Which Tire To Purchase?

[pharmwriter]

Took my '08 to my dealer a few days ago for my 20K service (I'm at 19,665) and was told that I need to get 2 tires replaced. I went to Costco for a 2nd opinion and was told that I have 3/32 tread left on all 4 tires, and probably about another 3K-5K miles to go before I need to get new ones.

Having done my forum research (awesome tool, BTW), it looks as if the wear and tear is pretty normal. I have Bridgestone Turanzas EL400, P215/55R17 93V.

I've narrowed the new tires down to 2 brands based on the tires that are the most recommended on different tire sites: either replacing the tires with new Turanzas, or with Michelin Energy MXV4 S8. Any opinions on the Michelin's?

Also, has anyone tried to use their Bridgestone warranty? I figured I would try that route; it never hurts to ask.

Thanks in advance.

[wlfng2005]

already replacing new tires @ 20k miles? Man, that sucks!

Anyways, in my opinion the energy MXV4 is pretty decent with good traction (both wet and dry), comfortable, and low road noise. I have 4 of these on my Lexus ES 300 so I can tell. However, the bad thing about these tires is that they wears off quick, so if you are into long tread life, then you should look for something else.

Can't comment on the turanzas since I never had it. I heard michelin Harmony is pretty good: good tread life (80k mile), comfortable, very quiet, good traction. I suggest you check it out and give it a try.

[tim john]

I have Michelin Pilot Exalto a/s on my 04 ES. Quiet and very smooth ride. Check Tire rack.com for reviews. I don't understand why they put crappy tires on new cars.

Tim

[SW03ES]

I've narrowed the new tires down to 2 brands based on the tires that are the most recommended on different tire sites: either replacing the tires with new Turanzas, or with Michelin Energy MXV4 S8. Any opinions on the Michelin's?

Niether. Look at the Michelin Primacy MXV4, cheaper and better than the S8s and with a treadwear warranty while the MXV4 S8 has none. The S8s are really only an OEM tire...most tire shops don't even stock them, they have the Primacys.

[pharmwriter]

Thanks everyone. I think the Energies are pretty popular around here; I had made calls to some shops and they're in stock. But I will definitely look into the ones you all suggested.

In regards to Tim John's comment, I think my car had Michelin's at the time of purchase. The car came with chrome wheels and was not included in the purchase price, so the dealership took them off and probably the Michelin's too, and replaced the tires with the Bridgestone Turanzas. I didn't give it a second thought until I was looking through my paperwork yesterday and saw that they had given me a Michelin warranty guide, not a Bridgestone.

[mhawkin1]

I echo SW's comment. I had the S8's and hated them. I bought the Primacy's and love them. They are fantastic. Even when I drive a loaner ES with 3-5k miles on it.... I can totally tell how much smoother and quieter my car is due to the Primacy's.

[SW03ES]

Trust us...you really don't want the Energy S8...the Primacy is a better tire with better specs and reviews, a treadlife warranty where the S8 has none...and they are cheaper. My set has 40,000 miles on it and probably has another 10k to go, and my Energy MXV4+ I had before were done at 30k.

[wlfng2005]

guys, what about the michelin HARMONY? it has great reviews, did any one try it out yet?

[SW03ES]

The Harmony is not of the appropriate speed rating for the ES. Its a good tire for a minivan or something like that, but to get the best ride out of a car like the ES you need a grand touring tire.

[wlfng2005]

so I took the advise and went ahead to buy 4 NEW michelin primacy (H rated)...Afterward, my previous tires which were the Energy...felt like junk. These primacy tires are incredibly smooth, quiet, good traction. The only noise I hear is other car's noise and the engine...Although it is quite expensive, but let me tell ya, these things worth every penny. I am glad that I took the advise and go for it.

