Tires Replacement

[lenore]

Well here's the story, I had a road hazard failure on one of my front tires (Michelin Cross Terrains) and they have 5/32 left of tread. When I went to Costco to get that tire replaced under warranty, I was informed that because my vehicle is AWD that they could only replace all 4 tires because of safety concerns. (Costco Policy) which by the way was never stated when I purchased the tires four years ago. Man, four tires when I only planned on one. I called Lexus of AMerica to get a statement of their policy, and they would not commit, but passed me to the local dealership (Lexus of Sacramento) Where I spoke to the Service Manager who said they had replaced a single tire many times with no problems, except that they would not back that up because I was at a third party vender(Costco). I am furious, one because when I bought the tires I was promised road hazard which they would commit to, but only on that one tire, the other 3 would be at full cost, two: because when I bought the tires nowhere on their contract does it state the weird warranty for the AWD/four wheel drive vehicles, and THree: No where in the owners manual does it state their is a problem other than using different size tire on the vehicle for replacement with the other ones being a different size. I finally got mad enough to get all four tires to be adjusted, but it was only $18 per tire for a $165 tire. They did not charge for mounting, but all taxes and disposal fees applied. Nice to have all new tires but quite frankly they would have gone another 20k miles on the old tires. What does everyone think about this????

[mccldwll]

Well here's the story, I had a road hazard failure on one of my front tires (Michelin Cross Terrains) and they have 5/32 left of tread. When I went to Costco to get that tire replaced under warranty, I was informed that because my vehicle is AWD that they could only replace all 4 tires because of safety concerns. (Costco Policy) which by the way was never stated when I purchased the tires four years ago. Man, four tires when I only planned on one. I called Lexus of AMerica to get a statement of their policy, and they would not commit, but passed me to the local dealership (Lexus of Sacramento) Where I spoke to the Service Manager who said they had replaced a single tire many times with no problems, except that they would not back that up because I was at a third party vender(Costco). I am furious, one because when I bought the tires I was promised road hazard which they would commit to, but only on that one tire, the other 3 would be at full cost, two: because when I bought the tires nowhere on their contract does it state the weird warranty for the AWD/four wheel drive vehicles, and THree: No where in the owners manual does it state their is a problem other than using different size tire on the vehicle for replacement with the other ones being a different size. I finally got mad enough to get all four tires to be adjusted, but it was only $18 per tire for a $165 tire. They did not charge for mounting, but all taxes and disposal fees applied. Nice to have all new tires but quite frankly they would have gone another 20k miles on the old tires. What does everyone think about this????

The policy stinks, and screaming is warranted. If manufacturer doesn't require it, no reason Costco can, unless spelled out beforehand. BUT, in the end you got an OK deal IMO since for past few years, for safety and handling reasons, I have considered 5/32 to be replacement point. From Consumer Reports:

"Tires are considered bald when one or more of their grooves reaches 2/32 of an inch deep, compared with about 10/32 of an inch for new tires (tread wear is usually measured in 1/32-inch increments). Manufacturers have made bald tires easier to spot by placing a series of molded horizontal bars at the base of the grooves. The bars become flush with surrounding tread when wear reduces a groove's depth to 2/32 of an inch. That's also the point where tires will flunk a state safety inspection--and where tread must be worn for you to collect on a tire's tread-wear warranty.

Unfortunately, 2/32 of an inch may be too late if you drive in rain or snow. Based on our tests of new and half-tread-depth tires, you may want to consider replacing the ones on your car or truck closer to the 5/32-inch groove depth that marks the half-tread point on many tires."

[mikey00]

On 10/5/06 Costco replaced one of my CTs on road hazzard warranty with no questions asked. However, I did have only about 15K on the set. There was no tire measurment on the receipt but doing some math it should have been around 8 or 9 32nds. Being you were down to 5/32, my math tells me to get 20K more you would have to take them all the way down to 2/32. It stinks that they didn't tell you the policy upfront. But I guess you were close enough to replacement that the deal shouldn't sting too bad.

