Car Makes A Hmmmmmm Noise

[93LSOwner]

My brother and I are at school right now and can't get to a mechanic at this time of the semester. I drove the car to test and see what my brother was talking about.

The car makes a hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm noise when you turn the steering wheel, both when standing still and when turning into a street or parking spot. There is also vibration with the noise, but mostly noise.

Any hints to what the problem might be..........or is the description to vague to conclude anything?

[blake918]

How's the P/S Fluid level looking?

[93LSOwner]

How's the P/S Fluid level looking?

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I looked at it last night, so couldn't make out how much was in there, or where it was located for that matter.

[1991LS400]

93LSOwner,

I had the same problem with my 1991 LS 400. I changed my power steering pump and it fixed everything. Seems like you're having the same problem, so when you get the chance, have your power steering pump looked at and replaced if necessary.

Brian Styles

[93LSOwner]

93LSOwner,

I had the same problem with my 1991 LS 400.  I changed my power steering pump and it fixed everything.  Seems like you're having the same problem, so when you get the chance, have your power steering pump looked at and replaced if necessary.

Brian Styles

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Damn.........not what I wanted to hear before going to bed.

But Thank you very much for the heads up Brian, and Blake, I'm going to tell my brother to check the fluid it tommorow before driving.

btw: how much is it going to cost to replace it, part&service by a local mechanic? Just and estimate.

[blake918]

I'm not sure what a mechanic will charge, but when the p/s pump went out on my car, it was a $1,300 job at the dealer. :o

[1991LS400]

93LSOwner,

I know, it "sucks" to hear news like that but I must be honest with you. I don't know about Blake, but I got my power steering pump AND my power steering hose replaced for less than $1,300. Then again, there's no way I would go back to the dealer to fix my car. I have a special mechanic who works on my car or I do-it-myself.

I have a few new p/s pumps in my inventory for the 90-92 LS 400's and the 93-94 LS 400's. It's not CHEAP but it's not EXPENSIVE either. If you're interested in purchasing one from me just PM me or e-mail me at bspencer2k@yahoo.com

I'm POSITIVE it's your p/s pump. Have it checked and ask around for prices on a new p/s pump then let me know and I can give you a competitive price on one, however, be sure you do NOT get a USED p/s pump from someone just because it's cheap. If at all possible, it's always best not to get used or rebuilt OEM mechanical parts for a Lexus. Our engines are strong yet, in many ways, sensitive to change.

Once you replace your p/s pump, you'll hear and feel the difference. My car's steering moves so freely without groans now, it's like a new car. My Lexi...

Brian Styles

[93LSOwner]

WOW, $1300 or close to it...........is not good.

I'll keep you guys inform when I get to a mechanic. Is it bad to drive like this, with a bad pump? It'll be 2 weeks from now before we can get someone, it will be driven about 120 miles (90 hwy) before any help.

Oh the fluid is full. So, its the pump.

[Econ]

Wait, wait, wait. The P/S fluid level is full but you're still hearing the groaning noise? That seems odd unless your pump is waaaay gone and you're notcing that it's harder to turn the steering wheel.

In regards to driving the car, it's only going to be rough on your pump, which sounds like it's already going out. The mileage isn't really the problem, it's how often you have to turn. But I wouldn't sweat it, just make sure to check your fluid levels before you go.

The pump replacement really shouldn't be all that much if you go to an independent mechanic. You're looking at about $250-$300 for parts (incl. their markup) and about 1.5-2 hours of labor. If you get the hoses replaced, you're going to probably get close to doubling that price. Some recommend replacing the hoses regardless - I don't. Depends on how conservative you want to be.

[93LSOwner]

Wait, wait, wait.  The P/S fluid level is full but you're still hearing the groaning noise?  That seems odd unless your pump is waaaay gone and you're notcing that it's harder to turn the steering wheel.

In regards to driving the car, it's only going to be rough on your pump, which sounds like it's already going out.  The mileage isn't really the problem, it's how often you have to turn.  But I wouldn't sweat it, just make sure to check your fluid levels before you go.