Anyways, here is what I paid for, please let me know if I got a good/bad deal:

+4 New Michelin primacy MXV4(H-rated) size=P205/R65/15

+Installation+Balancing for all 4

+Tire Replacement Warranty (for the rest of the tires' lives) for all 4

+4-Environmental Fee

+4-Tire disposal

+California Tax (I hate this)

=>Came out to be $541.60 (From America's Tires)

[pharmwriter]

so I took the advise and went ahead to buy 4 NEW michelin primacy (H rated)...Afterward, my previous tires which were the Energy...felt like junk. These primacy tires are incredibly smooth, quiet, good traction. The only noise I hear is other car's noise and the engine...Although it is quite expensive, but let me tell ya, these things worth every penny. I am glad that I took the advise and go for it.

Anyways, here is what I paid for, please let me know if I got a good/bad deal:

+4 New Michelin primacy MXV4(H-rated) size=P205/R65/15

+Installation+Balancing for all 4

+Tire Replacement Warranty (for the rest of the tires' lives) for all 4

+4-Environmental Fee

+4-Tire disposal

+California Tax (I hate this)

=>Came out to be $541.60 (From America's Tires)

I priced them via the America's Tire Web site at $159/ea, or $636 for 4 tires for my size (255/55/R17). Sounds like you got a good deal. Where in CA are you? I'm in Orange County, in Southern CA. Did you use the AT price or did you come in with competitor pricing?

Thanks to all of you for your feedback. As soon as I scrimp a few (hundred) pennies together I'll get my tires replaced. Sounds like Primacy is my best bet!

[wlfng2005]

so I took the advise and went ahead to buy 4 NEW michelin primacy (H rated)...Afterward, my previous tires which were the Energy...felt like junk. These primacy tires are incredibly smooth, quiet, good traction. The only noise I hear is other car's noise and the engine...Although it is quite expensive, but let me tell ya, these things worth every penny. I am glad that I took the advise and go for it.

Anyways, here is what I paid for, please let me know if I got a good/bad deal:

+4 New Michelin primacy MXV4(H-rated) size=P205/R65/15

+Installation+Balancing for all 4

+Tire Replacement Warranty (for the rest of the tires' lives) for all 4

+4-Environmental Fee

+4-Tire disposal

+California Tax (I hate this)

=>Came out to be $541.60 (From America's Tires)

I priced them via the America's Tire Web site at $159/ea, or $636 for 4 tires for my size (255/55/R17). Sounds like you got a good deal. Where in CA are you? I'm in Orange County, in Southern CA. Did you use the AT price or did you come in with competitor pricing?

Thanks to all of you for your feedback. As soon as I scrimp a few (hundred) pennies together I'll get my tires replaced. Sounds like Primacy is my best bet!

I am located in San Jose, which is Northern CA. Here is how I got my price:

-I called around to different shops/dealers and ask for a quote on these 4 primacy tires and take notes carefully. I then, check my tire's price at tirerack.com and realize that they have the cheapest prices. So I went ahead and go to America's tire website to get a quote and apparently their price is 10 dollars more than what I get from tirerack. Thus, I filed a "price match" request with tirerack, and within 24 hours, I was contacted by a representative regarding the pricing. He spent 10 minutes trying to persuade me that they got the lowest price when everything factors in and tirerack price is not as low as I think since it does not factor in taxes and installation, etc...He told me that his best price is $590 after all the fees. I told him that I will call him back after I do a price research on the tire. I waited one day, and I called him back to discuss about the price. But this time, I am well-prepared. I told him that I called around 8-10 blah blah blah different shops/dealers regarding price quote, and two of them told me that they would honor tirerack's price and the out of the door price would be $530 (I came up with the number myself by calculating America's tire costs with $110 per tire). He asked me if the price is after the $70 rebate -> I said no, it is BEFORE the rebate. I also told him that "blah blah blah" (which is the name of a shop I made up LOL) is giving out this offer, and I think America Tire should able to beat that. I continue by saying that I would want to go with America's tires since they have good reputation but this shop's attractive price is holding me back. Boom, he agreed and gave me a quote of $520 for all 4 tires including all other fees...

sorry if I wrote a bit too long....just hope that it benefit someone else as it did for me...I saved myself (590-530=$60), my sister $100, and my friend $75. The last time I checked, Costco's prices are even higher than this.