[wwest]

Well here's the story, I had a road hazard failure on one of my front tires (Michelin Cross Terrains) and they have 5/32 left of tread. When I went to Costco to get that tire replaced under warranty, I was informed that because my vehicle is AWD that they could only replace all 4 tires because of safety concerns. (Costco Policy) which by the way was never stated when I purchased the tires four years ago. Man, four tires when I only planned on one. I called Lexus of AMerica to get a statement of their policy, and they would not commit, but passed me to the local dealership (Lexus of Sacramento) Where I spoke to the Service Manager who said they had replaced a single tire many times with no problems, except that they would not back that up because I was at a third party vender(Costco). I am furious, one because when I bought the tires I was promised road hazard which they would commit to, but only on that one tire, the other 3 would be at full cost, two: because when I bought the tires nowhere on their contract does it state the weird warranty for the AWD/four wheel drive vehicles, and THree: No where in the owners manual does it state their is a problem other than using different size tire on the vehicle for replacement with the other ones being a different size. I finally got mad enough to get all four tires to be adjusted, but it was only $18 per tire for a $165 tire. They did not charge for mounting, but all taxes and disposal fees applied. Nice to have all new tires but quite frankly they would have gone another 20k miles on the old tires. What does everyone think about this????

Costco wasn't technically correct but it's a little difficult for them to know that given the myriad of AWD designs out there in the marketplace.

If your RX were an '01 or later they would have been more correct than with the '99.

Beginning in '01 they used the ABS wheelspeed sensor to detect wheelspin/slip to implement a rear "virtual" LSD and an improved AWD system. So, disparate tire circumferences could have a serious detrimental effect. Otherwise, for your '99, the only thing affected would be your Anti-Lock system and I would assume that ABS has enough tolerances to deal with a reasonable level of tire circumference difference.

The problem is that Costco cannot make assumptions.

But it is my belief that you could have gotten by quite safely with just two new tires on the rear. But even that would result in extended wear rate for the center diff'l gearset and possibly overheating of the VC, Viscous Coupling.

So, all-in-all, Costco was correct.

[Grumpa72]

I would not have any problems doing just one set of tires, either the fronts or rears, as long as they are the same make and size. I would not just replace one tire though.

[lenore]

I would not have any problems doing just one set of tires, either the fronts or rears, as long as they are the same make and size. I would not just replace one tire though.

I offered up front to replace two tires on one axle, but Costco declined, said four or none....West thank you I tried to explain to Costco that the 99 RX was indeed a very different animal, but they dont look at specifics. My only real complaint now is that Costco should have disclosed this policy at the time of my original tire purchase... No where was it written on my original contract, as well as the new one. I will follow up on this, I admit that my tires would have been replaced in 20kmiles anyway, but by my choice, not Costco's.

[artbuc]

Well here's the story, I had a road hazard failure on one of my front tires (Michelin Cross Terrains) and they have 5/32 left of tread. When I went to Costco to get that tire replaced under warranty, I was informed that because my vehicle is AWD that they could only replace all 4 tires because of safety concerns. (Costco Policy) which by the way was never stated when I purchased the tires four years ago. Man, four tires when I only planned on one. I called Lexus of AMerica to get a statement of their policy, and they would not commit, but passed me to the local dealership (Lexus of Sacramento) Where I spoke to the Service Manager who said they had replaced a single tire many times with no problems, except that they would not back that up because I was at a third party vender(Costco). I am furious, one because when I bought the tires I was promised road hazard which they would commit to, but only on that one tire, the other 3 would be at full cost, two: because when I bought the tires nowhere on their contract does it state the weird warranty for the AWD/four wheel drive vehicles, and THree: No where in the owners manual does it state their is a problem other than using different size tire on the vehicle for replacement with the other ones being a different size. I finally got mad enough to get all four tires to be adjusted, but it was only $18 per tire for a $165 tire. They did not charge for mounting, but all taxes and disposal fees applied. Nice to have all new tires but quite frankly they would have gone another 20k miles on the old tires. What does everyone think about this????

