Suggestions To Pull Parents Over On A 90 Ls?

[93LSOwner]

"rappers" buy and put 24's on so they can "pimp they hoes"

EXACTLY!!!

NAHHH

This semster I have to go to a college where there are more female then male to about 1:3 ratio (male:female) MANN, there are so many girls it is ridiculous, seriously.

How many girls am I going to impress with a 2004 LS430 compared to an Escalade!?

:P tO aLL oF yA PlaYa HataS

[SW03ES]

See I don't need a car to impress women :D

[90LS400Lexus]

I think I saw one of these STS's today pass me on the road (heading toward me). May have been the CTS- but it looked like the car you posted. The front end is very nicely styled. It was silver. Next time I drive by our local Cadillac-Chevrolet-Isuzu dealer (Bill Gatton) I will look and see if I see one of these in person.

[TMaxxTim]

The STS and CTS are so similar in styling...how could you not like the CTS but like the STS???

[SW03ES]

The STS is much smoother and more proportioned than the CTS. The CTS is a nightmare of disjointed angles and thrown in parts bin trim that doesn't fit (rounded door handles from the Deville don't fit with the angular look) that horrible pointed rear end, the rear being so much higher than the front. Too many colors and textures and angles on the interior which doesn't have very good materials to begin with. Its just a total styling nightmare. From certain angles it looks okay, but from others it looks downright rediculous.

The STS is much more well rounded and mature, it looks consistently good and in proportion from all angles, it looks to be constructed better and seems to have better fit and finish. The interior is more ordinary which is good.

The STS and the CTS don't look any more similar to me than say a Lexus ES and a Lexus LS. Family resemblence thats all.

[SW03ES]

This is a CTS

See the sharp creases down the side with big flat spaces, the door trim and handles that look tacked on out of place, cheap ugly wheels that look way too small for the car's body, dull matte plastic window trim that again looks cheap and makes the car look tinny and poorly constructed.

This is the new STS from a similar angle.

Overall you can see the car looks much more proportioned, and much smoother overall. All the lines and body shapes seem to fit together and the doors are devoid of useless trim and have better, more proportioned, non parts bin handles. The window trim looks of higher quality and is more integrated into the door. The wheels are more expensive looking and look more proportioned to the body. The front end is smoother and the art and science theme of vertical lights and the large wedhe shaped grille and bumper valence are much better integrated into the overall car.

To me the CTS exemplified everything Cadillac did not understand about making a high quality appealing vehicle. Its ugly, at best even if you like it you have to agree its trendy and has a style that will not age well. Its poorly constructed made of typical GM garbage materials thrown together in their typical "we're making a taxicab" style. The STS seems to be an example of just how quickly non-exciting sales and terrible resale in their "renaissance" automobile (The CTS) can make them learn the lessons they need to learn. The STS is edgy and different but still universally appealing and recognizable as a Cadillac. Much better and more appealing car.

[SW03ES]

The difference in the interiors just speak for themselves:

CTS:

STS:

[blake918]

Great review on the STS and CTS, Steve! I agree with everything you said, but there's just not a chance that I'd pay about $60k for a STS(CD mag had an as tested price of $62k with all of the options-nav, magnetic ride, etc.) even the V8 model starts at 47,500. It looks good up to the driver's door; then, it's hideous to me...especially a side shot(below. It looks too low in the front.) or rear shot. I'd take a GS430 with Nav, Levinson, and 5 problems per 100 cars(I think USA Today quoted numbers like that) for $52k instead!

[SW03ES]

See I never found the GS appealing, I think the side of the STS looks very clean and sporty. The GS looks weird and misshapen to me. Plus the current GS is extremely old and most dealers aren't even currently stocking them because of nonexistant demand. We'll have to wait until we can hear more about the new 06 GS before the GS is really competition for anything currently on the market.