[pharmwriter]

I ended up with Energies.

I went to both Costco and a local tire shop with a good reputation. They both said, based on Lexus manufacturing recommendations and the tires I have now, I needed to go with a V speed rating. Having tires with H ratings will cause problems in the long run in regards to wear and tear and handling, and both shops would require me to sign a waiver stating that I understood I was going against the manufacturer's tire recommended specs. Since safety is a factor, I didn't want to take a chance.

I got the tires at Costco and paid $855.

[SW03ES]

Thats a shame...I think you paid way too much for an inferior tire.

[wlfng2005]

Thats a shame...I think you paid way too much for an inferior tire.

I think so too, and the energies' treadwear is pretty bad too...the price is way too high for 4 tires.

[peteanello]

Trust us...you really don't want the Energy S8...the Primacy is a better tire with better specs and reviews, a treadlife warranty where the S8 has none...and they are cheaper. My set has 40,000 miles on it and probably has another 10k to go, and my Energy MXV4+ I had before were done at 30k.

I'll be needing tires on my '09 ES in about 6 months and I was encouraged to read about the Primacy Tires, because of all the great comments. So, that was going to be my next set of tires (my ES came with Turzana) until I did some investigating.

Here is what consumer reports has to say:

For owners looking at tire replacement, we don’t recommend downgrading because it introduces a safety risk. Tires with higher speed ratings generally have better steering response and cornering grip than lower-speed rated tires, in addition to being capable of higher speeds. So if your car originally came with H-rated tires, that’s what you should replace them with. After all, the automaker spent millions on testing the car with that specific configuration, including suspension and braking systems.

Sticking with H-rated tires comes at a cost. While we found prices are similar to S- and T-rated tires, H-rated tires didn’t last as long in our treadwear test--an average of 49,180 miles, versus 61,080 for our S- and T-rated tires. V-rated tires had an even shorter tread life of 48,260 miles. Mileages are projected to wear-out, based on Consumer Report 16,000 mile wear tests.

Here is a link to the page: http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2009/10/hrated-tires-with-shorter-life-spans-become-more-common.html

Also, today I dropped of another vehicle to have it detailed. The shop specializes in tires/brakes/shocks. I asked the owner if it was okay to put H Rated Tires on a vehicle that came from the factory with V Rated tires. He said absolutely not, because it would be unsafe.

So, now I guess my choice will be limited to the Turzana or Energy.

[SW03ES]

For a long, long time I agreed with you. However, due much in part to the urging of people here I went to H rated tires on my car when I bought the Primacys. There is no handling difference. Going one speed rating down isn't the end of the world. I would tell you never to put S or T rated tires on the car...but to go from a V to an H rated tire isn't an issue. Much of the construction of an H rated and V rated tire are exactly the same...its not like looking at an S rated tire and a V rated tire.

Don't trust tire shops automatically. I've had tire shops tell me and do some crazy things over the years like mount directional tires backwards, use clip on weights under trim rings so they stick out...crazy stuff.

For instance the LS430 came with tires with an H rating from the factory when the LS400 always shipped with a V rating, and its heavier and higher powered than the ES. The Camry also comes with S rated tires in some trim levels and much of the suspension is the same as on the ES. Even if it weren't...the suspension is the same on all models of the Camry...so how can some have S rated tires and some have V rated tires?

I absolutely would not pay $50 more per tire to by the Energy S8 which is a crappy tire with poor treadwear, no treadwear warranty, and poor survey results when I could buy the Primacy which is a MUCH better tire. I've run the H rated Primacy on my ES which shipped with V rated tires for 40,000 miles with zero issues whatsoever. The Primacy comes in a V rating in my size...but I'll replace mine with another set of Hs.

Google and find a case of an accident that happened because tires of a lower speed rating were installed on a car...there aren't any.

