Cam Seals.. How To Get The Pulleys Off To Get To Them

[sahtt]

Doing the TB job in its entirety. Used a chain wrench, some serious 'engineering', and a heavy duty torque wrench and the crank nut came off at about 180lbs of tq I'd guess, wasn't hard, did it with no help.

However, I locked the cam pulleys from movement and put some serious torque on the nuts without any success. There is no specific directions for this that I can find in the write-up or searching here or the maint. forum. I need to replace those cam seals and resync the timing to make sure everything is good before taking it farther apart to replace the tensioners, idle pulleys, and WP.

Thanks for any assistance, looking foward to getting this damn thing on the road.

[ko90ls]

sorry for the late reply but i think you can use the chain link wrench (if it's snap-on) and lock the cam in place. i read a post somewhere but can remember exactly. but most say loosen the nut while the timing belt is still on.

[Threadcutter]

Doing the TB job in its entirety. Used a chain wrench, some serious 'engineering', and a heavy duty torque wrench and the crank nut came off at about 180lbs of tq I'd guess, wasn't hard, did it with no help.

However, I locked the cam pulleys from movement and put some serious torque on the nuts without any success. There is no specific directions for this that I can find in the write-up or searching here or the maint. forum. I need to replace those cam seals and resync the timing to make sure everything is good before taking it farther apart to replace the tensioners, idle pulleys, and WP.

Thanks for any assistance, looking foward to getting this damn thing on the road.

sahtt;

Uhhhhh........................What year is your car?.................. :whistles:

You do know that once you remove the cam sprocket that valve spring pressure will probably cause the camshaft to rotate unless you have the actual camshaft locked off, don't you?

[sahtt]

Doing the TB job in its entirety. Used a chain wrench, some serious 'engineering', and a heavy duty torque wrench and the crank nut came off at about 180lbs of tq I'd guess, wasn't hard, did it with no help.

However, I locked the cam pulleys from movement and put some serious torque on the nuts without any success. There is no specific directions for this that I can find in the write-up or searching here or the maint. forum. I need to replace those cam seals and resync the timing to make sure everything is good before taking it farther apart to replace the tensioners, idle pulleys, and WP.

Thanks for any assistance, looking foward to getting this damn thing on the road.

sahtt;

Uhhhhh........................What year is your car?..................:whistles:

You do know that once you remove the cam sprocket that valve spring pressure will probably cause the camshaft to rotate unless you have the actual camshaft locked off, don't you?

The car is a 91. I'm looking for people with some experience actually doing this if possible. Yes the cams will rotate, it is somewhat unavoidable and doesn't really matter anyhow, as long as it is corrected once the new belt is back on. They rotate back even if the cam sprocket is still on once you turn them. When I say I put 250lbs of tq, I mean I locked the cam in place and put that much pressure counter-clockwise on the nut and it did nothing. Doesn't make any difference if the timing belt is on, and that doesn't even make sense as you can't use the chain wrench tool while the belt is still on the pulley. Someone here has bound to have done it themselves before.

[sahtt]

Anyone at least know the screen name of someone who may have done this I can attempt to contact?

[SRK]

The manual for my 92 LS400 shows the factory service tool being used, a rather simple horseshoe shape with two pins on it, holding the pulley and a breaker bar to loosen the bolt. The tightening torque is only 80 ft/lbs. A 1/2 in impact gun should remove the bolt easily.

For what it is worth, I haven't done this job yet.

[wandawoods]

you need SST09960-10010 according to repair manual:

[sapper_daddy]

hey if you have a torch i've made this tool from scratch it is not hard

also the com sprokets are keyed so you'll be okay basically they only go on ONE way and then when you put the new belt on line up the little white lines on the outside of the belt and it will tell you which cam just remember when it says left cam or right cam that means if the hood is up and you are facing the front of the car!!! Good luck and just take your time and user grey matter and it'll be on the road in no time.....whew mardi gras is FUN!!!!!!!!!!! what i'll feel like in the AM>>>>> :chairshot:

[sahtt]

Thanks a ton for the information. Though I'm still a bit worried. I put much more than 80lbs on the nuts, twice the torque required to remove the crank bolt, yet it didn't budge. So it 100% certainly left-loosey on these as well correct? Didn't mention left hand thread in the diagrams. I guess I can put force on it with a new-found confidence, perhaps that'll do the trick.

