Carnauba Or Synthetic Wax

[cpr_carpenter]

From the posts I've been reading carnauba seems to be prefer for darker colors for its depth. What is recommended for metalic white? (GS430 '01, don't know the acual paint color). Synthetic, I tend to prefer longer lasting? I plan on claying, using a prewax cleaner (which brand?), then waxing, again which brand? The paint is in pretty good condition. This is an awesome Forum.....

TIA

Hugo

[SW03ES]

I'd use a synthetic on the metallic white. You're really not going to be able to achieve a lot of depth out of it with a carnuaba.

The type of pre-wax cleaner depends on the condition of the paint. I'd reccomend Klasse AIO followed by either Klasse SG or the Zaino line of sealants.

[brucelee]

Klasse All in One Followed by Klasse Sealant.

I'd use a synthetic on the metallic white. You're really not going to be able to achieve a lot of depth out of it with a carnuaba.

The type of pre-wax cleaner depends on the condition of the paint. I'd reccomend Klasse AIO followed by either Klasse SG or the Zaino line of sealants.

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[HRP]

I'm a Zaino Zealot. Suggest the new Z-2 PRO plus ZFX on a well prepped surface. The new Z-2 Pro is supposed to give at least 6 mos of protection; most waxes last only a few weeks. You can top Zaino (or Klasse) with Carnuba, which adds depth, especially to darker colors. Check out www.autopia.org and hit interact for what the obcessive compulsive detailers use as well as their opinions on any of these products. There always seems to be a running debate between Zaino and Klasse advocates on that website.

[SW03ES]

Thats kind of a misnomer, I know many people who don't get 6 months out of zaino and many people that do get 6 mos out of carnuabas. SOME carnuabas last only a few weeks, but to say that all do is simply not accurate. There are many Carnuabas that last a significant amount of time, Collinite 476, Collinite Insulator Wax, Meguiars #16 etc.

ON THE WHOLE the Zaino will last longer than carnuaba, but the tradeoff is the ability to polish and hide swirls underneath, the look, and the complications of use.

[HRP]

Thats kind of a misnomer, I know many people who don't get 6 months out of zaino and many people that do get 6 mos out of carnuabas. SOME carnuabas last only a few weeks, but to say that all do is simply not accurate. There are many Carnuabas that last a significant amount of time, Collinite 476, Collinite Insulator Wax, Meguiars #16 etc.

ON THE WHOLE the Zaino will last longer than carnuaba, but the tradeoff is the ability to polish and hide swirls underneath, the look, and the complications of use.

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To offer a respectful dissenting view from SWO3ES' above, if the surface is properly prepped, there should be no swirls. And if you have a garaged show car, I'd definitely carnuba over a sealant. Remember, each of us has our preferences and favorites. The important thing is for you to achieve the look you like and make your own judgements. SWO3ES and I, along with plenty of others, will try to present you with useful information, hopefully backed up with appropriate and accurate references to support our views. Plus, I'll bet you can find someone on one of these discussion groups who lives very near you and would be glad to supply you with enough product to do your car. BTW, Eckler's Corvette in Titusville, Fla. (just outside of Orlando) stocks Zaino products. If you choose Zaino, be sure to get the new Z-2 PRO.

Re: appearance & durability of waxes and sealants, suggest you check this link:

http://autopia.org/kb/index.php?page=index_v2&id=25&c=16

even though the author is a Klasse advocate. But this article was written before the new Z-2 PRO was introduced.

Here is the current Klasse vs Zaino thread (from today):

http://autopia.org/kb/index.php?page=index_v2&id=25&c=16

Happy detailing!!

[SW03ES]

If you'll look over my posts again you'll see that I reccomended Zaino to him already. You're not presenting a dissenting view from mine, I stated that the statement that all carnuabas last only a few weeks is false and that Zaino will not always last 6 months, these are facts not opinions. Longevity is almost completely contingient on the environment, washing procedures etc. Zaino will usually last longer than a carnuaba but thats not always the case.

It is true that proper prep SHOULD include a swirl free exterior, but its oftentimes impossible to achieve a 100% swirl free exterior on a daily driver, especially if its a dark color. I take extremely good care of my car and it isn't 100% swirl free, maybe 90%. Nobody else on earth can see them but I can. Working constantly to remove all swirls does two things, it eats up your time and it constantly removes paint. 5,6,7 years down the line when the clearcoat starts to fail that will suddenly become a problem.

So, thats why I don't use Zaino or Klasse, I can get the paint to a good looking place without overly risking the clearcoat depth then I can hide whatever minor is left with a final polish and a carnuaba that makes it look perfect. When its nice I enjoy waxing so I usually throw on another coat of something every week or two. I have EX-P sealant x2 and Meg's #16 on my car for 6 weeks now and its holding up fine. Its supposed to be fine this week I'll probably throw on another coat of #16.

That said, if I had a silver car (which my next one will be) I'd definately use Zaino as its an excellent product. A miracle product though, or the best product its not. There are too many great products out there to call any product the best as they all have good and bad points, Zaino's no different.

[KY350]

CPR - Lexus paint is very good and considering that your GS is a young 2001 model, I assume the paint is in quite good condition. Therefore, you could use either a natural or synthetic wax and unless you are a meticulous detailer, you probably won't notice the difference between natural and synthetic.

The only way for you to decide what is best for your car is to rest the may good recommended products on the market and that would take you years to complete. Just as you think that your testing is complete and you have a winner, the manufacturers release another "better" wax, so its back to the drawing board, testing again.

So my advice is just pick one that you like, and try it out - I'm sure you will be happy with the results irrespective of what you choose.

