Will Time Cause Synthetic Oil Break Down?

[aaron.q.wang]

I use synthetic oil for my ES300 96. Now is the sixth month after last oil change, but I only drive 3000 miles. Do I need to change the oil whatever the mileage it is? or I can wait till the 5000 miles? I seach on the website somebody said the synthetic oil would not break down by time, is this true?

Thanks to give me some suggestion.

[Lexusfreak]

I use synthetic oil for my ES300 96. Now is the sixth month after last oil change, but I only drive 3000 miles.  Do I need to change the oil whatever the mileage it is? or I can wait till the 5000 miles? I seach on the website somebody said the synthetic oil would not break down by time, is this true?

Thanks to give me some suggestion.

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What brand of synthetic oil are you using? (IE: Amsoil says you can use their 5W 30 for a year or 25,000 miles, just change the oil filter after 6 months & top up). Synthetic oil last much longer than conventional oil for sure, but it won't last forever & the oil filter will need to be changed in that time as well.....I would at least do that.....but if you do, why not just change the oil while your at it. B)

[aaron.q.wang]

Thank you for your reply.

Before I use Castrol Synthetic oil 5w-50 but I am going to change to Amsoil synthetic oil 5w-30 on my next oil change. The problem for me is I did not find the Amsoil synthetic oil in Canadian Tire or Walmart in Montreal. ( Maybe I need spend more time to find it.) So maybe I will chose Mobile 1 next time.

By the way, do I must use Lexus oil filter? Can I use other brand instead it?

[Lexusfreak]

Thank you for your reply.

Before I use Castrol Synthetic oil 5w-50 but I am going to change to Amsoil synthetic oil 5w-30 on my next oil change. The problem for me is I did not find the Amsoil synthetic oil in Canadian Tire or Walmart in Montreal. ( Maybe I need spend more time to find it.) So maybe I will chose Mobile 1 next time.

By the way, do I must use Lexus oil filter? Can I use other brand instead it?

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I use the Amsoil HD (heavy duty) oil filter with the Amsoil 5W 30 (which is close in price to a K & N filter at CT or Mobil 1 filter at popular autp parts stores in the U.S.). Contact Amsoil directly & they will be able to direct you to the dealers in the Montreal area. B)

It's the best stuff you can use (better than Mobil 1 & Castrol Syntec which I use to use as well!) ;)

Here is an article comparing Amsoil to Mobil 1.

http://www.amsoil.com/performancetests/amsoil_vs_mobil1.aspx

www.amsoil.com

[vcv10guy]

Thank you for your reply.

Before I use Castrol Synthetic oil 5w-50 but I am going to change to Amsoil synthetic oil 5w-30 on my next oil change. The problem for me is I did not find the Amsoil synthetic oil in Canadian Tire or Walmart in Montreal. ( Maybe I need spend more time to find it.) So maybe I will chose Mobile 1 next time.

By the way, do I must use Lexus oil filter? Can I use other brand instead it?

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Just don't use FRAM oil filters because they lack anti-flowback valve (that's the best way I can describe it).

[steviej]

rule of thumb by most people that i know in the business is to change the oil at least every 6 months regardless of the miles.

It is not so much the break down of the oil if any at all, it is the prolonged exposure of the interals to any acids that may build up and sit in the oil. Prime reason why anyone that stores a vehicle (car, boat, motorcycle, etc) will always put in fresh oil before the vehicle goes to bed.

as for the oil filter, Toyota OEM, Mobil 1, K&N, Wix, Amsoil are all superb choices.

steviej

[Lexusfreak]

Agreed! B)

[aaron.q.wang]

rule of thumb by most people that i know in the business is to change the oil at least every 6 months regardless of the miles.

It is not so much the break down of the oil if any at all, it is the prolonged exposure of the interals to any acids that may build up and sit in the oil.  Prime reason why anyone that stores a vehicle (car, boat, motorcycle, etc) will always put in fresh oil before the vehicle goes to bed.

as for the oil filter,  Toyota OEM, Mobil 1, K&N, Wix, Amsoil are all superb choices.

steviej

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Hi Steviej,

Thanks a lot! I will change the oil evry 6 months with Amsoild synthetic oil and filter ( if not, mobile 1 synthetic oil and filter).

Aaron

[mburnickas]

Agreed!   B)

 

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Based on not testing it is a toss up. If the engine is running great then you “could” leave it in there. If you do not know how the engine is running you could have fuel, water, low TBN, high TAN in the oil; therefore you would need to change the oil. Based on the price of the oil, I would dump it.

Based on what I remember about Castrol the ZDDP (Zinc & phosphorus are about 900 and 800 when new) and the Ca is around 3000pm when new. It does have moly and born etc so I would think it would be able to hold up based on those numbers. But TBN will drop fast since it is not a true synthetic oil. It is a group3 hydro dino cracked oil.

