Pros/cons Of The Rx 400h Line?

[Husker4theSpurs]

Still pondering a decision on the 400h ... whether to order or not. What are some things you've noticed about your 400h that you REALLY like ... others that you REALLY dislike. I'm going to list some just going from what I've read and noticed myself. I'm also going to compare it to the RX 350/330

PROS (things that draw me to purchase):

-- Sedan fuel economy in crossover SUV style

-- Smooth CVT transmission (especially vs my jerky RX 330 tranny)

-- Great insulation and quietness (relative to the RX 330)

-- Reliability of Lexus in general

-- V-8 power to go along with increased fuel economy

CONS (things that hold me back from making a deal):

-- Having to order to get the aluminum trim in the '07s

-- NO "miles till empty" function like on the RX 350/330

-- NO Sirius radio through the factory stereo

-- NO iPod auxillary jack (even the older GX 470 has one now, what gives?)

-- The fact that a new RX model will most likely arrive in 16-18 months

-- Compared to the Lincoln MKX it seems to lack some options (heated rear seats ... much better stereo ... more room at the same size -- for less money, but the Lexus would still easily win on fuel economy). Also the same with the Acura MDX as well (except the MDX is larger).

---------------------------------

Now don't get me wrong ... just b/c I have more cons doesn't mean the pros don't outweigh the cons ... it's just that I already know more of the pros b/c I have an RX 330 and haven't listed all of those. I am sort of hesitant b/c the Lexus is later in its model life than some of the competitors, but then again when you get real-world 26-27 mpg in this style, it's hard to compare it to any other cars.

Two things that are REALLY minor, but seem to really bother me are:

The Satellite Radio option ... even if you want XM right now, it's sort of an add-on through Lexus after the fact. Sirius doesn't seem to be available right now at all. Competitors don't seem to have that problem ...

The Aux line in for an iPod or the like ... this CANNOT be that hard! They managed to do it with the older GX 470, yet haven't done it with the RX line for some reason.

Again I think it comes down to the fact that the RX line is nearing the end of its life cycle. Then I see some of the newer cars coming out where it's not even a second thought to incorporate Satellite radio and the iPod jack. Part of it is ... EVERYONE ELSE has been playing catch up with Lexus in this line and they have to make it up somewhere (pricing, options, etc). Lexus has been and still is the top dog.

Please add as much info as you can possibly think of ... agree/disagree, etc.

THANKS!

[RolandB]

Still pondering a decision on the 400h ... whether to order or not. What are some things you've noticed about your 400h that you REALLY like ... others that you REALLY dislike. I'm going to list some just going from what I've read and noticed myself. I'm also going to compare it to the RX 350/330

PROS (things that draw me to purchase):

-- Sedan fuel economy in crossover SUV style

-- Smooth CVT transmission (especially vs my jerky RX 330 tranny)

-- Great insulation and quietness (relative to the RX 330)

-- Reliability of Lexus in general

-- V-8 power to go along with increased fuel economy

CONS (things that hold me back from making a deal):

-- Having to order to get the aluminum trim in the '07s

-- NO "miles till empty" function like on the RX 350/330

-- NO Sirius radio through the factory stereo

-- NO iPod auxillary jack (even the older GX 470 has one now, what gives?)

-- The fact that a new RX model will most likely arrive in 16-18 months

-- Compared to the Lincoln MKX it seems to lack some options (heated rear seats ... much better stereo ... more room at the same size -- for less money, but the Lexus would still easily win on fuel economy). Also the same with the Acura MDX as well (except the MDX is larger).

---------------------------------

Now don't get me wrong ... just b/c I have more cons doesn't mean the pros don't outweigh the cons ... it's just that I already know more of the pros b/c I have an RX 330 and haven't listed all of those. I am sort of hesitant b/c the Lexus is later in its model life than some of the competitors, but then again when you get real-world 26-27 mpg in this style, it's hard to compare it to any other cars.

Two things that are REALLY minor, but seem to really bother me are:

The Satellite Radio option ... even if you want XM right now, it's sort of an add-on through Lexus after the fact. Sirius doesn't seem to be available right now at all. Competitors don't seem to have that problem ...

The Aux line in for an iPod or the like ... this CANNOT be that hard! They managed to do it with the older GX 470, yet haven't done it with the RX line for some reason.

