The G Man Posted February 9, 2012 Posted February 9, 2012 This is the 1st direct comparison I have found on the new 2013 GS350 by an auto magazine. Although the GS350 came in 2nd, it was very close. The GS350 did a lot better than I though against one of the segment leaders. As suggusted in the article, the GS line was almost killed off until a few passionate supporters inside Toyota’s North American operations made a case for another chance. This may be the GS' last chance, its do or die time and the GS came out swinging. As some of us pointed out earlier, the GS' busy front end is a disappointment to the reviewer as well as usually numb Lexus steering. The GS' new interior is superb and the handling is world class. Of course with the improved handling, the ride a bit too stiff. The A6 has the advange in ride quality as well as accelaration. http://archive.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparisons/12q1/2012_audi_a6_3.0t_quattro_vs._2013_lexus_gs350-comparison_tests
LEX-SV Posted February 9, 2012 Posted February 9, 2012 Yes, I was reading my latest C&D, Lexus did very well in that comparison despite lack of steering feel. Audi's extra mass, front heavy balance and spongy brakes were mentioned too. Looking at the front of these cars, obviously more subjective than anything else as premium car makers like to style imposing grills that are quite contrived (rather than purely functional) as done by both Audi and Lexus in this case. No mention of reliability/dependability in this review, which Audi was probably glad about.
The G Man Posted February 9, 2012 Author Posted February 9, 2012 Yes, I was reading my latest C&D, Lexus did very well in that comparison despite lack of steering feel. Audi's extra mass, front heavy balance and spongy brakes were mentioned too. Looking at the front of these cars, obviously more subjective than anything else as premium car makers like to style imposing grills that are quite contrived (rather than purely functional) as done by both Audi and Lexus in this case. No mention of reliability/dependability in this review, which Audi was probably glad about. I think if you want to read up on reliability, you are better off with Consumer report than Car and Driver. Althought I do remember the C6 A6 was on top of the CR's most recommanded list a year or two ago in the mid size luxury car catagory. I had a 08 GS350 AWD that spend more time in the shop than any of my German cars, so its no guarantee than Lexus will always be more reliable than the German cars. In general, Lexus is more reliable, but the industry as a whole have improved on reliablity. The modern day German cars are actually very reliable if you compare them to the German cars from 10 or 20 years ago. Despite Audi's extra mass, front heavy balance and spongy brakes, it still beat the GS in braking distance, 0-60 MPH and the slalom.
LEX-SV Posted February 9, 2012 Posted February 9, 2012 No doubt the numbers of the Audi beat the GS350 (although wasn't this a non-sport version of the GS), at least it helps to justify the higher price tag. Audi's extra mass, front heavy balance and spongy brakes does nothing for subjective handling feel or fun to drive ratings. Agreed, CR provide better reliabiity ratings and data to support it. Although C&D and R&T does some long-term testing and often the Audi's show above average number of issues/repairs during the long-term test period.
The G Man Posted February 9, 2012 Author Posted February 9, 2012 No doubt the numbers of the Audi beat the GS350 (although wasn't this a non-sport version of the GS), at least it helps to justify the higher price tag. Audi's extra mass, front heavy balance and spongy brakes does nothing for subjective handling feel or fun to drive ratings. Agreed, CR provide better reliabiity ratings and data to support it. Although C&D and R&T does some long-term testing and often the Audi's show above average number of issues/repairs during the long-term test period. I think the GS350 had the F-sport package vs the A6 with the sport package. You really need to test drive the new A6, it does not drive front heavy at all and it drives like a much smaller lighter car, very agile. I found this one article for long term testing on the A6. In 40000 miles, the A6 had 5 unscheduled visits, mostly minor issues, beating out the Acura TL's 8 unscheduled visits. http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2005-audi-a6-32-quattro-long-term-road-test
LEX-SV Posted February 9, 2012 Posted February 9, 2012 No doubt the numbers of the Audi beat the GS350 (although wasn't this a non-sport version of the GS), at least it helps to justify the higher price tag. Audi's extra mass, front heavy balance and spongy brakes does nothing for subjective handling feel or fun to drive ratings. Agreed, CR provide better reliabiity ratings and data to support it. Although C&D and R&T does some long-term testing and often the Audi's show above average number of issues/repairs during the long-term test period. I think the GS350 had the F-sport package vs the A6 with the sport package. You really need to test drive the new A6, it does not drive front heavy at all and it drives like a much smaller lighter car, very agile. I found this one article for long term testing on the A6. In 40000 miles, the A6 had 5 unscheduled visits, mostly minor issues, beating out the Acura TL's 8 unscheduled visits. http://www.caranddri...-term-road-test Agreed, A6 test drive is in order. 5 unscheduled visits, ,mostly minor issues, no comment. TL, is non-premium car but obviosly Acura is slipping. "Our test car was a standard GS350", non-F.