[peteanello]

I agree with everything you say. And I really want the quietness of the Primacy. But I'm a worry wort and people are sue happy. I'm not an agressive driver, but sometimes I like to put the ES through its paces. So, if I purchase a lower rated tire and drive 2 -3 hours, somewhat over the speed limit, in 100 - 115 degree weather and the lower rated tire fails and I get in a BIG wreck with major injuries and there is a big investigation which reveals I'm running tires not recommended by the manufactuer, and I signed a waiver (assuming liability) with the tire shop, I think I would be screwed. I would have no recourse against the auto or tire manufacturer. Yes, my vehicle insurance would cover me to my limits, but there goes my house, savings, and everything else I own.

I also agree this is a one in a billion chance of happening, but I will sleep better at night knowing that potential is not there.

Now if I wanted to purchase tires for an ES owned by my 88 year old mother who wanted an absolutely quiet ride, I would probably recommend the Primacy to her because I know she only drives short distances and rarely on the freeway.

Steve, you do great work here on this board.

[SW03ES]

I've driven my Primacy's for hours at 80MPH. They are speed rated to 135MPH...the issue is not with speed at all, its with how the different tire construction affects the handling. I understand where you are coming from, but what you are describing is just as likely in a V rated tire as it is in an H rated tire...and that is extremely unlikely.

[mhawkin1]

Pet - I have a 08 ES, I had the Energy's and now have the Primacy's - it is like night and day. I am 31 and sometimes drive like I am 55 and sometimes like I stole the damn thing; the Primacy's are amazing.

The only tires my Lexus dealer recommends are the Primacy's and that is mainly what they install. If there are legal issues I am sure they wouldn’t do so, as they are hypersensitive of legal issues as I found out when the confiscated my floor mats. You will simply be amazed when you drive your car with the Primacy's.

[harryn]

I have an interesting prospective on your tire question. That is, I have the exact Bridgestones on my 10 ES and the exact Michelin tire you are considering on my other car.......a leased 09 Mazda 6 four cylinder. The Mazda has gone through 2 New Jersey winters (some snow and ice and, of course some rain so far: 23000miles) w/ the Michelins with good results. Quite honestly, I think there are better and cheaper tires of other types/brands out there than either of these. Although I do not need tires on the 10 ES yet (2500 miles), I'm not at all impressed w/ the Bridgestones and plan to buy something else when they wear out. Suggest you consider Bridgestone Potenza G019 (my daughter has a similar size on her Acura); they are very noisy but very grippy. My son had great results with several sets of Sumitomo HTR A/S P01 in a larger size on his Pontiacs and they are very inexpensive. Both are directional tires, so, if you buy either of these, make sure your shop mounts them properly and rotates them left front / left rear, right front/right rear.

Hope this gives you more insight.

harryn

[harryn]

I have an interesting prospective on your tire question. That is, I have the exact Bridgestones on my 10 ES and the exact Michelin tire you are considering on my other car.......a leased 09 Mazda 6 four cylinder. The Mazda has gone through 2 New Jersey winters (some snow and ice and, of course some rain so far: 23000miles) w/ the Michelins with good results. Quite honestly, I think there are better and cheaper tires of other types/brands out there than either of these. Although I do not need tires on the 10 ES yet (2500 miles), I'm not at all impressed w/ the Bridgestones and plan to buy something else when they wear out. Suggest you consider Bridgestone Potenza G019 (my daughter has a similar size on her Acura); they are very noisy but very grippy. My son had great results with several sets of Sumitomo HTR A/S P01 in a larger size on his Pontiacs and they are very inexpensive. Both are directional tires, so, if you buy either of these, make sure your shop mounts them properly and rotates them left front / left rear, right front/right rear.

Hope this gives you more insight.

harryn

[SW03ES]

Suggest you consider Bridgestone Potenza G019 (my daughter has a similar size on her Acura); they are very noisy but very grippy.

Why would you want a tire that is very noisy on a Lexus that one purchased in a large part because its so quiet?

I like the Primacy's because they are smooth and silent...thats what I bought the Lexus for.