Question About Transmission Flare

[AZ08LexusES]

I'm thinking of buying a 2008 ES 350 and have read the transmission flare discussions on different websites. I wouldn't want to venture a guess as to what the chance is of getting a ES 350 with a flare problem: 0.1%, 1%, 10%, 50%? If the ES 350 has a flare problem, what is the chance of it being a severe problem vs. a minor nuisance: 0.01%, 1%, 10%, 90%? I've read about other problems afflicting the ES 350 such as engine knocks, interior rattling noises, and wind noise. I'm sure the ES 350 has some minor problems too but those are the major ones I can recall. The easy answer for the potential buyer is to cross off Lexus from the list. Why take the chance?

The ES 350 was easily my #1 choice in terms of features and value. I was attracted to the Lexus brand because my impression was that Toyota and Honda generally make the highest-quality under-$40K cars in the world. What would make more sense than buying from Toyota's "luxury" division? Car magazine journalists regularly write about "legendary Lexus quality." Which leads to a contradiction: Why does Toyota have such a stellar quality reputation even though it has had ongoing FWD transaxle problems since 1999? Why can't Toyota figure this out? Shouldn't Toyota thoroughly test pre-production models instead of making its customers responsible for quality assurance? Replaced transmissions, buybacks, amazing.

It's hard to figure out the precise truth and a manufacturer is probably going to avoid transparency in this kind of situation, so I think I should move on to other makes and models. Any suggestions for FWD alternatives to the 2008 ES 350?

Now carma, is this your first time in a forum like this? People many times post their bad experiences here, not the good ones. You have to look very deeply into some of the threads to see positive comments, to find those posts where people actually do like the features. So the transmission problem, do you see a thread that says, "Hey, I was so surprised, my car does not have the transmission flare! Yipee, I got lucky, I got one of the few good ones." Also, the flare was a problem with the 07s, normally problems with TSBs and other manufacturing/assembly issues get corrected when they retool the plant floor in the model year change over. That's why it is a common rule of thumb not to buy a car in its first year of production, let them work the kinks out.

So, I suggest you do your research in other owner forums, and then close your eyes and jump in. Whatever you get, you might get a lemon, but most likely you will not.

[carma350]

Have you thought about the Lexus IS series, test drove one? IS even has R/AWD version.

Not interested in the IS and Infiniti G35 sports sedans because I'm looking for a conservative sedan.

[carma350]

Now carma, is this your first time in a forum like this? People many times post their bad experiences here, not the good ones. You have to look very deeply into some of the threads to see positive comments, to find those posts where people actually do like the features. So the transmission problem, do you see a thread that says, "Hey, I was so surprised, my car does not have the transmission flare! Yipee, I got lucky, I got one of the few good ones." Also, the flare was a problem with the 07s, normally problems with TSBs and other manufacturing/assembly issues get corrected when they retool the plant floor in the model year change over. That's why it is a common rule of thumb not to buy a car in its first year of production, let them work the kinks out.

So, I suggest you do your research in other owner forums, and then close your eyes and jump in. Whatever you get, you might get a lemon, but most likely you will not.

I don't like the first year of a new model either, that's why I'm looking at 2008 ES. The flare may also affect the 2008. I've read at least one post from someone who noticed a flare in the 2008. I narrowed down my list to the ES but because of the quality problems mentioned on the forums, I'm looking again at several other sedans. I'll follow your advice and do research about quality on owner forums for the cars I'm considering. Then I can make a fair comparison. Would a car report from Consumer Reports, Edmunds, or other service provide detailed status about significant quality issues for the ES or other cars? Or do those publications provide only a general quality rating? I hadn't previously researched quality because all of the manufacturers I'm considering have great quality reputations.

I don't fully understand how Toyota can have such a brilliant quality reputation even though some people on the forums say the company has been dogged by FWD transaxle problems dating back to 1999. Either Toyota's quality reputation is a general misperception, the people who talk about the FWD transaxle problems are overstating their case, or the ES transaxle and other issues mentioned on the forums apply to a small minority of ES owners. If either of the latter two are true, then it would help explain why Toyota's reputation is still excellent.

