Rx300 Auto Transmission Fluid, When to change?

daxterec · September 7, 2004

Could any one advsie me on the recommended mileage or period to change the auto trans fluid of my RX300? Bought it new July2002. Manual says no change unless used under heavy duty, so rather confused?

RX in NC · September 7, 2004

If you research the consistent problems that have been documented with the RX transmissions, you'll realize that if you opt to follow the Owners Manual and NOT change your transmission fluid during the life of your vehicle, you'll be rolling the dice and playing with fire.

To be safe, change your transmission fluid every 30,000 miles. Use only Toyota Type T-IV transmission fluid - don't let anyone else talk you into using a "better" or "superior generic" fluid, regardless of who they are or what they say.

You can easily do this yourself. You'll need four quarts of fluid, a 10 millimeter Allen wrench to remove the drain plug on the transmission casing, and a small funnel to refill the new fluid (which is done through the "check transmission fluid" tube in the engine compartment. Once your old fluid is drained, re-install the drain plug and start with three quarts of new fluid through the funnel into the tube. Check your dipstick, and when it's all said and done, you will have used just under four quarts of new fluid.

Don't pay your Lexus dealership $130 to do this $20 job. If you can jack up your front end and properly support it, you can easily do this yourself, do it right, and ensure that the correct fluid is the only component that ever goes into your RX transmission. And that's absolutely crucial if you value your automatic transmission.

rbrown2769 · September 12, 2004

I just replaced the transmission in my 99 RX300 and I had my fluid changed at 75,000 mile service interval. It failed at about 78,000. Once the fluid were worn, it would not move. So I would definitely change the fluid regularly at least every 30k as menitioned above.

monarch · September 12, 2004

Everything in car care comes down to a matter of risk. If your goal is to minimize the risk of transmission failure then drain and refill the transmission oil pan every 15,000 miles. And use nothing but the factory original Toyota Type T-IV fluid which is available at Toyota dealers in 1 quart bottles for about $3.80 each. Get 3 bottles.

The procedure you use also involves risk. The risk free way to change the fluid is to

drive the car at least 15 miles or 15 minutes, preferably on city streets then check the fluid level to make sure it is at or near the HOT mark on the dipstick. This establishes whether or not the transmission was properly filled to begin with. Next, drain the fluid for at least an hour or overnight then measure the amount drained and pour back an identical amount. Start engine and slowly shift the transmission through all gears, ending in Park, while the car is stationary and the fluid level should be in the cold range or between the cold and hot range. Next, drive at least 15 miles or 15 minutes then check the fluid level again to make sure it is at or near (but not over) the HOT range marks on the dipstick.

lenore · October 1, 2004

would definetly suggest 15k miles intervals or every year which ever comes first to save your transmisson. I just lost mine and the fluid was changed every 30k. It cost $4300. The fluid was always black and smelled bad. Also make sure it is type IV toyota fluid. I suspect poor cooling and lack of design in the failures I have heard about. Also most failures are on the AWD RX300 from my exposure to Lexus mechanics.

BadBrad · October 2, 2004

I just did this job this p.m. It is easier than changing oil. It's so easy that no owner should ever have a wrecked tranny.

Follow the directions that RX in NC provided with the exception that there is NO NEED to raise your vehicle with a jack. Use a catch pan with a wide opening - when this fluid is warm (about an hour after driving) it gushes out of the drain hole for about 2 minutes. Let it sit and drip for 30 to 60 minutes. On my AWD model slightly more than 4 quarts came out. According to the owner's manual the FWD version will drain about 3.5 quarts. The drain plug is easily accessible from under the front driver's side. Lexus dealer wanted 30% more $ for the fluid than the Toyota dealer 100 yards down the street. Yeah - sure Lexus cares about customer service! :chairshot:

What - are they on crack? Make me walk down the street - my a$$!

riwyle · October 2, 2004

would definetly suggest 15k miles intervals or every year which ever comes first to save your transmisson. I just lost mine and the fluid was changed every 30k. It cost $4300. The fluid was always black and smelled bad. Also make sure it is type IV toyota fluid.

What was the mileage when the transmission failed?

Was the fluid black and odorous on the first 15k change and each susequent fluid change?

What specific component(s) failed in the transmission?

Rx300_coach · October 2, 2004

My 02' Rx300 is at 35000km right now...the tranny fluids haven't been changed to my knowledge as of yet. Do you guys reccomend i should change it soon to prevent transmission damage? i don't want my transmission to just die on me when it hits 100 000km:( as i expect to keep this car for a long long time!

