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I edited my OP, since the price for that part is $166 (after core return), not $125. My mistake. I don't know a thing about starters, but when I saw 'lubing' etc. in the product description, that raised questions in my mind. And if a mechanic with years of experience (code58) is saying he's seen lots of re-do's with rebuilts, then that just plain scares me. Lots of labor involved in this, and I don't want to have to pay someone to go back in there. I should be able to find a shop who specializes in this..I'll ask around and make sure I get someone with a good track record. Thanks.

Here's the description of what I would be getting for the $166. DENSO SUPER CLASS STARTER, REMANUFACTURED -- Features a housing re-trapped to OEM specifications and damage-checked for heat warping, corrosion or improper surface alignment, refinished and polished gauged and performance tested commutator, 100 percent voltage tested solenoid coil, 100 percent re-plated with copper terminal bolts, inspected, stripped and high voltage tested field coil, cleaned armature and torque-tested and re-lubricated clutch assembly; A precision designed and performance tested starter. Condition: New Product Fit: OE replacement Quantity Sold: Sold individually

On a quest to find a rebuilt starter for my '94 LS400 (97K miles). I have a bead on a Denso reman for $166 (that's the price after the core is returned, and shipping is free). The description says it's the same starter that Denso supplies direct to Toyota for Lexus (I called and asked). Just rebuilt. Then I saw the below excerpt, which makes me think rebuilt is NOT the way to go. The excerpt is from member code58 from another thread: "I am not a big believer in rebuilt of hardly anything at all, the rebuilt hardly ever last very long before they give problems again. Most people and even shops will just throw a rebuilt on, but I have learned in a lifetime in automotive work that I am better repairing what I have than trusting $8. an hour help with cheap parts to rebuilt something that will give me trouble free service for any length of time..." Thoughts? Should I instead look for a reputable shop to do a rebuild on the starter I have? It's the original. I thought I was at the end of decision making, but guess not.

Thanks! The key thing...just something I've noticed (it's not so hot that I could light a cancer stick with it). I'll keep an eye on it and maybe do some more online research when I have the time. The AAA battery tech did run a full 'test', where he did all kinds of things, including revving the engine, etc. Based on the printout he gave me, the starter cranking test is 'normal' w/voltage at 10.560; replacing the battery was 'recommended'(but since it's less than a year old, the tech said it was highly likely the battery was rechargeable, and that if I got a slow charge on it and he came back a week later and reran the test, that he would get a good reading); and the 'charging system test' came back 'no problems'. 'No load' was at 14.160 and loaded was at '14.120'. Ripple (I have no idea what that is) was 70h0(??). The latter is hard to read. I'll give it some time, then take the car in to a shop for another full testing on the battery and alternator in a few days. In the meantime, I'll continue to track down the best starter price/source, in case I need (pretty sure I will). Will post back when I have more info... No, the key should not be hot. The key can be warm after extensive driving during summer. It's a possibility some parts of your engine bay is overheating or there's an electric discharge along the line but I am only speculating. Let's work on the starter issue. Now, i've read what CuriousB mentioned about the AAA guy and the starter. He's right, the starter isn't engaged long enough to draw too many amps. I wonder if the AAA guy was trying to say alternator instead of starter, which is designed to draw and expel electrical current to and from the battery. That was going to be my third troubleshooting tip, replacement of the alternator, but before you do that see if your new battery has lost charge; that's one of a few clear indicators your alternator is defective. So before you buy a new starter and the alternator, I would test the battery again. The Autozone and Advanced Auto guys have tester you can use or just ask them to run a diagnostic. A proper test includes testing with the headlights on, reving the engine and a couple of other things I can't recall of the top of my head. The final reading should indicate what device is going or gone bad. I hope it's just the battery that's defective.

Awesome! I will make some calls tomorrow. The variation in price on these parts is shocking. One store wanted almost $400 for solenoid contacts (2), plunger (1), air surge gaskets (4) and intake manifold gaskets (2). I'm no longer thinking of going that route (replacing contacts) but still, parts pricing is a real eye opener. Caveat emptor.

