92 Es300 / Windom Troubles

[gtstcactus]

Hi...

Car is 1992 Toyota Windom (so an ES300).
Haven't had it long had been going fine.

Went to start it and it won't start. Doesn't try and turnover at all. No rapid clicking like my Nissan Skyline used to do when the battery was dead or dying,
Really the only sound is from the starter motor. At a guess too me it sounds like the magnetic switch engaging and disengaging but it could be something else....
There is electric power to the dashboard lights, accessories and lights etc.
I also noticed a little liquid coming out from the cells on the battery (it's a never service type) when trying to start the car....

I've also tried jump starting it with help from a friends car and also no luck..+

I know it's hard going off a vague description written by me on the internet but it's best I can do at the mo....So I'm not expecting a magic answer but some help would be appreciated! Should I be replacing the starter? Battery? Previous owner got rid of the ciggy lighter so I can't plug my volt meter to see what's happening there.

I might also look at replacing the battery terminal connectors.

I've purchased new battery terminals as the old ones were pretty worn, I'll take to the posts etc with a wire brush in hope that might be it. Will try do them tomorrow.

If I can hear the starter going click wait half a second click is that a sign of anything good or bad???

I perhaps should mention a few weeks back occasionally I'd get in the car and it seemed like the battery had gone flat, or after I'd been for a drive I'd get home turn the car off, come back to it 2 or 3 mins later try and turn it on and wouldn't start or try to turn over, but I think it was more likely a bad connection loose wire or something of the sort. I'd get out and walk away, or pop the hood and inspect the battery perhaps moving it, sometimes I'd just sit on the hood and curse and swear. Then I'd get back in and it would often start and be fine for a few day, or however long it took to happen again.

While trying to start the car and listening to the starter motor I noticed liquid coming out from the cells of the battery (non-maintenance type battery). Not heaps but enough to make me think that's not normal... Can anyone suggest a cause of this? It only seems to happen while turning the ignition over, the starter clicks twice and liquid comes from battery... Is this a sign of a dicky battery battery? Do batteries sometimes leak a little liquid when trying to start? (surely not, I never seen it, but perhaps I just never took notice)

I know there are many threads regarding hood struts and removing them etc,.,

I got a new pair off Ebay and they arrived and appear to be all good. I've got the drivers side support on but am having trouble with the passenger side support (right hand drive vehicle)...
I've managed to remove the bolt which secures the bracket to the fender but can't remove the bolt / ballbearing from the hood (which still has the strut attached. It seems on of the previous owners has rounded / stripped the bolt, so I don't seem to be able to remove it. I'm unable to remove the strut from.

Has anyone got any tricks or tips that might help???

I've sprayed with crc hoping to loosen the bolt also.

I've tried using an adjustable spanner, 12mm Spanner, vice grips, and hammer to beat the strut off the ball bearing without luck. Also tried a hacksaw but the one I have can't get a good angle to cut.

so in summary HELP please!!!

[gbhrps]

gtstcactus,

Several possible issues for the non start.

The alternator may be overcharging or not charging the battery. Get it checked at a garage when you do get the car started as it needs to be turning for diagnosis.

The battery may have an internal short or be so sulfated that its no longer viable. A garage can load test it to be sure.

You may indeed have bad cables from the battery to the starter selenoid, or they may be corroded and need cleaning. Clean up or replace.

The starter itself may have a bad section of wiring in the armature (the spinning part). If the starter turns off and stops on this bad section, it won't spin the next time you try to start it. If it stops on a good section, it spins on the next start cycle. Get the starter checked, again at the garage.

The brushes in the starter may be worn and need replacing.

The starter selenoid may have gone south.

If none of these items correct the issue, you will need a service technician to track done the problem, as you may have a short or a break in the wiring someplace.

As for the strut ball, use the vice grips and get very aggressive with it. It may well break off in the attempt if its that rusted in place. In that case you'll need to drill out the broken bolt section and retap the blind nut in the fender before you can mount the new strut. Good Luck!

[gtstcactus]

Thanks for your reply, I've decided I'm going to get a replacement battery today also as I noticed it leaking / bubbling a small amount of fluid when turning the key over trying to start (without success). This can't be normal! So new battery, I'm going to replace the terminals also as they have seen better days.