BadBrad · October 2, 2004

Change it! - It is too easy a task to avoid. It's so easy take your car to a local elementary school and have the 4th grade class do it for you. And if you really want to clean out the system do it twice in a month so as to really dilute the dirty stuff left after you open the plug.

KevinK · October 3, 2004

If you research the consistent problems that have been documented with the RX transmissions, you'll realize that if you opt to follow the Owners Manual and NOT change your transmission fluid during the life of your vehicle, you'll be rolling the dice and playing with fire.
To be safe, change your transmission fluid every 30,000 miles. Use only Toyota Type T-IV transmission fluid - don't let anyone else talk you into using a "better" or "superior generic" fluid, regardless of who they are or what they say.

You can easily do this yourself. You'll need four quarts of fluid, a 10 millimeter Allen wrench to remove the drain plug on the transmission casing, and a small funnel to refill the new fluid (which is done through the "check transmission fluid" tube in the engine compartment. Once your old fluid is drained, re-install the drain plug and start with three quarts of new fluid through the funnel into the tube. Check your dipstick, and when it's all said and done, you will have used just under four quarts of new fluid.

Don't pay your Lexus dealership $130 to do this $20 job. If you can jack up your front end and properly support it, you can easily do this yourself, do it right, and ensure that the correct fluid is the only component that ever goes into your RX transmission. And that's absolutely crucial if you value your automatic transmission.

Thanks a lot, guys. I just changed my 2002 rx300 awd (with 35k) atf. The old atf was dark black and a little thick. Very glad that I changed it. It drained out about 4.1 qt in cold. I only have 4 qts. The level is just above the cold mark when engine is idling.

Do I need to add 0.1 qt? :cheers:

slowtan · October 4, 2004

I hate to piggyback my question but when I went to check my transmission fluid the end of my dipstick is bent? Is this normal for this vehicle? All other vehicles of mine, the transmission dipstick is straight like the oil dipstick ..

bluestu · October 4, 2004

I have news for everyone again. Your RX300 transmission holds around 16 quarts of fluid. If you don't have it completely flushed at least every 30,000 miles, then your transmission is going to fail. Lexus and Toyota dealers only do a drain and fill which is useless. They're draining about 1/4 of the dirty transmission fluid and replacing it with new fluid. They will tell you that if you do this often enough that eventually all the dirty fluid will be replaced with clean fluid. That makes about as much sense as the Iraq War.

RX in NC · October 4, 2004

Transmission drain-and-fills are NOT useless. Done frequently enough, they will help to preserve the life of most automatic transmissions. Granted, a complete flush-and-refill is superior, but it must be precisely performed by a shop with the expertise and the tools (particularly for these lousy RX transmissions that demand nothing but Toyota Type T-IV fluid enter the transmission casing). If you screw up a complete flush-and-refill by contaminating the transmission, your RX is going to wind up far worse off than if you'd just done a simple drain-and-fill.

Folks who perform a typical drain-and-fill every 15,000 to 30,000 miles will get a longer lifespan from their RX transmission than folks who decide to follow the owners manual and never change the fluid. It is inexpensive, it is easy to do, and knowing what we know about the poor track record of the RX transmission, it is time well spent.

KevinK · October 4, 2004

I have news for everyone again. Your RX300 transmission holds around 16 quarts of fluid. If you don't have it completely flushed at least every 30,000 miles, then your transmission is going to fail. Lexus and Toyota dealers only do a drain and fill which is useless. They're draining about 1/4 of the dirty transmission fluid and replacing it with new fluid. They will tell you that if you do this often enough that eventually all the dirty fluid will be replaced with clean fluid. That makes about as much sense as the Iraq War.

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16 qts!? Are you sure? The old fluid in my car is black and a little thick. 4 qts of new fluid is not enough then. I don't want to flush it (bcs I heard bad news on flushing). I may need to drain it in a few days again. Right?

bluestu · October 4, 2004

16 qts!? Are you sure? The old fluid in my car is black and a little thick. 4 qts of new fluid is not enough then. I don't want to flush it (bcs I heard bad news on flushing). I may need to drain it in a few days again. Right?

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I'm positively sure. I just had mine flushed about a month ago and the fluid looks like new, pinkish in color. I did some pretty extensive research on this matter and found that the only way to completely change the transmission fluid is to have it flushed. Not only does this completely replace the existing fluid, but also cleans the wire mesh filter inside the transmission. Make sure you replace the fluid with the right type of fluid which is clearly marked at the top of the dipstick. You should also have your differential and transfer case gear oil drained and replaced every 30k mi.

