Need Your Help: 00 Rx300 Or Other New Car?

[kthan]

Hi there,

It is my first post at this forum. I have been a occasional poster at Toyota Nation, though.

Now I am faced with a tough decision for my new car. I currently have 2000 Camry LE V6 and want to change the car because this car had really poor city mpg (only 12 mpg... but still very good at highway... 27mpg as promised). I originally looked for 06 Camry SE 4 cylinder (because of gas). While I am searching the car, my friend suggested me to buy his wife's 2000 RX300 AWD(with only 20000 miles) with limited option package (as far as I found, they have all the options except Nakamichi Audio and VSC..original MSRP is $40200. I belive Traction control is standard..right?). Right Now, I am actually driving RX300 because my friend and his family was out of country for four month and asked me to take care of the car.

My driving impression on RX300: nice, quiet, and smooth ride, luxurious feel with all the bang and whistles, versatile as SUV and AWD, and it is Lexus!

I found some cons/doubts on the car, though: As many pointed out, big turning radius, little too soft brake (I need more power to brake... maybe it is just a matter of adjustment specific on this car), tranny shift not as smooth as Camry I had...(maybe it seems to be related to the car owner... my friend's wife mostly drive at a city and quite slowly...may need another break-in?), and, as known, gas mileage (the panel shows lifetime mpg so far was 13.9... but according to her, she got about 18mpg in a city). My friend offered me a KBB private party price ($20000-$21000, depending on either excellent or good).

Considering purchase costs, RX300 would be cheaper about $2500-$3000, but I would need extended warranty (about $1000? please give me any info) since I heard some had tyranny problem with this model. Plus, I need to spend more gas.

I am driving 70% city/30% highway. If I can get 20 mpg in Camry (compared to 15mpg with this car), assuming 12000 mile/year with $3/gallon), I need to spend about $600 more per year. But, instead, I will get all the benefits RX300 had (SUV, AWD..great for snow/rain here in Chicago, luxury & convenience..etc). Also, I would have more davaluaion on a new camry than RX300, if I plan to use either car for about 3year/36000 miles.

Other than cost/benefit shown I do know this is very personal decision. What I want to ask here is how about the above RX300 in terms of reliability, performance and resale value? Would this car okay if I got extended warranty and tried to adjust some areas I mentioned above (i.e., brake adjust...possible? or, I have to get used to.. and brake-in for smoother tranny and faster accelation)? I was quite surprised at the resale value (dramatic decrease from $40000 to $20000 in five years with only 20000 miles). I am little worried about this too (after 2-3 years with around 50000 mile.. can I sell it around $16k?).

I am so sorry for this long post. But, I really need your opinions/comments for my next vehicle. I truly appreciate all of your valuable inputs.

[lenore]

Please read the transmission thread problems on the AWD RX300./They can be very expensive ($4200 and up)

[RX in NC]

Yes, be sure to search this forum using "transmission failure" as your key search words.

My wife drives a 2000 RX300 AWD. Because of the large number of failures we've experienced with this vehicle, we'll never buy another one.

[LexKid630]

check the transmission fluid to see if it's dark and burnt. If it is, turn away.

If it isn't just change the fluid ever 15,000 miles and baby it. It should be ok if taken care of before the problem starts. with that low mileage i doubt anything's wrong with it yet.

[kthan]

check the transmission fluid to see if it's dark and burnt. If it is, turn away.

If it isn't just change the fluid ever 15,000 miles and baby it. It should be ok if taken care of before the problem starts. with that low mileage i doubt anything's wrong with it yet.

←

How should it be taken care of in order to prevent failure? Just change the fluid every 15000 miles?

Regarding the transmission problem, since I will buy extended warranty anyway if I buy RX300, I don't think it would be a big matter, as long as the extended warranty price is much higher than expected (anyone have idea?).

It seems to me that the cost of repair/maintenance that is not covered under extended warranty would be expensive. What maintenance would I expect up to 50000 miles and how much more expensive, compared to the others, say toyota vehicle? (like Tune up, battery, tire...probably, brake pad, anything else?)