I have a replacement starter motor on hand to put in if the battery and terminals don't fix the problem.

The biggest hassle is it's a pain to work on it with the hood supports not holding the hood up, I've replaced one but it needs both to hold it up.

I'll report back on how I get on!

[lexis lexus]

Sounds like you're having some fun.....

Battery probably bad, but those connectors can do it too.

If neither one of those fixes it, you may need a new starter. Another problem that can happen is that the cables end up corroding from the inside -- 22 years old! They'll carry some charge, but can't do the full load which is what's needed to get started. I agree, fluid from the battery is not normal, and that's where I'd start.

Not sure what to say about the struts. I make a lubricant by mixing 50% acetone and 50% auto trans fluid (from old Popular Mechanics article). Works better than most everything on the market, and a lot less expensive than most. Squirt it on daily for several days, then try. Another trick is to heat up the fastener w/ a propane torch to break the fused threads holding it in. As Archimedes said, "give me a long enough lever and I'll move the earth..." so you might be able to take advantage of the attached strut to just torque the thing off. Lastly, might need to drill a good sized hole thru the body of the stuck fastener and then try to turn with a long Phillips screwdriver.

I've had my share of stuck and broken bolts and fasteners on my '94, it takes time but you'll get there.

LL

[gtstcactus]

Thanks for the advice I'm off to do battle again shortly, I've got a new battery to put in, and new terminals also. The wiring looks like someone has made a wee mess of it, probably when adding a stereo or something I'm not sure....

I think I'm going to attack the offending bolt or the bit of strut with the ballbearing end in it with a drill....

I've got a spare starter motor on hand in case the battery and terminals don't do the job....

So hopefully I'll be able to report back mission successful a little later on!

[gtstcactus]

Got the car started!!! Replacement battery & terminals did the trick, replacement starter wasn't needed...

I ended up pulling on the strut until it snapped the bolt (was what I wanted), so now I can get a stud extractor socket onto it (once I go buy one from the hardware store!

For some reason the power mirrors stopped folding in and out today..... After I got it started I folded them in, drove car out of garage, folded them out all seemed fine drove the car across town and now they won't fold in or out... Starting to think it's cursed!

Need to do rear struts and tires asap. Need to do the belts & water pump also. Oil & filter, transmission fluid, power steering fluid, Should probably drain the radiator and start fresh there too. I'm going to change the air filter as it's the original I think and pretty filthy! The air con console works but there is no action from the air con no hot or cold, so I'm hoping its a fuse, or maybe the blower motor...

I've got to sort the stereo out as the last owner made a mess of it but thats low on the priority list... Could the messing with the wiring that previous owner did with the stereo cause other things to stop working such as the wing mirrors folding?

[lexis lexus]

Reminds me of Bullwinkle's old saying, "Where brains fail....brawn prevails..."

Sears makes a great broken bolt extractor set, but it's pricey, however worthwhile investment.

Unlikely radio work has caused probs w/ mirrors. Look for a bad fuse.

LL

[gbhrps]

gtstcactus,

From my experience if both mirrors don't move, then you have a common issue that operates both. A broken wire, a fuse, or most probably the switch that operates them.

Assuming that both mirrors move up and down and side to side by the switch, the portion of the switch or the separate switch that folds them (I personally haven't run across the power folding mirrors before) is dead or most likely just needs cleaning. As time goes on the contacts can get gummed up or carboned up. Cleaning with a pink eraser, or an electrical contact cleaner spray and cycling the switch several times , usually is all that is required.

Generally the switch itself can be pried out of the dash with a thin bladed screw driver, and then disconnected from its wiring connector. You may have to pull the panel below the steering wheel off (usually a screw or two and 3 or 4 pop plugs that just pull straight out) to get the switch out.

Once out, spray the cleaner fluid into any and all crevasses, and cycle the switch to do the actual cleaning. Allow it to evaporate, hook it up and try the switch. If you're brave, you can pry open the switch itself with very small bladed screw drivers to get at the contacts and clean them properly. I've done this many times over the years with all kinds of car makes. Even if you bugger it up, nothing is lost as it didn't work in the first place. Just go buy a used one on eBay or from a wrecker.

