Pixs Of Ls 460 Next To Bentley

[lex460]

I have more I will be posting like the s550...Enjoy..

[lex460]

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[MikeE123456]

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Are those Teleios chromed wheels on the LS460. Looks great. Nice comparisons - it's still the LS460 for me!

[eatingupblacktop]

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Are those Teleios chromed wheels on the LS460. Looks great. Nice comparisons - it's still the LS460 for me!

No chance of any bias here I'm sure! :whistles: Nevertheless, I like the Bentley especially as a coupe and droptop. Of course my preference, as decadent and excessive as it may be, would be the Phantom Drophead Coupe. http://www.rolls-roy...raphy/exterior/

[SW03ES]

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Are those Teleios chromed wheels on the LS460. Looks great. Nice comparisons - it's still the LS460 for me!

Really? If someone gave you a choice between a free LS460 and a free Bentley...you'd take the LS460? I hardly think so.

[MikeE123456]

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Are those Teleios chromed wheels on the LS460. Looks great. Nice comparisons - it's still the LS460 for me!

Really? If someone gave you a choice between a free LS460 and a free Bentley...you'd take the LS460? I hardly think so.

OK, sure so would I. The second thing I would do is sell the Bently, buy the LS460 and take the cash balance and use it on a (or several) trips.

[HH The Bahbi Lama]

My last two cars were the VW Phaeton, the car the Bently Flying Spur was modeled from. The key differences were the Bently came with the W12 turbocharged as well as over the top interior styling. The Phaeton was the best car I've ever driven and only settled on the LS because they quit selling them in the US. Story

[SW03ES]

OK, sure so would I. The second thing I would do is sell the Bently, buy the LS460 and take the cash balance and use it on a (or several) trips.

You're still putting money into the equation though. For people who buy a Bentley...money never enters the equation.

To compare a Bentley to an LS460 or say you would rather have the LS460 is like saying I'd rather have my rowboat...you can keep that 80' yacht. It doesn't make any sense.

[SW03ES]

OK, sure so would I. The second thing I would do is sell the Bently, buy the LS460 and take the cash balance and use it on a (or several) trips.

You're still putting money into the equation though. For people who buy a Bentley...money never enters the equation.

To compare a Bentley to an LS460 or say you would rather have the LS460 is like saying I'd rather have my rowboat...you can keep that 80' yacht. It doesn't make any sense.

My last two cars were the VW Phaeton, the car the Bently Flying Spur was modeled from. The key differences were the Bently came with the W12 turbocharged as well as over the top interior styling. The Phaeton was the best car I've ever driven and only settled on the LS because they quit selling them in the US. Story

If you loved your Phaetons so much and dislike the LS460 so by comparison, why did you get rid of the Phaeton? I mean...its not like it was old.

[lex460]

My last two cars were the VW Phaeton, the car the Bently Flying Spur was modeled from. The key differences were the Bently came with the W12 turbocharged as well as over the top interior styling. The Phaeton was the best car I've ever driven and only settled on the LS because they quit selling them in the US. Story

VW Phaeton? Couldn't give those nightmare on wheels away in this region.

[SW03ES]

To be fair that has more to do with branding than anything else. Have you driven a Phaeton? Its a great car...

Honestly, in terms of material and build quality...its better than the Lexus. I think the Lexus rides and drives better, but the Phaeton rides and drives similarly to an S class or 7 series.

The Lexus LS is a great car...my favorite car on the road today. Its not the only great car in the world though.

[lex460]

To be fair that has more to do with branding than anything else. Have you driven a Phaeton? Its a great car...

Honestly, in terms of material and build quality...its better than the Lexus. I think the Lexus rides and drives better, but the Phaeton rides and drives similarly to an S class or 7 series.

The Lexus LS is a great car...my favorite car on the road today. Its not the only great car in the world though.

