Nav Override Hack

[John Midolo]

Ok, so I bought the gen 5 5.1 disc from Ebay, burned a hybrid disk using the "loading.kwi" file from the 5.1 disc and all the other files from the 8.1 disc that came from my 09 RX350. Disconnected the battery for 5 minutes (Fuse 1 was not correct, and I was unable to determine the correct fuse from the manual), loaded the hybrid disc and got the message "loading" initially, then "Unable to load file, see your dealer" in both English and Japanese. So I thought that maybe something was wrong with my disc, burned another one, same result. So then. I put the authentic 5.1 disc in and got the same error message. Went out to Toyota Nation and downloaded the loading.kwi file and burned another disc (coaster), same result. Has anyone successfully created a 5.1/8.1 hybrid that actually works in an '09 RX350?

[BillyShaft]

Ok, so I bought the gen 5 5.1 disc from Ebay, burned a hybrid disk using the "loading.kwi" file from the 5.1 disc and all the other files from the 8.1 disc that came from my 09 RX350. Disconnected the battery for 5 minutes (Fuse 1 was not correct, and I was unable to determine the correct fuse from the manual), loaded the hybrid disc and got the message "loading" initially, then "Unable to load file, see your dealer" in both English and Japanese. So I thought that maybe something was wrong with my disc, burned another one, same result. So then. I put the authentic 5.1 disc in and got the same error message. Went out to Toyota Nation and downloaded the loading.kwi file and burned another disc (coaster), same result. Has anyone successfully created a 5.1/8.1 hybrid that actually works in an '09 RX350?

What are the part numbers on your 5.1 disc?

I am pretty sure that the Gen 5 5.1 disc needs to be able to load and run before we can go forward.

Step Hen has a working 5.1/8.1 Gen 5 hybrid disc, although I do not think it is in an 09 RX350.

[John Midolo]

Ok, so I bought the gen 5 5.1 disc from Ebay, burned a hybrid disk using the "loading.kwi" file from the 5.1 disc and all the other files from the 8.1 disc that came from my 09 RX350. Disconnected the battery for 5 minutes (Fuse 1 was not correct, and I was unable to determine the correct fuse from the manual), loaded the hybrid disc and got the message "loading" initially, then "Unable to load file, see your dealer" in both English and Japanese. So I thought that maybe something was wrong with my disc, burned another one, same result. So then. I put the authentic 5.1 disc in and got the same error message. Went out to Toyota Nation and downloaded the loading.kwi file and burned another disc (coaster), same result. Has anyone successfully created a 5.1/8.1 hybrid that actually works in an '09 RX350?

What are the part numbers on your 5.1 disc?

I am pretty sure that the Gen 5 5.1 disc needs to be able to load and run before we can go forward.

Step Hen has a working 5.1/8.1 Gen 5 hybrid disc, although I do not think it is in an 09 RX350.

Ah, good point. Nowhere on the disc does it actually say generation 5, but the EBAY ad said Gen 5. The disc says U-30, D and the only numbers on it are at the bottom next to the 9 circles. The numbers are 862710-53020 and 464210-0628. The "loading.kwi" file is 48,082,994 bytes (45.8 MB). I also downloaded the identical file off of Toyota Nation, with the same result.

[Step Hen]

Before you pull the fuse and clear the memory, test the hybrid disc to make sure you can navigate and enter destinations. Then you can know if the disc was made properly. After, you should be able to load the 5.1 firmware if the disc is working correctly.

[Messerchmidt]

Before you pull the fuse and clear the memory, test the hybrid disc to make sure you can navigate and enter destinations. Then you can know if the disc was made properly. After, you should be able to load the 5.1 firmware if the disc is working correctly.

Has anyone successfully created a 5.1/8.1 hybrid that actually works in an 2007-09 RX350?

[RhoXS]

John Midolo, I am having the exact same problem. I can burn a workable clone of the OEM 7.1 disk, but no matter how I make the hybrid, it simply will not load and the Eng/Jap message remains on the screen. I noticed from other threads on this and other forums that this seems to be a fairly common problem. For the time being, I have given up will try again in a few weeks.

