Speedometer Error

[K.C. Dia]

Pretty much any car I have every had, from any manufacturer, reads a little higher than reality.

ok, conspiracy theory is on

must be a known industry gimmick to save money on warranty work

i have to check mine

does the nav show mph? don't remember seeing that, but i don't use it much

thanks steve

No it doesn't. You need a Garmin or other after market GPS for that.

You do love your Garmin don't you. LOL!!

Gee, is it that obvious! My wife, sister in law, and I am taking a trip to Italy and Austria in three weeks. I have all our hotels programmed into the Garmin, so it should take us to their front doors.

[pj8708]

What a great trip!! I envy you.

As you know, I have a Garmin as well as the Nav in my 2010 ES. Did you have to purchase a download for the Garmin of European countries or individual countries?

Paul

[SW03ES]

I don't think it has anything to do with warranty work...I think its an industry accepted practice, promotes safety, avoids liability for people saying the speedometer reads UNDER actual speed...etc.

[pj8708]

I don't think it has anything to do with warranty work...I think its an industry accepted practice, promotes safety, avoids liability for people saying the speedometer reads UNDER actual speed...etc.

In addition guys, have you looked at the face of your speedometer lately?..its not even segmented like an accurate instrument. The speeds are in 5 mph increments, and the km aren't much better. There aren't even any designations for the most popular speed limits. If you can tell PRECISELY & UNEQUIVOCALLY that the speedometer face is as accurate as a laboratory test instrument, then you'd have an argument.

If you truly think their out to cheat you out of your full warranty, write Lexus and tell them. Don't just whine about it. Show them your "proof".

[K.C. Dia]

What a great trip!! I envy you.

As you know, I have a Garmin as well as the Nav in my 2010 ES. Did you have to purchase a download for the Garmin of European countries or individual countries?

Paul

I actually have four Garmins, three Nuvis and a handheld Etrix HCx. My old Street Pilot III finally died. One of my Garmin Nuvis has Europe already built in. I'm taking that at a backup. I have used it all over Europe on several trips and have never missed a turn or gotten lost. For my favorite go to extra widescreen Nuvi, I purchased a new Europe NT micro SD card which just slides into the side. I am also taking my handheld HCx since we are going to Venice and you can't drive there. The HCx will also navigate, I have used it in a pinch. I have a two year old CD map for it. It's not up to date but close to it.

[Django44]

don't get paranoid my texas friend, lol, I was correcting Django44 who had everything way wrong

the calculations that you did are correct

Rob, You are correct. I meant to say that my speedos (both for the 350 and the Camry) read HIGHER than my actual speed, so we are getting screwed out of ~2k of warranty. (I'm a UT '73 MA graduate but in social sciences so that's my excuse on the math!) I don't think anyone complained about readings lower than the actual speed so I think this is a deviation that Lexus/Toyota obviously builds into the car. For whatever the reason they do this it does cut short their responsibilities under the warranties. Something to think about.

[rob_es350]

ok, so all speedometers across manufacturers are reading a bit high

could be the great warranty ripoff scheme, but I think that what steve said makes sense

that is, to keep drivers going marginally slower, and to reduce their liability if someone tries to blame the gauge for a speeding mishap

[pj8708]

I just hung up from speaking with Lexus customer satisfaction for about 15 minutes. This, following a live chat with Lexus customer knowledge center.

Their response is: 1. They have not had any reports on any models, for any years, regarding speedometers reading too fast or too slow. Such a finding would result in a recall. 2. I explained the warranty question raised on this forum and they suggested someone volunteer to report their car with the problem so it can be evaluated and tested for the defect.

I would urge anyone with this problem to take them up on their request and see if you can find an answer to what seems to be a hot topic and a question of Lexus honesty.

Call 800-255-3987....option 3.

[Django44]

I just hung up from speaking with Lexus customer satisfaction for about 15 minutes. This, following a live chat with Lexus customer knowledge center.

Their response is: 1. They have not had any reports on any models, for any years, regarding speedometers reading too fast or too slow. Such a finding would result in a recall. 2. I explained the warranty question raised on this forum and they suggested someone volunteer to report their car with the problem so it can be evaluated and tested for the defect.