[LexKid630]

check the transmission fluid to see if it's dark and burnt. If it is, turn away.

If it isn't just change the fluid ever 15,000 miles and baby it. It should be ok if taken care of before the problem starts. with that low mileage i doubt anything's wrong with it yet.

←

How should it be taken care of in order to prevent failure? Just change the fluid every 15000 miles?

Regarding the transmission problem, since I will buy extended warranty anyway if I buy RX300, I don't think it would be a big matter, as long as the extended warranty price is much higher than expected (anyone have idea?).

It seems to me that the cost of repair/maintenance that is not covered under extended warranty would be expensive. What maintenance would I expect up to 50000 miles and how much more expensive, compared to the others, say toyota vehicle? (like Tune up, battery, tire...probably, brake pad, anything else?)

←

In my personal opinion, no AWD rx300's origional transmission will last over 250,000 miles. I just can't see it happening! My old 99 rx300 AWD's tranny died in 03 under 70,000 miles, and my other old 03 rx300 i bought to replace that one was showing symptoms a while back so i sold that.

Besides the transmission, the car is perfect!

[RX in NC]

The RX300 AWD is far from perfect. It is prone to:

1. Premature transmission failure.

2. Cracked exhaust manifold.

3. Multiple premature oxygen sensor failures.

4. Rear main oil seal failure.

5. Strut mount rubber bushing failure.

All of these are common issues well-known and much-discussed on this forum. Our RX300 AWD has been meticulously maintained and still suffered from every single one of the issues listed above. Fortunately for us, I'm a bulldog and I forced Lexus to repair all of these problems at no cost to us. Most of the problems (but not all of them) occurred while the vehicle was still under the original 50,000-mile warranty.

This is an expensive vehicle to maintain if you cannot perform general routine maintenance yourself. Be aware of that going in. Get some basic tools and learn to maintain the vehicle yourself - this forum will provide you with a wealth of information towards doing so. But keep in mind that if you decide to purchase an RX300 AWD, you should set aside a couple thousand dollars as a maintenance account. You'll need it.

[lenore]

I agree with RX NC , this could be a very costly vehicle if you do not do the maintenance yourself. If it were me, I would look at the 2wd or a Accura MDX. At least Honda stands behind their vehicle. Our woes with Lexus have shown the lack of customer support that you will receive. If you want AWD buy a Toyota 4runner or Accura. They are much better engineering wise and you will have better service at the dealerships.

[LexKid630]

I agree with RX NC , this could be a very costly vehicle if you do not do the maintenance yourself.  If it were me, I would look at the 2wd or a Accura MDX.  At least Honda stands behind their vehicle.  Our woes with Lexus have shown the lack of customer support that you will receive.  If you want AWD buy a Toyota 4runner or Accura.  They are much better engineering wise and you will have better service at the dealerships.

←

also make sure not to look at the toyota highlander's since they have the same transmission as the rx.

[SW03ES]

Just out of curiosity, why would you assume you'd have better service at Toyota dealers than Lexus dealers?

I have both a Toyota and a Lexus and I can tell you thats certainly not the case. Toyota customer service is terrible. Lexus has never given me a problem having repairs done and I find my dealership a total delight. I have yet to find a halfway decent Toyota dealership and getting warranty work done has been a HUGE PITA on a vehicle with only a couple thousand miles.

[lenore]

I believe I have received better service from Toyota, because I get the impression and results that I am not just a dumb buyer, non mechanic when I do business with them. At Lexus, They seem to have an attitude that the customer knows nothing about cars, other than how to purchase them and fork over the service money. Maybe the cliental at Lexus dealerships fall mostly in that category.... I don't know, but they are very surprised when I can back up my mechanical expertise and show the poor quality work that they have performed on my vehicle. Personally, I do not trust but a very few dealerships when it comes to service. Those can be counted on one hand. Toyota locally has literally saved me thousands of dollars for the same maintenance that Lexus offered and the car came back in one piece, unlike the service from my local Lexus dealerships.