I'm unsure about whether we're talking about a rare "lemon" here. One forum person said that someone buying a 2008 ES would probably experience at least a 200rpm flare issue. (I.e., Toyota still hasn't resolved the problem.) But I don't know how he would know those odds. I doubt anyone outside of Toyota knows whether the flare issue affects 0.1% or 100% of ES's, and who knows (other than Toyota) what the distribution of problem severity is across the ES 350's on the road?

[AZ08LexusES]

The TSIB mentions that it only happens during the first 10 minutes of a cold start between 3rd and 4th gears, and they have diagrams and instructions on replacing parts in the transmission to correct it. Personally, I have not experienced this flare in my 08, if it happens it is not perceptible by me.

When you look at consumer reports, they do have a rating for car issues and when they happen. They use this by number of instances. I took notice of the Lexus over an Infiniti or anything else because of something I saw in CR. The chart showed that Toyota and Honda had much less issues during the first months of ownership than Nissan, Ford, GM, Mercedes or anybody else. Later in the car's life the Nissans normalized and kind of caught up with Toyota and Honda. The others were all above these three. But then CR is now reporting different overall quality in Toyota, lowering a bit. It's the same thing as when I bought my plasma television, the Panasonics were rated as the best buy for quality and price. I go out and bought one and they drop the Pannys to 3rd. Well heck, I already bought mine, and I am extremely happy with it! I look again a few months later and it is back on top of the list. Now the chart I mentioned above was put together with real numbers of cars with issues. The other reports are people trying to score things that they observe, different people score things a little differently. What is the real difference between scoring something an 8 or a 7 out of ten? So I learned to take those reports with a little bit of skepticism. What they see and observe are things that I could never see or feel anyway but it is good to know. Like I said, the ES will have this problem, the G45 will have that problem, the C-class another, and on, and on and on. If you pay too much attention to those things, you will never buy a car.

Test drive the cars, see how they make you feel, see how they look, and how they make you happy. After you decide which car you want, then test drive it before you buy it. Then if it is still good, take the plunge! We would love to have you in the Lexus family and we hope that yours will not disappoint you. BTW - make sure you tour the service department, it may influence your decision as well.

[carma350]

Like I said, the ES will have this problem, the G45 will have that problem, the C-class another, and on, and on and on. If you pay too much attention to those things, you will never buy a car.

Test drive the cars, see how they make you feel, see how they look, and how they make you happy. After you decide which car you want, then test drive it before you buy it. Then if it is still good, take the plunge! We would love to have you in the Lexus family and we hope that yours will not disappoint you. BTW - make sure you tour the service department, it may influence your decision as well.

Thanks for the advice. I should probably consider not only the chance that the ES I get has the flare issue but also the chance that Lexus might resolve the problem within say the next year. You never know.

[Ira d]

Like I said, the ES will have this problem, the G45 will have that problem, the C-class another, and on, and on and on. If you pay too much attention to those things, you will never buy a car.

Test drive the cars, see how they make you feel, see how they look, and how they make you happy. After you decide which car you want, then test drive it before you buy it. Then if it is still good, take the plunge! We would love to have you in the Lexus family and we hope that yours will not disappoint you. BTW - make sure you tour the service department, it may influence your decision as well.

Thanks for the advice. I should probably consider not only the chance that the ES I get has the flare issue but also the chance that Lexus might resolve the problem within say the next year. You never know.

I purchased my 07 ES on the strenght of my 01 Camry other than cheap factory tires the Camry

had no service issues at all, we sold it to a co worker at 85k miles and 18 mo later he is still very

happy with it. But with the ES Toyota kind of dropped the ball and the overall build quality is kind

of lacking, I had no rattels in the 01 Camry and the speakers were solid but not so for the ES

So far the best part of my ES is the eng and trans plenty of power and good mileage and smooth

shifting although it sometimes shifts out of first gear a little too soon i think.