Again I think it comes down to the fact that the RX line is nearing the end of its life cycle. Then I see some of the newer cars coming out where it's not even a second thought to incorporate Satellite radio and the iPod jack. Part of it is ... EVERYONE ELSE has been playing catch up with Lexus in this line and they have to make it up somewhere (pricing, options, etc). Lexus has been and still is the top dog.

Please add as much info as you can possibly think of ... agree/disagree, etc.

THANKS!

I don't know about the 2007 RX400h but I take issue with the lack of TPS on these wheels. Lexus put expensive high performance tires on it and then didn't include TPS. I had to replace a tire because of this! This happened after the 'usual' (per dealer service manager) tire replacements at 15,000 which really bugged me. So with a new set of tires, my wife didn't realize she had a flat (nice low profile tires) and consequently ruined a new tire with less than 1,500 miles on it! The original tires probably would have been okay had the car been properly aligned at the start!

[katzjamr]

boy do i agree with you roland regarding tire alignment, i do feel i got some premature wear that i didnt catch until 10K that would not be there if everything was aligned correctly from the factory.

As for mr spurs car choices, im not tall but i cant get in and out of an MDX without bumping my knee on the steering column and i dont care for the styling inside or out of the acura, regarding Lincoln, dude i had many fords and my last one is the car that drove me to Lexus i dont trust them for reliability. Yes no sat radio is one of Lexus's biggest errors, and they do have some long term problem with sirius in some of their cars, at least the 2007 can be fitted with the dealer XM, doesnt that give you an mp3 connection too?

Bottom line if you drive a 400h and it doesnt move you right away then i dont think its for you. I liked the steering, ample power and cvt immediately so that nothing else, even an RX 10K cheaper would make me happy. 18,500 miles later im still happy.

[Husker4theSpurs]

Definitely agree with you on the Lincoln/Ford reliability ...

I kind of like the brand new MDX, but then again I haven't driven it.

I REALLY liked the RX400h when I test drove it ... plus after some searching it seems like you can find ways to get Sirius that don't involve any extra add ons besides internally to the back on the radio. Same goes with the iPod potentially.

[Colo Springs RX400h]

Another benefit is super low emissions. The RX400h has a 9.5 EPA pollution rating with 10.0 being the best. The MDX is a 6 or a 7 depending upon the model. Other comparisons: A 2007 Corolla is a 7, and a Mini Cooper is a 2. So the Lexus hybrids are significantly cleaner than even most small cars. In fact, looking at the EPA site for small cars, nothing rates better than a 9.5, so the 400h is rated as clean as the Prius, the Honda Insight, and the natural gas version of the Civic.

You can find the EPA ratings at http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicle/select.htm

Here's my take on the RX400h. I am driving a 4300 pound AWD SUV that has the power and acceleration of a V-8. I have almost every convenience and gadget that can be put into a vehicle (I don't care about Sirius radio and the Ipod connection, however). I'm getting 27 - 28 MPG. I'm driving the quietest vehicle I have ever been in. I love the electronic continuous variable transmission. I am producing significantly less pollution than most small compacts. To my way of thinking, the RX400h has it all. We test drove the 400h, then test drove the 350. After driving the 350, we immediately negotiated for the 400h. The drive is just so much better, to me, I had to have it.

In terms of the aluminum trim, why don't you see if you can find it at any other dealer on the Internet? Taking a trip to pick up what you want may be better than waiting for who knows how long to get it. I have the aluminum trim on a 2006 model and I like it much better than the wood trim also.

Only major con to me is that the 400h is not for use off road, if that is important to you.

Good luck on your decision. If you have any specific questions, I'll try to answer them.

[Husker4theSpurs]

Thanks for all of that input. I agree with you about liking the drive of the 400h that much better. Your point about the 9.5 Pollution index is a great one ... what is it about the car that causes that to be so low? The score seems partially independent of fuel economy.

There are ZERO 2007 400h's out there that are Black w/Black interior and the aluminum trim. There are a couple of 2006s, but I want the upgraded Navigation system with the improved graphics and improved voice recognition.

I've pretty much been informed by everywhere that I've contacted that ordering is my best bet. If I do so soon, I could possibly have one around February or so.

[katzjamr]

right now its cold for seattle in the teens tonite and about freezing during the day, i mention this because my mpg in this rare colder weather here has dropped below 20, there is a big winter penalty for the hybrid

i see you are in nebraska, so i dont know if the cold winter will factor into your decision, and do you need a more capable 4wd with beefier tires?