[RX in NC]

Dealership service quality varies from state to state, city to city, and even block to block. Your experience (and therefore your opinion) will depend entirely upon how you're treated and responded to when you have a problem. Consistent willingness to listen to your concerns and respond accordingly with professionalism and dedication is an all-too-rare trait these days, whether it's at an American, Japanese, German, British, Italian, or any other nationality's service department.

Want to have a much more successful experience EVERY TIME at the service department of your choosing? Here's what you need to do:

1. Thoroughly research your problem and come to understand some of the potential causes and solutions before you even pick up the phone or walk in the service bay. Knowledge is power. It also keeps a borderline-competent service advisor from attempting to blow smoke up your !Removed! and drain your wallet.

2. When you do darken their door, introduce yourself with confidence and a solid handshake, look them straight in the eye, explain your issue in detail with clarity and precision, and state what you expect the outcome to be.

3. Be professional, be polite, but always speak clearly and be firm in tone and manner. Stand your ground, maintain your expectations, and do not negotiate unless you realize that you will have to be willing to accept less than your original expected outcome.

4. You do not have to possess a Clint Eastwood persona to be successful at this. An Alan Greenspan mentality works even better. Do enough research to always know the numbers better than they do and you will maintain the upper hand even if you're more like Barney Fife rather than Captain Kirk.

Over the past couple of decades I've trained the service departments I use to respond to my needs rather than allowing them to train me to respond to theirs. It works, folks, and my experiences with our local Lexus dealership are living proof of that. I've never paid them a penny and we've received more than $9,000 worth of required repairs during the last two years as well as all the loaner cars we need to keep my wife rolling while her flaky RX300 is in the shop.

[bluestu]

Just even mention the topic "thinking about buying an RX" and the same four people go into a frenzy about the lemons they purchased and how any car would be better than a Lexus RX. Personally, I haven't had any major problems with either one of my RX300s yet. I have around 90k on both of them and have had the transmissions totally flushed every 15k using T/IV fluid of course. I've driven some of the other luxury SUVS and thought they sucked compared to the RXs. Personally, I would never take any my cars to a dealership unless it concerned a warranty issue.

[LexKid630]

Just even mention the topic "thinking about buying an RX" and the same four people go into a frenzy about the lemons they purchased and how any car would be better than a Lexus RX. Personally, I haven't had any major problems with either one of my RX300s yet. I have around 90k on both of them and have had the transmissions totally flushed every 15k using T/IV fluid of course. I've driven some of the other luxury SUVS and thought they sucked compared to the RXs. Personally, I would never take any my cars to a dealership unless it concerned a warranty issue.

←

...compared to other SUV's in its class the rx300 is good, we're just talking about the faults the rx300 does have (which was in the initial question). We wont even mention how bad American SUV's are...

i'm not saying NOT to buy a used AWD rx300, i'm just saying there ARE other SUV's out there (4Runner for ex) that seem to have higher reliability than the rx300. I have owned 3 rx300's in my family, that's how much i like them. Even after my 99 tranny went out i ewnt out and bought an 03 rx300. Even when that one started to show symptoms of tranny failure i decided to buy my daughter another rx300!!

Believe me, if i thought this was "unsafe" i wouldn't give one as a first car to my daughter. It just so happens that this wonderful SUV has a problem with the transmission. I will never buy another rx300 obviously, but i'm not saying it's a "bad" SUV. The tranny failure is the only thing i have against the rx300. I haven't experienced anything esle (besides a few minor irritating things wrong with my old 2003 like moonroof not working and squeeks everywhere) with the rx300, that would make me say it's horrible. When you go through the tranny failure you'll say it's horrible, but when you look around, you'll say it's good.