[SW03ES]

LMAO. Buddy, I have been an automotive enthusiast my entire life and I have driven most of the cars on the road today. I don't have anything to prove to you or anyone else. If you want to believe that the LS is the only good car on the road and nothing else can even come close, go ahead and believe what you want. Do you have wet dreams at night because you own a "Lexus"? I'm not saying the Phaeton is more reliable than the LS, I'm saying the plastic and leather quality is better than that found in the LS nowadays. Its a really well built car...as are Audis.

The fact is that while the build and material quality of many other carmaker's product is improving, and the quality of Lexus vehicles on the whole over the last couple years has slipped somewhat. You have three generations of the car...you have to see that. The quality of the plastics and the solidness is better in your LS400...gets worse in the 430 and worse still in the 460. Look at the rearview mirrors in all three cars...the 400 and 430 have a nice unit that is color keyed to the interior. The 460 has a thin shiny plastic parts bin black unit on all the interior colors. I mean, the 460 is still a very high quality car but not as much so as the 430 or 400. Look how other carmakers have moved above Lexus in initial quality over the last few years. You say don't bring up the wind noise problem, why not? Its an awful issue for those owners. You're saying the quality of the GS is better than a Bentley too? Have you been to the GS forums on here?! The new GS has all kinds of rattle and interior quality issues. BMW...Mercedes...Jaguar...Cadillac...Lincoln...even Hyundai with the Genesis are all building much higher quality vehicles than they have in the past and Lexus needs to look out.

Saying that an LS is better built and has better quality materials than a Bentley is just...preposterous. The Bentley is a hand built machine with full wood inserts, everything in the car is wood, leather, real chrome, suede or sheepskin. The LS is obviously much cheaper than a Bentley so its to be expected.

I know more about the Lexus LS than most people have forgotten, its a great car...but there are other great cars out there too. You're going to hit me back with "Facts I want proof" blah blah blah. What proof am I going to give you? I know quality...and when I sit in a vehicle and touch and manipulate the materials and controls I can tell what is of good quality and what is of lesser quality. I'm not talking about reliability. You obviously either can't, or you're too blinded by childish brand loyalty to see it. Better than a Bentley? LMAO...thats stupid. Maybe Bentleys from 1990, but not today.

Your Movado watch must be better quality than a Rolex too right? I have a Movado but I'm not delerious enough to think its as well built as a Rolex.

Just remember...you're arguing with someone who loves the LS...and is shopping for an LS. Obviously I agree with you that its a great car but this childish "any car but my car is !Removed!" stuff is beneath us here...leave it on the Mustang and Camaro forums.

[HH The Bahbi Lama]

OK, sure so would I. The second thing I would do is sell the Bently, buy the LS460 and take the cash balance and use it on a (or several) trips.

You're still putting money into the equation though. For people who buy a Bentley...money never enters the equation.

To compare a Bentley to an LS460 or say you would rather have the LS460 is like saying I'd rather have my rowboat...you can keep that 80' yacht. It doesn't make any sense.

My last two cars were the VW Phaeton, the car the Bently Flying Spur was modeled from. The key differences were the Bently came with the W12 turbocharged as well as over the top interior styling. The Phaeton was the best car I've ever driven and only settled on the LS because they quit selling them in the US. Story

If you loved your Phaetons so much and dislike the LS460 so by comparison, why did you get rid of the Phaeton? I mean...its not like it was old.

Because my lease was up and I did't want a used car. If the Phaetons were still sold in the US I would have gotton a third. An example of the difference, after three years the interior looked brand new. The LS shows every light scrape etc. on every thing you rub against. The ride on the Phaeton is like a bank vault. Most important, no one knows you're driving an $80k car and for me that's my favorite. People that dis the Phaeton, never owned one, it's that simple.

[SW03ES]

Because my lease was up and I did't want a used car.

But it wasn't a used car...it was your car.

I mean...you still love them so much and they're your avatar on a Lexus forum. Obviously you preferred them to the Lexus...so why not just keep it? Would have been cheaper than a lease on an LS and you would have the car you wanted. Doesn't make any sense.

An example of the difference, after three years the interior looked brand new. The LS shows every light scrape etc. on every thing you rub against.