The question on pricing we'll have to wait and see on. One significant advantage Cadillac has over imports like BMW and Mercedes, and to a lesser degree Lexus is the ability to insanely discount their cars because of much lower destination costs due to them being built in America. The STS may sticker at $63,000 (thats loaded with all kinds of equipement the GS doesn't come with like AWD, 18 inch rims, magnetic ride control, smart entry and keyless start. Its much more fair to compare the base STS with the loaded current GS430, so around $49,000 vs $52,000) but I have a feeling the car will quickly be sold for far less than that. Plus the availiability of different cars built to different specifications will be appealing to buyers who get the runaround on option packages from BMW, Benz and Lexus. Lexus ships every car 2 or 3 ways if you want it another way you're out of luck, BMW does the same thing and Mercedes charges $1000 to custom order a car. Cadillac stockpiles their cars in warehouses strategically located throughout the country so customers can almost get any car they want within hours. Thats pretty attractive.

If this car is 3/4 as good as the press says it is (I have not read a compero it has not won) then it could signify the beginning of a big problem for foreign luxury cars much like Lexus was in the 90s. It could especially be a big problem for Lexus. Lexus doesn't have as much brand loyalty or image recognition as BMW, Mercedes or even Cadillac NOW, let alone if Cadillac can build a world class car. Lexus has been slipping, and rightfully so from what I've heard in customer dealer satisfaction rates, they've had problems with the launch of the GX470, the RX330, and now they have a tranny problem on the ES AND the LS430. This is not Lexus' finest hour. Lexus service is the most expensive in the industry, and especially now that service is FREE at BMW, Cadillac, Infiniti, Lincoln and Audi thats a real turnoff. I always thought Cadillac's "comeback" wasn't in the cards, but after reading the reviews on this car, I don't know.

Now all we have to do is wait and see how Cadillac handles the launch. They need to be stingy with inventory to create a demand, they need to be good with service to keep their dealer satisfaction rates up, they need to have made sure this car is going to be problem free all to guard resale values. It could be the greatest car on earth but they could totally !Removed! up the launch and ruin it (a'la Infiniti). We've just got to wait and see.

[90LS400Lexus]

See I never found the GS appealing, I think the side of the STS looks very clean and sporty. The GS looks weird and misshapen to me. Plus the current GS is extremely old and most dealers aren't even currently stocking them because of nonexistant demand. We'll have to wait until we can hear more about the new 06 GS before the GS is really competition for anything currently on the market.

The question on pricing we'll have to wait and see on. One significant advantage Cadillac has over imports like BMW and Mercedes, and to a lesser degree Lexus is the ability to insanely discount their cars because of much lower destination costs due to them being built in America. The STS may sticker at $63,000 (thats loaded with all kinds of equipement the GS doesn't come with like AWD, 18 inch rims, magnetic ride control, smart entry and keyless start. Its much more fair to compare the base STS with the loaded current GS430, so around $49,000 vs $52,000) but I have a feeling the car will quickly be sold for far less than that. Plus the availiability of different cars built to different specifications will be appealing to buyers who get the runaround on option packages from BMW, Benz and Lexus. Lexus ships every car 2 or 3 ways if you want it another way you're out of luck, BMW does the same thing and Mercedes charges $1000 to custom order a car. Cadillac stockpiles their cars in warehouses strategically located throughout the country so customers can almost get any car they want within hours. Thats pretty attractive.

If this car is 3/4 as good as the press says it is (I have not read a compero it has not won) then it could signify the beginning of a big problem for foreign luxury cars much like Lexus was in the 90s. It could especially be a big problem for Lexus. Lexus doesn't have as much brand loyalty or image recognition as BMW, Mercedes or even Cadillac NOW, let alone if Cadillac can build a world class car. Lexus has been slipping, and rightfully so from what I've heard in customer dealer satisfaction rates, they've had problems with the launch of the GX470, the RX330, and now they have a tranny problem on the ES AND the LS430. This is not Lexus' finest hour. Lexus service is the most expensive in the industry, and especially now that service is FREE at BMW, Cadillac, Infiniti, Lincoln and Audi thats a real turnoff. I always thought Cadillac's "comeback" wasn't in the cards, but after reading the reviews on this car, I don't know.