As for the AC not working, you most probably have a bad relay in the fuse box. Toyota had a problem with several model years of AC relays that went south when they aged. They even have a newer updated relay to replace them that has all of the same part number digits, except for the last two, if I remember correctly. It corrected the problem and never again was a problem. The relay is cheap to buy and the fix is instant, and it can be purchased just about anywhere.

I had to do this same fix on my wife's last ES330 about a year ago. Do a search on this forum for posts using my signature (gbhrps) and you should be able to find the thread and the position, name, and part number of the relay. Its been too long for me to remember the title of the posts. Toyota had a TSB (technical service bulletin) on the fix, and it was wide spread over 7 or 8 years of production, so its most likely your issue. Good Luck!

[gtstcactus]

gtstcactus,

From my experience if both mirrors don't move, then you have a common issue that operates both. A broken wire, a fuse, or most probably the switch that operates them.

Assuming that both mirrors move up and down and side to side by the switch, the portion of the switch or the separate switch that folds them (I personally haven't run across the power folding mirrors before) is dead or most likely just needs cleaning. As time goes on the contacts can get gummed up or carboned up. Cleaning with a pink eraser, or an electrical contact cleaner spray and cycling the switch several times , usually is all that is required.

Generally the switch itself can be pried out of the dash with a thin bladed screw driver, and then disconnected from its wiring connector. You may have to pull the panel below the steering wheel off (usually a screw or two and 3 or 4 pop plugs that just pull straight out) to get the switch out.

Once out, spray the cleaner fluid into any and all crevasses, and cycle the switch to do the actual cleaning. Allow it to evaporate, hook it up and try the switch. If you're brave, you can pry open the switch itself with very small bladed screw drivers to get at the contacts and clean them properly. I've done this many times over the years with all kinds of car makes. Even if you bugger it up, nothing is lost as it didn't work in the first place. Just go buy a used one on eBay or from a wrecker.

As for the AC not working, you most probably have a bad relay in the fuse box. Toyota had a problem with several model years of AC relays that went south when they aged. They even have a newer updated relay to replace them that has all of the same part number digits, except for the last two, if I remember correctly. It corrected the problem and never again was a problem. The relay is cheap to buy and the fix is instant, and it can be purchased just about anywhere.

I had to do this same fix on my wife's last ES330 about a year ago. Do a search on this forum for posts using my signature (gbhrps) and you should be able to find the thread and the position, name, and part number of the relay. Its been too long for me to remember the title of the posts. Toyota had a TSB (technical service bulletin) on the fix, and it was wide spread over 7 or 8 years of production, so its most likely your issue. Good Luck!

Thanks for the advice the mirrors don't fold in or out (there is a button solely for this purpose), nor can the mirrors be adjusted up, down, left or right using the appropriate button. I guess I will start with the switches, and areas common to both sides....

Does this AC relay issue affect 1992 models? Is there a way to diagnose the problem if it is the relay without having a replacement on hand?

[gbhrps]

gtstcactus,

If you've lost all power to the mirrors, suspect a fuse is gone bad, or needs pulling and cleaning of its terminals, a broken wire or bad ground. For that you'll need a wiring diagram, and one that shows electrical component placement in the car (under the dash, in the driver's door, etc.)

As for the relay, as I said it was a year ago. I'll look back if I have time to snoop. As for my relay fix, I diagnosed our es330 situation as working perfectly one day and not the next, found the thread for the relay change fix online, bought the relay from a parts supplier, and the issue was fixed.

I'll get back to you when and if I can find it again.

[gbhrps]

gtstcactus,

The Mag Clutch Relay (magnetic clutch relay for the AC compressor) replacement fix affects 92 - 06 Lexus models. This means that the clutch on the compressor won't engage when you turn on the AC until you change this mag clutch relay.

This assumes that your AC system is full of the required coolant and the clutch operates correctly. Test the clutch by applying 12 volts to the one wire going to the clutch/pto. If it clicks when you apply the voltage, it should be good, providing the compressor isn't seized from sitting around.

As well, this relay change fix applies, if your AC button on the dash flashes. If it does, open the fuse box under the hood/bonnet , search out the relay labelled "mag clutch" and get a new one. Ask for its updated version (2 last digits are 28 instead of 26, if I remember correctly).

