Test Drove Is 250 Today

[falcon_on]

Well, I test drove the IS250 today. Overall, I like the vehicle but I think it is underpowered. I test drove it in 6 speed manual. When you rev it to around 4k, it get a bit loud. Comparing to audi 2.0T or Acura TSX with same horspower, the Luxus feel much slower and underpowered.

The solution is the 350 with the nice 300hp engine. The only problem that it comes only as automatic.

Are there any plans for a 6speed? Can't understand why they only offered auto if the competition offers manual (BMW, Audi, Infiniti, etc.).

Because of this, I might have to cross IS out from my shopping list.

[SW03ES]

Are there any plans for a 6speed? Can't understand why they only offered auto if the competition offers manual (BMW, Audi, Infiniti, etc.).

Because 95% of the public has no interest in a manual, and Toyota doesn't like marketing to niches. They sell so few IS350s compared to IS250s anyways designing a manual for the 350 doesn't make any sense for them.

[jfuller]

I test drove both the is250 and the tsx. even though the tsx may be a little faster, I thought the lexus felt stronger especially for passing. I tested the is250 at night and the tsx during the day so that might have made the difference. needless to say, I went with the lexus.

[falcon_on]

Because 95% of the public has no interest in a manual, and Toyota doesn't like marketing to niches. They sell so few IS350s compared to IS250s anyways designing a manual for the 350 doesn't make any sense for them.

Yes, I understand your point but I still think a true sports sedan should have a six speed manual and none of those silly paddle shifters. What, did Lexus think that 'true' sports enthusiasts would want less power? That small v6 in the 250 felt a bit pitchy at higher rpm. I was more impressed with the nsx' transmission and power.

Well, I'm taking out the 350 for a test drive on Wednesday to compare the power. But I'm sure I couldn't settle for auto tranny. Maybe I'll have to test drive the 250 again, just to compare.

[bartkat]

Once you drive a 350 you might just forget all about manual transmissions. :D

[caraveli]

Just go for an 02-03 BMW M3, I made a mistake for not doing it.

Dont get me wrong, IS350 is a great great car but I personally don't feel the power from a dead stop, only on the freeway, and before anyone respond they should drive the M3 or S4 or STI to understand the meaning of feeling the power. The car is strong but you can't really feel it and I know you would want to feel it. By the way... Comparing to the other cars I listed this car is horrible at turns.

I did not write this to argue with anyone, it is just my opinion.

P.S.

I had a 350z, Still have a 330 and used to have Cobra and 99 M3 so I know what it means to get glued to the seat when you hit the gas paddle (99 M3 is not even close to the new M3).

And if you don't want a used M3 just go for a MT BMW 330, you'll enjoy the drive better, it just a little too simple of interior but you can get over that.

http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/...21/pageNumber=1

[Rx330driver]

even though its called a sport sedan...its still a lexus, which usually appeals to family men, not young teenagers that want to rev up to the red line and go racing on the weekends...okay maybe this car does give out that connotation. I take all that back.

Well to help with the "loudness" of the engine, pull down the sun visors. :D

[SW03ES]

Yes, I understand your point but I still think a true sports sedan should have a six speed manual and none of those silly paddle shifters. What, did Lexus think that 'true' sports enthusiasts would want less power?

You're missing my point, Toyota has never been comfortable marketing niches, "true sports enthusiasts" is a niche group and its not worth it to them to design a manual for the 350 because they would only sell a few 100 of them a year. Its not worth the R&D costs. They only included a manual in the IS at all begrudgingly in the first place. Since they sell more IS250s they sell more IS250 manuals, and they also already have the manual for the 250 designed for sale in other countries so its more worthwhile for them.

They're also comfortable letting the "true sports enthusiasts" buy from other brands. Hey, Lexus is the best selling luxury marque in the US and the new IS has been a terrific seller, so they must be doing something right.

]Just go for an 02-03 BMW M3, I made a mistake for not doing it.

Dont get me wrong, IS350 is a great great car but I personally don't feel the power from a dead stop, only on the freeway, and before anyone respond they should drive the M3 or S4 or STI to understand the meaning of feeling the power. The car is strong but you can't really feel it and I know you would want to feel it. By the way... Comparing to the other cars I listed this car is horrible at turns.

Why does it surprise you that an M3 or an S4 or an STI would be more powerful and have better handling than an IS350? Totally different cars.

[falcon_on]

Caraveli, yes, I'm looking at the 330i as well and can't wait for the introduction of the 335 to see what it's all about. 330i is the benchmark for all sports sedans, but I'm just looking at alternatives to see whether it is worth to consider something else - whether from the price standpoint,performance, or feature wise.

I've almost concluded my test drives and will be taking the 330i for a spin on Saturday.

Rx330driver, I am a family man. But, this time around, I want a sports sedan with good power. It's not that I will race it, but from time to time you want to rev the vehicle a bit and know that the power is there if you need it.

SW03ES, I'm a bit confused by Lexus' marketing. The 350 is being marketed as a sports sedan and to me a sports sedan should definately have a six speed available. I think they are betting on some assumptions when they brought the 350 out with an auto. I hope they are right. I don't think it would cost them anything to put a manual in the 350. 250 has it, and these are basically the same cars. I'm sure if they wanted to offer a better tranny they could've borrowed it from the SC or some other vehicle. Besides, quite a few car makers put out flagship vehicles to represent the brand even though they don't make any money on them or even lose money for the brand. In Lexus case, I don't think that the 350 will be a money maker so why not backup their performance claims and marketing in regards to the vehicle and offer a manual transmission. Does not make business sense to me. Were they afraid that with the manual, the vehicle wouldn't stand up to competition?