cduluk Posted February 9, 2012 Posted February 9, 2012 I still don't see how the Audi is in any way aesthetically attractive. I understand looks are subjective, but personally i don't find the Audi to be in any way appealing- except for the fact that it's "known" for being superior as a sports sedan. I just can't relate to the writers of that article when they seem to admire the "roof line" and what not... i just don't see it; just like i don't get how girls find men attractive! So if the general population of sports sedan buyers finds the Audi to be attractive (even with it's "third" window behind the rear passenger windows) and doesn't mind the permanent Olympic games logo on the front grille, then i can see why Lexus needed to make some changes to the GS's design. It must be difficult for a company to compete in a market that's already dominated by several other products. Lexus has always been most successful when they "did their own thing", first with the introduction of the LS which was SO far ahead of it's time (some of the standard features on the 1990 LS still aren't found on cars of today), and then with the Rx300 being the first true luxury SUV. It's hard to believe that today Lexus has to "catch up" to stay in the game...
SW03ES Posted February 9, 2012 Posted February 9, 2012 i think the new Audis are VERY attractive. Their designs are very simple and elegant, which I like. The A6 isn't as attractive as the A8 (which just might be best in class in my opinion as far as looks). But the A6, A5, A8, Q5 are all very attractive cars I think.
LEX-SV Posted February 9, 2012 Posted February 9, 2012 My favorite Audis from a styling standpoint are A5, Q5, A4 in that order. The rest are ok.
The G Man Posted February 9, 2012 Author Posted February 9, 2012 I still don't see how the Audi is in any way aesthetically attractive. I understand looks are subjective, but personally i don't find the Audi to be in any way appealing- except for the fact that it's "known" for being superior as a sports sedan. I just can't relate to the writers of that article when they seem to admire the "roof line" and what not... i just don't see it; just like i don't get how girls find men attractive! So if the general population of sports sedan buyers finds the Audi to be attractive (even with it's "third" window behind the rear passenger windows) and doesn't mind the permanent Olympic games logo on the front grille, then i can see why Lexus needed to make some changes to the GS's design. I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I must say, most people disagree with you. Audi has won many design award for its current line up. The most recent being the EyesOn Design Award At Detroit Auto Show for the redesign 2012 A6. http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1053588_2012-audi-a6-wins-eyeson-design-award-at-detroit-auto-show
The G Man Posted February 9, 2012 Author Posted February 9, 2012 Agreed, A6 test drive is in order. 5 unscheduled visits, ,mostly minor issues, no comment. TL, is non-premium car but obviosly Acura is slipping. "Our test car was a standard GS350", non-F. Unfortunately, I cannot find a long term road test by car and driver for the GS350, but I can tell you that my 08 GS350 AWD had more than 5 unscheduled visits in less than one year. It might have been my bad luck, the other 4 Lexus I had owned in the pass have been very relaible. Did I say TL in my last post, I mean the RL. You are correct, the GS in the test is a non F Sport and the A6 had the 19" sport package. Its a bit surprising to me that a non sport packaged GS ride stiffer than a A6 with the sport package. The A6 SP rides pretty stiff already, I hate feel how stiff the ride is on a F-Sport equipped GS. I think Lexus might have gone over board a bit with the suspension on the GS, but I will reserve that comment until I test drive the GS350 next week.
cduluk Posted February 9, 2012 Posted February 9, 2012 Damn... i guess i'm just an odd one! It probably doesn't help my case any that i love the design of the 2011+ Cadillac CTS coupe. Everyone else seems to think it's ugly!
LEX-SV Posted February 9, 2012 Posted February 9, 2012 Agreed, A6 test drive is in order. 5 unscheduled visits, ,mostly minor issues, no comment. TL, is non-premium car but obviosly Acura is slipping. "Our test car was a standard GS350", non-F. Unfortunately, I cannot find a long term road test by car and driver for the GS350, but I can tell you that my 08 GS350 AWD had more than 5 unscheduled visits in less than one year. It might have been my bad luck, the other 4 Lexus I had owned in the pass have been very relaible. Did I say TL in my last post, I mean the RL. You are correct, the GS in the test is a non F Sport and the A6 had the 19" sport package. Its a bit surprising to me that a non sport packaged GS ride stiffer than a A6 with the sport package. The A6 SP rides pretty stiff already, I hate feel how stiff the ride is on a F-Sport equipped GS. I think Lexus might have gone over board a bit with the suspension on the GS, but I will reserve that comment until I test drive the GS350 next week. Yes, AWD Lexus sedans have a unfavorable reliability history, many of us are well aware of this. Other and most Lexus products have done much better. RL is just a failure, complete sales flop btw. I heard the GS is at dealer now. I'll drive one soon. My taste tends to favor somewhat firmly suspended cars, probably result of owning several Porsches, etc. My IS350 equipped with sport package is on 19's with F-Sport springs (Eibach being the OEM supplier of these Eibach 350 progressive rate springs), summer tires (T1R) so the effect is very BMW sport package-like.