Thats one of the differences I was talking about with the new cheaper plastics. My old ES300 for instance still looks like new after 7 years and 147,000 miles however when I look at newer Lexus vehicles after a couple years I can see how easily those plastics mar...

[HH The Bahbi Lama]

Because my lease was up and I did't want a used car.

But it wasn't a used car...it was your car.

I mean...you still love them so much and they're your avatar on a Lexus forum. Obviously you preferred them to the Lexus...so why not just keep it? Would have been cheaper than a lease on an LS and you would have the car you wanted. Doesn't make any sense.

An example of the difference, after three years the interior looked brand new. The LS shows every light scrape etc. on every thing you rub against.

Thats one of the differences I was talking about with the new cheaper plastics. My old ES300 for instance still looks like new after 7 years and 147,000 miles however when I look at newer Lexus vehicles after a couple years I can see how easily those plastics mar...

Who said I paid for my lease? Nuff said.

[SW03ES]

Who said I paid for my lease? Nuff said.

Aha! Hard to argue with the free lease...

[lex460]

LMAO. Buddy, I have been an automotive enthusiast my entire life and I have driven most of the cars on the road today. I don't have anything to prove to you or anyone else. If you want to believe that the LS is the only good car on the road and nothing else can even come close, go ahead and believe what you want. Do you have wet dreams at night because you own a "Lexus"? I'm not saying the Phaeton is more reliable than the LS, I'm saying the plastic and leather quality is better than that found in the LS nowadays. Its a really well built car...as are Audis.

The fact is that while the build and material quality of many other carmaker's product is improving, and the quality of Lexus vehicles on the whole over the last couple years has slipped somewhat. You have three generations of the car...you have to see that. The quality of the plastics and the solidness is better in your LS400...gets worse in the 430 and worse still in the 460. Look at the rearview mirrors in all three cars...the 400 and 430 have a nice unit that is color keyed to the interior. The 460 has a thin shiny plastic parts bin black unit on all the interior colors. I mean, the 460 is still a very high quality car but not as much so as the 430 or 400. Look how other carmakers have moved above Lexus in initial quality over the last few years. You say don't bring up the wind noise problem, why not? Its an awful issue for those owners. You're saying the quality of the GS is better than a Bentley too? Have you been to the GS forums on here?! The new GS has all kinds of rattle and interior quality issues. BMW...Mercedes...Jaguar...Cadillac...Lincoln...even Hyundai with the Genesis are all building much higher quality vehicles than they have in the past and Lexus needs to look out.

Saying that an LS is better built and has better quality materials than a Bentley is just...preposterous. The Bentley is a hand built machine with full wood inserts, everything in the car is wood, leather, real chrome, suede or sheepskin. The LS is obviously much cheaper than a Bentley so its to be expected.

I know more about the Lexus LS than most people have forgotten, its a great car...but there are other great cars out there too. You're going to hit me back with "Facts I want proof" blah blah blah. What proof am I going to give you? I know quality...and when I sit in a vehicle and touch and manipulate the materials and controls I can tell what is of good quality and what is of lesser quality. I'm not talking about reliability. You obviously either can't, or you're too blinded by childish brand loyalty to see it. Better than a Bentley? LMAO...thats stupid. Maybe Bentleys from 1990, but not today.

Your Movado watch must be better quality than a Rolex too right? I have a Movado but I'm not delerious enough to think its as well built as a Rolex.

Just remember...you're arguing with someone who loves the LS...and is shopping for an LS. Obviously I agree with you that its a great car but this childish "any car but my car is !Removed!" stuff is beneath us here...leave it on the Mustang and Camaro forums.

