Warranty Fight!

[Lexus GS430 Guzzler]

PENDING RESOLUTION

[SKperformance]

You should be fine , Lexus doesn't nickle and dime it owners when it recognizes a fault , the dealer is just covering their !Removed!.

[steviej]

Hi Guys, I had this issue:

http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...showtopic=51622

I go to Lexus of Newport Beach, and surely enough - the motor to change between internal and external ait is broken; however, they have a bulletin from Lexus Corporate that the only way that motor could have broken was if someone forced it open.

I had installed that new Charcoal Filter last week - so now I'm being denied warranty service. They think I might have broken it. I explain that I only changed my filter BECAUSE it was broken and I was smelling everything. If I wasn't smelling the outside air, I wouldn't have given the cabin ACC filter another thought. It's not something I ever change.

And how the hell would they prove that I or whoever broke it? There's a myriad of issues that could go wrong, and the onlyw ay the warranty is void is if I'm the person who broke it - to which I absolutely deny.

I've escalated and should get an answer in 2 days.

Hoping that Lexus Corporate changes my unit is Plan A. if they don't, all I can do is lodge a complaint.

Plan B is using the 3rd party warranty I also have.

Plan C is duct tape.

Plan D is me paying for the fix - fat chance.

Plan E: Put the old filter back in and take it to a different dealer and have it covered under warranty.

steviej

[Lexus GS430 Guzzler]

Hi Guys, I had this issue:

http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...showtopic=51622

I go to Lexus of Newport Beach, and surely enough - the motor to change between internal and external ait is broken; however, they have a bulletin from Lexus Corporate that the only way that motor could have broken was if someone forced it open.

I had installed that new Charcoal Filter last week - so now I'm being denied warranty service. They think I might have broken it. I explain that I only changed my filter BECAUSE it was broken and I was smelling everything. If I wasn't smelling the outside air, I wouldn't have given the cabin ACC filter another thought. It's not something I ever change.

And how the hell would they prove that I or whoever broke it? There's a myriad of issues that could go wrong, and the onlyw ay the warranty is void is if I'm the person who broke it - to which I absolutely deny.

I've escalated and should get an answer in 2 days.

Hoping that Lexus Corporate changes my unit is Plan A. if they don't, all I can do is lodge a complaint.

Plan B is using the 3rd party warranty I also have.

Plan C is duct tape.

Plan D is me paying for the fix - fat chance.

Plan E: Put the old filter back in and take it to a different dealer and have it covered under warranty.

steviej

Yeah, I thought of Plan E also.

I'll do it after Plan A and B fail, and if I decide I'm too lazy to take them to small claims court.

Edit: Thinking about it though, I've already escalated to corporate, and since they're the ones who are paying the dealers, then I might not be able to do plan E.

Anyways, I'm going to post this for my own use later:

1.) I've been smelling the outside air since I got this car. It's why I went into the air filter box to changed it with a ACTIVATED CHARCOAL filter

2.) The Service Manager @ Newport Beach Lexus came off as a pompous !Removed! - most employees there do. After finding out that Lexus Bulletin stated that the ACC door breaking is a customer's fault, he chucked my paper in the trash and gave me corporate's number. When I asked to use the dealership's phone to call corporates 800 number, I WAS DENIED. So I call them on my broken cell, and he has the balls to sound annoyed at me when I hand him the phone to speak to the guy @ corporate.

3.) Where the hell does Lexus get off blaming the customer? I don't care if they have a 'bulletin', they can't just claim that I broke it when I changed the filter myself - I followed the directions in the user manual to the letter. I wouldn't have gone into the filter box in the 1st place if I wasn't sniffing smog and exhaust. A more thorough investigation would surely show that it was broken before I bought the car I am sure.

4.) Corporate also asked Lexus Newport Beach how much it would cost to change - Newport Lexus is quoting 1200, saying all sorts of things need to be changed. I'm afraid of corporate denying my claim due to cost. That would then force me to take them to small claims court, which I'm sure would cost them just as much if not more to fight.

