Project Es300 Engine Gel!

[JPI]

Welcome back Lexusfreak,

The link too forever to download(i have dial up). What is it about?

JPI

[Lexusfreak]

Thanks guys! Had a blast but I agree with you mburn, it's A LOT of hype just for one day!

JPI, I was just courious what you did learn from the engineer when you met? & your thoughts & opinions on slightly thicker viscosity synthetic oils such as 5W 40 & 5W 50 grades & why?

Ever heard of a German synthetic oil called Liqui-Moly?

Finally, what do you feel is the absolute best synthetic oil available.......I've heard that Mobil 1, Amsoil, Royal Purple & Red Line are in the top 5, any thoughts or opinions JPI?

Opinions on the Mobil 1 & K & N oil filters? Thanks in advance!

[JPI]

Here is more some reading Law suit against toyota

JPI

[VGR]

JPI, where the information on the lawsuit? The last post in the link you provided is dated Jan. 2004 - old information.

[Lexusfreak]

JPI, your thoughts on the 5W 40 grade of synthetic oil? :)

[Lex_Lover]

I just replaced a motor on my 1997 ES300 and the motor was changed fairly frequently. Corporate Lexus declined to pay for ANY repair whatsoever...

LexusLover: What was Lexus Corporate's reasoning behind denying your claim?

They wanted every receipt for the past three years. We were able to dig up about a year and one half. They refused to send a corporate inspector out and come look at it. Come on it only had 74K :chairshot: I replaced the motor and recently sold it.

[Lexusfreak]

How much was the engine replacement?

[Lex_Lover]

How much was the engine replacement?

Just about $1K the Luxury Dealer I bought the vehicle from ending up doing the motor swap for a flat rate of $300 the used engine, new timing belt/ and water pump was around $750. At least the private dealer helped me Corporate Lexus sucks!!!

[Lexusfreak]

Ouch

[mburnickas]

That is what happens when corp america works for "the man". You will lose

That is why I just LOL when people say I need to do this & that for the warrenty. It is only as good as the paper it is written on.

You could be 1-mile past the limit with a blowen engine and they would say nope, we can't help you. The kicker is it does not blow in a mile, it take time and miles. They will probably charge you for the paper and pen to write this on the form too, knowing Lexus.

[Lexusfreak]

Perhaps the ink too?

[mburnickas]

the results are finally in.

Since I am a user of Amsoil for just about 10-years I am going to get an oil test of virgin Amsoil 5w30 oil. I can find any #'s online. I got my results back today for over 12,000 miles on 5w-30 oil change. The test came back to keep using it [the oil] but I want to go another 12,000 miles and test again on new oil. See how the tests results compared in the same car, same driver and same miles, with some small delta. I can't compare to a test with 3 or 5K miles since the trend will not be linear.

Also with this many miles I persoanly feel that Amsoils 5w30 is not have a robust additive package as they say (but better then a lot of other oils). I only say this since my diesel had better results when tested; however, diesel oils have a major additive package to fight the junk that diesel put in oil. I might try there Series 3000 down the road to see how it compares to their normal 5w30.

So far it held up pretty damn good even when I compared it to the Mobil 1 on this site. http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.html

Bottom line, would I do this long again, yup. The Max for me I think would be around 18,000 miles per oil change, going by my data.

[Lexusfreak]

Thanks for posting mburn! B) Very intresting test results. It would appear that both the Amsoil & the Mobil 1 oils held up very well all things considered. They both had their up's & down's over the course of the extended drain interval (altthough the Amsoil is only half way thru it's testing technically)......I'm not 100% sure one could call an obvious winner but to say they are both a quality product but perhaps the Amsoil came out a bit ahead because over the course of the test, they didn't have to add as much "top off" as the Mobil 1 (so far at least anyways, but we shall see). Thanks for the posting! :)

[mburnickas]

I will put the results in excel, then to PDF and then online for all to view.

My webpage for this is:

http://home.comcast.net/~94gsxr1100/lexus/oil/oil_sludge.htm

I will have my thoughts on there also.

[m2pc]

Nice! Thanks MB!

I guess going 7500 on the ASL is being conservative. are your miles mostly highway? City? %?