The reason your transmission fluid looks dark is because you've just been having a portion of the fluid drained out and new fluid added. The new fluid just mixes in with the dirty fluid, so your fluid just keeps getting dirtier and dirtier. Any qualified mechanic will tell you that the drain and fill performed by Lexus and Toyota is useless and a waste of money. I take my cars to a place called Mostly Toyotas and they say that they haven't had any problems with the cars they have flushed. They 100%, absolutely recommend flushing the transmission every 30kmi.

willpatt · October 5, 2004

Does anyone know what is performed at the 15k and 30k service at a Lexus dealership? (a change of fluid or a flush/fill)

BadBrad · October 6, 2004

Does anyone know what is performed at the 15k and 30k service at a Lexus dealership? (a change of fluid or a flush/fill)

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The standard procedure is drain the pan (you or your kids can do this), drop the pan, remove and hose out the screen, replace the screen, reinstall the pan, refill with 4 quarts through the dipstick tube, take your 60 bucks (maybe more). Skip the dollars part, kick your kids out of the garage and do the screen and pan if you are anal about filtration.

Some observations 5 days after I drained and refilled. Yes the dipstick has a little bend at the end. When I look at the fluid on the dipstick there is no sign of any contamination from the fluid that remained in the valve body and torque converter. Does this mean that in five days of driving none of the old fluid comingled with the 4 quarts of new? :unsure: I have a tough time believing that!

Sixteen quart dry capacity is certainly a possibility. But the automatics I've worked on in my younger car-building and drag racing days (Chrysler A727, GM TH350 and 400) took less. The 727 takes 12, the 350 takes 10, the 400 takes 11.5 (all dry capacity).

Without a service manual probably can't know the total capacity other than through peoples observations.

Is draining and refilling the pan a waste of time for 16 bucks? - Not a chance!

jgr7 · October 6, 2004

In my opinion, if you are doing regular pan oil changes ( 15-30 k) you will be fine with what ever you change in the pan. If you are towing you might want to do a total replacement. The easiest way to do this is to have someone that has the machine that you disconnect one line that is going to the trans cooler and hook up to machine , it takes the fluid coming out and puts new back in on the other side. I would never do a chemical flush on a trans, I just don't trust the shops to clean the machine good enough to guarantee that you are not getting someone Else's crap back in your transmission.

Jeff

Lexusfreak · October 6, 2004

You might want to consider a 100% fluid change....I had mine done on my 01 ES & the tranny has never shifted smoother. The car is hooked up to a machine that flushes the system completely of the old fluid (including the torque converter). As stated before, use only Toyota Type IV fluid. B)

:cheers:

ColinBarber · October 25, 2004

According to AllData, which gets it's data from Toyota/Lexus, the capacity of a 2001 RX300 AWD is:

Drain and re-fill - 4.3 qts

Total capacity - 9.67 qts

lenore · October 26, 2004

would definetly suggest 15k miles intervals or every year which ever comes first to save your transmisson. I just lost mine and the fluid was changed every 30k. It cost $4300. The fluid was always black and smelled bad. Also make sure it is type IV toyota fluid.

What was the mileage when the transmission failed?

Was the fluid black and odorous on the first 15k change and each susequent fluid change?

What specific component(s) failed in the transmission?

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I am now on my third transmission from Lexus of Roseville. The workmanship from this dealer is at best poor. The first replacement transmission I found hoses and bolts missing on the transmission to engine and vacuum lines disconnected. The Remanufactured transmission failed to work properly and would drop out of gear and almost cause rear enders in heavy traffic. Nothing like stepping on the gas and not going. After three tries at the dealership and a month of downtime they replaced the remanufactured transmission. This time the Sway bar tie rods where completely disconnected and rubbing against the brake lines and drive shafts. I have had it with Lexus service from Lexus of Roseville California. Waiting for the test results from my wife on this third transmission.the second transmission only last a few hundred miles. I highly suggest a total fluid flush instead of the transmission draining. I also would suspect because of the failures that cooling is insufficient because the cooler is in the wheel well without any proper venting. I will keep everyone posted. Lenore

riwyle · October 27, 2004

I have a 2000 rx300 FWD w/69000 mi. Mostly local and freeway driving in So Cal. I had relied on Lexus recommendation that no fluid change is necessary for my type driving, but got concerned after reading posts on this site. Therefore I drained and added fluid for the first time. The drained fluid was darker red than the new fluid, but showed no more signs of "wear" than I have seen in fluids drained from other transmissions/transaxles with similar miles. I placed some new fluid in a vial, and some of the used in another. I will crack the drain plug in a week or so to get a sample of the new mixed with the old which had remained to be able to compare them all for color and opacity. It will be interesting to see if the mixture is closer to the new or old in appearance. What I took out did not alarm me and I am not concerned about going another 40 or 50,000 before another change. I wonder what are the variables which cause the deterioration reported by some and no problems experienced by probably most RX drivers?