I would urge anyone with this problem to take them up on their request and see if you can find an answer to what seems to be a hot topic and a question of Lexus honesty.

Call 800-255-3987....option 3.

I just may call them for a test. First I want to test the accuracy using my Garmin GPS to document the variations at different speeds. I'll keep you all posted.

[SW03ES]

Was driving our 04 Prius today by the way...passed one of those radar "YOUR SPEED" deals...the speedo on the Prius is also 2MPH faster than the vehicle's actual speed.

[rob_es350]

ok, more confirmation on your thinking that it is an industry standard

makes sense from their point of view for the reasons you've cited, but it's not right..just make the freakin gauge accurate and i'll decide whether to speed or not

likely that only participants on this forum give a rat's about it though, lol

[SW03ES]

just make the freakin gauge accurate and i'll decide whether to speed or not

Unfortunately the litigious nature of the US makes that attitude on the part of a manufacturer of ANYTHING a very foolish one.

[cduluk]

Just because the speedometer may be reading a speed higher than actual, doesn't mean the odometer is incorrect. With these cars using analog speedometers and digital odometers, the two aren't actually "proportional". There isn't a single gear moving the needle and the odometer at the same time (like on old fashioned gauges)...

With today's gauges, the needles are given different "pulses" of electricity to make them read certain values. It takes more electricity to get them moving from a stop than it does to move from 20 to a different reading, and it takes a different polarity of energy to make them move in the opposite direction. There's just a computer that reads signals from the sensor that detects wheel spin (actually located in the transmission), which then creates the appropriate "pulses" of electricity required to move the speedometer needle to the desired spot. And there's an entirely different computer that controls which digits are displayed on the odometer, again using information from the sensor detecting wheel spin. So, if you were to knock out the computer that controls the needle position, your ODO would still be working.

The only way BOTH the needle and ODO could be reading incorrectly is if the sensor was reading incorrectly, which i doubt is the case. Car manufactures purposefully adjust the needle motor computer so that it reads a bit higher. They know how much to tune the needle motor, and they do this by controlling the "pulses" going to the motor- NOT by designing their wheel rotation sensors to read incorrectly.

Has anyone tried to measure the "odometer" for accuracy?

[rob_es350]

wow, great info!!

we definitely need some feedback on odometer accuracy

[pj8708]

Just because the speedometer may be reading a speed higher than actual, doesn't mean the odometer is incorrect. With these cars using analog speedometers and digital odometers, the two aren't actually "proportional". There isn't a single gear moving the needle and the odometer at the same time (like on old fashioned gauges)...

With today's gauges, the needles are given different "pulses" of electricity to make them read certain values. It takes more electricity to get them moving from a stop than it does to move from 20 to a different reading, and it takes a different polarity of energy to make them move in the opposite direction. There's just a computer that reads signals from the sensor that detects wheel spin (actually located in the transmission), which then creates the appropriate "pulses" of electricity required to move the speedometer needle to the desired spot. And there's an entirely different computer that controls which digits are displayed on the odometer, again using information from the sensor detecting wheel spin. So, if you were to knock out the computer that controls the needle position, your ODO would still be working.

The only way BOTH the needle and ODO could be reading incorrectly is if the sensor was reading incorrectly, which i doubt is the case. Car manufactures purposefully adjust the needle motor computer so that it reads a bit higher. They know how much to tune the needle motor, and they do this by controlling the "pulses" going to the motor- NOT by designing their wheel rotation sensors to read incorrectly.

Has anyone tried to measure the "odometer" for accuracy?

Knowledge is a beautiful thing. It beats conspiracy theories any day.

[K.C. Dia]

I checked the speedometer on my Chevy Silverado 4WD this morning and it was dead accurate at 60mph. Now if I could only squeeze more than 15 mpg out it, I would be more than satisfied.

[rob_es350]

anyone get the chance to check their odometer accuracy?

I am waiting to drive on a road with mile markers..none in my immediate area

[MiltB]

Based on repeated Garmin Nuvi GPS readings over about 7,500 miles and and also as observed on repeated "YOUR SPEED" doppler radar readings, I've observed that the speedometer on my 2010 ES-350 consistently reads about 2 MPH fast, and I took the car to my dealer (JM Lexus in Margate, FL) with that complaint. While I enjoyed their terrific customer waiting area (seriously--it's great!), they looked into the problem and returned the car to me about 90 minutes later. The service advisor reported that a tech checked the speedometer with a "special" computer and did a road test and confirmed that the speedometer is performing perfectly with no error. They suggest that my GPS is off! (Yeah, right!)