The fact that I can make a workable clone of the OEM disk, but not a hybrid, seems to imply either a problem with the 5.1 .kwi file I am using or something in the Nav firmware that will not allow it to use a 5.1 loader. I would like to try a hybrid disk that has been proven to work in another vehicle to test my theory but I have not yet been able to find anyone in this area (Stuart, Florida) who has one. I am leaning to the theory about the firmware but really have no basis yet to support that argument.

I think we all need to express our appreciation to Step Hen for all the help he offers in this forum. I certainly could not have gotten as far as I did without his knowledge.

[BillyShaft]

Before you pull the fuse and clear the memory, test the hybrid disc to make sure you can navigate and enter destinations. Then you can know if the disc was made properly. After, you should be able to load the 5.1 firmware if the disc is working correctly.

Stephen,

Apparently he is not able to get the OEM 5.1 disc to load properly. Until he gets that resolved, the hybrid disc is doomed to fail.

I am pretty sure that the U30 disc he mentions is the correct Gen 5 5.1 disc, but maybe you can tell for certain from the part numbers since I am a Gen 4 guy and all my discs are, of course, Gen 4.

~Brian

[BillyShaft]

The fact that I can make a workable clone of the OEM disk, but not a hybrid, seems to imply either a problem with the 5.1 .kwi file I am using or something in the Nav firmware that will not allow it to use a 5.1 loader.

I agree with your reasoning.

That you can make a working clone shows that your procedures are sound.

On my Gen 4 system, I have changed firmware up and down at will.

To go up numerically in firmware, you simply install the new disc and it automatically loads.

To go down in version, I have to remove power to the Nav system (Radio1 fuse in my case) and the old firmware loads.

From what I have read, Gen 5 systems are similar in function. That would suck if Lexus locked newer firmware into the system...

[RhoXS]

My 2009 RX350 has an August build date. I am also pulling the Radio 1 fuse. This seems like it is the proper fuse because removing and then reinserting the OEM disk without pulling the fuse does not bring up the blue colored loading screen with the horizontal green tape like status bar along the bottom. However, if I pull the fuse, and then reinsert the OEM disk, the blue colored loading screen appears.

This lockout problem with the Nav system is really annoying me. For years my wife and I have used high end Garmin devices in both our vehicles. It is not uncommon for my wife to use it to find restaurants, hotels, rest areas, etc. when we take road trips while I drive. This presents absolutely no safety hazard so I strongly resent the lockout feature. I knew it existed before I bought the car but I was expecting to be able to quickly and easily override it. The voice command system does not begin to have any real convenience and functionality. This seems ludicrous but we have discussed putting one of our Garmin's in the RX350 to supplement the crippled $2600 whiz bang installed Lexus unit. Seems like the Japanese are still getting even with us for their unconditional surrender at the end of WWII. Sorry, I had to vent.

[larrs]

This lockout problem with the Nav system is really annoying me. For years my wife and I have used high end Garmin devices in both our vehicles. It is not uncommon for my wife to use it to find restaurants, hotels, rest areas, etc. when we take road trips while I drive. This presents absolutely no safety hazard so I strongly resent the lockout feature. I knew it existed before I bought the car but I was expecting to be able to quickly and easily override it. The voice command system does not begin to have any real convenience and functionality. This seems ludicrous but we have discussed putting one of our Garmin's in the RX350 to supplement the crippled $2600 whiz bang installed Lexus unit. Seems like the Japanese are still getting even with us for their unconditional surrender at the end of WWII. Sorry, I had to vent.

RhoXS, I've had my RX for just under 3 weeks now, and I've only taken 1 road trip so far. But I noticed that while on the highway, if you select "highway" mode on the Navi, you get a list of the upcoming exits and rest areas on the route you're following. The closest one is highlighted, but you can select one that is farther away. For whichever exit is selected, at the top of list you'll see icons representing the services available at that exit -- food, gas, ATM, etc. If you touch the food symbol, the screen will display restaurants near that exit. You can touch each restaurant to see the name, and optionally add it to your route.