If you have some good filters (full flow and a by-pass) the duration of a true synthetic will last longer then an engine on a single drain.

So if you are doing extended drain (longer then manual, which I do) you need to use Amsoil oil and their filters to go “up to” some interval, not 25K in my case (based on my testing).

If you are doing the old normal oil changes then what stevej stated is fine for filters; but I would add A/c to the pix too.

In oils you need to worry about zddp, vis (for shear), TBN & Ca. The higher the numbers you want, the more it will cost you $$$$.

[dcfish]

rule of thumb by most people that i know in the business is to change the oil at least every 6 months regardless of the miles.

It is not so much the break down of the oil if any at all, it is the prolonged exposure of the interals to any acids that may build up and sit in the oil.  Prime reason why anyone that stores a vehicle (car, boat, motorcycle, etc) will always put in fresh oil before the vehicle goes to bed.

as for the oil filter,  Toyota OEM, Mobil 1, K&N, Wix, Amsoil are all superb choices.

steviej

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I am one of those people who changes there oil twice a year regardless of miles and I use synthetic oil {NEO SYNTHETIC OIL } 5w-30 in the winter and 10w-30 in the summer , When I put the 10w in I also do a drain and fill on the tranny { TOYOTA T-4 } Works out fine for me . B)

I do this on both of my cars.....

[mburnickas]

Not starting an oil war here all all, but that last NEO (5w-30) test I saw had lots of lead, about 168ppm of it (new oil). It does have ash too (about 0.64% of it). There 10w-30 has a TBN of 8.3 and 1.03% of ash. There 5w-30 has a TBN of 6.2 and it goes for the crazy price (over $10 pet qt).

For the price, a HT/HS of 3.3 and a CCS Viscosity of only around 3,100 cp, I personally do not know how they say "it last 3 to 6 times longer then than other leading brands". The low TBN scares the heck out of me. I would try one year and then test or find another oil since for the price and what you get, I would have a HARD time using a over $10 per qt that has these numbers.

[dcfish]

Not starting an oil war here all all, but that last NEO (5w-30) test I saw had lots of lead, about 168ppm of it (new oil). It does have ash too (about 0.64% of it). There 10w-30 has a TBN of 8.3 and 1.03% of ash. There 5w-30 has a TBN of 6.2 and it goes for the crazy price (over $10 pet qt).

For the price, a HT/HS of 3.3 and a CCS Viscosity of only around 3,100 cp, I personally do not know how they say "it last 3 to 6 times longer then than other leading brands". The low TBN scares the heck out of me. I would try one year and then test or find another oil since for the price and what you get, I would have a HARD time using a over $10 per qt that has these numbers.

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No war here. But I must add that I know of a gentleman in Arizona who has a 1990 LS400 with over 400,000 miles he bought the car new and immediatly switched the oil to neo and the car purrs like new with no major work done outside of regular maintenance. and he still drives it to this day. I will not respond to any feedback on this subject. To each his own......

[mburnickas]

Not starting an oil war here all all, but that last NEO (5w-30) test I saw had lots of lead, about 168ppm of it (new oil). It does have ash too (about 0.64% of it). There 10w-30 has a TBN of 8.3 and 1.03% of ash. There 5w-30 has a TBN of 6.2 and it goes for the crazy price (over $10 pet qt).

For the price, a HT/HS of 3.3 and a CCS Viscosity of only around 3,100 cp, I personally do not know how they say "it last 3 to 6 times longer then than other leading brands". The low TBN scares the heck out of me. I would try one year and then test or find another oil since for the price and what you get, I would have a HARD time using a over $10 per qt that has these numbers.

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No war here. But I must add that I know of a gentleman in Arizona who has a 1990 LS400 with over 400,000 miles he bought the car new and immediatly switched the oil to neo and the car purrs like new with no major work done outside of regular maintenance. and he still drives it to this day. I will not respond to any feedback on this subject. To each his own......

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It is not a bad oil, just overpriced I feel for what you get. For the high price and the soon intervals, you can find a cheaper oil that will perform the same. Just trying to save some $$$ for ya that is all! :) You could use Mobil, redline, and a few others here.

I did not intend to say it was a bad oil, just overpriced for what you get and if you are not doing longer drains, it seems to be a waste of "jingle".

[mugwai]

I use synthetic oil for my ES300 96. Now is the sixth month after last oil change, but I only drive 3000 miles.  Do I need to change the oil whatever the mileage it is? or I can wait till the 5000 miles? I seach on the website somebody said the synthetic oil would not break down by time, is this true?

Thanks to give me some suggestion.

