Scary Lexus Dealers

[kingjack133]

Took my 2 week old 92 es300 to the dealer to get my new key and have it programmed. I was a little leery at best trusting them for even such a "simple" task but i figured ....cmon....how can they eff me on this? I was nice and said as little as possible and they took it into the shop and began what was a 45 minute job of programming the new key. It was finally ready to go and they gave me the new key.

I thought to just make sure everything worked. BOOM! the power doorlocks were dead.I marched back to the manager and told him. Well wouldn t you know he figured that "maybe" it didn t work before i brought it in as people DO that. I m choked at the semi accusation and told him that everything in my pristine beauty works and its something to do with the new key. Besides why are they suddenly not working on both sides(the passenger too). We went in circles for a while and he asked if i had a lot of time....and they would look at it! He suggested it was mechanical and they would pull the door panel. This was really scaring me! I m leaving on a 1200 mile trip in the morning and don t want them effing anything else up....so i said i ll come back in a week.

Back out to the car, alittle stressed, and do more checking. OK, no domelite,no antenna, no running lights! I m freaked and march back in with semi violent thoughts in my mind, but keep cool and let "henry" know whats up. AND, now i DO have time....get it fixed! There is a lady and she says before it gets crazy it could be a fuse! The mechanic takes the car and tracks me down 15 minutes later saying he is sorry and it WAS a simple fuse. It all works again.! But i ll tell you...that little manager is what *BLEEP*ed me off and very relieved i got the hell out of there and will never use a dealer if i can help it!!!!

YOU JUST CAN T TRUST THEM !!!!!!!

..

[SW03ES]

First of all, calm down. The car is 16 years old, its not 2 weeks old. Things like that are going to happen. Theres no way the dealer could have done anything to the electrical system while programming a key, it was just a coincidence that the fuse blew at the same time the dealer had the car in their posession.

Not all the dealers are created equal (mine is fantastic, but I've been to less fantastic ones) but you have to be reasonable. In what way does this experience tell you that you can't trust the dealers?

[kingjack133]

First of all, calm down. The car is 16 years old, its not 2 weeks old. Things like that are going to happen. Theres no way the dealer could have done anything to the electrical system while programming a key, it was just a coincidence that the fuse blew at the same time the dealer had the car in their posession.

Not all the dealers are created equal (mine is fantastic, but I've been to less fantastic ones) but you have to be reasonable. In what way does this experience tell you that you can't trust the dealers?

SW03ES, the car IS two weeks old to me. The manager suggested it WAS a coincidence the doorlocks malfunctioned just there and it had nothing to do with the key job. I disagree! Something caused that fuse to BLOW! They are professionals and at $400+ for a key they should make sure all systems are a go after working on a computer?electrical ?...system. Is that not a reasonable expectation???

The representative of the dealer.the service manager, basically insinuated that we....the customers....were dishonest and bringing our malfunctioning vehicles in for free repairs! That really IRKS me! Ive been driving for over 40 years and have dealt with dealerships before and his kind of ignorance is rampant in the dealership world....take a reading pal!

PS. I do apologize to the 1% of management who might just be regular guys doing an honest job and actually CARE about the customer!(I even know one but is in another city).

And i don t fault the technician as there is obviously little quality control ...as in procedures......when a perfectly functional car comes in healthy and is sent off wounded!!!!!............I truly believe this so don t trust the dealers and I thank you for your comments!

[SW03ES]

But you have to be realistic. The car may be two weeks old to you, but that doesn't change the fact that the car is really 16 years old. Cars are machines, and machines that old understandably have things like that happen. Why would the dealer try and cover up something as simple as a blown fuse?

Pray tell, how could the dealer have blown a fuse while programming the key? Yes something had to happen to blow the fuse. Whatever it is will probably cause the fuse to blow again, and again, and again, until you find the cause of the spike in the car's electrical system. Why would they have inspected the car's electrical system after programming a key? Again, its a simple procedure that requires nothing to be done to the car's electrical systems. Inspections like that are not free. Yes, it is unreasonable to expect that they would inspect the car's electrical system after programming a key. If the dealer were a crook they would have tried to charge you a bunch of stuff to fix the electrical system. Instead they replaced the fuse...probably for free.

Did you pay $400 for the key? On a 16 year old car? They saw you coming. Thats like 14% of the car's value...

A master smart key on a brand new LS460 isn't $400...