My car was built 10/08 and has the 8.1 disk.

[BillyShaft]

My 2009 RX350 has an August build date. I am also pulling the Radio 1 fuse. This seems like it is the proper fuse because removing and then reinserting the OEM disk without pulling the fuse does not bring up the blue colored loading screen with the horizontal green tape like status bar along the bottom. However, if I pull the fuse, and then reinsert the OEM disk, the blue colored loading screen appears.

Your experience sounds like mine...the loading screen with progress indicator denotes that the loading.kwi is actually being loaded. On a side note: I wonder if John Midolo is getting the correct fuse under hood when he is fishing for the Radio1. I like it best when we are all on the same page in terms of actions/reactions.

RhoXS, did you do like Step was saying? Get your system running and doing the normal nav thing, then put your hybrid in and without pulling the fuse see if the disc will allow you to add addresses, turn off and on POIs etc? Your hybrid disc should be able to do this since the map data is the same from OEM to hybrid.

Disturbing thought:

I had to recover my NAV system after I was stupid and changed the region for the DVD in the override menu and got the dreaded engrish/japanese screen of NAV death. As a last resort, I am starting to wonder if the newer firmware is setting a flag that will not allow the old firmware to function unless the system is fully reset. If so, this goes from a medium-hard task to a difficult task.

[RhoXS]

RhoXS, did you do like Step was saying? Get your system running and doing the normal nav thing, then put your hybrid in and without pulling the fuse see if the disc will allow you to add addresses, turn off and on POIs etc? Your hybrid disc should be able to do this since the map data is the same from OEM to hybrid.

If I insert the hybrid disk, without first pulling the fuse, the nav system appears to read the map data without an issue. I am in Florida and it found a location in Indiana so it appears to work.

This now implies even more strongly that the system is rejecting the 5.1 loading.kwi file and the burn is good. This is not good news. I still would like to find a hybrid version that is known to work but I now suspect the results will be the same.

I just had a thought. Is there more than one version of the 5.1 loading.kwi file? My 2009 RX350 has a Generation 5 nav system. Is there also a 5.1 loading.kwi file intended for a generation 4 system? If so, how does one tell the difference?

[BillyShaft]

I just had a thought. Is there more than one version of the 5.1 loading.kwi file? My 2009 RX350 has a Generation 5 nav system. Is there also a 5.1 loading.kwi file intended for a generation 4 system? If so, how does one tell the difference?

yes, there is a 5.1 loading file for each Generation. Hard to tell because they are exactly the same size for me from 4.2, 5.1 and 6.1 . Same exact byte size, but very different functionally.

You basically need to know which disc the file comes from.

[John Midolo]

I just had a thought. Is there more than one version of the 5.1 loading.kwi file? My 2009 RX350 has a Generation 5 nav system. Is there also a 5.1 loading.kwi file intended for a generation 4 system? If so, how does one tell the difference?

yes, there is a 5.1 loading file for each Generation. Hard to tell because they are exactly the same size for me from 4.2, 5.1 and 6.1 . Same exact byte size, but very different functionally.

You basically need to know which disc the file comes from.

Billy, there is a chart in the fuse box, and yes I am pulling the correct fuse. I used my 5.1 disc in a friends RX330 and it worked. This leads me to believe that the Lexus GPS Police have disabled our ability to use hybrid discs in the '09. Since it appears that no one has been able to load a 5.1 disc in an RX09, this seems to be the case.

[John Midolo]

RhoXS, did you do like Step was saying? Get your system running and doing the normal nav thing, then put your hybrid in and without pulling the fuse see if the disc will allow you to add addresses, turn off and on POIs etc? Your hybrid disc should be able to do this since the map data is the same from OEM to hybrid.