[RX in NC]

bluestu,

As I've said to you before, I'm happy for you that you haven't experienced the known problems with your vehicles that a number of us have. I hope you never do. Consider yourself fortunate.

But the failures that I mentioned previously are well-known and common. They do occur. Many of us have had to deal with them.

I don't know how long you've been owning and driving vehicles, but I've been doing so for almost 36 years now. I've had Japanese, American, Italian, and German vehicles of numerous makes and models; some were great and some were mediocre. But this RX300 has given us more problems than all of our other 20-plus vehicles combined, and it has been babied like no other we've owned. Had you experienced our situation, you would understand.

[JDC]

Even though I drive an 02 RX Coach edition and have been 100% satisified with our purchase, I'd personally opt a new 2006 Camry given your reasons for trading (i.e. better gas mileage). And that's only the beginning - you get a warranty, new tires, new brake pads etc etc etc.

My experience with the RX is, for all intensive purposes, the mileage doesn't vary too much between city and highway driving. Not like our Acura CL does anyway.

And relative to my Cadillac Fleetwood I don't even blink an eye even with our horrific Canadian Gas Prices (and taxes).

[lenore]

Yes the same four people are the whistle blowers to the potentially very costly failure that could happen to the buyers of these used AWD RX300. Some of us are not wealthy, but work very hard and made the sacrifices to purchase a luxuary vehicle that supposedly had fantastic reliability. Failure of a transmisson before a 150 k is absolutely rediculous when you consider the cheaper automobiles out there that do not have this failure. I love driving the RX300 and through thick and thin accept minor wear and tear, but when you meticulously maintain the vehicle (tranny fluid changes at 30k) before I discovered this site, I no way expected such a failure. My mothers 86 mustang had 218k and was still on the orginal tranny. Yes I am upset, ($4200 later and on my third tranny) and a very sarcastic support from Lexus of America. Nothing before this would have indicated their complete lack of real customer care. I hope to drive this vehicle another 4 or 5 years, but have lost a great deal of confidence in Lexus. I just don't want some one else, who may purchase a used RX under the impression that it is extremely reliable (Toyota product) to get hosed as I have felt my wife and I did from Lexus of America, and Lexus of Roseville, CA. I too have had experience with Bristish, German, and other Japanese Automobiles, and took what they gave me. The British by far were the worse, but the Japanese auto's have been great. The German some where in between. The Professionalism that RX NC shows in the show room and service centers is exempluary but not all owners are capable of pulling that off. I believe he probably has a very good education on mechanics from hobby, pleasure, or profession and that is how he is able to command what he wants. I too am very confident of my mechanical abilities, but like a idiot I trusted that Lexus would treat me fairly, but it did not happen. I was even made promises of retribution with a discount which never materialized. Anyway that is the soap stand for today, buyer be careful....

[bluestu]

I've seen numerous people experience transmission failures on many types of vehicles before 100k, mostly on American cars. I've asked them if they ever changed the fluid and filter, and of course they hadn't. They weren't even aware it needed to be done.

Obviously the transaxle on an RX300 requires different maintenance than a standard transmission and definitely requires more than 3qts of fluid when serviced. In my opinion, the people that have experienced the transaxle failures haven't performed the proper maintenance or maybe used the wrong type fluid which possibly led to the premature failures. Towing trailers might also cause failures since the car doesn't seem to have enough power for towing. I'm not trying to push any buttons here, but I have many reliable sources to back me on this issue.

I'm glad everyone posts their problems on this forum. It sure has helped me solve some of mine and possibly prevent future ones. The bottom line is that all cars are a pain in the !Removed! and cost a small fortune to operate and maintain, some more than others.

[LexKid630]

I can tell you why my 99 rx300's tranny went out: I am an aggressive driver and don't exactly baby my cars. I drive at high speeds daily for over 3 hours to and from work, and i didn't do anything to the car except every service at the dealer. Whatever they do at each service, they do. I just had the 60,000 mile service done on the rx330 a few weeks ago, and i couldn't tell you ONE thing they did. I just assume they know what they're doing; that's why i apy; so i don't have to think....but that's why these problems happen to my cars, bucause i don't take great care of them. That's why i'm not blaming anyone except myself.