It's lose-lose for them to deny me.

================Based on my after market carbon filter==========================

Q. Does installing an aftermarket part, automatically void my vehicle factory warranty? A. NO, According to the Magnusson-Moss Act of 1975 (see below):

The Magnusson-Moss Warranty - Federal Trade Commission Improvement Act of 1975 protects consumers from such fradulent activity by new car dealers. Under this Act, aftermarket equipment that improves performance does not void a vehicle manufacturer's orginial warranty, unless the warranty clearly states the addition of aftermarket equipment automatically voids your vehicle's warrany or if it can be proven that the aftermarket device is the direct cause of the failure. The easiest way to check this is to look in your owner's manual under, "what is not covered". Under Magnusson-Moss Act a dealer must prove, not just vocalize, that aftermarket equipment caused the need for repairs before they can deny warranty coverage. If they cannot prove such claim-or offer an explanation- it is your legal right to demand compliance with the warranty. The Federal Trade Commission (202.326.3128) administers the Magnusson-Moss Act and monitors compliance with warranty law.

http://www.ptuning.com/html/help_desk.cfm

[steviej]

how many miles on the car? Has the car been in for the 15K mile service?

If so, who is to say the dealership didn't bust the door when they changed out the filter during that service.

Threaten them with small claims. In small claims it all comes down to burden of proof.

You have a contract with Lexus.....the warranty. They are denying you what is rightly yours through the contract...service.

They will have to prove that you did in fact break the door, which will be hard for them. The charcol filter would in no way void the warranty. You simply replaced a Toyota part with an old style Toyota part. No wrong doing there. If it is an electric motor, then who is to say that it didn't break on its own. It is just a small electrical part that does break down. User error is not the only way these motors break.

Lexus of Newport beach is failing to realize a key element in this case. Over a person's lifetime, they may spend close to $300,000 in sales in service at car dealerships (just read that in my local automotive newspaper section). To lose a customer, which is what Lexus of Newport Beach is about to do, would mean a potential loss of revenue for them.

Mention small claims to Lexus Customer Service and see where it goes from there.

Keep us posted.

steviej

[Lexus GS430 Guzzler]

how many miles on the car? Has the car been in for the 15K mile service?

If so, who is to say the dealership didn't bust the door when they changed out the filter during that service.

Threaten them with small claims. In small claims it all comes down to burden of proof.

You have a contract with Lexus.....the warranty. They are denying you what is rightly yours through the contract...service.

They will have to prove that you did in fact break the door, which will be hard for them. The charcol filter would in no way void the warranty. You simply replaced a Toyota part with an old style Toyota part. No wrong doing there. If it is an electric motor, then who is to say that it didn't break on its own. It is just a small electrical part that does break down. User error is not the only way these motors break.

Lexus of Newport beach is failing to realize a key element in this case. Over a person's lifetime, they may spend close to $300,000 in sales in service at car dealerships (just read that in my local automotive newspaper section). To lose a customer, which is what Lexus of Newport Beach is about to do, would mean a potential loss of revenue for them.

Mention small claims to Lexus Customer Service and see where it goes from there.

Keep us posted.

steviej

That's what I'm saying. I'll get my answer tomorrow from their "specialist".

The car is 30k miles, and they printed out a paper to me that shows that the car was properly serviced up until now. The 15k miles thing was done on time.

They can't just revoke my warranty service just because they're assuming that I broke it. All they did was inspect it to see that the motor was broken, and then they saw the bulletin from Lexus and rejected it right away.

I would also warn anyone else here who goes to Newport Beach Lexus - they are pompous. I'm very cool headed, but if my roommate was put through this, he'd be tearing these guys a new hole.

[Lexus GS430 Guzzler]

Their "specialist" called me and asked for information....

I've repeated myself multiple times now - @ the dealership, @ corporate, and now to their "specialist". She had no information available at all.