At this point the verdit is still out if I will purchase another Lexus I do know when its time to trade

im going to do a lot research before makeing a purchase. At this point my ES has about 21k miles

but I may be looking to trade before the factory warranty has expired because so far I have to

have the front and rear brakes and one shock replaced under warranty and also the tires which

im out of pocket for.

[SW03ES]

At this point my ES has about 21k miles

but I may be looking to trade before the factory warranty has expired because...also the tires which

im out of pocket for.

This fascinates me because I've heard it a couple times. Why would you trade a car because tires have worn out prematurely when Lexus doesn't even make tires?

[AZ08LexusES]

At this point my ES has about 21k miles

but I may be looking to trade before the factory warranty has expired because...also the tires which

im out of pocket for.

This fascinates me because I've heard it a couple times. Why would you trade a car because tires have worn out prematurely when Lexus doesn't even make tires?

I saw it a couple of times as well, they also don't make the shocks, and brakes are so dependant on how one drives.

To me it sounds more like buyer's remorse, it hurts to spend money on a nicer car to have some nuisances like tires getting worn out. If that is the case, then you should have bought a Camry, and if that is too scarry, maybe a Hyundai. Great looks and quality, they just don't come with the price tag... But beware, they may not come with the gas pressurized shocks, or nice soft brakes, oh, and the tires might wear out too.

[SW03ES]

Funny thing is the Camry and the Hyundai both come with the same tires...

[Ira d]

At this point my ES has about 21k miles

but I may be looking to trade before the factory warranty has expired because...also the tires which

im out of pocket for.

This fascinates me because I've heard it a couple times. Why would you trade a car because tires have worn out prematurely when Lexus doesn't even make tires?

I saw it a couple of times as well, they also don't make the shocks, and brakes are so dependant on how one drives.

To me it sounds more like buyer's remorse, it hurts to spend money on a nicer car to have some nuisances like tires getting worn out. If that is the case, then you should have bought a Camry, and if that is too scarry, maybe a Hyundai. Great looks and quality, they just don't come with the price tag... But beware, they may not come with the gas pressurized shocks, or nice soft brakes, oh, and the tires might wear out too.

You guys missed the point but that ok for one thing it dosent matter who makes the tires and shocks

the point is that Lexus is responsble for their quailty because they choose them for the car, the fact

that they replaced them under warranty lets me know that im talking the brakes and shocks.

However if the parts are going to continue to fail prematurely after the warranty is gone the car

would be to exepensive to own. and by the way we dont drive in a way to cause that much

premature brake wear if we did common sense would tell me all the other cars we drive would

have the same problem.

[SW03ES]

I'm not talking about the brakes and shocks, I'm talking about the tires. Obviously they replaced the brakes and the shock under warranty. The tires however have nothing to do with the manufaturer. The manufacturer chooses a tire that will deliver the ride and drive they're looking for, low rolling resistance for good fuel economy, all in a price thats feasible in bulk. 21k mileage isn't terrible for a tire that size thats got soft rubber delivering the smoothest and quietest ride.

[Ira d]

I'm not talking about the brakes and shocks, I'm talking about the tires. Obviously they replaced the brakes and the shock under warranty. The tires however have nothing to do with the manufaturer. The manufacturer chooses a tire that will deliver the ride and drive they're looking for, low rolling resistance for good fuel economy, all in a price thats feasible in bulk. 21k mileage isn't terrible for a tire that size thats got soft rubber delivering the smoothest and quietest ride.

You are entitled to your opinion but as far as im concearned a car that cost as much as the Lexus

should have better tires I have owned many cars that cost far less that had better tires.