RX in NC · October 28, 2004

The biggest variable is probably all-wheel drive vs. front-wheel drive. Other than that, speculation could include driving habits, cold climate vs. warm climate, and frequency of T-IV fluid changes.

I like your idea of comparing samples of the changed fluid at various intervals to determine whether there will be a significant color change. Please keep us posted on what you determine.

I truly believe that at a minimum, the T-IV fluid in these RX transmissions should be changed every 30,000 miles. Some on this forum go much farther than that and believe that a complete flush should take place. In either case, it's a far cry from your owners manual which basically tells you to just check the fluid level and add when necessary. That's just foolish.

BadBrad · October 29, 2004

I have had it with Lexus service from Lexus of Roseville California. I will keep everyone posted. Lenore

Lenore,

Thanks for posting this. I live in Roseville and hadn't heard anything yet on the Roseville dealership's crappy service. Good to hear. My mom, who has owned a Lexus for 12 years swears by Fulton Ave. They even did a very cost effective job on her LS400 timing belt. I've bought two from new there and thought they were a great outfit. I basically never send a vehicle to the shop 'cuz I do most everything myself and then unload 'em as they hit 5 years. On the rare occasion (like the freeby 5k mile checkup) Fulton has done a good job.

jgr7 · October 29, 2004

This information comes from a Cadillac forum that I belong to and is authored by a GM power train engineer that helped design the Northstar power train. I know it is not Lexus but the principal on trans fluids is the same.

Trans fluid is NOT exposed to combustion byproducts and contamination like engine oil is. It is in a sealed environment and age and heat are it's only real enemies. If the fluid looks nice and red and the trans is in normal use ..i.e..not extensive towing or livery service or touring Death Valley all the time..... it is perfectly fine to just drain the pan, change the filter and refill with fresh fluid. Quit trying to re-engineer the recommended service procedures. I know the factory engineers are stupid but if they knew how to design and engineer the trans you would think they would know how to service it....and "they" think the idea of flushing a trans is the stupidest thing known to man due to the risk of outside debris and moving existing debris inside the trans to other areas during the flush. End of story.

The life expectancy of the trans friction surfaces is quite long. In the hundreds of thousands of miles. Do you imply that the trans was designed and tested without the normal heat of traffic jams and climbing hills on a hot summer day in mind...???...LOL....get real. The trans is designed to handle WAY worse conditions than that. MUCH MUCH worse than that. Idling in traffic does nothing to the trans....is cools off nicely. Climbing hills can warm it up, especially if the trans shifts a lot...but that is included in the design and testing.

Transmissions are tested in a variety of ways. One of the worst case schedules includes repeated WOT accels and up shifts to over 100 MPH....like 25,000 runs like that on a single trans with no service at all.

As I said, the trans oil is not contaminated by blow by or contaminates like engine oil is. It stays very clean and functions for a long long time. Especially the latest generation of Dextron that has a high synthetic content and excellent life characteristics. It is really a hydraulic oil and a cooling medium for the trans as well as a lube medium. If it is not contaminated it last for a very long time and replacing it is just not required.

There is a great deal of work and development that goes into service recommendations. They are not something that are just dreamed up out of the blue by some marketing type. Test vehicles are often run to DOUBLE the service intervals to validate the safety factor built into them. In addition, the latest generation of GM cars has the ability with the trans temperature sensors to evaluate the trans fluid life in the event of an extreme operating condition that might shorten the trans fluid life and cause an early change interval.

Unless there is a catastrophic event that causes the fluid to be burned or contaminated there is no need to completely drain or purge the unit at a change interval. Simply draining and refilling is sufficient. It does not compromise the service life of the friction elements at all.

If a trans fluid "purge" is required then simply unhooking one of the cooler lines and idling the unit will purge all the old oil from the unit and be much more effective than a "flush" ever could accomplish. Since the oil from the cooler line is direct oil leaving the torque converter you are getting a direct purge of the oil that is of the most concern...the oil trapped in the torque converter.

Some flush equipment "reverse flushes" the oil back wards thru the pump and lines.....sounds like a "great idea" but it is totally capable of dislodging harmless debris and flowing it into areas that can cause all sorts of problems. Whoever came up with that idea should be shot.

This debate can go on forever but I can assure you that the guys that design the units do NOT favor any sort of flushing and stand by the simple drain and refill service requirements. Flushes might work great in some circumstances...but there are many many possible pitfalls as described. The only way to avoid them is to not flush...hence the recommendation.