I would say don't worry about it. If your taxes and disposal fees were say $18 per tire, you had to put out $165 per tire 20 months too early (assume you drive 1k miles per month). At 3% interest per year, you lost about $33. Since you got free mounting, I would say you are way ahead of the game.

[mccldwll]

How about continuing this tire replacement thread on on two fronts:

--OP wanted to could go 20K past 5/32 point, while I conservatively like to replace at that point for rain/snow/etc.. I know that generally tires wear faster to 1/2 tread point, but at what depth do posters here replace?

--At what point does the tread depth differential for post 2000 RXs become an issue requiring replacement of both tires on a single axle? Seems that 5/32 old/new difference results in @ 1" circumference differential. How closely is wheelspeed sensor really analyzing it, and what is it taking into account since also differences in tire circumference travel/speed whenever not going straight?

[RX in NC]

To get back to your original question Lenore, you got ripped off and I think you already know that. Although I don't like replacing just one tire due to an unexpected problem, I've done it on several occasions going back to the 1970s. I've done it on RWD vehicles, part-time 4x4 vehicles, and AWD vehicles. It has never created a problem for the vehicle, and I've never had a tire seller refuse to honor their warranty as a result of just one tire suffering unrepairable damage whether from a screw, a nail, a pothole, or in one case my wife running into the curb and exploding her right front tire (I'll never forget that little incident with her quirky but fun little 1982 Fiat Spider convertible with its soft Pirelli tires back in the days when we had far too many toy cars in our driveway). But we all know the inferiority of the early RX AWD transmissions, and it is impossible to predict whether one new tire on your vehicle could have caused potential problems with your already-rebuilt transmission assembly. Still another reason why I'm very glad that my wife's previous 2000 RX300 AWD is long-gone from our garage....

I really despise being forced to replace tires until all four need to go, and I think that Costco hosed you down in this case. I would have stood my ground and escalated the situation to the next level of management. If management continued to refuse to honor their warranty on your one damaged tire, I certainly would not have purchased my next set of tires from them. In any case I hope your new tires serve you well although I find the Cross Terrains to be way overpriced although I'm sure their overall performance is fine. I was a Michelin guy in the 70s and 80s and into the early 90s, but not anymore. Their products often carry inferior warranties (or no warranties) compared to other manufacturers that build as good or better tires at far better prices....

[wwest]

A bit of a clue....

Prior to moving to the RX series I owned two Jeeps, an 85 and a 92, both with RWD/AWD/4WD modes. I had at least one occassion to replace only one tire and luckily the spare was of the same brand and type. So I purchased one tire and put the spare on the ground. Best traction always goes on the rear. The only problem that resulted was the transfer case would not easily shift in and out of 4WD mode, I had to drive very slowly or sometimes even in reverse to shift from/to 4WD. That was likely due to the desparate rotational rate of the front and rear driveline.

In Costco's favor....

There is no way for any one of us to know the "learning" tolerance, adjustment range, of the ABS with regards to desparate wheel rotation rates during serve braking when ABS is more subject to activation. So one NEW tire, especially on the front (NEVER...!!) could clearly lead to loss of directional control in the right (WRONG) circumstance.

The same can/could be said of the TC, Traction Control on the '99 FWD versions and the '01 and later AWD versions.

Lastly, absent knowing the specific design parameters of the VC, Viscous Coupling, there is no real way to know if the vehicle's handling would/might be adversely affected even with two new tires and only on the rear.

And....how many other tire shops would have followed the very same procedure and with no "warning" at purchase time.

[lenore]

Good points everyone, I am going to pursue this with the Manager of the Store, he unfortunately was at a funeral that afternoon. Maybe I can get a few concessions from him. If this was a policy when I purchased the tires originally it should have been disclosed. Fortunately I had the ability to purchase the tires, and the car does ride better. I got almost 50k on the original tires and my wife noticed the ride difference. As RX said I got hosed, sort of, I did elevate to the assistant manager and got some concessions, (prorations on the other three tires and free mounting and balancing) $550 out the door isnt all that bad considering the pricey Michelin Cross Terrains. Thanks everyone for your input, This is a great forum. I am a business member at costco and have 16 memberships under my name, I also have been a long time member dating back to when Costco was Price Club, So this next week we will see if the manager gives me some consideration. Money is money, and 20k miles of lost mileage is 20k miles of lost revenue in my pocket.