If I insert the hybrid disk, without first pulling the fuse, the nav system appears to read the map data without an issue. I am in Florida and it found a location in Indiana so it appears to work.

This now implies even more strongly that the system is rejecting the 5.1 loading.kwi file and the burn is good. This is not good news. I still would like to find a hybrid version that is known to work but I now suspect the results will be the same.

I just had a thought. Is there more than one version of the 5.1 loading.kwi file? My 2009 RX350 has a Generation 5 nav system. Is there also a 5.1 loading.kwi file intended for a generation 4 system? If so, how does one tell the difference?

Does the OEM 5.1 disc work in your car? And does anyone know if the RX330 is Gen 4 or Gen 5?

[BillyShaft]

Does the OEM 5.1 disc work in your car? And does anyone know if the RX330 is Gen 4 or Gen 5?

The 2004 RX330 is Gen 3 and the 2005-2006 RX330 is Gen 4.

If your 5.1 works in any year RX330, we can guarantee that it won't work in your RX350. All RX350s (2007-2009) are Gen 5...

:(

While that is sort-of bad news, I think that it helps us figure out why your 5.1 and hence the hybrid disc won't work.

[RhoXS]

I used my 5.1 disc in a friends RX330 and it worked. This leads me to believe that the Lexus GPS Police have disabled our ability to use hybrid discs in the '09. Since it appears that no one has been able to load a 5.1 disc in an RX09, this seems to be the case.

I suspected this is the case for a few days now. I know my burns are good. I can consistently burn a usable clone either from an ISO of the OEM disk or by using ImgBurn and burning directly from the files stored on my hard drive. If I simply overwrite (on my hard drive) the 7.1 loading.kwi version with the 5.1 loading.kwi version, the burned disk will not load. However, the map and POI data are usable if I substitute the disk for the already loaded OEM disc. It is hard not to come to the conclusion that the system is rejecting loading the disc because it does not like the loading.kwi file.

Although it is certainly well beyond my ability, I am surprised no one has figured out how the loading.kwi file identifies itself. I used a hex editor to scan the file and can find nothing obvious to me. This is frustrating because it would probably take altering only a few bytes of data to spoof the system into thinking its loading a different version.

This is forcing me to consider a device such as Lockpick3. I wanted to avoid this method because interrupting the speed signal and then forcing the system to relocate itself does not seem like a very elegant solution for a number of reasons. Unfortunately, the system as it now operates is just unacceptable.

[selector]

To override with a hybrid disc:

1. Press Menu

2. Press Volume

3. Press Upper left hand corner of screen

4. Press Lower left hand corner of screen

5. Press Upper left hand corner of screen

6. Press Lower left hand corner of screen

You will then have the service menu.

Press and hold the "override" button for about 4 seconds and it will beep.

Press OK.

You need to do this every time you start the car if you want to be able to use the Nav while driving.

Just checking but can the hack be performed while driving? Or if I forget to do it when I start the car (stationary) will I have to stop the car again to do the above?

[BillyShaft]

Just checking but can the hack be performed while driving? Or if I forget to do it when I start the car (stationary) will I have to stop the car again to do the above?

I tried this out yesterday on my Gen 4 Nav system in the 06 RX400h. The hack can be performed on the fly...you do not need to have the car stopped to bypass.

On my 2003 RX300 with Gen 2/3 Nav, you had to be stopped to enter the bypass sequence because the System Options button would grey out when moving.

[barbk]

Just checking but can the hack be performed while driving? Or if I forget to do it when I start the car (stationary) will I have to stop the car again to do the above?

I tried this out yesterday on my Gen 4 Nav system in the 06 RX400h. The hack can be performed on the fly...you do not need to have the car stopped to bypass.

On my 2003 RX300 with Gen 2/3 Nav, you had to be stopped to enter the bypass sequence because the System Options button would grey out when moving.

We have a RX 350 purchased in 2007 but called a 2008 model. I have tried the "menu, volume, upper left, bottom left, upper left, botttom left " sequence numerous times and I cannot get the Service page to appear. Any suggestions?