[caraveli]

The best car for us luxury-sport sedan people is the........ M5

But it's out of our budget, lol.

Nothing is better then a brand new, over 400 hp, less then 5 seconds 0-60, well equipped, best handling, MT, family luxury sedan.

The M5 got it all.

Well...... I'll try to save the money. lol.

[UStifosi]

Why are you comparing the 350 with an S4 or M3 as those cars cost over ten grand more?

Lexus took the the old IS300 and split the car in two directions. Pretty good strategy if you ask me.

As semi-automatic gearboxes become more refined (see the Audi DSG) you will see the phasing out completely of traditional manuals. Semi-auto's have the best of both worlds and that's what the buying public want...an full auto in traffic and manual at the track.

[SW03ES]

SW03ES, I'm a bit confused by Lexus' marketing. The 350 is being marketed as a sports sedan and to me a sports sedan should definately have a six speed available.

Even sports sedans sell, at best, 15% with manuals. Do you know 3/4 of all Ferrari and Lamborghini sales are autos or manumatics? The driver that wants a manual is CERTAINLY a very small and growing ever smaller minority. Most new American drivers never even learn how to drive a manual.

I don't think it would cost them anything to put a manual in the 350. 250 has it, and these are basically the same cars. I'm sure if they wanted to offer a better tranny they could've borrowed it from the SC or some other vehicle.

While the cars may be very similar, the engine is not. You have to completely engineer a different transmission that can not only be mated to the 3.5 but that can handle the additional horsepower and torque as well. That costs a LOT of R&D money to do. And to what end? To sell 800 of them a year in the US. Manuals are much more popular in Europe, but they don't sell the IS350 in Europe. The only reason that the 250 has a manual is that its a requirement for successful sales in europe.

As for borrowing a manual from the SC, how? The SC doesn't have a manual either.

Besides, quite a few car makers put out flagship vehicles to represent the brand even though they don't make any money on them or even lose money for the brand. In Lexus case, I don't think that the 350 will be a money maker so why not backup their performance claims and marketing in regards to the vehicle and offer a manual transmission. Does not make business sense to me. Were they afraid that with the manual, the vehicle wouldn't stand up to competition?

While the business models Toyota operates on are certainly different from the business models American car companies operate on they have been EXTREMELY successful. In just 16 years Toyota has built the US' best selling luxury marque surpassing companies that have literally a century of heritage. Thats an overwhelming success. The IS itself has also been extremely successful and they sell every one they can build and then some. Toyota is well on its way to being the #1 automaker in the world, and that success comes from this very conservative, very Japanese, business philosophy.

Look what a less conservative business sense has done to every US automaker, bankrupt them.

You say several carmakers put manuals in many of their models despite the fact that so few new car sales are manuals. You must remember companies like BMW and Audi sell vehicles extensively in europe where manuals are much more popular. This helps cover the R&D costs, on top of the fact that these companies already have these transmissions designed. The fact that BMW offers manuals here is simply because they're already set up to build them so they figure "why not".

If power and a manual is extremely important to you, you're not the buyer Lexus is targeting with this car.

[kysg1]

Well, I test drove the IS250 today. Overall, I like the vehicle but I think it is underpowered. I test drove it in 6 speed manual. When you rev it to around 4k, it get a bit loud. Comparing to audi 2.0T or Acura TSX with same horspower, the Luxus feel much slower and underpowered.

The solution is the 350 with the nice 300hp engine. The only problem that it comes only as automatic.

Are there any plans for a 6speed? Can't understand why they only offered auto if the competition offers manual (BMW, Audi, Infiniti, etc.).

Because of this, I might have to cross IS out from my shopping list.

Try driving it again, the same day as a TL, Audi or BMW. We love ours!

[abz-pete]

I also thought the 250 was a bit sluggish at lower revs but the 350 is a different animal altogether. I'd have preferred a manual gearbox although the sports mode isn't a bad alternative.

[SkydotCom007]

Like what SW03ES said "If power and a manual is extremely important to you, you're not the buyer Lexus is targeting with this car."

The new Is. has much to afford than just that. If your looking in just horsepower, try focusing on american cars. All their cars are all pure power. !Removed! are turbo/supercharge.

And for those ppl that compare Is. with other cars like S4, M3, STi. You guys are totally comparing the wrong car with the Is. First you look into the price range. So TL, G35, IS, 330, etc. all those come into mind when comparing.

[jPAUL]

Like what SW03ES said "If power and a manual is extremely important to you, you're not the buyer Lexus is targeting with this car."

The new Is. has much to afford than just that. If your looking in just horsepower, try focusing on american cars. All their cars are all pure power. !Removed! are turbo/supercharge.

And for those ppl that compare Is. with other cars like S4, M3, STi. You guys are totally comparing the wrong car with the Is. First you look into the price range. So TL, G35, IS, 330, etc. all those come into mind when comparing.

tats right dude. the first thing to do is to go by the prices... you are'nt going to compare a 30k car to a 40k car.. so if you want to compare M3 or S4 to a lexus, don't look on IS... compare it with the GS. i guess that is fair enough..