LEX-SV Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 Damn... i guess i'm just an odd one! It probably doesn't help my case any that i love the design of the 2011+ Cadillac CTS coupe. Everyone else seems to think it's ugly! Eeewwww, but you aren't the only odd one out, lol and jk. I've already commented on outdated-Escalade-derived styling of CTS sedan, but at least the coupe is original. The only Audi that I find to have outstanding styling is A5, love it. In terms of mid-sized sport sedans (on topic) I find the styling of the new and highly successful 5 series to be best in class (most other premium car owners would agree with me and the sales numbers support this too). I'm putting the new GS in 2nd place styling-wise.
cduluk Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 Damn... i guess i'm just an odd one! It probably doesn't help my case any that i love the design of the 2011+ Cadillac CTS coupe. Everyone else seems to think it's ugly! Eeewwww, but you aren't the only odd one out, lol and jk. I've already commented on outdated-Escalade-derived styling of CTS sedan, but at least the coupe is original. The only Audi that I find to have outstanding styling is A5, love it. In terms of mid-sized sport sedans (on topic) I find the styling of the new and highly successful 5 series to be best in class (most other premium car owners would agree with me and the sales numbers support this too). I'm putting the new GS in 2nd place styling-wise. Indeed, the CTS coupe is original for sure; i think that's why i like it! I seem to favor cars that are unique and have nothing else like it... The only thing i'll give Audi is the advent of using LED's as DRL's... I'm not really a "fan" but they're very unique and i like that.
The G Man Posted February 10, 2012 Author Posted February 10, 2012 Eeewwww, but you aren't the only odd one out, lol and jk. I've already commented on outdated-Escalade-derived styling of CTS sedan, but at least the coupe is original. The only Audi that I find to have outstanding styling is A5, love it. In terms of mid-sized sport sedans (on topic) I find the styling of the new and highly successful 5 series to be best in class (most other premium car owners would agree with me and the sales numbers support this too). I'm putting the new GS in 2nd place styling-wise. I like the CTS coupe as well, the sedan not as much. The sharp angles of the CTS is carry thru out the whole design, where as the GS only sharp angles in the front and the angles rounded off in the rest of the car, almost looks like two different cars from the front to rear. The A5 use to be my favorite Audi design, if it had 4 doors, I would have bought one. The new A7 design is very nice as well, its a bit too pricey for me though. The new 5 series' design is very traditional, certainly a big improvement over the last gen. The interior remains very boring and performance not worthy of the BMW badge. Not sure how anyone can justify apying $10K more for the 5 series over the A6 and $15K more than the GS350. Globely, the A6 out sells the 5 series, in the US, the 5 series is the number 1 selling mid size luxury sedan.
SW03ES Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 I don't see how someone can like the A4 and not like the A6 and A8...its the same styling language, and I think lt looks a little stubby and frumpy on the A4...
LEXIRX330 Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 Man...I love the looks of the Audi line up! Got a guy that lives in the development that has a A8... and WOW...that thing is SWeeeeeeTTT!
The G Man Posted February 10, 2012 Author Posted February 10, 2012 The A8 has one of the most comfortable front seat I have ever sat in. The LED headlights are nice too :)
LEX-SV Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 I drool when I see a A5. Driving it was nice too, but the looks and proportions are just right.
The G Man Posted February 13, 2012 Author Posted February 13, 2012 The A5 has to be one of the best looking Audi ever made. The lines and shape are almost perfect. The 2.0T engine is a bit under power, but its a fun car ro drive.
The G Man Posted February 18, 2012 Author Posted February 18, 2012 I just had a test drive in the GS350, all I can say is wow. The handling and the interior is amazing, the front seats are much more comfortable than my A6's. Handling is very quick and precise, the car feels very agile and light. In my opinion, it handles better than my A6 and the interior is just as nice. The interior material quality is a bit better than the A6 as well, the front end is my least favorite part of the car, it looks after market and added on. It doesnt pull like the A6 accelartaion wise, you really have to rev up the GS to get any kind of pull. MSRP is about the same as the A6 if you get the GS with AWD. Overall, a gaint step forward for the GS compare to my 08 GS, but I dont think the Germans will lose sleep over the new GS.
The G Man Posted February 21, 2012 Author Posted February 21, 2012 The ride wasnt too bad, better than I thought it would be. I would say the ride is about the same my 08 GS350, but the 08 GS had run flats which made the ride rougher than it need to be. Handling wise, there is no comaparison between the two.
SW03ES Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 I just drove it today, I too was very impressed with the car, and I must say every time I see it in person I like the styling more than the time before. Interior is great, and the handling is superb without really giving much up in the area of ride comfort or noise. So overall, I'm a fan... -Steve
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