Gumart1 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 I am currently changing out much of my front suspension. I had some visible play in the upper control arm bushings, so I know these need replacement. I also found that one of my rubber boots for the upper ball joint was torn, and most of the grease had leaked out. I've read that some people ignore this on the upper ball joints because the lower take the most wear. But I also noticed that if I move the threaded stud around in a circle it feels choppy, not smooth. I do not own a torque gauge with inch pounds, which is required to measure the free play according to the shop manual. Is the rough movement enough to determine that they are bad? Or is there anything else I can test while the control arm is hanging free with the ball joint? I'd do anything to save $650 - I already have the replacement bushings and the arms themselves are fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsalih Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 I would not replace it personally unless it was actually popping or clicking in the ball socket. O'Reilly and some other auto stores do sell some generic ball joint rubber boots that you can use to replace the torn one. I would try that first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AussiLS400 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 If it feels rough or not right i would change it. If the boot is torn it would have dirt in it and probably water. Go online and you can find one for about $350. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gumart1 Posted March 21, 2006 Author Share Posted March 21, 2006 Thanks for the help. VMF posted this awhile back - it's also straight out of the repair manual: "Remove upper suspension arm. Move ball joint stud back and forth five times, then install nut. Using torque wrench, turn nut continuously one turn per 2-4 seconds and take torque reading on fifth turn. If torque reading is not 9-30 in. lb. , replace upper suspension arm and ball joint." The movement of the ball is definitely rough when I turn it by hand, like it hits a stopping point instead of a smooth circle. Is this the degredation of the ball itself or another internal part? If I did have a torque gauge with inch pound readings, I still don't understand this test. It says to install the nut - do I hand tighten it? Or torque as if I'm installing the ball joint to the upper arm? Why would the torque reading on the nut tell me the condition of the ball joint? I'm totally confused with this test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mehullica Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 All this test measures is turning torque. There should not be any lateral or axial free play in the ball joint. I would replace the ball joints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 The torque test measures how much force it takes to turn the ball in the joint. Obviously, a worn ball joint will be lose (low torque) and good ball joint will be tight. A good ball joint should not have any play and should not be smooth when moved (hint: tight). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akewlguy Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Is it worth to replace when boot is torn.. Or just want till popping and noise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 When to replace? That depends on how much $$$ you want to spend, how long you're going to keep the car, and how anal you're. At $300 a pop I can see the hesitation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dperren Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 I don't think that you can just replace the upper ball joint in these car, don't you have to replace to whole control arm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexus082 Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 The torque test measures how much force it takes to turn the ball in the joint. Obviously, a worn ball joint will be lose (low torque) and good ball joint will be tight. A good ball joint should not have any play and should not be smooth when moved (hint: tight). So if I can turn the ball joint stud with my fingers is that too loose? Its smooth when moved but the stud is easily rototed and not sure how to tighten down the castle nut when re-installing. I think the ball joint stud and castle nut are going to rotate in the same direction which is going to prevent the nut from getting tight. Am I right or am I missing something? I just dont see how the balljoint is allowed any rotation, how are you going to tighten the castle nut if the stud turns?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threadcutter Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 082: I think the ball joint stud and castle nut are going to rotate in the same direction which is going to prevent the nut from getting tight. Am I right or am I missing something? I just dont see how the balljoint is allowed any rotation, how are you going to tighten the castle nut if the stud turns?? The taper on the stud (and the taper of the socket/receptacle) "locks" it in place/keeps it from turning. It's very similar to "Morse Taper(s)" for cutting tools on lathes & milling machines. It's been done this way for 100 + years. Don't worry, getting the castle nut tight will not be any problem. I don't know what it should be, maybe someone else here can tell you what the tightening torque should be. That has to be balanced with lining up the gaps in the nut with the hole in the stud for the cotter pin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexus082 Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 082: I think the ball joint stud and castle nut are going to rotate in the same direction which is going to prevent the nut from getting tight. Am I right or am I missing something? I just dont see how the balljoint is allowed any rotation, how are you going to tighten the castle nut if the stud turns?? The taper on the stud (and the taper of the socket/receptacle) "locks" it in place/keeps it from turning. It's very similar to "Morse Taper(s)" for cutting tools on lathes & milling machines. It's been done this way for 100 + years. Don't worry, getting the castle nut tight will not be any problem. I don't know what it should be, maybe someone else here can tell you what the tightening torque should be. That has to be balanced with lining up the gaps in the nut with the hole in the stud for the cotter pin. So what your saying is even though I can turn the stud by hand, once the ball joint stud is inserted into the knuckle it will keep the stud from turning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threadcutter Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 082: I think the ball joint stud and castle nut are going to rotate in the same direction which is going to prevent the nut from getting tight. Am I right or am I missing something? I just dont see how the balljoint is allowed any rotation, how are you going to tighten the castle nut if the stud turns?? The taper on the stud (and the taper of the socket/receptacle) "locks" it in place/keeps it from turning. It's very similar to "Morse Taper(s)" for cutting tools on lathes & milling machines. It's been done this way for 100 + years. Don't worry, getting the castle nut tight will not be any problem. I don't know what it should be, maybe someone else here can tell you what the tightening torque should be. That has to be balanced with lining up the gaps in the nut with the hole in the stud for the cotter pin. So what your saying is even though I can turn the stud by hand, once the ball joint stud is inserted into the knuckle it will keep the stud from turning? 082: That is correct. But, as per other posts, the fact that you can "turn" the stud of the ball joint by hand might indicate that the joint itself is worn enough to warrant replacement. When I re-did my front end, I only replaced the lowers. This was because I could pull the stud up & push it down about 3/32nd of an inch, whereas I could not do that with the uppers. The lowers failed & the uppers passed my go/no go test. Just a suggestion, if you haven't already purchased new lowers, go with OEM's. They're about $65.00 each. For the difference in cost between OEM's & aftermarket, I don't think aftermarket is the way to go on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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