Just wondering do you have a financial stake in Lexus in some way? you seem to really try to

defend them. Im not really bashing Lexus but just stateing the facts as they are, who knows

maybe Lexus will read this and make some improvements. As I said in my previous post my

01 Camry was in some ways a better car than my 07 ES so I know Toyota knows how to do

a better job if they want to, although my 01 Camry tires went at about 20k miles also.But one

thing about the Camry it didnt cost as much and the replacment tires didnt either.

Anyway im going to see how the after market tires do at least if they fail before 40k I can prorate

them out for replacment.

[SW03ES]

The tires that come on the Lexus are perfectly fine tires assuming they're the Michelin MXV4. I spent $600 on a set of them of my own choosing to put on my Lexus, my dad has had 5 sets of them on the two LS' he's had. They come OEM on many, many cars including cars much more expensive than any Lexus. They were OEM on BMW's 7 series, the MB S Class, BMW's X5.

Treadwear is not the only...or even the most important measurement of a tire's quality. My opinion? You won't find a tire that will last 40k and retain the ride and noise characteristics the Lexus is designed for. That comes from TONS of experience buying tires for these cars. I'm thrilled if I get 30k on a set of tires. As for the tires on your Camry not costing as much. Why not? They're exactly the same size tires. The ES uses cheap tires, replacing them is no big deal. Its not like they're $250 a peice 19 inchers. Wanna see short treadlife?

Anyways when you bought the car there was a big sticker "WARNING, LOW PROFILE TIRES MAY EXPERIENCE TREAD LIFE OF LESS THAN 20K MILES". How can you say you're surprised?

Do I have a financial stake in Lexus? Absolutely not. Its true I do defend them when I think people are being unreasonable, but look around at some of my posts. I've RAILED on the ES350 in this forum to the point where people have become quite...tired of reading my opinions. I and others have become tired of the incessant whining of some owners here about stupid things like low treadlife and how they're going to sell their cars because of it (which would be an abhorently stupid thing to do). And I absolutely never hold back my opinion, so get used to that.

I mean there's one guy saying Lexus should step up and fix his failed LCD and his broken window switch on his 17 year old LS400. Thats sheer lunacy.

Even if I did have a financial stake in Lexus, do you really think some postings on an internet forum would have an effect on the value of my holdings? Come on.

I have a lot of experience with these cars and I believe in them. They are excellent cars and when you drive them with 150k on the clock and compare them to other cars at the same mileage the difference is stunning. They've definately had some foibles with the ES350, but I have no reason to believe it will be appreciably different.

[Ira d]

The tires that come on the Lexus are perfectly fine tires assuming they're the Michelin MXV4. I spent $600 on a set of them of my own choosing to put on my Lexus, my dad has had 5 sets of them on the two LS' he's had. They come OEM on many, many cars including cars much more expensive than any Lexus. They were OEM on BMW's 7 series, the MB S Class, BMW's X5.

Treadwear is not the only...or even the most important measurement of a tire's quality. My opinion? You won't find a tire that will last 40k and retain the ride and noise characteristics the Lexus is designed for. That comes from TONS of experience buying tires for these cars. I'm thrilled if I get 30k on a set of tires. As for the tires on your Camry not costing as much. Why not? They're exactly the same size tires. The ES uses cheap tires, replacing them is no big deal. Its not like they're $250 a peice 19 inchers. Wanna see short treadlife?

Anyways when you bought the car there was a big sticker "WARNING, LOW PROFILE TIRES MAY EXPERIENCE TREAD LIFE OF LESS THAN 20K MILES". How can you say you're surprised?

Do I have a financial stake in Lexus? Absolutely not. Its true I do defend them when I think people are being unreasonable, but look around at some of my posts. I've RAILED on the ES350 in this forum to the point where people have become quite...tired of reading my opinions. I and others have become tired of the incessant whining of some owners here about stupid things like low treadlife and how they're going to sell their cars because of it (which would be an abhorently stupid thing to do). And I absolutely never hold back my opinion, so get used to that.