[sapper_daddy]

yeah i'm definitly pretty sure they are regular threads but just make sure your aren't tourquing down at any funny angles or anythingdead on at a perpendicular manner.........slowly increase until is gets there, make sure you are securly and safely locking the sprockets in place and when worse comes to worse use a cheater pipe and like i said slowly increase pressure and it'll come off......i just hate to see someone have them stuck like this, but i've only done this on one car.......mine but just remember if you don't get too excited and take your time........i'm pretty sure it's left if it wasn't that'd be something i would have remembered and something that is stated often in these forums, take your time!!! good luck

edit: oh hey apply a LITTLE bit of heat (maybe with a little hand torch) and then put a socket on and slightly tap with a brass or ball peen hammer and maybe that will shock it ever so gently into submission

[mehullica]

I'd put the old belt on, lock the crank pulley with a chain wrench and use a breaker bar with a pipe extension and break loose the cam sprocket bolts. Normal lefty-loosey threads.

[sahtt]

I'd put the old belt on, lock the crank pulley with a chain wrench and use a breaker bar with a pipe extension and break loose the cam sprocket bolts. Normal lefty-loosey threads.

You can't use a chain wrench on a pulley that still has the belt on it, but good idea.

[Threadcutter]

I'd put the old belt on, lock the crank pulley with a chain wrench and use a breaker bar with a pipe extension and break loose the cam sprocket bolts. Normal lefty-loosey threads.

You can't use a chain wrench on a pulley that still has the belt on it, but good idea.

sahtt;

OK, nobody else seems willing to ask the stupid question, so I will:

There seems to be something wrong with this picture. Why is it, after applying 250 foot pounds of torque to a nut that was "supposed" to have been installed with 80 foot pounds, the nut is still not free? I'm not sure I'd be seeking out a "bigger lever" just yet.

I know the question is of no help, but perhaps it will spare you having some otherwise serious damage that could have been avoided.

[Shadow]

I used air impact gun without any problem.

[sahtt]

I'd put the old belt on, lock the crank pulley with a chain wrench and use a breaker bar with a pipe extension and break loose the cam sprocket bolts. Normal lefty-loosey threads.

You can't use a chain wrench on a pulley that still has the belt on it, but good idea.

sahtt;

OK, nobody else seems willing to ask the stupid question, so I will:

There seems to be something wrong with this picture. Why is it, after applying 250 foot pounds of torque to a nut that was "supposed" to have been installed with 80 foot pounds, the nut is still not free? I'm not sure I'd be seeking out a "bigger lever" just yet.

I know the question is of no help, but perhaps it will spare you having some otherwise serious damage that could have been avoided.

Not a stupid question at all. This is the exact thought process that let me here to post this question. I already knew, in a general sense, how to remove them. I've done TB jobs on a couple other cars with a similar engine set-up in the same manner. I also didn't want to break something in the process, as there are few parts on this car that are cheap, and even fewer that aren't a PITA to remove [on the engine that is]. There was no guesswork involved in my calculations either, as the torque wrench is heavy duty and very accurate, over 100$ USD. It registered and gave way at 250lbs which shocked me, as that is what I had set it at. When looking very closely at the cams, it isn't 100% evident that the nuts come off in this fashion either.

On the other hand, the pages of the service manual that were generously provided clearly show the same process I am undertaking. I'm about to go outside and try my luck again.

Realistically, I'll probably doing the starter within the next 2 months as well. I've put about 1k miles in the car right now, but I'm obsessive about doing repairs/maint. in an orderly basis. I do NOT want to do anymore work on this car by accidently messing up the cams or the like.

[Threadcutter]

sahht:

I do NOT want to do anymore work on this car by accidently messing up the cams or the like.