Now all we have to do is wait and see how Cadillac handles the launch. They need to be stingy with inventory to create a demand, they need to be good with service to keep their dealer satisfaction rates up, they need to have made sure this car is going to be problem free all to guard resale values. It could be the greatest car on earth but they could totally !Removed! up the launch and ruin it (a'la Infiniti). We've just got to wait and see.

WOW- what a difference. I really like the STS better. How about the exterior? Are they about the same? I drove by the local Cadillac dealer today and seen the CTS, but no STS- but I was going about 35 mph, so really could not tell.

I agree about the GS- My favorite GS is the first generation 93-9?. My only dislike on those is the window line on the rear or the back doors.

Not to totally change the subject (I have been known to do that :P )

I am not sure how far Lexus quality has declined since the 1990s, but I remember back in 1998, when I was considering a purchase of a new car- I had bought several new car buying guides (I also have several from the 1980s and early 1990s, as well as a few from the 70s. Anyway- I remember reading in the 1998 buying guide some discouraging news about Lexus and Toyota. On the "build quality" ratings, they complained of interior rattles on brand new Lexus GS models and some "mis-aligned" dashboard panels on the ES models. The Toyota Corolla had a statement of "steering column rattles" and one Toyota Sienna had severe under dash rattles. This was in 1998- so I hope Lexus rates better in these areas. I do not think Toyota does, because I still read complaints of rattles in the 02-04 Camry's and when I test drove a 2004 Toyota Corolla last year- I was disappointed of the instrument panel "ticks" and "pops" it had at only 11K miles. The Toyota Corolla in 1989 up thru 1997 was nothing like this- high quality padding- NO rattles. Sad that the Japanese quality has declined. I know that back then, most were made in Japan, but I think it is the quality of the materials now that plague these cars, but as a turn around- American cars have improved.

Back in the 1980s- when there were really no large Japanese luxury cars until 1986, when Honda introduced the Acura Legend and in 1988, when Mazda released the 929. There was the luxury editions of Honda Accords (LX, LX-i - EX in 90' and Toyota Camrys (LE - XLE in 92') as well as the Cressida and Maxima) Cadillac was the #1 selling luxury car in the 1980s and even more so from, the 1970s on back. Lincoln always run second and Chrysler Imperial third. Of course there was always Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, Rolls-Royce, but they really did not really become good sellers in the USA until the 1980s.

To update- I went back and seen the photos posted of the STS and CTS- I think they are both nice, but the STS does have smoother lines. Door handles are one quick way to tell the difference.

[VBdenny]

Excellent perspective SWO.

I must garee that I think the new Cadillac's have great styling. As the previous owner of a Cadillac (79 sedan de ville) I do feel they are pretty good cars. Sure a few things break than on my Lexus but parts are sure a lot cheaper.

I also thing the Cadillac looks better than the GS Lexus. I think the new Sc's are great looking, the new Es looks fantastic, I don't care for the new LS430's especially. I mean they aren't bad, bu they really don't portray the same classic styling that Cadillac has (somehow) come up with. While I still believe that Lexus is a far superior vehicle in respect to future resale value, Cadillac certainly has the edge in styling.

Thanks for your insight.

[SW03ES]

90LS- There have definately been steps backwards not in quality but in the "over engineering" of these cars. Ask 1990 (jim) about it sometime his feelings about taking the dash of his 90 LS and then his 00 LS apart and the build quality differences. The cars are still put together great, best in the business but Lexus seems to feel they can take some more chances with the build of these cars. The GS had a lot of integrity issues (rattles) when it first came out. I've noticed on my car that there have been some rattles the dealer has had to sort out and my dad has had similar issues with his 04 LS430, his 98 LS400 never had a rattle in 150,000 miles of ownership. Nothing like a BMW or Benz, but they're definately a little more lax.