OK you have maybe never watched the Megafactories or Ultimate Factories video's if not you can get them off torrents or usenet. After you watch them a few times you can go to Lexus.jp and watch the tahara plant videos. It should take more than a few hours to figure out some of the differences. when I stated that Lambo can be put together with craftsman tools I wasn't kidding watch the video. Then spend time on the forums, in my case about 15 years. A bigger picture develops then shiny plastic parts and leather. It is a culture of making the best that the Japanese can make to show the world. I learned some basic things like I want my auto made with Denso electrics not Bosch or Siemens. Lexus LS engines, transmissions you can find a better engineered and produced drivetrain? If you want to focus on the plastic parts go head when you start to understand the engineering aspects and the motivations of the people building and designing these automobiles you will have a clearer picture. Buy the service manuals and read them do the same for others slowly the light will come on..

[SW03ES]

I have seen the videos you speak of and am very familiar with the quality Lexus vehicles exude and the quality of the plants that build them. Spend time on the forums? Buddy I run this forum and have posted over 16,000 times, more than anyone else here. I've moderated and run several different car enthusiast forums since 1997. I don't have anything left about these cars to learn.

Again, I LOVE Lexus and I LOVE the LS. I don't need to be sold on the vehicles.

However, one is a fool if they don't also understand that other carmakers have been building incredibly well built cars too. The plant where VW builds the Phaeton is all glass so you can see every facet of the vehicle being built. Its an incredible plant. A Lamborghini is a performance machine...you're the one talking about Lamborghinis not me.

If you want to read about the Phaeton plant and see pictures here's a C&D article from 2003:

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/03q3/vw_s_transparent_factory-feature

Being #1 is tough and you're seeing Toyota falter right now under the spotlight with all these recalls. Plus as a culture Japan is changing, the old ways of focusing on the details and pride and shame associated with the quality of what they build are slowly being replaced with more American and more Capitalistic ways of doing business and you see that when these memos from within Toyota surface over these recalls. I have a degree is intercultural communication & business...if you think all the Japanese care about in 2010 is building good stuff...you don't know what you're talking about.

Again, I'm not saying they aren't great cars...but they aren't as great as they used to be...and other carmakers are getting pretty darn close in the quality department is what I am saying. If you don't want to believe that...thats fine but its the truth.

[lex460]

I have seen the videos you speak of and am very familiar with the quality Lexus vehicles exude and the quality of the plants that build them. Spend time on the forums? Buddy I run this forum and have posted over 16,000 times, more than anyone else here. I've moderated and run several different car enthusiast forums since 1997. I don't have anything left about these cars to learn.

Again, I LOVE Lexus and I LOVE the LS. I don't need to be sold on the vehicles.

However, one is a fool if they don't also understand that other carmakers have been building incredibly well built cars too. The plant where VW builds the Phaeton is all glass so you can see every facet of the vehicle being built. Its an incredible plant. A Lamborghini is a performance machine...you're the one talking about Lamborghinis not me.

If you want to read about the Phaeton plant and see pictures here's a C&D article from 2003:

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/03q3/vw_s_transparent_factory-feature

Being #1 is tough and you're seeing Toyota falter right now under the spotlight with all these recalls. Plus as a culture Japan is changing, the old ways of focusing on the details and pride and shame associated with the quality of what they build are slowly being replaced with more American and more Capitalistic ways of doing business and you see that when these memos from within Toyota surface over these recalls. I have a degree is intercultural communication & business...if you think all the Japanese care about in 2010 is building good stuff...you don't know what you're talking about.

Again, I'm not saying they aren't great cars...but they aren't as great as they used to be...and other carmakers are getting pretty darn close in the quality department is what I am saying. If you don't want to believe that...thats fine but its the truth.

You are right, I know this is a LS forum and I am not interested other models in only flagships 7, S,A8,. This the competition. I just finished the video on Lambo's that why I bought it up. I thought it was interesting when the CEO of Lamborghini stated that his company is not into volume but profit and selling emotion. I was surprised he said that. Toyota has quality problems and yes they have to be competitive to survive, oddly the problems seemed to be with the parts that are made other than Japan. The elephant in the room maybe parts made in the USA or Canada.Gas pedal maker CTS, Tundra camshafts and front ball joints.The point is if you look at the competition euro flagships the LS is one of the last made in Japan that has not been *BLEEP*ized by a mix of everyones parts. There is reason the Phaeton is not in U.S.A. "The plant where VW builds the Phaeton is all glass so you can see every facet of the vehicle being built." I am not sure what this means but I would like to go see it. I have a degree is intercultural communication & business." I don't but see attached picture I have a minor in Lexus LS.