I told her how the Service Manager pretty much blew me off and she's trying to understand how Newport Lexus came to the decision that I wasn't covered under the warranty.

So, I tell her the whole story again, and now I'm getting a bit infuriated. I stay calm, and explain to her the problems I'm going through. She's going to call Newport Lexus but they didn't even file a report of the inspection electronically. I might as well never have taken it in! They chucked my paper in the trash and they didn't even log my issue in their database.

Such a disconnect in communication - I'm going to get my car serviced in West Minster instead.

Newport Lexus Beach - YOU SUCK. You pompous bunch of jerks! Even the people who make chicken scratch there doing paperwork and reception are pompous jerks! I think it's a job requirement for them. Pompous, unhelpful, deceitful and infuriating.

Anyways, the "specialist" tells me that I need to bring in the car again for diagnosis. I already brought it in for Diagnosis. They just didn't log what they did or found into their database. They're putting me through the ringer and it just feels like they're putting in extra effort to find a way out of the warranty service they owe me.

This is a disappointment and I need to visit a different dealership. If I go back to Newport Beach Lexus, and get their treatment again, I'm going to explode on them, and that wouldn't be good for anyone.

[SOMEONE ELSE'S GOT MY NAME]

Not sure what this kind of repair / parts are:

(from OP) " ... - the motor to change between internal and external ait is broken ..."

What parts are you talking about? The filter box? Motor parts? Your avatar shows L.A. as your area ... curious ... why take a 60-90 minute drive to a dealer so far away? What year is your Lexus? Still under factory warranty? Extended warranty?

[steviej]

Their "specialist" called me and asked for information....

I've repeated myself multiple times now - @ the dealership, @ corporate, and now to their "specialist". She had no information available at all.

I told her how the Service Manager pretty much blew me off and she's trying to understand how Newport Lexus came to the decision that I wasn't covered under the warranty.

So, I tell her the whole story again, and now I'm getting a bit infuriated. I stay calm, and explain to her the problems I'm going through. She's going to call Newport Lexus but they didn't even file a report of the inspection electronically. I might as well never have taken it in! They chucked my paper in the trash and they didn't even log my issue in their database.

Such a disconnect in communication - I'm going to get my car serviced in West Minster instead.

Newport Lexus Beach - YOU SUCK. You pompous bunch of jerks! Even the people who make chicken scratch there doing paperwork and reception are pompous jerks! I think it's a job requirement for them. Pompous, unhelpful, deceitful and infuriating.

Anyways, the "specialist" tells me that I need to bring in the car again for diagnosis. I already brought it in for Diagnosis. They just didn't log what they did or found into their database. They're putting me through the ringer and it just feels like they're putting in extra effort to find a way out of the warranty service they owe me.

This is a disappointment and I need to visit a different dealership. If I go back to Newport Beach Lexus, and get their treatment again, I'm going to explode on them, and that wouldn't be good for anyone.

so you are saying that when you picked up your car after Newport Beach Lexus diagnosed it, they gave you no paperwork, you signed nothing?

If it were me, I would have gotten something from them in writing. No way would I have walked out without some kind of report.

Anywyay, you should ask the "specialist to meet with you and the general manager of Newport Beach Lexus in the office of the service manager. That way the pompous service manager can explain to his "higher ups" why he failed to document a service call that is bringing Newport Beach Lexus into bad light on the internet. Then have the specialist recommend a dealership that will be notificed by her to do the work and do it right.

If you have a friend that is a lawyer, just flash one of his cards. It wouldn't hurt.

steviej

[Lexus GS430 Guzzler]

Their "specialist" called me and asked for information....

I've repeated myself multiple times now - @ the dealership, @ corporate, and now to their "specialist". She had no information available at all.

I told her how the Service Manager pretty much blew me off and she's trying to understand how Newport Lexus came to the decision that I wasn't covered under the warranty.