As for styling I agree with vbdenny. I think this may be the positive side of Lexus getting "less careful". The ES (my generation) is a great looking sedan I think, one of the best on the road. Its different and pushes some envelopes. Some think its ugly, but before Lexus styling never made anyone care enough to make their mind up either way. I always heard people say "Its handsome" about Lexus, but nobody ever calls my car handsome. They either think its "beautiful" or "ugly". Thats good news for Lexus, the new SC is the same way. As for the LS430, I think the 2001-2003 LS430 was a huge step backwards for Lexus in styling from the 98-00 LS400 (which has a timelessly elegant design) In 04 they tweaked it in all the right areas and made a HUGE improvement but its still basically too tall, with too high a rear deck and big slabbed sides. The new GS looks great, so hopefully Lexus will get their styling growing pains behind them.

[blake918]

Denny, I'm not disagreeing(just curious!), but what kind of classic style do you see in the new Caddy's? The only thing I see is tail light style. The front and side views remind me of nothing else I've seen from Cadillac. I see plenty of classic(as classic as a car that's been in production since early '90 can be!) style in the LS430 like the tail lights, chromed exhaust tips, grill, and shape of the car. I love Lexus's conservative style's of the late '90's, but Lexus's new styles certainly aren't bad at all. My favorite love it or hate it styled Lexus is definantly the SC430...what a car!!! My next door neighbor has a '03 GS430 Silver on black...it's incredible(and it drives nicely too)! B) I like the plain, simple look that Lexus uses. I guess that's why people believe that a '90 LS400 is brand new. I'd be willing to bet a lot that in 14 years a STS will never be mistaken as a new or even a newer car! Sure the STS is worlds more stylish than a GS, but I think the new Caddy's are almost over styled; they are just too busy to me! I hope Lexus gets their act back in gear. I'd hate to see such a great car maker fall!

[SW03ES]

I don't see anything busy about the new STS at all...

The real jury will need time to convene. You're right, the new styling of the STS may not fair well, but only time will tell. The CTS looks dated already, but its much more drastic than the STS or the XLR. Lexus acheives its ability to keep the cars looking new and fresh because they have been careful with the design progressions of the cars. They're now taking more chances, so that may change for them as well. Caddy does a good job of keeping its cars fresh too though, 92-97 Sevilles still look good, even after all those years on the road.

[90LS400Lexus]

I don't see anything busy about the new STS at all...

The real jury will need time to convene. You're right, the new styling of the STS may not fair well, but only time will tell. The CTS looks dated already, but its much more drastic than the STS or the XLR. Lexus acheives its ability to keep the cars looking new and fresh because they have been careful with the design progressions of the cars. They're now taking more chances, so that may change for them as well. Caddy does a good job of keeping its cars fresh too though, 92-97 Sevilles still look good, even after all those years on the road.

Agreed- they still have a sleek, up to date design. The 86-91 Sevilles are not that bad either. The Eldorado (2-door version of the Seville) is also a nice car. My father is not a Cadillac fan, but he has always liked the 92-up Eldorado.

I on the other hand prefer the 90-93 Sedan DeVille, but I have been known to had odd tastes in cars.

I wish I had my old 1972 Buick Electra 225 Custom 4dr hardtop sedan back. 455 V8- it would pass everything but the gas station. :D

Classic styling- what a boat!

(see photo) - this was a old photo, before we had the driveway covered in concrete.

The car stickered for $6930. in 1972, but was discounted, because it was a late 1972 model, so it sold for $5900, which was a large chunk of change in 1972.

It was a 1-owner car, purchased brand new by a doctor who passed on in the 1990s. His son advertised it for sale in 2001 and I went to look. It was setting in a barn, covered with dust and chicken feathers. Started right up and the A/C was still blowing out air as cold as ice! Someone in South Carolina bought it in 2002 and was going to paint it and keep it in the garage. That is why I sold it- I had no garage space for it. So, you can see what kind of cars I like- the boats of the early 1970s. Currently in search for a (now rare) 1971-1973 Chevrolet Caprice Estate wagon, with the "disappearing" tailgate. One here locally, 72' Caprice Kingswood Estate wagon, brown w/woodgrain, with a factory 402 Chevy engine option, setting in a garage- where it has been for years, but the old woman will not sell it. Someday hopefully. :) She has my name and number.