The pump replacement really shouldn't be all that much if you go to an independent mechanic.  You're looking at about $250-$300 for parts (incl. their markup) and about 1.5-2 hours of labor.  If you get the hoses replaced, you're going to probably get close to doubling that price.  Some recommend replacing the hoses regardless - I don't.  Depends on how conservative you want to be.

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I haven't looked at the fluid level myself, but I was informed by my brother. <_< But, I will check it myself when he comes by sometime today.

Now, THAT price seems reasonable. It has 154,000 miles as of now.

[93LSOwner]

Just some general questions:

Does a car experience these kind issues at this mileage and above (154k) only?

And if it was not a Lexus, most likely a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry would the price of repair and parts cost around the same?

These questions are leading me to our next car: preferably low mileage, newer, less maintenance cost.

Thank you for all the great posts guys. We are taking the car to a mechanic very soon to diagnosis the problem.

[blake918]

Just some general questions:

Does a car experience these kind issues at this mileage and above (154k) only?

And if it was not a Lexus, most likely a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry would the price of repair and parts cost around the same?

These questions are leading me to our next car: preferably low mileage, newer, less maintenance cost.

Thank you for all the great posts guys. We are taking the car to a mechanic very soon to diagnosis the problem.

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PS problems are very common on LS's, so I wouldn't worry about the ps system too too much on an Accord/Camry/etc. Mine lasted to about 225k. It's not the pump that costs so much it's the gd high pressure hoses. $320 for a hose is rediculous.

I'd be sure to make your brother get the car to a mechanic asap just incase it is leaking some fluid since it'll drip right on to your alternator. It's baffling that these engineers can design something like a 1UZ-FE that will last an easy 300k miles, but they put the ps pump right on top the alternator so when it leaks, it will destroy it too. lol

[Gumart1]

Yes, there are several common issues among the first generation LS, your power steering issue is one of them. It doesn't happen at any specific mileage, but usually after 100k. Regular steering fluid replacement will help prevent failure in the system. It's all about maintenance. In my opinion we have to expect these somewhat minor repairs to happen, especially in a car this age. But you have to ask yourself, before spending more money unfront on a newer car with less mileage, will it be as nice a ride as your LS? In my opinion, no. If you have a reasonable and reliable mechanic, I feel it's usually better to fix your car and keep it going strong. If you are resourceful, you can find the parts for prices as low as the Camrys and Accords. Search the forum for this. The engines in the LS last nearly forever if even somewhat maintained. What is the maintenance history on your LS? Perhaps that will influence your decision. If the rest of the car is strong, and you most likely have to repair the problem to sell the car, why not just keep it? If you are not sure about the car's condition, it's well worth it to have Lexus perform a 150 point inspection for about $100. Then you can decide. My '92 was sorely neglected yet the engine and tranny are near perfect. I have a list of repairs and plan to spend over $2k, but I'll have the knowledge of my car's condition and I can enjoy it for a long time knowing I am driving someone's $45,000 car for a lot less. I am a Lexus owner for life!

[93LSOwner]

When I bought the LS, it was very well maintained by the second owner who bought it in 1997 at 50k. I'm the third (well my parents are) owner. Now, I just don't want my parents to pay more from what they already have and will be paying very soon, with my brother going to a med. school and me continuing my undergraduate. I just want a good reliable car with least amount and cost of repair and maintenance. I will be doing mostly hwy driving. I do not have access to inexpensive parts nor have time to go the mechanic.

I had fun driving an over $45k car, at expense of my parents. I think this time I'm just going to take it easy, and try to forget the leather seats, ride, and prestige that the Lexus&Acura bought me. Maybe one day I can buy my parents the cars they bought me, except at MSRP.

[1991LS400]

If you're not a DIY kinda guy and you just want a reliable vehicle to get from point A to point B don't bother yourself with all this technical stuff.

Just get your P/S pump replaced...problem fixed.

Brian Styles

[branshew]

I do not have access to inexpensive parts nor have time to go the mechanic.