Thanks

jackk

[BillyShaft]

Hey Jack(k),

Your system is a Gen 5 navigation system. This is important to note because the differences in generation determine what is and is not possible in terms of overriding the system

I suspect you have either a 6.1 or 7.1 data disc and either one of those will lock you out of the bypass sequence. You can check that (Menu---> disc ver or Info---> disc ver sorry dont remember which)

The way that people get around this is to make what is called a hybrid disc. They use their existing nav DVD data and make a new one while substituting the LOADING.KWI file from a 5.1 or earlier data disc. The LOADING file acts as the OS for the nav system, and that is what determines what features are enabled/disabled.

It is possible with a Gen 5 system to create a hybrid disc using the latest and greatest 8.1 data and the 5.1 LOADING file. You will retain all the override capability and have the latest POIs and maps, but you will lose the Automatic "I agree" screen and will once again have to tap I agree every startup.

Hope that helps with the concept of a Hybrid disc and what options are available for Gen 5. If you google Lexus hybrid nav disc, or even search the boards here, there are detailed instructions on what you need to do and how to do it.

Good Luck!

[barbk]

Hey Jack(k),

Your system is a Gen 5 navigation system. This is important to note because the differences in generation determine what is and is not possible in terms of overriding the system

I suspect you have either a 6.1 or 7.1 data disc and either one of those will lock you out of the bypass sequence. You can check that (Menu---> disc ver or Info---> disc ver sorry dont remember which)

The way that people get around this is to make what is called a hybrid disc. They use their existing nav DVD data and make a new one while substituting the LOADING.KWI file from a 5.1 or earlier data disc. The LOADING file acts as the OS for the nav system, and that is what determines what features are enabled/disabled.

It is possible with a Gen 5 system to create a hybrid disc using the latest and greatest 8.1 data and the 5.1 LOADING file. You will retain all the override capability and have the latest POIs and maps, but you will lose the Automatic "I agree" screen and will once again have to tap I agree every startup.

Hope that helps with the concept of a Hybrid disc and what options are available for Gen 5. If you google Lexus hybrid nav disc, or even search the boards here, there are detailed instructions on what you need to do and how to do it.

Good Luck!

Thanks. I had come to that conclusion by skipping around this site, but wasn't sure. Thanks again

[chickenslut]

Noob question here: will this downgrade the remaining touchscreen stuff like themes, icons, etc when making and loading a hybrid disc (5.1loading/6.1maps)? I ask because my wife gets really frustrated when things like that change (she does humor me and let me hack stuff), but we want to be able to change MP3 folders while driving and make destination changes and the utilize the override. Thanks in advance.

[BillyShaft]

Noob question here: will this downgrade the remaining touchscreen stuff like themes, icons, etc when making and loading a hybrid disc (5.1loading/6.1maps)? I ask because my wife gets really frustrated when things like that change (she does humor me and let me hack stuff), but we want to be able to change MP3 folders while driving and make destination changes and the utilize the override. Thanks in advance.

To be clear, I am usually talking about 5.1/6.1 hybrid discs because that is as good as Gen 4 people like me can get.

CS, you have a Gen 5 system, so the rules are different for you.

With a Gen 5, you can even use the latest 8.1 data disc, and use the 5.1 LOADING.KWI from a Gen 5 5.1 disc.

Here is the downside to this: Gen 5 8.1 eliminated the "I agree" screen. If you make a hybrid with a 5.1 loading file, you will regain the override, but you will have to go back to pushing the I agree button on start up.

None of the icons or themes will change, so you can rest easy on that.

Hope that helps.

[chickenslut]

Thanks Billy. I think I will try making a 5.1/6.1 hybrid for now to ease myself into all this and down the road if we need the upgrade to the 8.1 I will buy it, or see if one falls off a truck and lands online somewhere. The "I Agree" screen isn't that bad since we got used to it, but who knows, since in like 3 months I might be itching to muck with something else.