[TMaxxTim]

I decided that I, personally, like the LS the best out of all of the cars at this dealership, however I am going to test drive all of them since they are all $6500 and I would just like to see again

92 325i

94 525i

90 730i

96 Maxima

96 C280 Sport

03 LS 400

The 325i would be my next choice and I would probably get it over the lex because of the sport factor, however it has no center armrest, cup holders, or center console, all of which the LS has. They are nice!

Anyways, I'll let you know how it goes this weekend.

[90LS400Lexus]

That is a super buy on the 96 Mercedes. I have never heard of a 90 BMW 730, it must have originally been sold in Europe, because only the 735I, 735il and 750il, were the 7-series sold in the USA. Maximas are excellent cars. I guess you meant to put 93 LS400, instead of 03. If it were a 03 LS430- that would be a absoulte steal- literally, because it probably would have been stoled or totalled to sell that cheaply. lol

Just do not make any hasty decisions that you may regret a little later. Also consider getting a $3000-$4000 car- save the rest for later. Just some suggestions.

Good luck

[VBdenny]

Blake, I'm not sure. I think the new Cadillac's have is a very crisp 2000+ look. While the LS430 looks good, it just doesn't stand out to me as innovative styling. Rest assured that if I was buying one or the other, it would be the Lexus as I recognize which will be worht more in the future. I just think that Cadillac has come a long way. Look what Oldsmobile tried and how THAT worked out. Everybody has an opinion on cars, we just all care enough to actually discuss the styling.

Thanks for the reply

Denny

[blake918]

Blake,  I'm not sure.  I think the new Cadillac's have is a very crisp 2000+ look.  While the LS430 looks good, it just doesn't stand out to me as innovative styling.  Rest assured that if I was buying one or the other, it would be the Lexus as I recognize which will be worht more in the future.  I just think that Cadillac has come a long way.  Look what Oldsmobile tried and how THAT worked out.  Everybody has an opinion on cars, we just all care enough to actually discuss the styling.

Thanks for the reply

Denny

Thanks for your calm explanation(some people would have read my response to your post the wrong way, so thanks!)! No doubt that the Caddy is more stylish than any Lexus, and I agree that they do deserve props for trying to make a comback from the '90's. My favorite Caddy(and only ones that I'd consider owning) was actually the one "that Ziggs!" ...the Catera(and Deville DTS that is current)! :D The refresh in whatever year it was('00 or '01?) made the car look really, really awesome although I remember Consumer Reports filing the Catera under the collumn "to avoid." :( My neighbor has one, and he said his has been a pretty good car! I guess "spotty" reliability would be a better term! Here's the one that I'm talking about; it's even in my favorite color-beige! Absolutely, we are just having a friendly discussion on the new Caddy's!! :D I could imagine that I sound like the hard core Lexus Loyalist, but suprisingly, their subtle and elegant styling appeals to me greatly...more so than the new Caddy "hey look at me styling!" All just my $.02!

And, the DeVille that I like...stylish, but not too much! B):

Blake

[90LS400Lexus]

Blake,  I'm not sure.  I think the new Cadillac's have is a very crisp 2000+ look.  While the LS430 looks good, it just doesn't stand out to me as innovative styling.  Rest assured that if I was buying one or the other, it would be the Lexus as I recognize which will be worht more in the future.  I just think that Cadillac has come a long way.  Look what Oldsmobile tried and how THAT worked out.  Everybody has an opinion on cars, we just all care enough to actually discuss the styling.

