage? If so, ask a VW/Audi driver. Some of the VW/Audi 1.8T engines have had premature timing belt failure and the valves were bent (aka new engine). From the Honda forum I read, a few Honda belts (Accord/Civic) have gone early and they bent valves.

Back to the original poster's question, Gates lists the RX300 as an "interference engine", so I would certainly not put it too far beyond 100K. I think I would call the dealer and ask if it is a free running or interference, that will clear things up.

This debate has occurred on this forum a few times over the years, Interference non-interference, I thought I remembered that the consensus last time was the the RX motor (1mzfe) was non-interference but, hey don't take that to the bank. The gates doc. is the most often cited for proof that the motor IS interference and may very well be correct but there were several conflicting opinions.

To me its a moot issue, simply change the damn belt and be done with it (which it looks like he has). Interference or not , if it breaks your'e stuck, why push it.

[sktn77a]

Take it to the bank - it's a non-interference engine - the Gates catalog is wrong. Still, you should be looking at changing the timing belt at 90,000 - 120,000 miles. The failure rate at this mileage is still very low but do you want to be the 0.1% that gets stranded with a broken belt (in the middle of rush hour on the freeway, perhaps)?

[metah24]

90,000k Service:

Oil change

air filter

A.c filter

rotate and balance tires

coolant flush

trans. fluid

rear diff. fluid

pcv valve

wiper inserts

at the dealer where i work they charge around $600 for this vechile

[gp1200x]

FWIW, I just bought a 2000 RX300 w/83k & the local dealer put the 90k service on it for free (to the extent anything is free when you buy a car), so I'm not sweating it. And so far I'm not having any of the rattling, starting or transmission problems. Starting takes 2 turns of the key on cold mornings, but that's about it so far. Otherwise, it runs like a sewing machine & is getting 18mpg in the city with light A/C use (haven't really traveled in it yet).

You may consider doing the maintnance for the IACV described in detail on the forum, it may clear up your "2 key-turn start" I used to get that as well but after I did the IACV service it seemed to clear up. I also had a bit of stumbling at idle when cold, that was the thing that tipped me off to the IACV

Your thumping when the tires are cold is the tires. It does not mean the cords are separated. Some tires simply do not return to their proper shape until they are warmed or rotated for a while.

Toyota can perform the service maintenance work too! Same engine as their Camry. They are usually quite a bit cheaper for a timing belt/pump change. I don't think there is any way Lexus can legally void any warranty issues either. It you have 90K, I would change all the fluids if they have not been done before.

Run nothing but synthetic oil in that engine.