←

if u us a full syn oil u will get a littel better life but it will begin to brake down and if u use a semi syn then hell yes all oil's affter a serten time will become acidic and start to destroy gaskets and seals. info from petro canada traning cours

[hankn]

isn't there a way to check for oil acidity?

In aquarium/tap water, cheap pH test kit is used easily to check for pH(acid/akaline) level.

It seem such waste to drain "supposedly better, more durable" synthetic oil in 6 months with the low Km done/non-severe driving condition.

Some one know?

[mburnickas]

isn't there a way to check for oil acidity?

In aquarium/tap water, cheap pH test kit is used easily to check for pH(acid/akaline) level.

It seem such waste to drain  "supposedly better, more durable" synthetic  oil in 6 months with the low Km done/non-severe driving condition.

Some one know?

←

A full synthetic will last much longer it is a fact. I have gone almost 3X longer and could have gone longer based on oil tests (oil tested fine). The high levels of acid, tested as TAN levels will not be an issue. Your TBN will drop with rises in TAN (they are integral) and I would watch out for slugging long before acid becomes an issue. So your good factor called TBN is a buffer to fight acid. The TAN is the level of acid in the oil. So far in my almost 10 years of testing my oils, the TAN level is about #14 out of 20 things to look at when testing. Case-in-point, do not even worry about it.

Also the oil full synthetic needs classifaction since some are really good and some are poor in level or TBN, ZDDP, Ca etc. Example, I have seen some full synthetic oils have TBN's of only 6 and some over 13. Again, price is related to higher levels. etc etc.

Yes, there is a way to test for ph but again, if you have acid problems, you will have other issues as well. So spend the $20 and get the oil tested, not drain the complete system.

PS. If you use a good synthetic oil (group 4 or 5) you can go much longer then 6 months. The problem with the full synthetics are most times they are a group 3 and they do not last long; but better then group 1 or 2 dino oils.

[hankn]

isn't there a way to check for oil acidity?

In aquarium/tap water, cheap pH test kit is used easily to check for pH(acid/akaline) level.

It seem such waste to drain  "supposedly better, more durable" synthetic  oil in 6 months with the low Km done/non-severe driving condition.

Some one know?

←

A full synthetic will last much longer it is a fact. I have gone almost 3X longer and could have gone longer based on oil tests (oil tested fine). The high levels of acid, tested as TAN levels will not be an issue. Your TBN will drop with rises in TAN (they are integral) and I would watch out for slugging long before acid becomes an issue. So your good factor called TBN is a buffer to fight acid. The TAN is the level of acid in the oil. So far in my almost 10 years of testing my oils, the TAN level is about #14 out of 20 things to look at when testing. Case-in-point, do not even worry about it.

Also the oil full synthetic needs classifaction since some are really good and some are poor in level or TBN, ZDDP, Ca etc. Example, I have seen some full synthetic oils have TBN's of only 6 and some over 13. Again, price is related to higher levels. etc etc.

Yes, there is a way to test for ph but again, if you have acid problems, you will have other issues as well. So spend the $20 and get the oil tested, not drain the complete system.

PS. If you use a good synthetic oil (group 4 or 5) you can go much longer then 6 months. The problem with the full synthetics are most times they are a group 3 and they do not last long; but better then group 1 or 2 dino oils.

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thanks for your quick reply, mburnikas.

Are u saying, under non-severe conditions, we can use "group 4-5 synthetic oil" for 18 months (3x longer- thats what u mean?) before changing the oil if the car is still under the KM specification ?

Perhaps, if we dont do the testing as u suggested(due to inconvenience etc), we can safely change syn oil say about 10-14 months if the Km is below the Km specs, rather than the apparent wasteful 6 months.

I personally have used top grade synthetic oil for 8km over 14months. The oil

look normal/new for quite awhile until the last probably 2-3 months when it starts

to turn abit black(about 20-30%). My car mechanic says the syn oil still looks good, such as waste to drain it, he says. After reading all these comments on this forum about changing oil in 6 months(!)/engine sludge, I decided to change it! But I sure would want to understand what its all about, especially wehn we pay premium for the qualities of top synethetic oil.

I noticed that you dont address the Km done. You dont really care about that due to synthetic durability ? ( for average driving km distance)

I presume Mobil 1 or Amsoil oil is grade4-5 type of oil.

thanks again. hankn

[hankn]

mburnikas,

correction, 8000 km over 14months, not 8km

hankn

[mburnickas]

Are u saying, under non-severe conditions, we can use "group 4-5 synthetic oil" for 18 months (3x longer- thats what u mean?) before changing the oil if the car is still under the KM specification ? 