I mean there's one guy saying Lexus should step up and fix his failed LCD and his broken window switch on his 17 year old LS400. Thats sheer lunacy.

Even if I did have a financial stake in Lexus, do you really think some postings on an internet forum would have an effect on the value of my holdings? Come on.

I have a lot of experience with these cars and I believe in them. They are excellent cars and when you drive them with 150k on the clock and compare them to other cars at the same mileage the difference is stunning. They've definately had some foibles with the ES350, but I have no reason to believe it will be appreciably different.

First of I didnt say I was going to trade the car because of the tires that statement was in reference

to the brakes and shocks. Second the ES model did not have the sticker about low tread life when

I bought mine only the IS and maybe the GS had those stickers. Third nothing I have said has been

unreasonble at all. Fourth I know the current tires I have may not last 40k but if they go before 20k

they will be replaced and if after they will prorate, so my out of pocket will be less than last time.

And yes my new tires ride just as good and quiet as the factory ones and will continue to be vocal

about things I dont like as well as things I do. And do I think posting here will effect your holding?

well if you are a dealer are salesman it very well could, I have seen posts right here in this fourm

from people who are holding back purchasing a Lexus because of what they have read here.

[mburnickas]

This thread is amazing..

what if the world ends before your tires do...you are worried about prorating tires here with how many miles????. My god man! Better ask about prorated windshield blades too if you do not get the duration!

Lexus did what they wanted. Just because you whine about tires does not mean the thousands other do. It is personal and as the saying goes, you cannot make everyone happy.

Owning a Lexus is no differant then any other car. If fact, this car is MUCH cheaper to fix then my old truck. Does a Lexus have a $800 starter in it? Or $3,000 injectors????

It seems like you should suck it up and be a man or sell the ES and buy a older 01 Camry that you think is so much better. Maybe buy a sticker for tires since I think you need one..

[SW03ES]

Second the ES model did not have the sticker about low tread life when

I bought mine only the IS and maybe the GS had those stickers.

It should have. The ES' I've seen all have the sticker.

And yes my new tires ride just as good and quiet as the factory ones

Which tires did you replace them with?

well if you are a dealer are salesman it very well could, I have seen posts right here in this fourm

from people who are holding back purchasing a Lexus because of what they have read here.

But if I were but one salesman at one dealership what are the odds that postings here would effect a buyer that I would sell a car to? I would venture to say they would be amazingly remote. 98% of Lexus buyers never even read these forums.

If I were a dealer it would be more likely that my dealership might loose a sale or two since there are fewer dealerships than salespeople total but even still, the difference in profit would be too negligable for me to care about. If I were a dealer and had access to any Lexus car I wanted basically for free do you think I'd be driving a 5 year old ES300?

Do you have a financial stake in some other car company? Me insinuating that makes about as much sense as you insinuating I have a financial stake in Lexus.

For the record, I have absolutely zero financial stake in Lexus or Toyota nor do I work for them. I don't so much as even own a share of Toyota stock.

[AZ08LexusES]

I don't know, it still sounds like buyer's remorse. If an 07 ES is not a better all around car than the 01 Camry, we should all go find these 01 Camrys. I had an 00 Honda Accord Coupe which I LOVED, and the ES is what I got. I feel I have a heavier, sturdier more comfortable car with more features. Nav, Bluetooth, back-up camera are all fetures that I use almost daily. The ride is sweet and I am surrounded by luxury (although there isn't as much wood as in the previous versions of the ES, right SW?). Also, the resale value is still amazing for this car, there is a reason for that. There is no dropped ball when some components from other manufactures may have gone bad or worn quicker than expected in a few cars.

I can't speak for anybody else but myself, I would not trade this car for anything else in the same price range. If you are unhappy with it, sell it and get a Camry, and a used one at that, because the last model is the same as the last ES except with slightly less expensive components like the struts and brake pads and other upgrades that the Lexus has.

[SW03ES]

(although there isn't as much wood as in the previous versions of the ES, right SW?).