So, I tell her the whole story again, and now I'm getting a bit infuriated. I stay calm, and explain to her the problems I'm going through. She's going to call Newport Lexus but they didn't even file a report of the inspection electronically. I might as well never have taken it in! They chucked my paper in the trash and they didn't even log my issue in their database.

Such a disconnect in communication - I'm going to get my car serviced in West Minster instead.

Newport Lexus Beach - YOU SUCK. You pompous bunch of jerks! Even the people who make chicken scratch there doing paperwork and reception are pompous jerks! I think it's a job requirement for them. Pompous, unhelpful, deceitful and infuriating.

Anyways, the "specialist" tells me that I need to bring in the car again for diagnosis. I already brought it in for Diagnosis. They just didn't log what they did or found into their database. They're putting me through the ringer and it just feels like they're putting in extra effort to find a way out of the warranty service they owe me.

This is a disappointment and I need to visit a different dealership. If I go back to Newport Beach Lexus, and get their treatment again, I'm going to explode on them, and that wouldn't be good for anyone.

so you are saying that when you picked up your car after Newport Beach Lexus diagnosed it, they gave you no paperwork, you signed nothing?

If it were me, I would have gotten something from them in writing. No way would I have walked out without some kind of report.

Anywyay, you should ask the "specialist to meet with you and the general manager of Newport Beach Lexus in the office of the service manager. That way the pompous service manager can explain to his "higher ups" why he failed to document a service call that is bringing Newport Beach Lexus into bad light on the internet. Then have the specialist recommend a dealership that will be notificed by her to do the work and do it right.

If you have a friend that is a lawyer, just flash one of his cards. It wouldn't hurt.

steviej

Yeah, I should have. I have this problem, where I assume people do their jobs right. Anyways, I'm collecting e-mail addresses and will start sending out the issue to everyone - corporate, the specialist, the service manager, the franchise owners, and the general customer service rep emails.

[soo icey]

any updates///let us know...

[Lexus GS430 Guzzler]

Every Lexus Dealership I've been to (3) has made up different excuses as to why it's not their fault.

Took the car to the dealership that last dealt with this issue and they claimed that too much time has passed since they replaced the filter - it could have broken any other way.

My counter is that they could do service for someone and not replace the engine air filter - then when the guy's car is clogged up and he brings it in - are they going to deny service because too much time has passed and claim that the customer was at fault?

--Issue Solved Through Haggling/compromise--

[Lexus GS430 Guzzler]

--Issue resolved through compromise/haggling--

[steviej]

Granted it is a poor design to have a filter door so easily broken and then not take responsibility for it. Welcome to the world of design, plan, build, resdesign.

You were not the first to break it, you won't be the last. Bring it to small claims. If not, what are you waiting for, go trade it in and don't tell the BMW or MB dealership that the cabin filter door is broken.

Lexus has models designed and marketed for all ages, as does BMW, Inifinty, Acura, and MB.

I hope you find the style of car that make you look sexy, cause your anger doesn't. :whistles: :P

steviej

[Lexus GS430 Guzzler]

Granted it is a poor design to have a filter door so easily broken and then not take responsibility for it. Welcome to the world of design, plan, build, resdesign.

You were not the first to break it, you won't be the last. Bring it to small claims. If not, what are you waiting for, go trade it in and don't tell the BMW or MB dealership that the cabin filter door is broken.

Lexus has models designed and marketed for all ages, as does BMW, Inifinty, Acura, and MB.