[mburnickas]

m2pc---yes, going only 7,500 is WAY to conservative for this oil. I would go at least 11 to 12,000 and then test it, not drain it. Then see what the tests look like. The ASL is prone to increase a little in viscosity (up to 40w). Just watch the OXD, Nirtates and TBN. Mine are pretty low compared to some cars/suv’s out there. Most are about 40 to 50 in the OXD and Nit’s. The results for wear metals were great in my used oil. Some of the best I have seen.

You can't really go by the TBN since it can go up as I have seen in some other test results from my other cars. I would say the cut off for TBN is 2 to 1.5. After that, I would drain the oil. Some will say keep it in, but why I will say.

The ASL is good but it is not as good as their high priced oils. The kicker is I do not know if the higher priced oil will have a added benefit. Yes, they will perform better but you would still need to drain the oil at the 1-year mark; even if the oil was great. So way pay the extra $$$$.

The miles are 85% side roads since that is what I take to work in the AM and PM. It is 17.8 miles to work. Also go to college at night and that is another 12 miles side roads since the highway to Hartford CT is a total JOKE! Also the car gets used everyday except when I take the bike to work. So far I have only taken it 3 times this spring/summer. Can't have the coffee on the bike.

The only highway is to Boston for my R/C heli parts or south to Hartford when I need to get there ASAP.

So I will stay with the ASL for now unless their high priced oils come down in price.

[steviej]

Can't have the coffee on the bike.

oh Mike, but you can. I am a coffee addict. Especially DD ice coffee.

Try one of those Camelbacks. It is an expandable bladder that most bicyclers use to carry water on there back. Hold about 1 L or so.

Fill it with ice coffee and away you go. Keep in mind though, the frequency of pit stops increases proportionately too.

steviej

[Lexusfreak]

I think I will stick to using the Mobil 1 5W 30 synthetic although I did consider the Amsoil. After reading the findings mburn, I don't see that much af an advantage to switching since the Mobil 1 held up quite well after the testing was completed. I can't justify the fact that the Amsoil is about $3.50 more per bottle here in Canada either & they have not completed the testing yet on the Amsoil. But good & imformative write up nontheless. B)

[Ken7]

7.5k miles? I think you are pushing it. Sludge does take a while for it to built up. For the sake of the V6 engine, Please change your oil between 3k-5k. Forgot to mention, I had client came in with a rx300 45k miles. The engine is locking up, he changes his oil every 8k miles with Mobile 1. For those of you who think Mobil 1 will protect your engine, you need to think again!

JPI

My feeling on this is that if this condition is the result of letting oil changes go every 7,500 miles (PER LEXUS RECOMMENDATIONS), then this is strictly a Lexus design or maintenance recommendation issue. They are telling us that you can certainly go 7,500 miles between changes (non severe usauge, per THEIR recommendation). How can this possibly be blamed on a customer????

I was actuall told by a Lexus service person that this was indeed a design defect having something to do with poor oil drainage (I think that's what he said) and effected ES300s between 98-03.

[JPI]

Up to the top so we people can read it :P

JPI

[Lexusfreak]

As most of you know, I have in fact switched to Amsoil ASL 5W 30 from Mobil 1 as I can actually get it slightly cheaper than the M1. Fantastic oil (along with the Amsoil HD oil filter) & a slight increase in fuel economy to boot! B)

[misterlok]

Wanted to say thanks to JPI for his real world experience with the oil sludge issue. Really helpful.

For all those people who want to change their oil around the 7.5k - 11k area, what's the risk /reward ratio here? Let's say you drive 25k year (~70mi/day), a lot I think for most, you change your oil at a $20-$50 oil shop every 3k, so you're looking at 8 times x $50 = $400 a year. You go the 5k or 7.5k route outlined in the manual, you're looking at 5 x $50 = $250 or 3 x $50 = $150. You save at best a few hundred -- but you are driving a Lexus, not a Geo.

Compare these savings to proving your point in court against the manufacturer is dicey. Not an expert here, but having just a few cases where you take the oil up to 7.5k - 11k, does not help your case, especially if you've received a letter from Toyota or have gone to the dealership, where I'm sure they'll inform you.

So what is the point of experimenting on this car? If you want to test oil reliability then buy a cheap beater car and test it on that. But in any case, 1000's of cases from mechanics and the manufacturer vs a small sample size of users with success at 7.5k - 11k oil change intervals does not sway me -- it sounds too much like the "flourine in the water is pointless" or "regular dentist checkups are a waste" arguments.