Thanks, I actually share your skepticism at this point. I plan to watch the battery (get another test in a few days) to see whether it's losing charge. Talked to AAA again tonight, and they said the battery testers are fairly sophisticated and can show if there is some kind of extra drain going on. I may have two issues (wiring and starter). With the sound that I described (loose rattly noise when the starter kicks over) doesn't that mean I have a bad starter? Can you think of any other explanation for the noise? This sounds suspicious. Batteries seldom die because the starter motor draws too much current. They simply aren't engaged long enough to make a huge difference. Unless your car has to be crankled several seconds and multiple time to start up each time I doubt this "theory". I would still check the wiring. I don't believe your friendly AAA man is a professional mechanic so you shouldn't take his word as gospel. You still might need a new starter but its not obvious from this diagnosis.

Hi, yes, I had that done this morning when I was at Autozone getting the charge. They loaned me a wire brush and I scrubbed out the interiors of the cable ends (the o-shape that fits over the battery posts) and they also scrubbed the posts themselves before putting it the charger. It tested at only a 65% charge, so yes, it needed charging. It probably would have had much less than 65% had I not gone for that drive last night. I got some help and he used a 10mm socket wrench to really tighten the terminals (I watched to make sure). So everything is clean and on there really tight. The starter was fine this morning, and even sounded normal. But as the day wore on the second and third time I started it (a total of five times today, if I am not mistaken), I thought I heard the loose brushing sound again. Is it normal for the ignition key to be 'hot' when you first remove it after extensive around town driving? The car was in use a good four hours. After removing the key, I noticed the heat...not red not exactly, but fairly toasty.

Sorry, I don't understand. Toyota who? Who do I call? Yes, given the noises, I plan to go with an OEM rebuilt. I already have quotes from one online lexus dealer store for $213 (rebuilt OEM starter only...manifold gaskets are extra). Are you saying I can do better than the $213? If so, that would be great! It is starting to sound like the starter motor, but I'm not definite since I'm not infront of your car. I would replace the starter; a rebuilt starter from Toyota would be my first choice. I'm not much of a fan of rebuilt units sold at NAPA or Autozone unless it's an original Denso. bad experience. THe part from Lexus is expensive, around $200, but Toyota should be able to get something cheaper. provide them with a part number and they can cross-reference.

Yes, it's the starter. AAA left not too long ago and the guy was great. Btw, I found out if the problem is with a AAA battery, they don't ding you a service call. So I got a freebee, woo-hoo. He said the battery was discharged because the starter is going out and is pulling too many amps. That, combined with the fact that I was also leaving the car parked for three or more days at a time, or making only short trips to nearby stores, all added up to a battery that was not able to recharge itself. The alternator tested excellent (whew). Why did he say it's the starter? After he put jumper cables on the battery, when the starter kicked in, you could hear metallic gnashing noises. It almost sounds like something is loose and tumbling around in a garbage disposal (though of course not at all as loud as that). It's definitely on its way out. There may even be something broken off in the starter. Not sure. It's working, but probably for not much longer. Before he left, he told me to go for a good long drive tonight, then to put a 2 hour slow charge on the battery tomorrow. I just got back from the drive (45 minutes), but, unfortunately, the two freeways I tried were jammed with slow moving, bumper-to-bumper traffic. It was so bad, I didn't even get on them. Instead, I got it up to 40 mph (did not want to get ticketed for speeding) on the side streets. Mostly it was stop and go driving in traffic, with some clear patches of 35 or 40 mph mixed in. At least I kept it running for an extended period. My guess is the battery got enough of a charge to start up tomorrow for the trip to Autozone, or wherever, for the slow charge. So, prior to him pointing out the 'loose metal tumbling sound' in the starter, I was planning on only changing the solenoid contacts/plunger (cheapest fix possible). But it sounds like there is more going on than just bad solenoid contacts and a pitted plunger, correct? I need to order parts ASAP (either a rebuilt starter or solenoid repair kit) so if someone could point me in the right direction, that would be great.

So are you saying this rat-tat-tat- noise is proof the starter/solenoid is working fine? And that the problem is with the battery or a connection?