[gtstcactus]

Would this magnetic clutch relay apply to my situation in that the a/c console no longer does ANYTHING. 3 days ago I could push the buttons and the corresponding little green light would come on etc. I could use the front and rear de-mister function. I could dial up the desired temperature and it would display my choice (even tho no air hot or cold would blow, so my choice of temp was immaterial but at least the display worked) now nothing. The a/c console/unit no longer displays anything, no green LCD display, no selecting blow on feet, blow on face, no de-mister no nothing (but the clock works).

So is my thinking that the MAG clutch relay may be responsible for the lack of hot or cold air blowing when the a/c console unit was working, but it is perhaps not responsible for the A/C console no longer doing anything at all?? I thought I'd checked all the fuses, I'll do it again.

There is currently no stereo in place (thanks previous owner) so I can pull the A/C console out and shout at it and curse like a sailor but it doesn't seem to help. I guess I could check all the connections and perhaps use come terminal / contact cleaner if such a product exists (i'm sure it does)

It seems odd (tho possibly co-incidental) that the a/c console and mirror folding & adjustment all died at about the same time. They were working in the morning, after I used that damn sonic cleaner I noticed they'd all stopped working. It might have happened earlier but I can't help but blame the dame sonic cleaner!

It had been suggested to me by the local A/C repair shop over the phone that the blower motor may be in need of repair / replacement and that I could take it for diagnosis for $60NZD. The $60 won't get it fixed tho. So if possible I'd like to get to the bottom of this myself (with help from the kind folk on here)

My car being in New Zealand is a right hand drive - so is the blower motor located on the driver side or passenger side in my car??? I've watched a video on youtube of a guy replacing the blower motor on a camry (was told it's the same for windom/es300). That car was a left hand drive and blower motor was on passenger side I think. Do all things get moved to the other side on right hand drives when compared with left hand drive cars?

[gbhrps]

gtstcactus,

The blower motor will be under the glove box. Disconnect the rubber drain tube from its bottom that goes through the firewall, the fan motor wiring connector, three screws(usually) and the fan motor and squirrel cage fan drop down as one unit. Easy to find at a wrecker (Camry from same generation should be a direct exchange as well).

The mag clutch relay is only responsible for locking up the AC compressor pulley, so that the AC belt drives the compressor. It will have no effect on the dash buttons, other than to flash the AC button if the relay is bad. Your HVAC problems go deeper. You have other fuses blown, bad grounds, wiring issues, or a fried HVAC panel. Pull the unit from the dash, disconnect all wiring connectors, and then hook them up again tightly.

Then check your under hood/bonnet fuses for any that have anything to do with the AC/heater, etc. Clean their terminals, reinstall them, or replace them. There will be others under the dash or in the kickpanel on the driver's side. Your owner's manual will show their locations and uses.

I have no idea as to what you are referring to as a sonic cleaner. If you mean a carpet steam cleaner that you got carried away with and shorted out some wiring harnesses, then you have a real problem that an auto electric technician will need to correct.

As for the mirrors, you may have the issues I referred to previously, or a broken wire in the rubber gaiter that the wiring goes through from the car body to the door. Good Luck!

[gtstcactus]

When I say sonic cleaner I mean the button that's under the mirror adjustment button. The one that makes the mirrors vibrate or whatever it is they do..

Got to go to work soon, so today I'm not going to get anything done car wise, hopefully tomorrow I'll get a chance to spend a bit of time looking for the cause/s of my woes

[gbhrps]

Jason,

Could what you are referring to as a "sonic cleaner" be actually headlight washers? On the front bumper cover are there spray nozzles that are aimed back at the headlights?

Another possibility is a button for the side mirror heaters?

[1990LS400]

Jason,

Could what you are referring to as a "sonic cleaner" be actually headlight washers? On the front bumper cover are there spray nozzles that are aimed back at the headlights?

Another possibility is a button for the side mirror heaters?

He meant what he said. Some Toyota and Lexus cars sold in other markets have a feature that vibrates the outside mirrors to knock ice off them. It may sound weird but it is effective and entertaining.

[gtstcactus]

Yeah what 190LS400 said - Sonic mirror cleaners - the Button below the mirror adjustment button & mirror fold in/out button that makes the side mirrors vibrate - the only power mirror function I have left and the one I'd gladly trade for the other functions back!

I don't have headlight cleaning squirters or wipers.

Perhaps I should make a video on the feature for giggles....