Facing Starter Problem, '99 Ls400

[rvgraham]

So my battery died a few months ago, I've had the car five years, don't know how old the battery was but that's ok after five years. All was well.

Now, when I go to start the car, usually it starts right up, but, sometimes I only get a solid click, then the dash lights dim a bit and nothing happens. No additional clicking like a starter that's still trying to engage with not enough voltage. Try again, maybe a third time, and it starts right up. Charging system is at 13.7 volts @2500rpm. so it's not any issue other that the starter.

I know she's a bear to get at, what I'm trying to figure out is whether this kit:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/starter-rep...s#ht_500wt_1249

will get me up and running again, or if I should just get a rebuilt starter and swap the whole thing out like Bulls I did:

http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...showtopic=49611

Just for additional yucks, I just made my last payment on this car Wednesday, and I currently have no work and I'm on my last $600 which is all I have to feed my family of 5 until my wife gets a small paycheck on the tenth of July. I desperately need my car to be able to get out to job interviews, (if I could get any interviews to go to, I'm a software developer and there are a lot of us out of work), but, obviously I need to get this repaired as cheaply as possible.

Maybe the best alternative is to buy a AAA membership and just keep driving it? My only worry is being stranded if she won't start no matter how many times I try to engage the starter. Right now four times is the most I've had to try.

Has anybody tried the kit? I gather it saves you from having to go the last couple of steps to actually remove the starter, you can just install the kit with the manifold removed but you don't have to contend with getting the rear water bypass off. I'm not technically savvy on how a starter motor works; I understand that motors in general work by having rotating coils acting as electromagnet yadda yadda yadda ..... whatever.

I'm not going to pretend I understand it all nor do I want to take the time to right now. I just want to get the starter problem fixed as easily as possible without wasting too much time or money. I'm mechanically competent with wrench work, I recently swapped the engine in my son's 325i.

Thanks, Bob Graham

[AzHotLS]

Has anybody tried the kit? I gather it saves you from having to go the last couple of steps to actually remove the starter, you can just install the kit with the manifold removed but you don't have to contend with getting the rear water bypass off.

I considered that kit, and I'm sure it's fine but I ended up getting a kit from Nations Auto Electric linked in this thread:

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls400-foru...tml#post4191291

What you're thinking about doing, not physically removing the starter, is exactly what I ended up doing. However, since you have a 99, you don't have to contend with the EGR pipes that connect through the crossover pipe so you should have an easier go at removing the pipe and starter.

Good luck.

[rvgraham]

Has anybody tried the kit? I gather it saves you from having to go the last couple of steps to actually remove the starter, you can just install the kit with the manifold removed but you don't have to contend with getting the rear water bypass off.

I considered that kit, and I'm sure it's fine but I ended up getting a kit from Nations Auto Electric linked in this thread:

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls400-foru...tml#post4191291

What you're thinking about doing, not physically removing the starter, is exactly what I ended up doing. However, since you have a 99, you don't have to contend with the EGR pipes that connect through the crossover pipe so you should have an easier go at removing the pipe and starter.

Good luck.

So it sounds like extracting the starter is not as difficult as it used to be... now the question is where to get the right starter at the right price.

I found one place that was $165 w/no core charge, but almost $200 with shipping and tax etc. Ouch.

Bob

[lenore]

I would go with the Nations kit, save you a lot of money, hopefully for you no bad bearings etc on the original starter....Good luck and Hope you find that job soon.,

[rvgraham]

I would go with the Nations kit, save you a lot of money, hopefully for you no bad bearings etc on the original starter....Good luck and Hope you find that job soon.,

Still a bit confused, is there a way to tell what the starter is doing? I always get a solid click, which I imagine is the solenoid kicking the drive gear into place, just no engine turning until I try a few more times.

The nations web site is confusing. If I get the nations kit, then I don't need the gaskets for the rear water bypass right? They're $15 for the pair. Or is it better to remove the starter anyway to work more comfortably? The manifold gaskets are $45 plus $3 for the water pipe o-ring. I'll take my chance on the gasket from the throttle body to intake, it's easy enough to get to if I get a whistle or whatever.

Thanks, Bob

[AzHotLS]

I imagine is the solenoid kicking the drive gear into place, just no engine turning until I try a few more times.

Exactly, the contacts are worn sufficiently and not allowing enough current to pass through them to drive the starter motor.

Buy the $34.95 kit from Nations, if you decide to remove the starter, the bypass will have to come off requiring you to buy the gaskets. I just removed the starter motor assembly allowing easier access to the solenoid. Just don't turn the motor assembly upside down like I did allowing the armeture to fall out, that was very stupid on my part. I was lucky to find a place to take it to that took it apart and cleaned it up.

No, the starter is still a royal pain to get out, even with the bypass coming out easier for you 98+ owners.

Check out the thread below, I have some links in there to a few good sites showing starter troubleshooting steps and what worn contacts look like:

http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...showtopic=54532

[curiousB]

...Charging system is at 13.7 volts @2500rpm. so it's not any issue other that the starter......

I know she's a bear to get at, what I'm trying to figure out is whether this kit:

This test doesn't imply the battery is OK. It only implies the alternator is able to generate a proper output with the loads you have going. It says nothing about the reserve capacity of the battery which is most relevant for a starter. The starter motor will draw 200+ AMPs to turn over an engine. More if its cold. So if you have a loose or corroded connection or a battery with low electrolyte you could see a poor starting scenario. So I'd check battery voltage at battery terminals while cranking. If that is dropping below 8-9 volts say then you have a bad battery. Then if you can check voltage at the starter motor while cranking and if its significantly lower than the battery voltage then the wiring is suspect.

My bet though is it is the solenoid has worn and the "contactor plate" is welded from repeated use it can't pass the current anymore. A common failure mode for these devices. In this case you’re going to “go in after it”.

With the starter located where it is how are you feeling of Lexus’s choice to bury this where it is? I’m not a big fan of its location but others feel its nothing sort of engineering genius to bury deep in the intake manifold.

[rvgraham]

...Charging system is at 13.7 volts @2500rpm. so it's not any issue other that the starter......

I know she's a bear to get at, what I'm trying to figure out is whether this kit:

This test doesn't imply the battery is OK. It only implies the alternator is able to generate a proper output with the loads you have going. It says nothing about the reserve capacity of the battery which is most relevant for a starter. The starter motor will draw 200+ AMPs to turn over an engine. More if its cold. So if you have a loose or corroded connection or a battery with low electrolyte you could see a poor starting scenario. So I'd check battery voltage at battery terminals while cranking. If that is dropping below 8-9 volts say then you have a bad battery. Then if you can check voltage at the starter motor while cranking and if its significantly lower than the battery voltage then the wiring is suspect.

My bet though is it is the solenoid has worn and the "contactor plate" is welded from repeated use it can't pass the current anymore. A common failure mode for these devices. In this case you’re going to “go in after it”.

With the starter located where it is how are you feeling of Lexus’s choice to bury this where it is? I’m not a big fan of its location but others feel its nothing sort of engineering genius to bury deep in the intake manifold.

I guess you missed the implied reality that when the "battery died a few months ago" I did actually replace it And yes, the battery posts are clean. So at this point the starter is the only likely culprit. I went ahead and ordered the kit from ebay and the gaskets from lexpartsonline. And since then she's started fine all eight or tens times I've driven her!

Oh well, I'll put the parts in anyway, I'm sure I'll have the problem re-appear in a day or two.

Bob