Thanks for the reply

Denny

Thanks for your calm explanation(some people would have read my response to your post the wrong way, so thanks!)! No doubt that the Caddy is more stylish than any Lexus, and I agree that they do deserve props for trying to make a comback from the '90's. My favorite Caddy(and only ones that I'd consider owning) was actually the one "that Ziggs!" ...the Catera(and Deville DTS that is current)! :D The refresh in whatever year it was('00 or '01?) made the car look really, really awesome although I remember Consumer Reports filing the Catera under the collumn "to avoid." :( My neighbor has one, and he said his has been a pretty good car! I guess "spotty" reliability would be a better term! Here's the one that I'm talking about; it's even in my favorite color-beige! Absolutely, we are just having a friendly discussion on the new Caddy's!! :D I could imagine that I sound like the hard core Lexus Loyalist, but suprisingly, their subtle and elegant styling appeals to me greatly...more so than the new Caddy "hey look at me styling!" All just my $.02!

And, the DeVille that I like...stylish, but not too much! B):

Blake

Agreed. Both are nice cars. That DeVille is a supurb looking automobile. I really like the factory "LED" taillamps. Has anyone noticed that the new Kia Amati also has "LED" lamps on the front parking/turn signals. Really look neat, but I am not fond of the huge grille. A real bargain for $25,000 - not to mention the 100K/10 year powertrain warranty.

[TMaxxTim]

That is a super buy on the 96 Mercedes. I have never heard of a 90 BMW 730, it must have originally been sold in Europe, because only the 735I, 735il and 750il, were the 7-series sold in the USA. Maximas are excellent cars. I guess you meant to put 93 LS400, instead of 03. If it were a 03 LS430- that would be a absoulte steal- literally, because it probably would have been stoled or totalled to sell that cheaply. lol

Just do not make any hasty decisions that you may regret a little later. Also consider getting a $3000-$4000 car- save the rest for later. Just some suggestions.

Good luck

Whoops! I did mean 93 LS, and a 735i. I'm looking more into the mercedes because I think it might end up to be pretty nice also.

[SW03ES]

Blake- So its bubbly and ovoid you like huh ? ;)

[blake918]

Blake- So its bubbly and ovoid you like huh ? ;)

I guess you could say that! I wouldn't say that I like any one particular "type" of style over the next(I will say that I love big, V8 powered cars like the LS, DeVille, Lincoln TC, Crown Vic/Marquis, Merc S, etc). I love Chris Bangle's BMW's especially the 645i, but I'd never buy one because of the iDrive. His maze of lines come together in a more pleasing way than the styles of Cadillac to ME. It's weird I know...how do I like Bimmer's but not Caddy? I like the front half of the STS, but it looks like the rear end up in the air was thrown together in about 5 minutes.

Conversely, Lexus's boring/ultra conservative/call them what you like styles of the late '90's are my favorite('97+ ES is among my favorite with the '98+ LS, and both maybe have one body line on them. Ohh, I can't forget the Rx300 either!...ovoid?? Absolutely!!), but I'm well aware that they are extremely dull, but the boring predictability is what has kept me so satisfied with my two Lexi(and excellent reliability... bearing age and mileage). They don't scream look at me, but they are upscale and elegant in their own way, and they age remarkably well. B) I don't know if I'd say that the DTS or Catera are ovoid since I don't see much of an oval them to either of them. <_< The Catera is a little bubbly, but I don't know about the DTS-it's soo smooth and graceful looking, and like '90 said, the LED tails are sweet! The funniest thing I've ever heard was the owner of a '00 Taurus refer to the styling as hamburger-like! I think they are great looking cars(the '00+)...I almost bought one but ended up with an ES instead. There is so much room inside, and it had a pretty smooth ride, but it was probably for the better that I got the ES although we've had great luck with our Fords(they're hit or miss.).

[90LS400Lexus]

I have been wondering- did you ever purchase a LS? Seems like the topic just stopped. ......

[TMaxxTim]

No, My dad told me he was waiting for the middle of the month so he could organize his finances a little better. The 93 LS for $6500 sold and I'm looking at a 92 SC for $4900 now, hopefully I can get him to the dealer this weekend to look at it. I'll keep you guys updates if and when I do get a car ;)