[SW03ES]

Unfortunately many tire chains do have weird policies like that to reduce liability. I've had chains refuse to mount specific tires on cars for me before.

I do agree that replacing all 4 so the wear is even across all the tires is the ideal scenario, but I've always been told by everyone in the auto repair industry I trust (of which there are few) that replacing two is fine and the new ones should go on the rear regardless of what wheels are the drive wheels. However I have always been told never to replace only one tire on an axle unless the set is brand new.

So...I'd replace at least two, even if the road hazard warranty will only cover one. Especially at 5/32nds. At 5/32nds I'd replace the whole set like Costco is trying to strong arm you into doing.

You may have no choice but to get the tires from somewhere other than Costco though, I've never gotten them to go outside their corporate policy.

[wwest]

Or,

Lenore could have simply returned, maybe to a different Costco, with only the one damaged tire/wheel "in hand" and asked for a hazard failure warranty replacement.....

[lenore]

Yes West, I considered that, but dropped in, and could have left and done that at the next nearest Costco. Oh well water under the Bridge, but will see if I can pry some more dollars out of the manager tomorrow.

[RX in NC]

Yep, whenever I have a tire that has picked up a nail or has developed a leaky valve stem, I remove just that wheel from the vehicle and take it in for what is called a "loose repair" in the tire business. That saves the tire dealer some work in having to remove and re-install your wheel, and more importantly it takes your other three perfectly good tires out of play in the transaction. The tire dealers don't bear any additional liability other than repairing or replacing your tire on the rim properly because they mark your receipt as "loose wheel" meaning it is your responsibility to remount the wheel properly on your vehicle....

From now on Lenore, this would be the way to go if future tire problems should arise....

[mccldwll]

Yep, whenever I have a tire that has picked up a nail or has developed a leaky valve stem, I remove just that wheel from the vehicle and take it in for what is called a "loose repair" in the tire business. That saves the tire dealer some work in having to remove and re-install your wheel, and more importantly it takes your other three perfectly good tires out of play in the transaction. The tire dealers don't bear any additional liability other than repairing or replacing your tire on the rim properly because they mark your receipt as "loose wheel" meaning it is your responsibility to remount the wheel properly on your vehicle....

From now on Lenore, this would be the way to go if future tire problems should arise....

How much tread depth difference do you consider OK?

[lexusmom]

Better to replace 4 tires for $18 a piece than to pay around $600 or so for a new set in 20K miles. :)

[mccldwll]

Better to replace 4 tires for $18 a piece than to pay around $600 or so for a new set in 20K miles. :)

mom--$18/tire was adjustment (discount) per tire, not the price.

[lenore]

Yes that is correct the tires ended up costing $550

[RX in NC]

As far as how much tread depth difference would be okay between one brand new tire and the three remaining tires, that is going to vary from vehicle to vehicle. Big, heavy vehicles with heavy-duty, well-proven transmissions (like my 1999 Dodge Ram pickup) aren't going to care nearly as much as an early-model RX AWD would with its well-known flaky transmission. Most new SUV/pickup truck tires that are decent or better have from 12/32 to 14/32 of tread right off the rack. If the remaining three tires are running around with 8/32 or 9/32 of tread still on them, even the flaky RX will probably be okay. But if you're down there close to 3/32 or less on your remaining tires and slap a new 14/32 tread tire on one rim, an RX might start revolting. I don't think my Ram would care one bit, though....