[SW03ES]

You are right, I know this is a LS forum and I am not interested other models in only flagships 7, S,A8,. This the competition.

The world is a different place now, thats not the only competition for these cars. Lots of people are scaling back into smaller less expensive cars.

I thought it was interesting when the CEO of Lamborghini stated that his company is not into volume but profit and selling emotion. I was surprised he said that.

Why were you surprised he said that?

Toyota has quality problems and yes they have to be competitive to survive, oddly the problems seemed to be with the parts that are made other than Japan. The elephant in the room maybe parts made in the USA or Canada.

Its not so much the parts as it is the attitude of the company that is the issue here. No shame...no pride...thats the cultural shift I was talking about.

if you look at the competition euro flagships the LS is one of the last made in Japan that has not been *BLEEP*ized by a mix of everyones parts.

Why would the euro flagships be built in Japan? I don't understand your point. The euro flagships are of course...built in Europe.

There is reason the Phaeton is not in U.S.A.

The reason is that American consumers did not accept a Volkswagen at that price point. It has nothing to do with the car itself. People didn't want to spend $75,000 for a car and then service it next to a Jetta. The car itself is a lot of car for the money. Hyundai is having the same issue with the Genesis, its an incredible car for the money but people would rather buy slightly less car and get the brand cache and service support that comes with a luxury car. If you drive say a Hyundai Genesis 4.6 and a Lexus ES350. The ES350 is more money optioned similarly...and much less car...but they sell WAY more ES350s.

"The plant where VW builds the Phaeton is all glass so you can see every facet of the vehicle being built." I am not sure what this means but I would like to go see it.

They are hugely proud of that plant and they designed it as a showcase for their construction and design process. Meaning...someone other than Lexus takes pride in how they build cars.

I have a degree is intercultural communication & business." I don't but see attached picture I have a minor in Lexus LS.

Well then maybe we'll leave the dissertation on Asian business practices to me...and the tutorial on replacing timing belts to you...hate to sound mean but you come in here acting like you're the only one who knows what he is talking about...and I think we've demonstrated thats not true.

[lex460]

You are right, I know this is a LS forum and I am not interested other models in only flagships 7, S,A8,. This the competition.

Most agree the LS 460's competition is the BMW 7 series the Audi A8 Mercedes S series, please add or subtract the ones I missed.

The world is a different place now, thats not the only competition for these cars. Lots of people are scaling back into smaller less expensive cars.

You lost me here this is a LS forum so I don't know what smaller cars have to do with it..

I thought it was interesting when the CEO of Lamborghini stated that his company is not into volume but profit and selling emotion. I was surprised he said that.

Why were you surprised he said that?

If I was on a video and representing Lamborghini I would talk about performance, quality things like that.

Toyota has quality problems and yes they have to be competitive to survive, oddly the problems seemed to be with the parts that are made other than Japan. The elephant in the room maybe parts made in the USA or Canada.

Its not so much the parts as it is the attitude of the company that is the issue here. No shame...no pride...thats the cultural shift I was talking about.

Japanese no shame no pride? This is the whole of my argument they are with other Asian manufacture's seem to be the last ones with pride.

if you look at the competition euro flagships the LS is one of the last made in Japan that has not been *BLEEP*ized by a mix of everyones parts.

Why would the euro flagships be built in Japan? I don't understand your point. The euro flagships are of course...built in Europe.

