nc211 Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Gang, as some of you know, I've been struggling for a few weeks trying to get my new control arms put on. Two weekends ago I attempted the project, but could not get the bolts to come loose. I decided to bargain with my local mechanic for some free computer work and $300 in exchange he do them at his house shop. That also included installing 3 new struts. Well, he was going to do it this weekend, but called me and said it would be more like $1,200. I said forget it. If I can just get those bolts to come loose, I would be able to do this myself. So, I need advice yet again from the lords of the boards on recommendations for the proper tools to get these dang bolts loose. I was thinking of buying an air compressor and an air wrench. But, I don't know what ones to get. I see sears has a craftsman air compressor for $179. It's 3hp, 150 psi. I've seen some air wrenches, but the max torque I've seen them rated at is 70 pounds. I would not think that would be enough. How do the pro's do this? Any suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated! It drive me crazy having that vibration and clunking, and knowing I've got all new oem parts in the trunk. But just can't get the old ones off. For $1,200, I'd rather buy the tools necessary and keep them forever for much cheaper. Lexls, got any suggestions amigo? Thanks all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryp Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 The service manual has no special instructions for the control arm bolts other than "remove 2 bolts" so it appears you just need to persuade them. You could buy a compressor and impact wrench, or use a 1/2 inch drive socket and a breaker bar. I've never seen a bolt able to stand up to the torque you can apply through the additional leverage. If need be you can also add some steel pipe to gain further leverage - "with a long enough lever i could move the world" (Archimedes?) For an impact wrench you need one with a lot of torque in reverse. Mine has 600 ft lbs in reverse (got from home depot). But i'd try the 1/2 in drive and breaker bar and save yourself hundreds of $$$$ (assuming you don't already have compressor). :D Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nc211 Posted May 5, 2005 Author Share Posted May 5, 2005 I've got the impact wrench, but the space you have to work with on these sob's is very tight "uppers". Just found out a friend has a 4hp air compressor I can borrow. I'm gonna buy the air wrench and a breaker bar. If that doesn't do it, then I'm gonna flip! :cries: There is no way I'm investing another $1,200 into that car. If push comes to shove, ya'll might see me selling a lot of brand new, unused suspension parts and a 95 LS400. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Econ Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 I just replaced my upper control arm this weekend and used a 1/2" drive breaker bar. If you don't have one, I highly advise you go get one, it's definitely worth the money (esp. in situations like this). If you can't get a bolt loose, try worrying it - alternate between tightening and loosening the bolt. That's worked wonders on some nuts/bolts that I thought I would never get loose. It's definitely a tight space to use an impact wrench in - don't strip the bolt! Also, there are body mounts where the bolts sink into. It would be a -real- pain to get to them, I'm sure, but it's better than being forced to do it b/c you don't have a head on the bolt anymore. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadecuir Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Did you remove the shock/spring assy first? I have a '90 LS. and following the directions in the manual, once the shocks are out of the way, there was all sorts of room. I used my torque wrench, about 20" long, and a little WD-40 on the threads, and they came loose quite easily. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexls Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 The impact wrench should be able to take off just about any bolt. You should also get an angled impact socket joint and extensions for it. A breaker bar is good for times when you can't use the impact gear. Good luck, I know what you're going though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachocco1 Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 If you do not remove the shock, there won't be much room. I left it in place and used and 3 or 4 inch extention through the shock springs. I attached my ratchet and breaker bar. Ok it is not a breaker bar, it is a 4 foot piece of galvanized pipe I got from Home Depot for 3 dollars. It makes all the difference on the tough bolts. PS. How did your diffy bushing replacement go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jzz30 Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 you know what i use if there is a bolt i cant man handle lol. i just get a jack to do the work with a 1/2 inch drive breaker bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbarhorst2 Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 I had to remove mine on my SC when I changed the shocks. The air gun will not work. Use a 1/2" breaker bar with a piece of pipe on the end to gain leverage. Slowly add pressure until it moves. You'll be amazed at how difficult (and how easy) it is. Don't rush it. Quick hard jerks will not get you there faster. Apply steady increasing pressure until it starts to move. It really works. The pipe I used was 3 to 4 feet long. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UCF3 Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 In my opinion, getting the right tools would be essential. Using Long wrenches from Snap on and Matco Tools should do the trick. I'm also going to recommend some BG products BG Product Distributors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UCF3 Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 Have you found a shop where you can use thier lift. That will potentially help you the most? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nc211 Posted May 9, 2005 Author Share Posted May 9, 2005 Lords of the Boards!! Thanks guys!! I am going to attempt all the repairs again this coming weekend. I live in Raleigh, and all my shop tools are down in Wilmington at my buddy's house. He has a nice, flat garage that I use. I have not found a shop that will let me use their lift "insurance reasons". And I can't find a mechanic who doesn't see the Lexus badge and doesn't run to the book to quote me price + his cut. So, it's up to me. I have a hefty set of jack stands to use. Thanks for the info on the breaker bars and steel pipes, that sounds exactly what I need. I will take off 3 of the 4 struts, as the front right is a new strut. I know it's a tight fit, but I think it can be done. I am going to put the spring holders on while the car is on the ground first, that way I can use the floor jack more easily to reduce the full extention when the car is on jacks. Pachocco, I have not done the differential bushings yet either. After that last attempt, I figured I would wait until I could hit everything at once. I did find a tool that I think will work from Autozone. It's a 2 ton adjustable pully. With the holes in the crossmember, I think it will latch on from the back perfectly, and then it's just a few turns of the handle. I'll take pictures this time, got a new battery in the digital camera. I think with the breaker bar information, I might have a chance now. Although their isn't a lot of room to work on some of these, still, it's just a couple bolts. I can tell my lowers are toast! When i'm moving slowly and stomp on the brakes, I hear clunk and I can actually feel the car shifting in those bushings. I can't wait for this to be finished! Now, with the car on jacks, will this breaker bar shift the car around so much that it's dangerous on the jack stands? I usually put just one side up at a time. Should I put both sides up at the same time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadecuir Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 Lords of the Boards!! Thanks guys!! I am going to attempt all the repairs again this coming weekend. I changed upper control arm bushings a few weeks ago. I jacked up one side at a time, used a jackstand under frame, and put light pressure on the jack at the jackpoint. With three wheels on the ground, you will be much more stable, and you don't have to get "under" the car for the bulk of the work. There are only three nuts and one big bolt holding the spring/shock assy. in place. If you are replacing lowers, you'll need to remove the big lower bolt anyway. Save yourself the hassle, and remove the shocks. I took an old baseball bat and levered it under the fender shroud to push down on the lower arm/link assy. to relieve the tension on the shock-bolt. When using breaker bar extensions like you're describing, be careful to turn the bolt the correct way. It's easy to get confused when working sideways and upside-down. Righty-tighty, lefty-loosey! With 2 or 3 extra feet of leverage, it would be easy to snap even a grade-8 bolt in half! Whenever possible, use 6-point short sockets in lieu of 12 pt. or deep sockets, and minimum extension required. I replaced the lower ball-joints last week, and finished both sides in about 3 hours, taking my time about it! Good luck, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jzz30 Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 oh if you need picture guidence of the LCA replacement i did a tutorial in the tutorial section with pics! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nc211 Posted May 13, 2005 Author Share Posted May 13, 2005 jzz30, thanks for the info on the tutorial! That was an awesome post! Well gang, I'm going back in this weekend, for the 3rd and hopefully the last time "at least for this issue at hand". I've got a 2 foot, 1/2 inch breaker bar, a 150 lb torque wrench, pitman ball joint puller, tie rod popper, and a crazy looking bearing puller for the rear differential bushings. I'm ready to bust those bolts off! Got a very tall order to fill this weekend, hope it all works. Gonna change out : all control arms on all wheels, rear differential bushing mounts, outer tie rods, steering rack mounts, filter liver due to beer consumption based upon a. Joy of completetion :D , b. frustration and anger of being defeated yet again :chairshot: . Wish me luck, NC211, signing off until monday morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nc211 Posted May 13, 2005 Author Share Posted May 13, 2005 Opps, forgot the 3 new shocks going on as well. Leave it up to us Good Ole' Southern boys to hillbillie up a lexus. Driving around in a shiny ls400 with a bunch of spare parts in the trunk for a month. Hahahaha. YEEEEEE--HAAAAWWWW!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nc211 Posted May 16, 2005 Author Share Posted May 16, 2005 Update: Partial success!!! I got the fronts done...what a difference! No clunks, no front end dive, easier steering and smoother ride. It took me 12 hours of hard labor to get it done. The outer tie rods were toast!! The rubber boot and grease wasn't even there anymore, but the screw that attached to the wheel was actually bent up! We had to cut them off to get them out. I was really suprised at the condition of the control arms though, they didn't look that bad at all! Infact I've still got them. There was no sign of tearing, leaking or anything along those lines, just dirty. Oh well...I don't care, no more clunk. However, the rears are a different story. I tried my best to get those off, but the angles of attach was just too tight. Plus, I couldn't get the lower control arm bolt to budge at all, not even with