[Colo Springs RX400h]

Here in Colorado Springs, we had about 4 inches of snow last night. I went the back way to work to see how the 400h performed on slick, hilly roads. Here are my conclusions from this limited trial. First, I had no problems with slipping; however, it didn't seem to be the kind of snow where others were having difficulty either. Second, the rear wheels only kick in when you are starting up or going very slowly up hill. So most of the time, even in the snow, it is a 2 wheel drive vehicle. Third, the ABS brakes seem to pump alternatively left - right - left, etc., and they work with softer pumps than I am used to. I liked the way they worked and they brought me to a safe stop when I did a panic stop (intentionally in a safe area, of course). Fourth, I would say that the 400h is not a sure footed as my other vehicle, an Audi A6. Audi's put 25% of the drive power to each wheel and can transfer power as needed to whichever wheels need it, up to 70% to any one wheel. Audi has been in the AWD businees longer than any of the other manufacturers, and I'm not sure if the RX350 would be any better than the RX400h.

On finding a 400h with the color you want, have you looked at the Flint Mica exterior color with the drak gray interior (it may even be considered black) color. That is what I have; and I would think that if you like Black, you might like the Flint Mica. Flint Mica is a dark grey with green, purple, and silver metallic flakes that show up in the Sun. I like it.

[Husker4theSpurs]

Thanks again all ...

We DEFINITELY have winters here. I know this AWD system in the RX line isn't THAT spectacular or really even as true of an AWD system as some other crossovers & SUVs ... its more passive. My RX 330 has done fine in the snow for me, but it's nothing spectacular ... that being said, I don't get stuck or anything. I think the biggest problem is that the tires are more of a low profile tire without as deep of a tread. They wear out in 20,000-25,000 miles too, but that's another gripe :)

I have the Onyx Black exterior now and like it a lot ... I looked at the Flint Mica, but in the end I felt the Black looked more sporty. The dealer here used to have an '06 RX 400h demo that was black w/black interior and I realy liked how the black interior looked with the aluminum trim. Right now I have the light gray interior with the dark maple wood and would just rather not have wood trim.

I'm not AS old as the demographic for the RX generally (I'm 31), so maybe i was a little paranoid about looking like I'm driving a "grocery getter" :) That's partially why I went with the Onyx Black.

Point being, even though the aluminum trim is standard on the 2007 RX 400h you CANNOT find it out there unless it's in a leftover 2006 model. Makes sense though b/c cloth seats are standard in the RX as well and GOOD LUCK finding any of those. Sometimes the way Lexus sends out its cars bothers me ... it's almost like you DON'T HAVE AN OPTION at all as to what options you get. They started sending the 400h out with wood in the late 2006s b/c a lot of people were complaining about it. Personally I think more of the complaint would've been with how the aluminum trim looked with the tan (especially) and light gray interiors. Something just doesn't look right in those interior colors imho.

Enough rambling ... I'm probably going to special order. The RX line sure is pricy compared to other cars ... especially when I start thinking about the passive AWD and other options I could get on another car for cheaper. The RX is way below the BMW X-5 and MERCEDES in price though ...

[Robl45]

Biggest con for me so far is the roof rack, I don't know if anyone else notices this but it makes an incredible amount of noise while on the highway. I'm driving a loaner 400h while they get a new roof rack for ours and it is doing the same thing. This is rediculous for a car like this. Otherwise I love the car.

[Colo Springs RX400h]

Interesting. I have never noticed any noise from my roof rack, even with the moon roof open. Maybe try moving the arms? I have my front arm set as far forward as possible and my rear arm set as far back as possible.

Husker,

You have been on this site for a long time, so you have heard all the complaints regarding the 400h. Now, I haven't been on other model specific sites, and ever model may have just as many issues. But one of the things to consider before you purchase is whether or not you will get one of the 400h's with issues or not. I have been lucky with mine. I have no complaints with noises, lurches, lower mileage, or anything else other than the version of the voice command system that I got on the 2006 model. I have over 2200 miles on mine and have not had to take it into the dealer yet. That has never been the case with any of my other new cars (approximately 10 to 12).

However, I do believe the people who are reporting problems. So there does seem to be problems with some individual vehicles. Lexus and the dealers seem to be responsive for the most part to fixing problems when they occur. I have read somewhere that 90% of 400h owners would purchase there vehicle again. But ultimately you have to decide if this model has more issues than other similar models and weather you will be in the 90% group or in the 10% group.

