Hyundai & Kia Beats Lexus ?

[pj8708]

Very thorough article about both Hyundai and Kia's luxury car strategy against Lexus and German makes. This information is a perfect companion to a lengthy discussion in the ES350 forum a few weeks ago. Very lively. Worth the read.

http://autos.aol.com/article/hyundai-kia-luxury-cars/?icid=maing-grid10%7Chtmlws-main-bb%7Cdl18%7Csec3_lnk3%7C108186

[RX350lover]

Very interesting read, thanks for the link. Maybe Lexus will get off its a** and bring innovative products to the market in response to the competition. For sure sales will go down at Lexus if they don't. There won't be many reasons to buy a Lexus IF Hyundai can get its act together and that includes the dealers and the reliability of the product. Why pay more to get less?

[1990LS400]

Well .,. as I think I reported in that last thread, I test drove a "basic" rear wheel drive Hyundai Equus and then a fairly basic all wheel drive Lexus LS460L on Columbus Day. Both cars had air suspension and the Equus had a higher level of equipment while listing at over $20,000 less than the LS460L.

I could have driven the Equus all day but I couldn't wait for my drive of the LS460L to be over. Seriously, the LS460L just wasn't pleasant to drive compared to the Equus and I just wanted to get it back to the Lexus dealership and get it over with.

Not counting the ancient 1956 190SL I bought when a "kid" in 1969, I drove "modern" Mercedes (450SEL, 240D) from the 1970's to when I bought my first Lexus LS in early 1990. Since 1990, I've drive a Lexus LS almost every day.

It is clear to me that, with cars the Equus, Hyundai could do the same thing to Lexus that Lexus did to Mercedes 20+ years ago and without the "baggage" of having a separate dealer network.

The King is dead. Long live the King!

[pj8708]

Well .,. as I think I reported in that last thread, I test drove a "basic" rear wheel drive Hyundai Equus and then a fairly basic all wheel drive Lexus LS460L on Columbus Day. Both cars had air suspension and the Equus had a higher level of equipment while listing at over $20,000 less than the LS460L.

I could have driven the Equus all day but I couldn't wait for my drive of the LS460L to be over. Seriously, the LS460L just wasn't pleasant to drive compared to the Equus and I just wanted to get it back to the Lexus dealership and get it over with.

Not counting the ancient 1956 190SL I bought when a "kid" in 1969, I drove "modern" Mercedes (450SEL, 240D) from the 1970's to when I bought my first Lexus LS in early 1990. Since 1990, I've drive a Lexus LS almost every day.

It is clear to me that, with cars the Equus, Hyundai could do the same thing to Lexus that Lexus did to Mercedes 20+ years ago and without the "baggage" of having a separate dealer network.

The King is dead. Long live the King!

I've never driven a LS460, so I'm curious as to what it was more specifically that you didn't like about the LS460L. Such as too stiff, too soft etc.

[1990LS400]

I've never driven a LS460, so I'm curious as to what it was more specifically that you didn't like about the LS460L. Such as too stiff, too soft etc.

I found the LS460L to feel "dead" and completely "boat like" in that it seems like it is even larger than it is. I guess it responded compentently but it felt far from nimble. Don't get me wrong -- it is an incredibly well put together car. What I dislike most (no, HATE) about the LS460 is the view from the driver's seat. The front, side and rear windows feel so "compressed" and short. I got off to a bad start simply backing out of a parking space at the dealership. Whoa! Using the rear camera and looking at the nav screen seemed essential to back up the car -- sure can't see out the back window.

The Hyundai Equus on the other hand felt smaller than it is and was much more fun to drive. It's windows are a bit small too but I didn't notice it nearly as much. Within the first 1/4 mile of driving the Equus, I took a tight traffic circle at a fairly high rate of speed. It was fun. It would not have been enjoyable in the LS460L.

The really curious thing about driving the LS460L was that getting back into my 00 LS400 felt like such a relief. As I drove away in my old LS, my main thought was that I should not be liking an 11 1/2 year old LS400 far more than a shiny new LS460L. I really want to like the LS460 but I can't make myself do it. It's as if Toyota is going in a direction with the LS that is completely foreign to my taste in cars.

