Questions For Toyota Historians...

[MikeP]

I was curious to know if Toyota introduced the Celsior and LS400 around the same time, or did Toyota sell the Celsior for years prior to the creation of Lexus. It would be interesting to know if Toyota had Lexus in mind when the Celsior was originally being designed and engineered.

Mike

[jvcn]

From what I've read, the LS400 was exclusively designed for the US market at first. The goal in the mid 80s was to target the US luxury car buyer, who was increasingly the largest factor in world demand for high end vehicles. Managers at Toyota even objected to creating a separate brand to sell the product as they wanted it to be a Toyota car they could sell. The Celsior came later.

I believe that today, 80% of Toyota's profits (not sales) come from the US.

Insiders with more info may correct me if wrong.

[SW03ES]

The LS/Celsior was designed for the American luxury buyer and the American highway system specifically and the Celsior came out at the same time.

[MikeP]

Thanks for the responses. Even with Toyota/Celsior badges, I would have chosen it over other luxury brands. But knowing the history behind the LS and that it was specifically designed to be a Lexus, quiets those detractors that say it is "just a rebadged Toyota". The Celsior is actually a rebadged Lexus. Of course "A rose by any other name....."

Mike

[VBdenny]

I read in Car & Driver or some other car mag that Toyota was introducing Lexus in Japan. Am I right in assuming that they have been marketing the LS under the Toyota Celsior all this time?

[GRAND_LS 4]

I read in Car & Driver or some other car mag that Toyota was introducing Lexus in Japan.  Am I right in assuming that they have been marketing the LS under the Toyota Celsior all this time?

←

Yup, I think 2004 was the first year for Lexus in Japan.

[GSsoldier]

on this topic... kinda.... does anyone know where to get a celsoir badge for cheap? ebay doesnt have it and this one website that has it has it for 500 bucks... a little much i think for a badge

[monarch]

But knowing the history behind the LS and that it was specifically designed to be a Lexus, quiets those detractors that say it is "just a rebadged Toyota".

←

Well mechanically a Lexus IS a mostly a rebadged Toyota. Just like a Scion is a mostly a rebadged Toyota Echo. Most of the differences are in body styling and interior furnishings.

But even there a considerable number of parts carryover. Lexus does tend to use more durable

paints.

Same deal at Infiniti. In fact, at a recent car show I noted the front door panel of the $55,000

Infiniti QX56 was absolutely identical to a base model $22,000 Nissan Titan pickup except for a few wood inserts and small details like that.

[bartkat]

Celsior® Celsior is a storage solution for organs after removal from the donor and before transplantation into the recipient.

Yech! Where do they get these names?

[bartkat]

http://english.auto.vl.ru/catalog/toyota/celsior/

[SW03ES]

But knowing the history behind the LS and that it was specifically designed to be a Lexus, quiets those detractors that say it is "just a rebadged Toyota".

←

Well mechanically a Lexus IS a mostly a rebadged Toyota. Just like a Scion is a mostly a rebadged Toyota Echo. Most of the differences are in body styling and interior furnishings.

But even there a considerable number of parts carryover. Lexus does tend to use more durable

paints.

Same deal at Infiniti. In fact, at a recent car show I noted the front door panel of the $55,000

Infiniti QX56 was absolutely identical to a base model $22,000 Nissan Titan pickup except for a few wood inserts and small details like that.

←

Thats not true of the LS at all. What American Lexus does the LS share any substantial parts with? They share some things like filters and belts with the V8 Toyota trucks, some switchgear like the cruise control stalks but thats all. The LS, GS, SC, and IS are almost entirely Lexus specific. I think the LS 95-00 shares a steering wheel rim design with the Land Cruiser. The similarities are they are designed and built by the same company so everything has a similar look but they don't just re-use and carry over parts.

Even when you get into the ES, RX, and GX where you get closer to their Toyota platform mates they don't share any visible parts like door panels or body panels.

I think the only Lexus you could make that argument for is the LX.

[jzz30]

toyota is introducing lexus in japan in 2005 this was done to give more of an image to combat othe"names" like bimmer merc, the list goes on. so by now alot of "lexuses" are running around. and i dont know about this 80% profits from the US market. when the 4th gen LS came out in japan there was a 3-4 month waiting list, and most people couldnt get the car with in the end of the year release in 2000.

[monarch]

Even when you get into the ES, RX, and GX where you get closer to their Toyota platform mates they don't share any visible parts like door panels or body panels.

←

I guess different people notice different things. Like look at the padded dash of your Dad's LS430,

and then your ES300. Feel it, pound on it. Yep it's the same material on both cars. Now feel and pound the dash of a 2002 on up Camry. Yep same dash material. Standardized across many Toyota / Lexus models

I agree with you the first generation LS was pretty unique, sharing little with existing

Toyotas at the time

[SW03ES]

But those are materials not parts. It stands to reason that they would use the same materials throughout the line as its the same company. Most of the dash on my dad's LS430 is leather but I know what you mean.

I've driven a lot of the Toyota models and the dash quality is DEFINATELY not the same as on the Lexus models. It is on the higher line cars like the Avalon (and I can't remember the Camry but I'll pound one this week when my fiance's Prius goes in) but the plastics on our Prius are terribly cheap. Same way with the Corollas, the 4 Runner, the trucks and the Sequoia. They all definately do not use the same dash material.

Lexus actually changed their dash material in 2001. The dash of the LS430 and my ES is very different from the LS400s and even the current GS.

Lexuses are rebadged Toyotas in the sense that they are made by the same company, not in the way people mean it when they say that. People who say "Lexus is just a rebadged Toyota" think an LS is an Avalon with an L and thats just simply not true of any Lexus vehicle, save maybe the LX.