When I've replaced just one tire in the past, regardless of the vehicle, I believe that the remaining three tires all had at least 50% of their treadlife remaining. That may not have been the case a number of years back when my daughter's hand-me-down 1989 Acura Legend picked up a non-repairable screw in one tire and we had to replace it. Since I knew she would be due for new tires within 10,000 miles or less and to save her some money as well, I spent a Saturday morning on the phone shopping around for a decent used tire that would match her other three in approximate treadwear. The car was running a set of Dunlop D60 A2 tires at the time, and I found a good one at a reputable used tire dealer that had been around forever in these parts. I drove over with her to inspect it myself, it was in good shape for a used tire, and I made a deal with the guy for $30 including balancing (no new valve stem was necessary because the car had BBS wheels with built-in metal valve stems). Gave him the $30 in cash, watched him mount and balance that one tire on the rim, tossed the rim in the back of my truck, and we drove off with my daughter happy. That used tire held up just fine and six months later I donated that Acura to charity as a tax write-off. The BBS wheels were probably worth more than the car at that point....

[lenore]

Oh I will never forget the night I went to my daughters disaster of blowing three tires at once....Dont know how, but I think she ran over some parking curbs or as they would say I dont know what happened. I Had to buy two used tires at a Service station and the spare to get the darn thing home....Oh we daddies are the saviors arent we....

[lenore]

well it has happened again. about 3 weeks ago I noticed a nail in one of the Cross terrains. No big deal Costco repaired with a combination patch/plug. TodayWhile driving down highway the plug blew out. Temp was 108 degrees outside and while negoitiating off the freeway the tire was damaged. took to costco and they no longer have Cross terrains. The tire has only 15k miles on it and is just over a year old. Looks like brand new. The tires have between 9 and 10 /32 on them. new I believe they were 12/32. so the first deal was prorate and offer a Michelin Latitude. I dont know the specs, ie revolutions per mile etc. but am concerned. I had to buy four tires last time because of Coscto policy. The battle starts tomorrow.

[RX in NC]

Take the wheel off the vehicle and take it somewhere other than Costco to have it patched, not plugged. Many chains around here patch tires and in this down economy, they'll take all the business they can get and are even offering coupons for free or discounted tire patching. Just Tires, Precision Tune, and others have been sending out coupons in our local newspapers for months. I keep a stack of them to use as needed or give to family and friends who pick up nails in their tires. Never had a properly-patched tire blow out on me. Plugging is a different story. I have a plugging kit and use it from time to time primarily as a temporary fix until I can get the tire patched....

If your blown tire is still in good shape with the nail hole in the tread pattern and not in the sidewall, call around to these various tire chains and get it patched properly (meaning the tire comes off the rim, the patch is applied from the inside with strong bonding cement, the tire is then remounted on the rim, inflated to your specified pressure, the wheel is balanced, and you're out the door for no more than $25 and often less)....

If you need to get a replacement Cross Terrain and Costco can't sell you one, check with tirerack.com....

[lenore]

Take the wheel off the vehicle and take it somewhere other than Costco to have it patched, not plugged. Many chains around here patch tires and in this down economy, they'll take all the business they can get and are even offering coupons for free or discounted tire patching. Just Tires, Precision Tune, and others have been sending out coupons in our local newspapers for months. I keep a stack of them to use as needed or give to family and friends who pick up nails in their tires. Never had a properly-patched tire blow out on me. Plugging is a different story. I have a plugging kit and use it from time to time primarily as a temporary fix until I can get the tire patched....

If your blown tire is still in good shape with the nail hole in the tread pattern and not in the sidewall, call around to these various tire chains and get it patched properly (meaning the tire comes off the rim, the patch is applied from the inside with strong bonding cement, the tire is then remounted on the rim, inflated to your specified pressure, the wheel is balanced, and you're out the door for no more than $25 and often less)....

If you need to get a replacement Cross Terrain and Costco can't sell you one, check with tirerack.com....

The plug was a patch with a plug that comes from the inside. they have to break the tire down to install. I am mystified how it failed, unless done incorrectly or defective. I know the plug you are talking about, I have some myself. This is a different animal, kind of like a one legged table shape. the leg goes through the hole and the table is left inside the tire. As for the Cross terrrain. the size is the problem. they dont make it anymore.

[SW03ES]

I bet Tire Rack will have it...