If you test the oil yes, you might/should be able to go longer. I am currently going for another longer drain here (about 13K to 14K miles on my current oil). But again yes based on my past usage of oil and long duration. But if also depends on what oil you start with.

Perhaps, if we dont do the testing as u suggested (due to inconvenience etc), we can safely change syn oil say about 10-14 months if the Km is below the Km specs, rather than the apparent wasteful 6 months.

If you do not test, if you use a good oil (4 or 5) you can go 1-year easy. At least I have since 1994/1995

I personally have used top grade synthetic oil for 8km over 14months. The oil

look normal/new for quite awhile until the last probably 2-3 months when it starts

to turn abit black(about 20-30%). My car mechanic says the syn oil still looks good, such as waste to drain it, he says. After reading all these comments on this forum about changing oil in 6 months(!)/engine sludge, I decided to change it! But I sure would want to understand what its all about, especially wehn we pay premium for the qualities of top synethetic oil.

It seems that people are scared of the sludge deal; which I have address ways to check for it. Even if you are going 6-month intervals, you still could have sludge in the oil. To find out if you have it, you need to do an oil test ($20 to $25) and look at some areas.

I noticed that you dont address the Km done. You dont really care about that due to synthetic durability ? ( for average driving km distance)

In my 98 ES, based on past usage and tests I should be able to run a MAX of 17,000 miles (27.3 km) in 1-year in my ES using the oil I do. I bet 100 to 1 that test comes back ok except for 1 area, TBN; which will be lower then I like. I could go longer if I used there better oil.

I presume Mobil 1 or Amsoil oil is grade4-5 type of oil.

No, Amsoil has only 1 group 3 oil; there XL-7500. The rest are group 4 and 5. Mobil has some group 3 oils so be careful. You need to look at how they word it, synthetic, full synthetic etc. Then do some homework. You can have a group 4 but be low in ZDDP, Ca and TBN.

[Lexusfreak]

Overall, I still feel the Amsoil (ASL) 5W 30 is the best value in a long drain interval. The 0W30 was getting up there in price all things considered so I stuck with the ASL which is a good grade '4' I think you said mburn? B) :)

So far so good & even got a slight bump in fuel economy since I switched from Mobil 1 to the Amsoil. ;)

[mburnickas]

Overall, I still feel the Amsoil (ASL) 5W 30 is the best value in a long drain interval.  The 0W30 was getting up there in price all things considered so I stuck with the ASL which is a good grade '4' I think you said mburn?   B)    :)  

So far so good & even got a slight bump in fuel economy since I switched from Mobil 1 to the Amsoil.   ;)

 

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Yes, there ASL is cheaper and works very well. The only thing there Series 3000 5-w30 is it will shear less and should retain better ZDDP etc.

[Lexusfreak]

Overall, I still feel the Amsoil (ASL) 5W 30 is the best value in a long drain interval.  The 0W30 was getting up there in price all things considered so I stuck with the ASL which is a good grade '4' I think you said mburn?   B)    :)  

So far so good & even got a slight bump in fuel economy since I switched from Mobil 1 to the Amsoil.   ;)

 

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Yes, there ASL is cheaper and works very well. The only thing there Series 3000 5-w30 is it will shear less and should retain better ZDDP etc.

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But for $2.50+ extra per qt & I change the ASL 3 times a year along with the Amsoil oil filter, is it worth it? B)

[mburnickas]

But for $2.50+ extra per qt & I change the ASL 3 times a year along with the Amsoil oil filter, is it worth it?   B)

 

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So it will add another $11 for 1-year (5 qt sys) with better numbers? I think so but I still use the asl for another 8 months......:)

I am going to try it after this 13K+ mile run....

Also why do you change 3 times per year???

[Lexusfreak]

But for $2.50+ extra per qt & I change the ASL 3 times a year along with the Amsoil oil filter, is it worth it?   B)

 

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So it will add another $11 for 1-year (5 qt sys) with better numbers? I think so but I still use the asl for another 8 months......:)

I am going to try it after this 13K+ mile run....

Also why do you change 3 times per year???

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I'm considering only twice (every 6 months both oil & filter change). I guess my 3 Amsoil oil & filter changes are overkill huh? My Dad is only doing it twice a year with Amsoil on his 2002 Buick Century......perhaps I should follow considering it's good for 1 year or 25,000 miles. Just concerned about the gelling & I have the Lexus extended warranty. ;)

[Scrub Hunter]

Time wont break down synthetic oils. I know because I put very few miles on my spare vehicles but rarely have to change the oil, even after years. The main thing is to not put junk in there like LubeControl or CD2 type products which are solvents and will degrade the oil. If you have straight synthetic oil, it will last at least 5k miles regardless of the time. I'm talking years not decades as I have no info on this. Hope this was helpful.