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Project Es300 Engine Gel!


JPI

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It seems that the gelling is not a new problem and is something that ALL engines have had ever since the advent of internal combustion. I remember when you could flush out most of the gelling with a product that was called Cisco Solvent. You'd fill your crankcase with it, run the engine for about half an hour, flush it out and fill the crankcase with new oil. It worked great, but I don't know whether this product is manufactured anymore. I'm sure they have other products on the market now though.

That wont resolve the lower end sludge issue only uptop (IRA Lexus and My dealer confirmed this) :blushing:

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That wont resolve the lower end sludge issue only uptop (IRA Lexus and My dealer confirmed this)

Years ago when I worked on New York City taxicabs that had mucho miles on the engines we removed the crankcase & valve covers on OHV type engines, before and after using the solvent that I spoke about previously. The sludge(gel) was almost completely removed after this treatment. Toyota engines are basically the same as engines manufactured years ago, so I don't know why they would react any differently to this internal cleaning procedure. ;)

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I just replaced a motor on my 1997 ES300 and the motor was changed fairly frequently. Corporate Lexus declined to pay for ANY repair whatsoever...

LexusLover: What was Lexus Corporate's reasoning behind denying your claim?

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  • 1 month later...
One of my client use Mobil synthetic oil but he change his every 10k. He needs a new engine. I've seen a lot of strange things with this v6.

JPI

JPI, are you saying you have seen an ES 300 engine sludge up despite

oil changes every 10,000 miles with Mobil 1 synthetic oil? Or are you saying

this Mobil 1 engine needs to be replaced for some other reason not related to

sludge? I just wanted to make sure. Thanks.

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So, sludging will only occur if the oil change is significantly neglected? I am really good about getting my oil changed on a regular basis, but what if there comes a time when I am unable to get the oil changed right at the 3,000 mile/3 month marker? Say, 3,500 miles/4 months? Is this going to cause sludging? Or does it take more significant neglect?

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what if there comes a time when I am unable to get the oil changed right at the 3,000 mile/3 month marker? Say, 3,500 miles/4 months? Is this going to cause sludging? Or does it take more significant neglect?

There is no risk of sludge if the oil is changed at least every 6 months or 5,000 miles.

There is a slight risk if changed every 7-12 months or 5,000 - 7,500 miles.

There is a high risk if not changed for more than a year or 7,500 miles even, apparently, when

using synthetic oil.

This risk applies only to the V6 engine. The V8 is much more sludge resistant, but that

doesn't mean the V6 is not an equally reliable and durable motor. It's just more sensitive

to the consequences of maintenance neglect.

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IF you have the engine gel problem (and don't yet know it) what are some of the most obvious signs of the problem? stuff such as oil consumtion? I've switched to Mobil 1 synthetic when I bought my car back in Jan, she dosen't burn a drop which is a good thing......just wondering if there are any other things to pay attention to? :unsure:

:cheers:

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I think generally speaking if the car is not burning an excessive amount of oil & no blue smoke is present, & is idling smoothly it's a pretty safe bet that there is nothing too serious happening from both what I've read & been told. B)

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We have another one in our shop. It's a 92 es300, this one is not that bad. We don't have to pull the heads off this one. Change your oil guys, Change your oil!

JPI

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JPI - thanks for posting the pics, and for all the info you have on this problem.

I just recently purchased a 99 ES300 w/ less than 14,000 miles on it. From what I can tell, the last maintenance performed on the car was on 06/06/2000 when the car had 6,121 miles. Unless I didn't receive all the paperwork, it looks as if the car went nearly 3 years / 7,500 miles without an oil change.

After I bought the car I immediately took it to the Lexus dealer for the 15,000 mile service. They said that everything looked great. With the 15,000 mile service, would they be able to tell if my car has the oil gelling problem? Are there any additional services I should get to assure there aren't any problems?

The car drives like a dream and I haven't noticed anything that would make me think there are any problems. Are there symptoms I should watch out for? I saw the post on "blue smoke" and I've never noticed that in my car.

Thanks for all the help!

DobieG

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Here is another one at our shop 92 ES300. It belongs to one of our LOC member in dallas. He changes oil every 3k miles. On this one, we don't have to pull the heads off. Here are some of pictures of it.

donut1.JPG

es300%20sludge.JPG

es300%20sludge2.JPG

We will have to drop the #1 and 2 to clean it. Fun fun fun. :o

JPI

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Here is another one at our shop 92 ES300. It belongs to one of our LOC member in dallas. He changes oil every 3k miles.