Knock on wood, so far I am very happy with my 400h and love driving it every day. Good luck on your decision again.

12/2/2006

Husker,

I am finding what katzjamr found. My mileage has dropped to 23.5 with the very cold temperatures that we have had this last week. Temperatures have been between minus 3 to only around 20 something this week. It seems funny that the cold has more of a mileage cost than running the air conditioner. This Summer, I was getting 28.2.

[Husker4theSpurs]

Being a return customer I thought my dealership would at least offer me some kind of discount on the 400h, but they don't seem to want to deal at all.

Here is my question ... does Lexus even WANT to sell any 400hs? Do they think people will pay what works out to be $7000-$8000 more for a similarly equipped 400h (over the 350 due to discounting on the 350 and little to none for the most part on the 400h)?

I understand some people have gotten some decent discounts on the 400h, but overall you can't work as decent of a deal. I understand it's a supply and demand issue, but Lexus doesn't seem to produce AS many 400hs as they did last year just to keep the demand up ... I don't think it sold QUITE as well as they'd anticipated last year and that's part of the lower supply provided as well.

I'm all for paying the $3400-$4000 premium for the 400h and do a little part to help the environment, but it's ridiculous when it works out to be more like $7000-$9000.

Any opinions?

[tommy275]

Do they think people will pay what works out to be $7000-$8000 more for a similarly equipped 400h (over the 350 due to discounting on the 350 and little to none for the most part on the 400h)?

apparently people do. will they continue to if expectations of fuel economy aren't met? i don't know.

[Husker4theSpurs]

I'm looking into buying from So California and flying out to pick it up as a viable option. Anyone had one shipped?

[stuart8181]

Another benefit is super low emissions. The RX400h has a 9.5 EPA pollution rating with 10.0 being the best. The MDX is a 6 or a 7 depending upon the model. Other comparisons: A 2007 Corolla is a 7, and a Mini Cooper is a 2. So the Lexus hybrids are significantly cleaner than even most small cars. In fact, looking at the EPA site for small cars, nothing rates better than a 9.5, so the 400h is rated as clean as the Prius, the Honda Insight, and the natural gas version of the Civic.

You can find the EPA ratings at http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicle/select.htm

Here's my take on the RX400h. I am driving a 4300 pound AWD SUV that has the power and acceleration of a V-8. I have almost every convenience and gadget that can be put into a vehicle (I don't care about Sirius radio and the Ipod connection, however). I'm getting 27 - 28 MPG. I'm driving the quietest vehicle I have ever been in. I love the electronic continuous variable transmission. I am producing significantly less pollution than most small compacts. To my way of thinking, the RX400h has it all. We test drove the 400h, then test drove the 350. After driving the 350, we immediately negotiated for the 400h. The drive is just so much better, to me, I had to have it.

In terms of the aluminum trim, why don't you see if you can find it at any other dealer on the Internet? Taking a trip to pick up what you want may be better than waiting for who knows how long to get it. I have the aluminum trim on a 2006 model and I like it much better than the wood trim also.

Only major con to me is that the 400h is not for use off road, if that is important to you.

Good luck on your decision. If you have any specific questions, I'll try to answer them.

Unfortunately the pollution cost in manufacturing the batteries offsets any gain from the car. Also getting rid of the spent batteries is a major problem.

[Colo Springs RX400h]

I heard the batteries were made to be recycled - the nickol is valuable. Where did you get your information that they couldn't be. Also, what is your information source on the polution required to make the batteries verses savings?

[katzjamr]

It is my understanding that toyota has a program where they pay each dealer a $250 bounty for a returned battery and they recycle it. The pollution cost issue depends on how you do the math and whose agenda colors the outcome.

[SOMEONE ELSE'S GOT MY NAME]

I heard the batteries were made to be recycled - the nickol is valuable. Where did you get your information that they couldn't be. Also, what is your information source on the polution required to make the batteries verses savings?

They are recycled. The nickle IS valuable, and the polution to create them DOES NOT outweigh the setoff of less smog. Put another way, just because Stuart8181 says, "Unfortunately the pollution cost in manufacturing the batteries offsets any gain ...." doesn't make it any more or less true, than if you or I say, "I heard the batteries ARE recycled". But rather than look up and post links to that obvious fact, just use common reason. The industry wouldn't do something that lame. Stuart8181 may have heard some HumVee owner, or other anti-green person say it ... & took it as undisputed gospel.