I hope you find the style of car that make you look sexy, cause your anger doesn't. :whistles: :P

steviej

It's better for me to vent online then to hold it in and head over the the dealership with a blunt object :P

And, again, this isn't about how the car looks. It's all about the failure of Lexus. I don't know why I read about these good experiences. Nothing but a bad experience all around, and I'll make sure Lexus pays for this one way or another. Any potential customer that talks to me, will be turned :P

[The G Man]

Do you really BMW, Inifinty, Acura, or MB would fix something under warranty if they have reason to believe you broke it. Lexus has some of the best dealer service around, I am not saying they make a better car but the dealers are definitely better. Like SteveJ said, just trade in the car as it is, no one will know about the broken flap. Then you can buy the G37 and change out steering components every 10,000 miles :)

[Lexus GS430 Guzzler]

Do you really BMW, Inifinty, Acura, or MB would fix something under warranty if they have reason to believe you broke it. Lexus has some of the best dealer service around, I am not saying they make a better car but the dealers are definitely better. Like SteveJ said, just trade in the car as it is, no one will know about the broken flap. Then you can buy the G37 and change out steering components every 10,000 miles :)

Dunno. Honda didn't give me these kinds of headaches. And Mercedes Benz has always been no questions asked.

I probably wont trade in the car right away as I'd just lose thousands that way, but I'm not paying the *BLEEP*s either - I'm pretty sure these guys broke it when they changed it last year and are trying to cop out.

[Lexus GS430 Guzzler]

Alright.

After a heated discussion and some haggling back and forth, Longo Lexus agreed to fix the issue as long as I got the 30k mileage service done with them.

[Lexus GS430 Guzzler]

Alright I go to pick up my car, and the driver's seat has scratches on the backrest. Possible from keys being worn on their backsides. Scratched up my leather.

The big thing is the electronic trunk release no longer works. Not from the button inside the car, from my keys, or from the button on the trunk. They gave me back my loaner and.......

ugh.

[The G Man]

If it wasnt for bad luck, you would have none, sorry to hear it.

[Lexus GS430 Guzzler]

If it wasnt for bad luck, you would have none, sorry to hear it.

Email from Lexus:

"We found the problem with the trunk, the valet button was disconnect when we remove the glove box to repair the blower box. We had reconnected the trunk cancel button, and we are currently repairing the scratch on the seat. The vehicle should be completed in an hour."

So, I'll head back soon.

[Lexus GS430 Guzzler]

If it wasnt for bad luck, you would have none, sorry to hear it.

Email from Lexus:

"We found the problem with the trunk, the valet button was disconnect when we remove the glove box to repair the blower box. We had reconnected the trunk cancel button, and we are currently repairing the scratch on the seat. The vehicle should be completed in an hour."

So, I'll head back soon.

Trunk works, that vent works, and leather is repaired.

I'm not calling this a victory, but I'm not calling this a loss either. It was a compromise.

For $380, they did the 30k service and fixed my vent. Then they fixed the trunk and scratches issue they created.

I had a Lexus RX350 for 1 week though, and I took it to Blackstar Canyon and some off roading fun. Clean it up and returned it good as new. All in all, I'm happy I fought this issue tooth and nail. Lexus is back in my good graces.

Noticed big differences between the dealers though:

1.) Newport Beach Lexus is staffed by a bunch of wankers. Prices are high on their merchandise and their selection of stuff is low. I thought this place was supposed to be their new and improved super dealership? Not impressed. A bit insulted. Will not give these guys another red cent.

2.) Westminster Lexus is in a crappy area, but top notch service and hospitality. Any work I need done from now on goes on here. Loaner cars have a 100 mile limit.

3.) Longo Lexus is decent. Somewhere in between Newport Beach and Westminster interms of quality. I think they have the best selection of merchandise with the best prices. All the stuff that I wanted for my Lexus but couldn't find were all at their shop here. Their service seemed lacking, but I'm very glad we were able to compromise and haggle. I'm sure they were annoyed with me, but they should have done things right the 1st time. I don't even mind that they didn't wash my car - I know they wanted me outta there and I wouldn't have trusted them not to scratch up the car. I need to check their workmanship over the next few days. Make sure the fluid levels are correct. It does look like they fixed the vents and rotated the tires. Surprised that they would put up such a fight with me, but that's how things get done. I would go back here to buy merchandise. Loaner cars have no mileage limits - very nice.