Interestingly, on a trip to California I took the Garmin with me and used it in a Chevrolet rental car. The GPS speeds and Chevy speedometer speeds were identical.

Like other posters, I can live with the error because I get the correct speed on the Garmin. The Lexus approach to this does seem way "head-in-the-sand" to me!

Like the man said, your mileage may vary. Literally!

--MiltB

[rob_es350]

hey, holiday weekend, someone must be traveling on a road with mile markers

if so, please check odometer accuracy for us

thanks

[Django44]

Well, I just made a 1600 mile round trip to Quebec from Northern Virginia and I had a chance to compare my 2008 ES 350 odometer to the actual miles posted on three portions of the Interstates (I-95 and I-81) that I traveled on. While we were concerned about the speedometer giving us a low reading that might indicate we were being shortchanged on our mileage warranties, I found that the odometer readings were off as well but to our advantage. Here's what I discovered:

I checked the mile markers against the car's odo readings on three 70-mile sections (one in VA on I-95, one in PA on I-81, and one in NY on I-81). By doing at least 70 miles (rather than just a few miles) and doing the readings in three states I hoped to average out any major differences in roadways, the way state DOT's marked their miles, or other anomalies. The ES 350 read short in all three cases. That is, for the actual 70 miles measured by the markers the ES 350 read 68.6, 68.58 and 68.83 miles, respectively. That results in an average reading on the ES 350 about 1.9% lower than the actual miles traveled. If I'm right (and please correct me if I'm not), this means we are actually getting almost 2% more warranty coverage if we are using mileage (as opposed to the 48 month coverage period) as the warranty coverage limit. This may be a case of Lexus playing it safe again. In any case, don't tell Lexus.

[SW03ES]

One thing I realized on a recent trip is that the average speed digital readout is NOT off. So with the cruise set at 80 on the speedo, reset average speed and it reads 78...

[rob_es350]

Well, I just made a 1600 mile round trip to Quebec from Northern Virginia and I had a chance to compare my 2008 ES 350 odometer to the actual miles posted on three portions of the Interstates (I-95 and I-81) that I traveled on. While we were concerned about the speedometer giving us a low reading that might indicate we were being shortchanged on our mileage warranties, I found that the odometer readings were off as well but to our advantage. Here's what I discovered:

I checked the mile markers against the car's odo readings on three 70-mile sections (one in VA on I-95, one in PA on I-81, and one in NY on I-81). By doing at least 70 miles (rather than just a few miles) and doing the readings in three states I hoped to average out any major differences in roadways, the way state DOT's marked their miles, or other anomalies. The ES 350 read short in all three cases. That is, for the actual 70 miles measured by the markers the ES 350 read 68.6, 68.58 and 68.83 miles, respectively. That results in an average reading on the ES 350 about 1.9% lower than the actual miles traveled. If I'm right (and please correct me if I'm not), this means we are actually getting almost 2% more warranty coverage if we are using mileage (as opposed to the 48 month coverage period) as the warranty coverage limit. This may be a case of Lexus playing it safe again. In any case, don't tell Lexus.

wow, what's going on!!!

everyone reporting higher speedo readings than actual, and now we see that actual mileage is LESS than actual??

well, if true, speedo and odo are not sync'd, as someone speculated here, but at least the odo is working in our favor

[rob_es350]

One thing I realized on a recent trip is that the average speed digital readout is NOT off. So with the cruise set at 80 on the speedo, reset average speed and it reads 78...

ok, steve, that's interesting, verifies what someone speculated that the analog speedo is hosed, but does not affect the digital readings...well, perhaps not average speed reading, but we now have evidence that the digital odo is off in the OTHER direction

can't make any sense out of how the digital readings are not synched

[SW03ES]

I think what we're seeing is just that these gauges aren't very precise...

[rob_es350]

I think what we're seeing is just that these gauges aren't very precise...

yeah, that does seem to be the case....guess we are making too much of it

can't control all the variables either, like tire pressure