This list (which is helpful) doesn't mention anything about gaskets. I think I read I should replace the intake manifold gasket too. I have never worked with this mechanic before. Is there anything he could possibly do to screw things up if he does replace it the intake gasket? Do you recommend this be done or should we just leave it alone? I think I read on another thread that someone else caused a vacuum leak when they put on a new intake gasket. Given a look at the starter components once I had it apart the minimum I would do is: Clean and lub the solenoid mechanicals. Clean, fine sandpaper, the commutator. Replace the brushes. Replace the solenoid "bypass" contacts. Cleaning/burnishing the battery posts/connections might have fixed the flinkering light problem. I have personally seen battery connections so corroded that a light level of current would flow but current at the starter requirement level would result in smoke rising from the battery terminal(s). I suspect almost any marginal elctrical connection could act the same.

Thanks. The battery tested fine/strong on Sunday. The car hasn't been driven much and today I was trying to start it so the thing may have gotten weak. I just do not know. Why is the tat tat tat tat tat sound coming from the far right side (sounds like it's near the hood under the passenger side dash)? That's to my right when sitting in the driver's seat.

Yes, I am aware of that. I am not sure whether I got a the single clicks (on Sunday) because I did not continue to hold the key to the right long enough or just what. That's possible. One thing is for sure; every time now, I am getting the rapid fire clicks. AAA tested the battery on Sunday and said there was nothing wrong with it. So maybe there is an electrical or connection issue elsewhere. At the very least, that should be ruled out before we pull the starter. I find it odd the starter would 'go' instantly since most people say they got theirs to work for a quite a bit longer once it first acted up (like for several weeks longer). I will have the mechanic run a full diagnosis and report back. Weird that I would be getting single clicks at first and now rapid fire clicks.

A little more info...on the third time out (thought I would check one more time), when the key hit the 'start' mode, I heard two faint clicks, then rat tat tat tat fast clicking. The other thing I noticed the dash panel lights dimmed when I turned on the headlights (manually). When I put the lights on 'auto' (they would go off because it's light outside) and the dash panel lights brightened. The headlight icon in the dash panel never did come on. The headlights would not go into 'bright' mode when I flicked the switch forward. The turn signals didn't work either. Or if they did, no icon came on in the dash panel to show me that the headlights were on or the turn signals were working. I am not sure how relevant this dash panel stuff is, since I have been having dash panel light flickering for months now. The dash panel lights usually come on and stay on after I have driven the car for 10 to fifteen mins or so. Thought I would mention this in case that helps to diagnose.

The headlights come on with the key in the ignition in the 'on' position. I cannot tell how bright they are, because it's sunny outside. Now, when I turn the key all the way to 'start' I get rapid tat tat tat tat sound. Every time. Whereas on Sunday, when this first happened, I heard the single click. When I first tried to start it today I heard it trying to turn over (faintly) then the single click. Then subsequent tries on the key gave me the rat tat tat tat sound. Now, no more single clicks, just rat tat tat every time.

Car won't start. When I turned the key, I heard a faint rrrow sound, then the single click. I turned the key several more times, and each time just the click. If I leave the key turned to the right (and hold it with light pressure in the place the key would normally be in to fire up the engine) I get a rapid clicking tat-tat-tat sound. The tat-tat-tat sound was on the passenger side in the front -- seemed like it was coming from under the hood or the dash panel. In other words, the tat tat noise was nowhere near where the battery is. Ideas? I am going out again to see if the lights will come on with the key in the 'on' position.

I thought I had lucked out in getting the one AAA mechanic that knew to try this...it could so easily have gone the other way (meaning a tow, which would have been a big problem given that my mechanic's shop is closed on Sunday). Would have been a hassle, in other words. I wasn't happy with the news, but I was happy with the service! As he said, eventually the tapping won't work, so I have to fix it. There's no other solution.

Ok, got it. Will do. Appreciate the follow-up.

I think this is the way to go then. Thanks for posting the pics. By any chance, do you remember the brand of the kit?