Yeah, that pretty much sums up my point as well.

I assume that you cannot see enough of the front of the camshaft to be able to tell which direction the thread is? I can't imagine that the cam tool would do you any good when you've already had 250 ft. lbs of torque on the nut. I guess I'd recommend some penetrating oil & alternating heat. But once you've applied heat, you might as well assume your seal is totally shot.

If you re-read Mehullica's post, he mentioned putting the chain wrench on the crank pulley, which I assume to mean the serpentine belt pulley and not the crank T/B sprocket. It's been a little while since I've had my head in there, but I think that's do-able.

[sahtt]

I finally got the pulleys off. The one marked 'L' [on the right if you are looking at it from in front of the car] took about 275lbs. The 'R' took over 300lbs, I have no way of knowing exactly. It literally took everything in me before that damn thing got loose. I'm no hulk, but I'm 175lbs and can bench about 275lbs and work out 3 times a week for the last 3 or 4 yeras. The element of time can twist bolts huge amounts. I'd definetely get some PB blaster if I had to do it again. I already pulled one seal out but the new one didn't go in flush so I may have to rip it out and buy another one at Lexus tomorrow. I'm off to get some better dental tools to make the job easier since the crank seal will probably be just as much of a PITA.

I would have never dreamed of putting that much force on it without knowing beforehand that is 100% the correct way to do it, thanks to you guys.

My recommendation is use an air gun or soak it for 24 hours+ in PB blaster and have a friend help if you don't have fairly immediate success getting them off.

Like mentioned above, it's the static torque of an impact gun that makes the job much easier.

[sahtt]

sahht:

I do NOT want to do anymore work on this car by accidently messing up the cams or the like.

Yeah, that pretty much sums up my point as well.

I assume that you cannot see enough of the front of the camshaft to be able to tell which direction the thread is? I can't imagine that the cam tool would do you any good when you've already had 250 ft. lbs of torque on the nut. I guess I'd recommend some penetrating oil & alternating heat. But once you've applied heat, you might as well assume your seal is totally shot.

If you re-read Mehullica's post, he mentioned putting the chain wrench on the crank pulley, which I assume to mean the serpentine belt pulley and not the crank T/B sprocket. It's been a little while since I've had my head in there, but I think that's do-able.

You and Mehullica are right. You can use the crank pulley, I wasn't thinking clearly. That is a good idea for anyone attempting this next time. It is easy to position the chain wrench to support itself [against the lower frame for example] to increase your torque. But with the cam pulleys, especially the left one, you basically have to support it yourself.

[Threadcutter]

You and Mehullica are right. You can use the crank pulley, I wasn't thinking clearly. That is a good idea for anyone attempting this next time. It is easy to position the chain wrench to support itself [against the lower frame for example] to increase your torque.

sahtt:

I guess congrats are in order! :D Good Lord! 300 pounds?!?!? Yeesh. That surely didn't come from the factory that way. Did you notice any Godzilla droppings anywhere?

As I was typing (more like copying Mehullica's suggestion) I was a little worried that your crank pulley would end up like a pretzel because of all the torque. Glad to hear that it all made sense.

I haven't used PB Blaster, but I've been a big fan of Kroil in the past. Think I'll give PB a try. I see it on the shelves at all the local auto parts stores, so it already has an advantage (availability) over Kroil.

[sapper_daddy]

oh well i put my foot in my mouth on that one....glead to hear you got it off!

[Threadcutter]

s/d;

That's OK, if you run out, I've got plenty of extra room.................I've got a big mouth & small feet :D

[lexus400]

Everyone plant this somewhere in the back of your mind.....

A couple of years ago, I was doing a TB on an ES300 and couldn't get the crank bolt off. I have a

Craftsman/IR 1/2" gun with a 6 HP compressor. I tried for over and hour with no success. No

what it turned out to be ?

The button on my gun wasn't pushed in all the way !! It was in enough to operate and sound like it

was hammering away but was probably only putting out 1/2 the torque. Did I feel like a dope.

It's the first thing I check when I can't get a bolt off now...