a 24 inch breaker bar plus 36 inch cheater. So, looks like I'm gonna have to bite the bullet and pay a shop to take care of the rears. I've still got a vibration coming through the cabin during acceleration. I'm really thinking the struts are just shot. The back bounces around. The front doesn't anymroe, and you can really feel the difference when driving. Feels like I'm draging my butt on the concrete. Would worn out struts create that type of vibration? I notice it's not as bad when I've got a trunk load of stuff, putting more pressure down on the struts. Or do you think it's the rear strut rods allowing the wheels to push forward to far? Anywho....Thanks lords of the boards for the advice!! Victory was mine!!!! PS: My lower back is screaming in pain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadecuir Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 Update: Partial success!!! I got the fronts done...what a difference! No clunks, no front end dive, easier steering and smoother ride. It took me 12 hours of hard labor to get it done. The outer tie rods were toast!! The rubber boot and grease wasn't even there anymore, but the screw that attached to the wheel was actually bent up! We had to cut them off to get them out. I was really suprised at the condition of the control arms though, they didn't look that bad at all! Infact I've still got them. There was no sign of tearing, leaking or anything along those lines, just dirty. Oh well...I don't care, no more clunk. However, the rears are a different story. I tried my best to get those off, but the angles of attach was just too tight. Plus, I couldn't get the lower control arm bolt to budge at all, not even with a 24 inch breaker bar plus 36 inch cheater. So, looks like I'm gonna have to bite the bullet and pay a shop to take care of the rears. I've still got a vibration coming through the cabin during acceleration. I'm really thinking the struts are just shot. The back bounces around. The front doesn't anymroe, and you can really feel the difference when driving. Feels like I'm draging my butt on the concrete. Would worn out struts create that type of vibration? I notice it's not as bad when I've got a trunk load of stuff, putting more pressure down on the struts. Or do you think it's the rear strut rods allowing the wheels to push forward to far? the Anywho....Thanks lords of the boards for the advice!! Victory was mine!!!! PS: My lower back is screaming in pain. ← Were you able to replace the differential cushions yet? I'm still considering changing mine, but not for a while. I just had the front end aligned after replacing balljoints and upper control arm bushings. Toe-in was way off, like .7 to the minus, or toe-out! Handles like a dream now! I have occasional vibration at certain speeds coming from the rear, and I'm not sure if it's transmission shudder, diff bushings, or driveshaft. It's intermittent, and everything underside looks OK except the diff cushions. I can't really get a look at the driveshaft mid-joint, though. john Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nc211 Posted May 16, 2005 Author Share Posted May 16, 2005 I tried to muster up the energy to hit the diff. bushings, but simply was too dang tired. The dealer told me a while back that these rarely ever go bad, simply because the torque these cars generate isn't enough to really damage them. But, mine are torn a little, no doubt about it. I was so sore from the front work, I could barely walk around. I had to throw in the towel for another day. They are very tough to get out, but I have no doubts they can be done without having to remove the differential housing unit. I think a posilock 2 ton gear puller would work, just has to have a wide stance to get around the crossmember. I was too tired to mess with it. I proceeded to kick a few back with friends on the boat and watched the world float by. It's bikini season down here now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadecuir Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 I tried to muster up the energy to hit the diff. bushings, but simply was too dang tired. The dealer told me a while back that these rarely ever go bad, simply because the torque these cars generate isn't enough to really damage them. But, mine are torn a little, no doubt about it. I was so sore from the front work, I could barely walk around. I had to throw in the towel for another day. They are very tough to get out, but I have no doubts they can be done without having to remove the differential housing unit. I think a posilock 2 ton gear puller would work, just has to have a wide stance to get around the crossmember. I was too tired to mess with it. I proceeded to kick a few back with friends on the boat and watched the world float by. It's bikini season down here now! ← Yeah, sometimes workin' on the car is the last thing I wanna do. I determined my cushions were bad by setting the frame on stands, then putting the jack under the diff.. When I put a little pressure on it, I could see the left side bolt go way up in the hole. The right one stayed pretty close to center. There is some gap at the snubber bushing, also. My son will be home in a few days, so I'll let him do the upside-down in-the-dirt work! I'll try not to drink too many brews while I'm supervisin'. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nc211 Posted May 16, 2005 Author Share Posted May 16, 2005 Mine is the same way, left side has more wear than right. If you look at it when the gar goes into gear, I bet you'll see rips on the left side of the rubber. It definetly sags too. Once I get the dirt out of my finger nails from last weekend's chore, I'll probably hit them again. Funny to see a 31 year old guy wearing a suit with dirt crammed into his fingers. Hahaha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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