Thanks. His quote was for installing a new (rebuilt) starter that I provide. Are you saying I could have him do these things to my existing starter and I would be good to go? What you describe really doesn't sound all that complicated. The dash panel lights are the same, still flickering or going dark for a time until the car warms up. It's taking longer and longer for them to come on. The battery terminals were just cleaned on Sunday (by AAA). The battery is only one year old, and it had only 'light' corrosion build-up. I don't think there's any connection between the flicker of the dash panel and the battery (in this instance). I found (and promptly lost) another (rather extensive) thread about what others did to fix flickering dash panel lights. I need to get this problem solved too (kind of important to know fuel level!), but my main concern now is getting the starter fixed. My car started up fine (twice so far) today. Whew. Given a look at the starter components once I had it apart the minimum I would do is: Clean and lub the solenoid mechanicals. Clean, fine sandpaper, the commutator. Replace the brushes. Replace the solenoid "bypass" contacts. Cleaning/burnishing the battery posts/connections might have fixed the flinkering light problem. I have personally seen battery connections so corroded that a light level of current would flow but current at the starter requirement level would result in smoke rising from the battery terminal(s). I suspect almost any marginal elctrical connection could act the same.

I have an independent mechanic lined up to do the work at a good rate (he's seemed really knowledgeable ... everything that he said was in sync with what I have read in these forums about starter repair on an LS400). I'm supplying the parts; he's doing the labor. So my next step is to cost out rebuilt starters. I'm assuming OEM new would be cost prohibitive. Can you recommend a good rebuilt brand, or two? Or where would I go to get my starter rebuilt? I think I will probably replace the whole starter rather than have him do just the solenoid contacts. That's how I am leaning at the moment. I read on some thread that Carson Toyota uses rebuilts by Denso (there was another part to the name but I forget what it was...something like AFIAK?). Not sure if that is even true (that they use that brand). I can look around some more in forums to find what others are using, but thought I would check here too. If this is the original starter, it's lasted almost 100K miles with no problems until now. I doubt any replacement will last as long. Also, what other parts should I buy? I read I would need an intake gasket. Is there anything else? Thanks.

OK, thanks. A few questions... Since the starter only fired up when he tapped on it (while I turned the key in the ignition), doesn't it make sense that the problem is with sticky solenoid contacts? In other words, those contacts weren't closing, so the starter wasn't getting the full battery power. When he tapped it, it reset, and the car started. I would certainly like to have the electrical connections you mentioned tested (I'm assuming that that is possible) before replacing anything. But it's not clear why, if there were an electrical problem in one of the connections, the car started up at all (based on what we tried). We weren't fiddling with any wires or cables that I know of. He did not even remove the battery terminals. He sprayed them with something then wiped them down. As I said, before he tried tapping, he cleaned the battery terminals and boosted the power of the existing battery and then had me try to start it. I still got that single click noise. The only thing that worked was tapping hte starter (or in that vicinity) while I turned the key. I have had a dash panel light flickering problem...though the lights do eventually come on after the car warms up. Seems unrelated to this issue. Or is it?

Ah, OK, guess I won't be doing that! Fortunately, I still have several service calls left on my AAA plan if I need them. I will see if I can get someone lined up tomorrow for the fix. Thanks for the follow-up!! *****

Does anyone know if it would help keep the starter/solenoid contacts 'working' if I start the car a few times each day (until I can get in to see the mechanic)? It might take a couple of days to get the car in. I can always call AAA again if I have to, but I was just wondering if there would be any point to doing this. Thanks.

One more question. With a 1% chance this problem could be caused by something else...what do you think about trying this? Other than a faulty starter relay and a bad starter or solenoid, I think I can exclude most other causes on this list. http://www.lextreme.com/dx-starter.html He suggests bypassing the starter circuit: "There are many reasons why the engine won't turn. It is possible the circuitry might be faulty. However, you can test your starter without taking it out. You can bypass the circuitry and use a positive (+) into the fuse box. Here are the procedures: 1. Open up the fuse box with a flat screwdriver. The fuse box is located near the battery. 2. Use a 10 mm socket and loose the fuse/relay module. 3. From there you need to use the same 10 mm socket and loose the plug. 3. Once the plug is out, look for a large black wire right under the Green Relay (Starter Relay) See starter diagram below. 4. Supply the black wire with a power source. Please be careful do not touch this hot wire to anywhere else..." [Full instructions are at the link above)...] Would this also tell me whether the solenoid is 'bad'? Thanks in advance for any follow-up.