[Toysrme]

The reason to do it is so you don't pay for what you don't need.

If you go read the big oil forums, under most conditions, even the majority of cheap dino oil will do 5 months - 5,000 miles & have enough protection left to not hurt anything. (Notice Toyota has always stood by the 5,000 mile dino rule)

I normally go synthetic & change @ 10,000 miles - 10 months. This year, having rebuilt the engine so many times, gone turbo ect. I probably haven't driven 2,000 miles between any single oil change. Not because I agree with changing oil so soon, I think it's rather stupid, but because I had the oil on hand, or needed to drain the pan, or run some new oil lines, or tap an oil place - whatever.

misterlok, Toyota recommended dino for 7,500 miles under non-harsh driving for what, a decade? It wasn't until later engines that developed sludging problems that they changed it to 5,000 miles period.

If you don't want to believe most good synthetics over the last 10 years have been good 10,000+ miles, that's your perrogative. But for your own benifit; talk to people that actually know what they're talking about before you make your desion.

Surf bobistheoilguy.com forums & check the thousands of posts about what oil labs have to say about XXX oil type in YYY engine gives ZZZ lifespan.

Otherwise, go put a good synthetic in your car & drive 7,500 miles, pay your $20 to send an oil sample to a lab & see what they have to say.

^^^

That's the only way you're actually going to get the answer you're looking for.

Then when you find out most good oils can last that long, it boils down to what you personally think. Would you rather pay for a bunch of oil changes, or a few?

[Lexusfreak]

The reason to do it is so you don't pay for what you don't need.

If you go read the big oil forums, under most conditions, even the majority of cheap dino oil will do 5 months - 5,000 miles & have enough protection left to not hurt anything. (Notice Toyota has always stood by the 5,000 mile dino rule)

I normally go synthetic & change @ 10,000 miles - 10 months. This year, having rebuilt the engine so many times, gone turbo ect. I probably haven't driven 2,000 miles between any single oil change. Not because I agree with changing oil so soon, I think it's rather stupid, but because I had the oil on hand, or needed to drain the pan, or run some new oil lines, or tap an oil place - whatever.

misterlok, Toyota recommended dino for 7,500 miles under non-harsh driving for what, a decade? It wasn't until later engines that developed sludging problems that they changed it to 5,000 miles period.

If you don't want to believe most good synthetics over the last 10 years have been good 10,000+ miles, that's your perrogative. But for your own benifit; talk to people that actually know what they're talking about before you make your desion.

Surf bobistheoilguy.com forums & check the thousands of posts about what oil labs have to say about XXX oil type in YYY engine gives ZZZ lifespan.

Otherwise, go put a good synthetic in your car & drive 7,500 miles, pay your $20 to send an oil sample to a lab & see what they have to say.

^^^

That's the only way you're actually going to get the answer you're looking for.

Then when you find out most good oils can last that long, it boils down to what you personally think. Would you rather pay for a bunch of oil changes, or a few?

←

Agreed Toys. B) The less 'down' time for me the better.........synthetics are the way to go without question. ;)

[mburnickas]

The kicker was back in the 1970's amsoil and mobil had the drain wars. They were 25K miles or 1-year and that was in the 70's! Then Mobil stopped. Then started back this year...Go figure.

As Toysrme & Lexusfreak stated, all the group 4 and 5 synthetics can go over 10+K miles. In most engines that is not even pushing the oil add pkg.

I will be testing yet again in 1 month on the my ES. See if my last numbers were on the money, etc. Last drain was darn good for over 12K miles. This drain might be only 10 or 11. Not driving that much since the gsxr gets ridden more now.

I will be testing the ATF also just for ha ha's.

For me, the less wear, less messy oil changes and being proactive (not re-active)on down time is worth the $45 a year for an oil change. That is less then my Chopin Vodka (1.75 L) or not even 1 blade on my r/c heli....not breaking the bank here.

I was thinking about swtiching to Amsoil new AFL (5w-40 European Motor Oil) since there ZDDP and Ca are VERY high. Low NOAK and >4.0 HTHS and a TBN of 12.2! Plus it passes Volkswagen spec and the MB229.3 spec. For $0.20 more per qt, I will take it.