[VBdenny]

I've used both. Carnuba outlasts synthetics and then I don't have to wax as often. I think it looks great on my pearl white, and it has incredible depth (in my opinion of course).

[SW03ES]

Again though, the statement "carnuaba outlasts synthetic" is hardly true across the board, in fact its *USUALLY* the opposite. Synthetics were designed as a longer tern solution in car care. Fact of the matter is you can't really say which product will last longer it all depends on the prepwork done, the environment, the continued maintenance, the application of booster products like QDs etc. I've used synthetics that had outstanding durability and lousy durability, and carnuabas that are the same.

[HRP]

While I'll pit Zaino against any other sealant or wax out there for both appearance and durability, I still suggest you research and/or even ask your question on the interact discussion boards of a professional detailing site. You obviously plan on spending hours and lots of effort in your detail. This degree of investment deserves research easily obtained sitting at your computer. The climate in Jacksonville, Florida, as well as the lovebugs and other problems unique to that area may require different product applications which are more familiar to detailers (novice, amateur, and professional) actually in the area. Each geographical area is different, but product failures seem to be more commonly reported from Florida. It would really be a shame and very discouraging to do the proper intensive preparation and then top it with less than the best sealant/wax for your "neck of the woods". I suggest that you post your question on www.autopia.org (a site devoted primarily to automobile detailing for both the information and opinions). Time investment for that posting, essentially ziltch; potential for useful information, great. If you do, please share and let all of us know your decision and the results. My suggesting Autopia is not meant to disparage this board, but to obtain confirmation that what you are finding here is the straight skinny since Autopia is almost strictly aimed at detailing while this site is primarily for Lexus owners and covers a very wide range of topics. BTW, I traveled to Florida (Orlando) last May and prior to the trip did use Zaino Z-2 plus ZFX and topped it with carnuba on my silver 02 LS430. Having lived in Orange Park for a year while in the Navy, I wanted all the protection possible from those *&^%$#$%^&* lovebugs.

[cpr_carpenter]

HRP, That a great suggestion, however I've already decided on using Klasse AIO & Klasse sealant (bought it already). However, you are right about love bugs here in FL. I will ask about what preventive measures to take for these pesky bus...thx

[TOGWT]

I'd use a synthetic on the metallic white. You're really not going to be able to achieve a lot of depth out of it with a carnuaba.

The type of pre-wax cleaner depends on the condition of the paint. I'd reccomend Klasse AIO followed by either Klasse SG or the Zaino line of sealants.

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Optically Perfect Shine:

An optically perfect shine is the result of a clean prepared paint surface. The contributing factors:

a)Reflectivity – that comes from a clean and level surface

b)Gloss-a surface shine and its ability to reflect light with a minimum of distortion or light diffusion

c)Optical depth-comes from an applied product that is two-dimensional, so that light is reflected from both a high and low source (i.e. a Carnauba waxes ‘egg-grate’ type structure) as opposed to a polymer elongated and flat ‘chain-link’ type mesh

d)Transparency-or clarity of the applied product, which will enable all the above components to be clearly visible

e)Optimising light refraction -apply product in ‘direction of airflow’, horizontal surfaces hood to trunk, vertical surfaces front to back. This application technique affects the paints optical properties by optimising light refraction and the reflectivity of the bodylines and contours of the vehicle

Unfortunately white paint by its nature has very little optical reflectivity or depth so you will not accomplish a depth of shine with white paint as you would with darker colours (i.e. black). I’d go with a polymer sealant.

JonM

[TOGWT]

HRP,  That a great suggestion, however I've already decided on using Klasse AIO & Klasse sealant (bought it already).  However, you are right about love bugs here in FL.  I will ask about what preventive measures to take for these pesky bus...thx

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cpr_carpender from Jacksonville Florida, hello from Ponte Vedra Beach Florida (some 10+ miles apart )

The klasse twins as they are known on Autopia is an excellent choice for our weather. If you'd like a methodology just ask

Suggest 2 x AIO (to ensure complete coverage) and 3 x SG (4 x on the 'lower' front half of the vehicle)

As an added precaution I’d add a coat of Carnauba wax the for the express purpose of applying a renewable protective coating to automotive paint is to act as a sacrificial barrier against air borne contaminants; this barrier can be reapplied when the wax has eroded.

FWIW- my take on Carnauba wax (with an emphasis on high temerature encountered) through dissipation Carnauba wax are limited in their protecting capabilities. More specifically, these wax compounds have a melting point of 180 degree. F. When the temperature of the painted surface exceeds the melting point of the compound applied thereon, the waxes will melt from a hard wax to oil. When this occurs, the waxes are easily washed off and, more importantly, will pick up dust particles and other air pollutants.

In actual practice, the temperature frequently leads to melting of the wax compounds (which also contains solvents and sometime Beeswax (130oF low melting points). For example, painted surfaces exposed to ambient temperatures of 80oF in direct sunlight, will rise up to a temperature of 185degree F or more.

Consequently, the extremely fine film of wax covering the peaks of the painted surface is very quickly dissipated, leaving them exposed to the elements to become oxidized. If the paint finishes contain silver or aluminium metallic particles, then the wax coatings would provide little or no protection, since the metallic particles retain more heat and, therefore, rapidly destroy the protection of the waxes.

JonM

[VBdenny]

I use the Collinite 845 Insulator Wax and have never found anything that has better durability. It was originally developed for high tension power lines. Of course any wax is only as good as the prep. Bugs you say? most can be washed off with the hose only. Read about it at Collinite.com