LOL. But remember, I'm a product schill for Lexus and I never have anything negative to say ;)

[carma350]

Personally, I have not experienced this flare in my 08, if it happens it is not perceptible by me.

But then CR is now reporting different overall quality in Toyota, lowering a bit.

So I learned to take those reports with a little bit of skepticism. What they see and observe are things that I could never see or feel anyway but it is good to know. Like I said, the ES will have this problem, the G45 will have that problem, the C-class another, and on, and on and on. If you pay too much attention to those things, you will never buy a car.

Test drive the cars, see how they make you feel, see how they look, and how they make you happy. After you decide which car you want, then test drive it before you buy it. Then if it is still good, take the plunge! We would love to have you in the Lexus family and we hope that yours will not disappoint you.

Thanks for the response. I've read other forum posts in which people said they experienced the "flare" (i.e., transmission slip) on the 2008 ES 350. And several people on the forums said the ES transmission slip may not happen during one or two test drives but only after you own it. Prior to coming across the ES forums, I had already narrowed down my list to the 2008 ES 350 - it easily topped the list. But I've concluded from the Lexus forums and Consumer Reports quality ratings downgrades (which backs up what I'm reading on the forums) that it's not worth the gamble on the Lexus ES / Toyota Avalon / Camry V6 and its potentially very dangerous transmission slip. Anyway, good luck with your ES.

[Ira d]

Second the ES model did not have the sticker about low tread life when

I bought mine only the IS and maybe the GS had those stickers.

It should have. The ES' I've seen all have the sticker.

And yes my new tires ride just as good and quiet as the factory ones

Which tires did you replace them with?

well if you are a dealer are salesman it very well could, I have seen posts right here in this fourm

from people who are holding back purchasing a Lexus because of what they have read here.

But if I were but one salesman at one dealership what are the odds that postings here would effect a buyer that I would sell a car to? I would venture to say they would be amazingly remote. 98% of Lexus buyers never even read these forums.

If I were a dealer it would be more likely that my dealership might loose a sale or two since there are fewer dealerships than salespeople total but even still, the difference in profit would be too negligable for me to care about. If I were a dealer and had access to any Lexus car I wanted basically for free do you think I'd be driving a 5 year old ES300?

Do you have a financial stake in some other car company? Me insinuating that makes about as much sense as you insinuating I have a financial stake in Lexus.

For the record, I have absolutely zero financial stake in Lexus or Toyota nor do I work for them. I don't so much as even own a share of Toyota stock.

I never said anything about buyers remorse but I what really dont understand is why

you guys make such a big deal about someone posting their opinion about their car.

If you guys are so in love with your cars then fine I dont have a problem with that

and I will repeat again at the time I purchased my car 18 mo ago no ES car had the

tire wear sticker I ought to know I made many trips to the dealer before the purchase.

If you guys dont agree with the opinion of someone there is no need to try to twist

what they say and make sarcastic remarks.

[SW03ES]

I never twisted what you said or made sarcastic remarks, I simply asked a question about your opinion.

[Ira d]

Second the ES model did not have the sticker about low tread life when

I bought mine only the IS and maybe the GS had those stickers.

It should have. The ES' I've seen all have the sticker.

And yes my new tires ride just as good and quiet as the factory ones

Which tires did you replace them with?

well if you are a dealer are salesman it very well could, I have seen posts right here in this fourm

from people who are holding back purchasing a Lexus because of what they have read here.

But if I were but one salesman at one dealership what are the odds that postings here would effect a buyer that I would sell a car to? I would venture to say they would be amazingly remote. 98% of Lexus buyers never even read these forums.

If I were a dealer it would be more likely that my dealership might loose a sale or two since there are fewer dealerships than salespeople total but even still, the difference in profit would be too negligable for me to care about. If I were a dealer and had access to any Lexus car I wanted basically for free do you think I'd be driving a 5 year old ES300?