Every 3,000 miles since the car was brand new? Or did the current owner buy the car used with an uncertain prior service history? Did this '92 ES300 have the 3VZ-FE engine or the 1MZ-FE engine?

Did you also once say you saw a V6 come into your shop that needed a new engine because it was sludged despite using Mobil 1 synthetic oil changed every 10,000 miles?

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Yes, this is a 3VZ-FE engine. Iron block and aluminum head. We run into all kind of probem on this car :unsure: . But finally get it out of the shop today. Had problem with the cam timing, turn out it was the V3 mark not V4. Oil pump makes a little noise, so we had to remove the pump and clean it out(client on a budget). There were a lot of oil in the intake manifold due to bad valve steam seals.

The valve steam seals weren't sealing at all so it dump a lot of oil into the combustion chamber. And push them up to the manifold. Client changed out every 3k miles, but the damaged probably did from the previous owner. Well have fun. Who is next? ;)

JPI

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Please excuse my ignorence.

If a car is not driven that much does that contribute to gelling ?

Weather related ?

If car has "normal" oil vs. synthetic does that matter ?

Can one drain normal oil and put in synthetic with no problem (mixing of oils) ?

Guys I drove my 1980 Corolla for 23 years, could fix almost anything with a hammer, srewdriver, and a wrench. I changed the oil one a year and never heard of gelling.

George

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yes, oil should be changed on a regular interval.....if not driven alot, then change the oil at least every 4-6 months.

no, it is not weather related

oil gelling is most prevelant with "normal" oils.

yes

I know what you mean.....my first car was a 1976 Corolla wagon (stop laughing).

It was indestructable and wicked easy to fix.

steviej

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  • 2 weeks later...

Ok, how can one check if they do NOT have engine gelling. I bought my '98 with 22k on the clock. I don't know how often the oil was changed before I picked it up and now it has 60k. I changed the oil at the stealership ever 4500 to 5k miles religiously. I have'nt noticed blue smoke, and the car idles ok. It doesn't burn oil when I do remmeber to check. Any physical signs I can check? like is there a way to check in the valve cover without removing? Can i check with a flashlight? how did the people whose car you work on know to bring it, besides the cars ceasing up on them?

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lots of great info on this "gelling" problem. I'm new to this site because I just got my 93' ES300 and love it. but the other day I noticed the oil pressure light come on for a sec then turn off. when I checked the oil I noticed it... YUP... thick and black :( . The worst thing about it is I've already put almost all my money into the car, (new tires, air filter, oil change ect.), and foolishly didnt put any money aside for possible disasters like this.... do you fellas think I could use some sort of "miracle" chemical, to eat that ugly stuff up??? (oh and I know the previous owner, she seemed like the type to neglect scheduled maintenance) <_<

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Welcome paul :) I know some Lexus dealers carry an "engine flush" that they can put into the crank case just before doing an oil change to get some of the sludge out......not 100% sure how effective it is however :unsure: Perhaps JPI or someone can shed more light on this for you. It's unfortunate I know :( It's always very important when purchasing a used vehicle to check & see if regular maintenance has been performed. Perhaps phone a couple Lexus / Toyota Dealers and see what they have to say.

:cheers:

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If your oil pressure light comes on your engine won't last that long. You can't flush the sludge out, it will clogged up the oil pump and then no more oil pressure. We didn't pull the head off the last sludge job we did and it comes back on the tow truck. We are putting in a new engine now. The properly way to clean the sludge off is to pull the heads off, clean them. Pull the oil pan off and clean it. Replace your oil pump and oil strainer. This is a $2000 job or more. Good luck.

JPI

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I do not know what everyone else got, but I believe Lexus sent a letter to the ES300 people stating this issue. The letter in summary stated “…and the owner can show reasonable evidence of regular engine maintenance, Toyota will cover expenses related to the condition.

My Lexus manuals stipulates oil changes every 7,500 miles or six months, whichever comes first under normal driving conditions, and 5,000 miles or four months under severe operating conditions. So in my book if you follow these you are good to go. But then again, what does “reasonable” mean? I assume (which is bad) that it is longer drains but I do not know.

I know that some people have encountered oil gelling when using the same oil for up to (4) times the normal schedule (with regular oil). But if you follow the manual you will be fine. The 3,000 mile is waste and the 5K mile change is for severe if it is related to your driving style.

From what I have read with these problems, is the owners are clueless out the gelling problem. Never-mind that they do not even know that you needed to ever change the oil!

Lastly, this issue at hand is nothing new either. Been around for few years.

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