The funny thing is that the same folks who make such statements, don't seem to worry much about the lead battery manufacturing in their "whatever" car ... or they don't care if there really is no "practical" rational for spending excess $$$ on their what-ever OTHER car. But a hybrid? Ohhhh ~ some will say, it MUST pencil out with a BIG profit before it's worthwhile. Let's face it, a bunch of us folks buy our cars for irrational reasons.

[SW03ES]

Stuart's a troll guys, just ignore him.

[Husker4theSpurs]

Since looking at the new Acura MDXs, I'm going to have to give them a hard look ... you get a lot of car for the money there. Fuel economy is the payment obviously ... I'll keep you guys posted.

Has anyone else considered the 2007 Acura MDX? How about people who ended up going with the RX 350?

[SW03ES]

The new MDX is really really nice. I'd have to seriously consider it too.

[RX400h]

I believe Consumer Reports still lists the RX400h at the top of the luxury SUV ratings, possibly because its fuel economy is quite a bit higher than that of all other luxury SUVs. Gas prices don't seem to be heading downward; if fact, they are still creeping towards $3.00/gallon once again. My philosophy is that if high-power and sporty handling is tops on your list, get a light (compared to an SUV) sportscar. You can end up with better handling, much more power, and even better fuel mileage compared to a "sporty" SUV.

A "combination" of vehicles over a "compromise" vehicle is another way to put it.

Dave

[Husker4theSpurs]

I hear ya ... I sometimes feel I should just get a smaller car overall, but would like some decent traction/ground clearance for the winter months. The MDX seems fairly sporty for WHAT IT IS, but still rides fairly soft as well. Kind of a nice mix ... I sure do feel guilt about missing out on the fuel economy of the 400h should I choose to go that way though.

Here's a pic of the 2007 Acura MDX ...

[bainse]

The lack of satellite radio (and mp3 jack) is annoying but no longer a big deal. There are at least two third-party solutions (for built in satellite controllable from your regular stereo controls), which your dealer can install for around $600. See www.factoryinteractive.com and www.vaistech.com, discussed elsewhere on this board.

Still pondering a decision on the 400h ... whether to order or not. What are some things you've noticed about your 400h that you REALLY like ... others that you REALLY dislike. I'm going to list some just going from what I've read and noticed myself. I'm also going to compare it to the RX 350/330

PROS (things that draw me to purchase):

-- Sedan fuel economy in crossover SUV style

-- Smooth CVT transmission (especially vs my jerky RX 330 tranny)

-- Great insulation and quietness (relative to the RX 330)

-- Reliability of Lexus in general

-- V-8 power to go along with increased fuel economy

CONS (things that hold me back from making a deal):

-- Having to order to get the aluminum trim in the '07s

-- NO "miles till empty" function like on the RX 350/330

-- NO Sirius radio through the factory stereo

-- NO iPod auxillary jack (even the older GX 470 has one now, what gives?)

-- The fact that a new RX model will most likely arrive in 16-18 months

-- Compared to the Lincoln MKX it seems to lack some options (heated rear seats ... much better stereo ... more room at the same size -- for less money, but the Lexus would still easily win on fuel economy). Also the same with the Acura MDX as well (except the MDX is larger).

---------------------------------

Now don't get me wrong ... just b/c I have more cons doesn't mean the pros don't outweigh the cons ... it's just that I already know more of the pros b/c I have an RX 330 and haven't listed all of those. I am sort of hesitant b/c the Lexus is later in its model life than some of the competitors, but then again when you get real-world 26-27 mpg in this style, it's hard to compare it to any other cars.

Two things that are REALLY minor, but seem to really bother me are:

The Satellite Radio option ... even if you want XM right now, it's sort of an add-on through Lexus after the fact. Sirius doesn't seem to be available right now at all. Competitors don't seem to have that problem ...

The Aux line in for an iPod or the like ... this CANNOT be that hard! They managed to do it with the older GX 470, yet haven't done it with the RX line for some reason.

Again I think it comes down to the fact that the RX line is nearing the end of its life cycle. Then I see some of the newer cars coming out where it's not even a second thought to incorporate Satellite radio and the iPod jack. Part of it is ... EVERYONE ELSE has been playing catch up with Lexus in this line and they have to make it up somewhere (pricing, options, etc). Lexus has been and still is the top dog.

Please add as much info as you can possibly think of ... agree/disagree, etc.

THANKS!

[Husker4theSpurs]

It's still annoying to me that you can't get that from the factory ...