My poor grammar, one thing don't know is spelling and grammar. The flagship of the Japanese would never have there engines made in Africa, buy their electronics from multiple manufacture that repeatedly have caused them problems in the past. If you are thinking of buying a Mercedes or BWM or Audi the first thing they will tell you on the forums is buy a extended service contract or sell it before the warranty is up.You really don't hear that on the LS forums. I could go on and on about things like cylinder inserts in the 460 engine vs the plasma cylinder coatings on the euro cars, which I believe will be biting them in the butt. But I would have to stat posting diagrams and long explanations that would bore the non technical. I will just leave it at if you or anyone can provide information that the competition has a better made better production automobile, methods or technical advances I for one would like to be educated.

There is reason the Phaeton is not in U.S.A.

The reason is that American consumers did not accept a Volkswagen at that price point. It has nothing to do with the car itself. People didn't want to spend $75,000 for a car and then service it next to a Jetta. The car itself is a lot of car for the money. Hyundai is having the same issue with the Genesis, its an incredible car for the money but people would rather buy slightly less car and get the brand cache and service support that comes with a luxury car. If you drive say a Hyundai Genesis 4.6 and a Lexus ES350. The ES350 is more money optioned similarly...and much less car...but they sell WAY more ES350s.

The ES is a long way from the flagship so I have no comet on this. This and the fact they had a lot of electrical problems didn't help.http://www.autoblog.com/2008/02/04/volkswagen-phaeton-coming-i-back-i-to-america/

"The plant where VW builds the Phaeton is all glass so you can see every facet of the vehicle being built." I am not sure what this means but I would like to go see it.

They are hugely proud of that plant and they designed it as a showcase for their construction and design process. Meaning...someone other than Lexus takes pride in how they build cars.

They are showing only part of the assembly process the good stuff you will never see. Corvette does this, I think they call this Marketing..

I have a degree is intercultural communication & business." I don't but see attached picture I have a minor in Lexus LS.

Well then maybe we'll leave the dissertation on Asian business practices to me...and the tutorial on replacing timing belts to you...hate to sound mean but you come in here acting like you're the only one who knows what he is talking about...and I think we've demonstrated thats not true.

Doesn't sound mean at all. I am the owner of my own Engineering company and basically at this point don't do much it runs itself so no jealousy here. I am free 24/7.

You then should understand Marketing and selling humans automobiles using emotions instead of their head more than the average bear.

We have to end this I don't like arguing with mods. If I sound like I am a know it all I just know what I know and if I don't know it I shut up and say nothing. You ask me to respond to my posts so I did. I will be less of a know it all in the future. Good Luck to you..

[SW03ES]

You lost me here this is a LS forum so I don't know what smaller cars have to do with it..

Just because its an LS forum doesn't mean we can't discuss the LS' competitors...

If I was on a video and representing Lamborghini I would talk about performance, quality things like that.

Thats not what Lamborghini cars are about...they are about emotion.

Japanese no shame no pride? This is the whole of my argument they are with other Asian manufacture's seem to be the last ones with pride.

And what I was saying is that is rapidly changing and profit is becoming more important than the pride of building the best product possible.

If you are thinking of buying a Mercedes or BWM or Audi the first thing they will tell you on the forums is buy a extended service contract or sell it before the warranty is up.You really don't hear that on the LS forums. I could go on and on about things like cylinder inserts in the 460 engine vs the plasma cylinder coatings on the euro cars, which I believe will be biting them in the butt. But I would have to stat posting diagrams and long explanations that would bore the non technical. I will just leave it at if you or anyone can provide information that the competition has a better made better production automobile, methods or technical advances I for one would like to be educated.

I'm not saying they are better necessarily, I'm saying the quality of construction and engineering has improved greatly over the last few years while the quality and attention to detail in Lexus automobiles has degraded somewhat. European cars on the whole might not be quite as reliable as a Lexus, but they aren't "unreliable" anymore.

The ES is a long way from the flagship so I have no comet on this.

You completely missed my point but thats okay. Without the ES...Lexus can't afford to build the LS.

They are showing only part of the assembly process the good stuff you will never see. Corvette does this, I think they call this Marketing..

If by the good stuff you mean them stamping and welding the frame. Everything else is on display at the factory.