I know at some point I'm going to have to buy another car and I want to be ready to buy something I will really like for the long haul. As I've sometimes joked, at my age my next car purchase could easily be my last. Other than one little sporty "toy" I owned from 1985 to 1990 and disregarding my wife's more numerous car purchases, I've owned only three cars since 1979 with driving each about a decade. I like nice, comfortable, roomy reliable cars. I've actually considered a fairly modestly equipped Porche Panameria but I don't know if I could live with it over the long haul and I don't like the thought of being at the mercy of the one local Porsche dealer.

With an 11+ year old LS, I know I'm just one major fender bender away from having to buy another car. Right now, it looks like the Equus would be the best choice for me. I really don't want to sound like I'm trashing the LS460. It's a very high quality car and many if not most people would love to have one.

[SW03ES]

I personally prefer the LS460 to the LS460L. I think the LWB model is just too long, and makes it feel ungainly to drive.

Having basically owned a 98 LS400, a 04 LS430, and looking extensively at LS430s and LS460s before I decided on my ES350 last year...I just don't see how they drive that differently. If anything I think the 460 is a little tauter and more handling focused than the 430 or 400...but overall the ride and drive is so similar if your eyes were shut I personally thought you'd have a hard time knowing which one you were in. That and pretty much every review of the Equus when they compare it to the LS note that the feel is close, but not quite there yet giving the LS the edge.

I think maybe after 20 years of driving the LS you just want something different...which there is nothing wrong with.

[pj8708]

Jim I felt that same "Out of body/car" feeling last year when I switched from my ES330 to the 2010 ES350. It took me a long time to get used to the fact that I couldn't see out of the back window without looking at the rear view screen, and that required me to take my eyes off of the mirrors while backing and look down at the center of the dash. Still is awkward! I also found the ES350 cabin to be sparse and void of those real wood touches that the 2005 ES330 had. It just looked cheap. Now, I think it looks contemporary, and to slap on the amount of wood the old 330 had would make it look like an "Old mans" car. (That by the way includes me.)

It's just what your used to I guess. If I've been in the same car for 11 1/2 years, anything would feel very strange. It's like loosing your favorite recliner in front of the T.V. I'm going to have to drive an LS and see what it's like. I have toyed with the idea once in a while of buying a lightly used one, but never thought I wanted to try an convince my self that an $85,000 car is an asset instead of a deep hole of depreciating value and no tax write off when your retired.

[SW03ES]

Yeah visibility and the L-finesse design language don't come hand in hand...

[LS600HL4ME]

First time post on site,

I have to say honesty here.

I own the Lexus LS600HL 100th Anniversary Neiman Marcus "Launch Edition".

I am looking to sell it it soon on Ebay.

But I went yesterday and test drove several cars, and the Hyundia Equus with the Ultimate Package, was very impressive, I almost felt I stepped out of the LS600 and back into it again. The features in the Equus were simply great, the drive very good. It was $65,400 car, my Launch Edition was $125k,,,,,,

I am seriouly considering the Equus....Look into ebay for My LS600HL only 100 of these made in the World...this is number 12..thanks Bruce

[pj8708]

First time post on site,

I have to say honesty here.

I own the Lexus LS600HL 100th Anniversary Neiman Marcus "Launch Edition".

I am looking to sell it it soon on Ebay.

But I went yesterday and test drove several cars, and the Hyundai Equus with the Ultimate Package, was very impressive, I almost felt I stepped out of the LS600 and back into it again. The features in the Equus were simply great, the drive very good. It was $65,400 car, my Launch Edition was $125k,,,,,,

I am seriouly considering the Equus....Look into ebay for My LS600HL only 100 of these made in the World...this is number 12..thanks Bruce

All of us kind of envy your ability to have such a superior car, but to compare your LS600HL to the Equus is an incredible endorsement of Hyundai's efforts indeed. I think your comments need to remind us not to get to complacent.

Regarding selling your LS, would you take a $1.00 down and a $1.00 a week? Thats what I could afford. LOL

Thank you for posting. It's always good to get more information and opinions.