Do you have a financial stake in some other car company? Me insinuating that makes about as much sense as you insinuating I have a financial stake in Lexus.

For the record, I have absolutely zero financial stake in Lexus or Toyota nor do I work for them. I don't so much as even own a share of Toyota stock.

Just kind of curious you dont own a car like mine so why are you trying to defend mine so much?

[mburnickas]

I do not own a "defective model" like yours (poking fun here) but we are all riding you like a mule since you are whining about tires, brakes and shocks. So the car has XX miles and something little went already. Big deal that is the auto industry and called quality my friend and nothing is perfect based on SPC rules, Kiazen etc. You got a lucky car with your 01 and you got a non lucky, based on 3 little things and you are flaming Lexus. Gee, if the people who love GM, Ford and Dodge took the same attitude our economy would be flat-lined.

You are posting on tires, my god man. They will not last long. My old car they lasted no more then 20K miles. Suck it up buddy. You paid how much for the car and you are whining about these little things? Then the socks had issues and brakes. Those are so minor it is not funny. I would not even complain since you did not pay #1 and #2 if they do go down the road, it is a cheap fix. But I doubt that it will happen so soon.

PS, based on my world in the vehicle field, the buyer (Lexus) is NOT responsible for quality. Lexus sets up the testing specs and farm it out. There sub contractor(s) are responsible for it; along with testing (durability, FEA etc).

Please give up the damn sticker will ya!!! It is about as good as the sticker on a lawn mower about sticking hands up the deck when running. Do you REALLY need one that bad?

[Ira d]

I do not own a "defective model" like yours (poking fun here) but we are all riding you like a mule since you are whining about tires, brakes and shocks. So the car has XX miles and something little went already. Big deal that is the auto industry and called quality my friend and nothing is perfect based on SPC rules, Kiazen etc. You got a lucky car with your 01 and you got a non lucky, based on 3 little things and you are flaming Lexus. Gee, if the people who love GM, Ford and Dodge took the same attitude our economy would be flat-lined.

You are posting on tires, my god man. They will not last long. My old car they lasted no more then 20K miles. Suck it up buddy. You paid how much for the car and you are whining about these little things? Then the socks had issues and brakes. Those are so minor it is not funny. I would not even complain since you did not pay #1 and #2 if they do go down the road, it is a cheap fix. But I doubt that it will happen so soon.

PS, based on my world in the vehicle field, the buyer (Lexus) is NOT responsible for quality. Lexus sets up the testing specs and farm it out. There sub contractor(s) are responsible for it; along with testing (durability, FEA etc).

Please give up the damn sticker will ya!!! It is about as good as the sticker on a lawn mower about sticking hands up the deck when running. Do you REALLY need one that bad?

I dont know about where you live but in my neck of the woods brake and shock work is not

cheap.I dont have to suck anything up but maybe you need to suck it up farther more its

so child like for grown men to try to berate someone because of their opnion why dont

you treat people the way you would like to be treated.

[AZ08LexusES]

Thanks for the response. I've read other forum posts in which people said they experienced the "flare" (i.e., transmission slip) on the 2008 ES 350. And several people on the forums said the ES transmission slip may not happen during one or two test drives but only after you own it. Prior to coming across the ES forums, I had already narrowed down my list to the 2008 ES 350 - it easily topped the list. But I've concluded from the Lexus forums and Consumer Reports quality ratings downgrades (which backs up what I'm reading on the forums) that it's not worth the gamble on the Lexus ES / Toyota Avalon / Camry V6 and its potentially very dangerous transmission slip. Anyway, good luck with your ES.

Whoa, Carma, I hope you didn't cross off the ES because of what I said! I'll sell you my ES with 5K and take the risk myself with a new one. I know it doesn't happen on mine, and the fact that there is a TSIB on it means that there is a fix for it. And BTW, where did you see that the 08 had the same problem? Also, what I meant about CR was, that if you don't like the review, wait a couple of months, it will change...

Anyway, what are you going to get now?