You then should understand Marketing and selling humans automobiles using emotions instead of their head more than the average bear

I do, very well.

[HH The Bahbi Lama]

LMAO. Buddy, I have been an automotive enthusiast my entire life and I have driven most of the cars on the road today. I don't have anything to prove to you or anyone else. If you want to believe that the LS is the only good car on the road and nothing else can even come close, go ahead and believe what you want. Do you have wet dreams at night because you own a "Lexus"? I'm not saying the Phaeton is more reliable than the LS, I'm saying the plastic and leather quality is better than that found in the LS nowadays. Its a really well built car...as are Audis.

The fact is that while the build and material quality of many other carmaker's product is improving, and the quality of Lexus vehicles on the whole over the last couple years has slipped somewhat. You have three generations of the car...you have to see that. The quality of the plastics and the solidness is better in your LS400...gets worse in the 430 and worse still in the 460. Look at the rearview mirrors in all three cars...the 400 and 430 have a nice unit that is color keyed to the interior. The 460 has a thin shiny plastic parts bin black unit on all the interior colors. I mean, the 460 is still a very high quality car but not as much so as the 430 or 400. Look how other carmakers have moved above Lexus in initial quality over the last few years. You say don't bring up the wind noise problem, why not? Its an awful issue for those owners. You're saying the quality of the GS is better than a Bentley too? Have you been to the GS forums on here?! The new GS has all kinds of rattle and interior quality issues. BMW...Mercedes...Jaguar...Cadillac...Lincoln...even Hyundai with the Genesis are all building much higher quality vehicles than they have in the past and Lexus needs to look out.

Saying that an LS is better built and has better quality materials than a Bentley is just...preposterous. The Bentley is a hand built machine with full wood inserts, everything in the car is wood, leather, real chrome, suede or sheepskin. The LS is obviously much cheaper than a Bentley so its to be expected.

I know more about the Lexus LS than most people have forgotten, its a great car...but there are other great cars out there too. You're going to hit me back with "Facts I want proof" blah blah blah. What proof am I going to give you? I know quality...and when I sit in a vehicle and touch and manipulate the materials and controls I can tell what is of good quality and what is of lesser quality. I'm not talking about reliability. You obviously either can't, or you're too blinded by childish brand loyalty to see it. Better than a Bentley? LMAO...thats stupid. Maybe Bentleys from 1990, but not today.

Your Movado watch must be better quality than a Rolex too right? I have a Movado but I'm not delerious enough to think its as well built as a Rolex.

Just remember...you're arguing with someone who loves the LS...and is shopping for an LS. Obviously I agree with you that its a great car but this childish "any car but my car is !Removed!" stuff is beneath us here...leave it on the Mustang and Camaro forums.

OK you have maybe never watched the Megafactories or Ultimate Factories video's if not you can get them off torrents or usenet. After you watch them a few times you can go to Lexus.jp and watch the tahara plant videos. It should take more than a few hours to figure out some of the differences. when I stated that Lambo can be put together with craftsman tools I wasn't kidding watch the video. Then spend time on the forums, in my case about 15 years. A bigger picture develops then shiny plastic parts and leather. It is a culture of making the best that the Japanese can make to show the world. I learned some basic things like I want my auto made with Denso electrics not Bosch or Siemens. Lexus LS engines, transmissions you can find a better engineered and produced drivetrain? If you want to focus on the plastic parts go head when you start to understand the engineering aspects and the motivations of the people building and designing these automobiles you will have a clearer picture. Buy the service manuals and read them do the same for others slowly the light will come on..

Speaking of factory videos, here's a great video done on Discovery HD's Megaworld Germany

[lex460]

Speaking of factory videos, here's a great video done on Discovery HD's Megaworld Germany

Thanks for the video, I have seen it. I am sure it impresses the non technical but is laughable to those that know better.

Spend some time here http://forums.vwvortex.com/zeroforum?id=112 and get a real feel for the German quality.

Stay tuned and read my up coming review of the 7 series..Not for the emotional enthusiast.