The only reason i say the AWD transmission on the rx300 is bad because it's been the first and only car where it has blown out in the life i owned the car (usually 2-5 years). Every other car's transmission "i've" owned has worked fine for me, but the rx300.

My rx330 at 65,980 miles is working PERFECTLY! not ONE thing has broken on it since i've owned it it's whole life. It still runs as it did the day i got it, and it's just percfect.

In 2003 when my 1999 rx300 was at 65,000 miles, it was just starting to show signs of the transmission failure, such as the lagging and humming noises upon accelerating/decellerating. A few thousnad miles later it went out all together. My old 2003 rx300 earlier this year at 65,000 miles started to show the same symptoms so i figured that was on its way out too.

I guess the only people on LOC are those who have had problems with their cars. My aunt has an AWD 2001 rx300 with around 59,000 something miles on it, and it's transmission is perfect. I looked at the fluid, and it's crystal clear (well red LOL). And she's a horrible driver!!

It's all chance if you ask me. I and the others on here who experienced the failure were just the ones who had bad luck..maybe it's how it was built at the factory...who knows!

All i know is that i would advise anyone who is seeking out an AWD rx300, to look for other cars if this premature transmission failure scares them. it may never happen to that rx300, but who knows!

I'm not trying to detour anyone, i'm just trying the best i can to inform you on the terrible experience that i and many others went through. Not being able to downshift going 80mph on the highway isn't fun! Or totally breaking down in the middle of an intersections isn't either! These are just a few of the ways the AWD transmission can make your lives more miserable... :(

Again, i'm just trying to help. Believe me, i LOVE lexus, but i love people and their safety more...

[bluestu]

I didn't realize that you were the Lexus man. Your insurance premium must be a monster!!! To be honest with you, I'm more worried about my two 15yr. old Trane heat pumps going out on me than I am the transmissions on my RXs. I guess I better start saving up. Oh yeah, the 90k service is due on both my RXs. Can anyone spare some cash???

[RX in NC]

If you have 15 years on your double Trane heat pumps you've done very well. I had to replace my double Bryant (Carrier) heat pumps last year at 11.5 years of age. I take care of our HVAC systems just as I do our automobiles - in fact, our HVAC systems are the only components in the house that I keep under a service contract. But the Bryant units began a painfully slow decline when they were about 7 years old so I finally decided to do the research in autumn 2003 and wound up replacing them in March 2004.

After doing a ton of on-line research as well as interviewing numerous HVAC contractors over a two-month span, it came down to Lennox, Trane, and Amana. Lennox has maintained a high-profile reputation, Trane is the most visible due to their constant advertising, and I'd always thought of Amana as a manufacturer of kitchen appliances such as microwaves (they invented the technology) and refrigerators but had never really heard of them in the HVAC market. As it turns out, nobody else could come close to the Amana warranty - lifetime on the Copeland scroll compressors and 10 years on everything else. Lennox and Trane essentially offered 5-year warranties across the board - not even in the same ballpark with Amana. And the Amana units were the most energy-efficient with the highest SEER ratings to boot. Lennox was priced a bit higher than Trane and Amana, but pricing wasn't nearly as much of a factor for me as warranty and efficiency were.

So I selected the Amana units with top-of-the-line Honeywell programmable thermostats and our monthly power bills immediately decreased by two-thirds while the house stays completely comfortable regardless of extreme heat or freezing cold outside. Amazing. My only regret is not doing this about three years sooner.

For those of you who might be considering new heat pumps with heating season quickly approaching, you should check out the Amana line. I went with twin Amana RHF TempAssure heat pumps (15 SEER), twin Amana BBA air handlers, and twin Honeywell Chronotherm IV Deluxe programmable thermostats. The Amana HVAC website is www.amana-hac.com.