You have to get a grip on reality. Even if the car is new to you, its not new. You can't expect the car to perform as if it were new, and you can't expect the dealership and Lexus as a car company to support you and the car as if it were new. They'll do checks like that on new cars in the warranty period, but most people with cars that old that come in for things like keys and they don't want (or can't afford) the dealer to snoop around and look for things they'll have to pay to fix. They probably just assumed you knew certain things weren't functioning and didn't care.

If you went in there hooting and hollering about the car being 2 weeks old when its really 16 years old and "having semi-violent thoughts" to where people told you to "calm down" they probably thought you were a lunatic and just wanted you out of the dealership.

[powerwave]

geez. dealers consider guys like the OP to be scary. coincidences happen, especially on older cars. i can think of three off the top of my head that have happened to us on one side of the coin or another.

so in short, chill.

[kingjack133]

But you have to be realistic. The car may be two weeks old to you, but that doesn't change the fact that the car is really 16 years old. Cars are machines, and machines that old understandably have things like that happen. Why would the dealer try and cover up something as simple as a blown fuse?

Pray tell, how could the dealer have blown a fuse while programming the key? Yes something had to happen to blow the fuse. Whatever it is will probably cause the fuse to blow again, and again, and again, until you find the cause of the spike in the car's electrical system. Why would they have inspected the car's electrical system after programming a key? Again, its a simple procedure that requires nothing to be done to the car's electrical systems. Inspections like that are not free. Yes, it is unreasonable to expect that they would inspect the car's electrical system after programming a key. If the dealer were a crook they would have tried to charge you a bunch of stuff to fix the electrical system. Instead they replaced the fuse...probably for free.

Did you pay $400 for the key? On a 16 year old car? They saw you coming. Thats like 14% of the car's value...

A master smart key on a brand new LS460 isn't $400...

You have to get a grip on reality. Even if the car is new to you, its not new. You can't expect the car to perform as if it were new, and you can't expect the dealership and Lexus as a car company to support you and the car as if it were new. They'll do checks like that on new cars in the warranty period, but most people with cars that old that come in for things like keys and they don't want (or can't afford) the dealer to snoop around and look for things they'll have to pay to fix. They probably just assumed you knew certain things weren't functioning and didn't care.

If you went in there hooting and hollering about the car being 2 weeks old when its really 16 years old and "having semi-violent thoughts" to where people told you to "calm down" they probably thought you were a lunatic and just wanted you out of the dealership.

All i m saying is if you have a specialized key made , one that must be programmed, it might be a good idea to SEE IF IT WORKS!!!?? IN this case they would have noticed it DIDN T and found the cause(fuse) and remedied the problem.ok?

I don t set the key prices. ANOTHER dealership where i bought the es is paying the tab....so unlike you they DIDN T see me coming.

I don t hoot or holler....you probably do....

and...the more you type it seems the less i take you seriously. You just don t get it....and i m sure you will type some more!

[kingjack133]

geez. dealers consider guys like the OP to be scary. coincidences happen, especially on older cars. i can think of three off the top of my head that have happened to us on one side of the coin or another.

so in short, chill.

....a simple case of poor Q.C....if the car was lets say an 03 the same thing could happen ....hey, even a new car could blow a fuse, so after what age on a car does coincidence begin?................thanx for the comment (chillinbabychillinlol)

[2JZTWIN TURBO]

First of all, calm down. The car is 16 years old, its not 2 weeks old. Things like that are going to happen. Theres no way the dealer could have done anything to the electrical system while programming a key, it was just a coincidence that the fuse blew at the same time the dealer had the car in their posession.

Not all the dealers are created equal (mine is fantastic, but I've been to less fantastic ones) but you have to be reasonable. In what way does this experience tell you that you can't trust the dealers?

SW03ES, the car IS two weeks old to me. The manager suggested it WAS a coincidence the doorlocks malfunctioned just there and it had nothing to do with the key job. I disagree! Something caused that fuse to BLOW! They are professionals and at $400+ for a key they should make sure all systems are a go after working on a computer?electrical ?...system. Is that not a reasonable expectation???

The representative of the dealer.the service manager, basically insinuated that we....the customers....were dishonest and bringing our malfunctioning vehicles in for free repairs! That really IRKS me! Ive been driving for over 40 years and have dealt with dealerships before and his kind of ignorance is rampant in the dealership world....take a reading pal!

PS. I do apologize to the 1% of management who might just be regular guys doing an honest job and actually CARE about the customer!(I even know one but is in another city).

And i don t fault the technician as there is obviously little quality control ...as in procedures......when a perfectly functional car comes in healthy and is sent off wounded!!!!!............I truly believe this so don t trust the dealers and I thank you for your comments!