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If you can't get to a mechanic then you shouldn't be driving any car. Don't take that too harshly as it wasn't intended to be, but based on your post it sounds like you may have needed a slight reality check.

I was in school 6 years ago and I know that there can be alot going on. I took 18 credits my last semester, partied my @ss off, worked 2 jobs, and still found time to get my truck to the mechanic when it needed something done.

If your parents are footing the bill now then there's NO excuse not to go to a mechanic to get the PS pump fixed. If the problem is the PS pump and you don't get it fixed soon you'll need to add an alternator to the list of repairs.

If you are looking at something for the future of your undergraduate studies than get a used Honda civic. They are cheap to drive, and maintain. Cheap parts are everywhere (and you can slap on a Vtec sticker and add at least 50 HP). I only had used beater cars until I graduated and got a real job. Then I bought a Lexus (and a Benz, and a BMW, etc... - then I had a kid and my priorities completely changed). A Lexus in college would have been some distant dream.

As a reference point though - it sounds like you have done alot to keep the LS running. At this point you already know where the car has been and what has been done to it. Do you want to start that over with another car? You could be looking at more repairs on the new car. A Lexus isn't the cherapest car to own, drive, or maintain, but at least you know the history on yours. Chances you won't know the history on a used car to replace the LS. The LS engine/tranny should be good for 300K if you do all of the required maintenance (as you would need to do on ANY car).

As Brian mentioned, from your posts is sounds like you're not the DIY type. If that's the case then no car will be cheap to own - especially a luxury car. Most colleges have adequate transportation within the city/town that they are in. I rarely even needed to drive when I was in school so you could consider going carless and saving the $$.

[dole2000]

i got a new pump on Ebay for $81.00. My local shop ( who is a member of the forum) thinks I should replace the lines. I hope I don't have to at $300 a pop.

[93LSOwner]

I do not have access to inexpensive parts nor have time to go the mechanic.

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If you can't get to a mechanic then you shouldn't be driving any car. Don't take that too harshly as it wasn't intended to be, but based on your post it sounds like you may have needed a slight reality check.

I was in school 6 years ago and I know that there can be alot going on. I took 18 credits my last semester, partied my @ss off, worked 2 jobs, and still found time to get my truck to the mechanic when it needed something done.

If your parents are footing the bill now then there's NO excuse not to go to a mechanic to get the PS pump fixed. If the problem is the PS pump and you don't get it fixed soon you'll need to add an alternator to the list of repairs.

If you are looking at something for the future of your undergraduate studies than get a used Honda civic. They are cheap to drive, and maintain. Cheap parts are everywhere (and you can slap on a Vtec sticker and add at least 50 HP). I only had used beater cars until I graduated and got a real job. Then I bought a Lexus (and a Benz, and a BMW, etc... - then I had a kid and my priorities completely changed). A Lexus in college would have been some distant dream.

As a reference point though - it sounds like you have done alot to keep the LS running. At this point you already know where the car has been and what has been done to it. Do you want to start that over with another car? You could be looking at more repairs on the new car. A Lexus isn't the cherapest car to own, drive, or maintain, but at least you know the history on yours. Chances you won't know the history on a used car to replace the LS. The LS engine/tranny should be good for 300K if you do all of the required maintenance (as you would need to do on ANY car).

As Brian mentioned, from your posts is sounds like you're not the DIY type. If that's the case then no car will be cheap to own - especially a luxury car. Most colleges have adequate transportation within the city/town that they are in. I rarely even needed to drive when I was in school so you could consider going carless and saving the $$.

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Oh no we are getting it fixed. I'm just worried that it might be more than just a pump. The noise started 3-4 days ago and now it’s too much. The car was probably driven about less than 25 miles since the noise started. I forgot to check the fluid because I was in a rush, but the car is very cold, the needle is 1/2 way between normal and C.

Right now its school's exams week. From what my parents are paying for our school and what they think our priorities should be, they careless about getting it fixed!

But, I never said I don't have time and will not do it. ;)

I need a car, not to drive around on campus but for going back home, 90 miles.

Btw: what was your major?

update: On power steering dip stick there are two sides, one has cold(bottom) the other hot(top). The car was hot, but the fluid only reached up to cold. Meaning there isn't enough fluid........................we'll see tommorow as to what the problem is.

[93LSOwner]

The mechanic said, that there is major fluid lose due to the "rack," not pump. Total cost to fix/replace it around $630.

Parts_ $350

Labor_ $280

Total time_ 5-6 hours

:( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

[Econ]

Ahh - external/internal bypass leakage. Rack's go bad, unfortunately, and especially with the nifty do-dads on the LS rack, they're expensive and tedious to replace.

$350 for a rack from a mechanic is a little low, but not outrageously cheap. It's a little under a keystone (100%) markup, but still only about $70 more than you could probably order it yourself for.

The labor per hour is pretty in-line with what I've seen around here, and they're not kidding. It took me 10 hours to replace my rack myself, and there's still an annoying slow leak coming from somewhere that will likely require me to remove the rack and re-tighten connections. It's in there in a really awkward way.

Sorry to hear about the hit to the pocketbook. One thing that you absolutely must make sure they do if you're replacing the rack is clean the filters and (since it's on their time) swap the fluid. Nice thing is, you'll unquestionably notice a difference in steering once it's replaced and you should be good for another 150k miles.

[93LSOwner]

Ahh - external/internal bypass leakage.  Rack's go bad, unfortunately, and especially with the nifty do-dads on the LS rack, they're expensive and tedious to replace.

$350 for a rack from a mechanic is a little low, but not outrageously cheap.  It's a little under a keystone (100%) markup, but still only about $70 more than you could probably order it yourself for. 

The labor per hour is pretty in-line with what I've seen around here, and they're not kidding.  It took me 10 hours to replace my rack myself, and there's still an annoying slow leak coming from somewhere that will likely require me to remove the rack and re-tighten connections.  It's in there in a really awkward way.

Sorry to hear about the hit to the pocketbook.  One thing that you absolutely must make sure they do if you're replacing the rack is clean the filters and (since it's on their time) swap the fluid.  Nice thing is, you'll unquestionably notice a difference in steering once it's replaced and you should be good for another 150k miles.

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That sounds good. He is going to recieve the parts on Monday and start working on it then. I did not talk with the guy, my brother mentioned that he is going to rebuild or replace something, maybe you guys know what he meant!?

I'll be sure to mention that when he takes the car back, is there anything else I should tell the mechanic to do, like if there is anything else that needs to be changed or replaced so the car will not give me trouble with this issue again.

Thanks.

[RFeldes]

As econ mentioned, make sure they clean the filter/screen under the steering column behind the drivers wheel. That is what causes pressure and leaks. Also the screen in the pump. It made a world of difference in my steering.

[93LSOwner]

As econ mentioned, make sure they clean the filter/screen under the steering column behind the drivers wheel. That is what causes pressure and leaks. Also the screen in the pump. It made a world of difference in my steering.

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I'm going to make a list of things you guys mention and tell him to do them, even if he says it is going to cost a little more. <_< Get it done and fixed at one time. :)

Keep the list going..................................

Oh in the mean time, he filled the fluid up for until Monday, and the car is back to normal.........for now.

[flanker271]

I had my PS pump rebuilt by a local Toyota dealer about a year ago...at the time the Technician told me that the ps rack and high pressure line is also leaking and quoted me $1200 to fix just the rack. I refused the repair. Now a year later my ps fluid is still full and trouble free. The rack and line didn't really cause any problems at all.

[93LSOwner]

I had my PS pump rebuilt by a local Toyota dealer about a year ago...at the time the Technician  told me that the ps rack and high pressure line is also leaking and quoted me $1200 to fix just the rack.  I refused the repair.  Now a year later my ps fluid is still full and trouble free.  The rack and line didn't really cause any problems at all.

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What I told him was that the pump is most likely causing the problem before we took the car in. And he specifically stated that the pump is not causing anything and it is good.