We dread customers like you. If you go to the doctor with a broken arm and get herpes the next day is it the doctors fault? Do you get angry and accuse him of giving you herpes? There couldn't be any other explination! Totally unreasonable! :chairshot:

[wwest]

First of all, calm down. The car is 16 years old, its not 2 weeks old. Things like that are going to happen. Theres no way the dealer could have done anything to the electrical system while programming a key, it was just a coincidence that the fuse blew at the same time the dealer had the car in their posession.

Not all the dealers are created equal (mine is fantastic, but I've been to less fantastic ones) but you have to be reasonable. In what way does this experience tell you that you can't trust the dealers?

SW03ES, the car IS two weeks old to me. The manager suggested it WAS a coincidence the doorlocks malfunctioned just there and it had nothing to do with the key job. I disagree! Something caused that fuse to BLOW! They are professionals and at $400+ for a key they should make sure all systems are a go after working on a computer?electrical ?...system. Is that not a reasonable expectation???

The representative of the dealer.the service manager, basically insinuated that we....the customers....were dishonest and bringing our malfunctioning vehicles in for free repairs! That really IRKS me! Ive been driving for over 40 years and have dealt with dealerships before and his kind of ignorance is rampant in the dealership world....take a reading pal!

PS. I do apologize to the 1% of management who might just be regular guys doing an honest job and actually CARE about the customer!(I even know one but is in another city).

And i don t fault the technician as there is obviously little quality control ...as in procedures......when a perfectly functional car comes in healthy and is sent off wounded!!!!!............I truly believe this so don t trust the dealers and I thank you for your comments!

We dread customers like you.

On the other hand...

If you go to the doctor with a broken arm and get a staf infection the next day is it the doctors fault?

YES! Becoming commonplace event.

Do you get angry and accuse him of giving you herpes? There couldn't be any other explination! Totally unreasonable! :chairshot:

Look at it this way...At the PRICE, wouldn't the mechanic have been remiss NOT to have checked all the functions of the new key??

[2JZTWIN TURBO]

First of all, calm down. The car is 16 years old, its not 2 weeks old. Things like that are going to happen. Theres no way the dealer could have done anything to the electrical system while programming a key, it was just a coincidence that the fuse blew at the same time the dealer had the car in their posession.

Not all the dealers are created equal (mine is fantastic, but I've been to less fantastic ones) but you have to be reasonable. In what way does this experience tell you that you can't trust the dealers?

SW03ES, the car IS two weeks old to me. The manager suggested it WAS a coincidence the doorlocks malfunctioned just there and it had nothing to do with the key job. I disagree! Something caused that fuse to BLOW! They are professionals and at $400+ for a key they should make sure all systems are a go after working on a computer?electrical ?...system. Is that not a reasonable expectation???

The representative of the dealer.the service manager, basically insinuated that we....the customers....were dishonest and bringing our malfunctioning vehicles in for free repairs! That really IRKS me! Ive been driving for over 40 years and have dealt with dealerships before and his kind of ignorance is rampant in the dealership world....take a reading pal!

PS. I do apologize to the 1% of management who might just be regular guys doing an honest job and actually CARE about the customer!(I even know one but is in another city).

And i don t fault the technician as there is obviously little quality control ...as in procedures......when a perfectly functional car comes in healthy and is sent off wounded!!!!!............I truly believe this so don t trust the dealers and I thank you for your comments!

We dread customers like you.

On the other hand...

If you go to the doctor with a broken arm and get a staf infection the next day is it the doctors fault?

YES! Becoming commonplace event.

Do you get angry and accuse him of giving you herpes? There couldn't be any other explination! Totally unreasonable! :chairshot:

Look at it this way...At the PRICE, wouldn't the mechanic have been remiss NOT to have checked all the functions of the new key??

The point was they are unrelated. Customers ALWAYS do this. Come in for an oil change and a week later its the dealers fault because the tail light is burnt out. I'm not saying mistakes aren't made but Coincidence happens.

[powerwave]

mechanics are paid flat rate. he got $18 for the job if he's lucky, don't gimme that "for that price" line. "that price" is 80% dealer profit.

[SW03ES]

He never said the KEY didn't work, he said the dome lights and door locks failed to work. I'm sure they tested the KEY, but why would they have tested the car's electrical system?

And the keys do not cost $400. Who told you they cost $400?

[kingjack133]

He never said the KEY didn't work, he said the dome lights and door locks failed to work. I'm sure they tested the KEY, but why would they have tested the car's electrical system?

And the keys do not cost $400. Who told you they cost $400?

Keys are for doorlocks and lexus dealers come up with outrageous prices and i m thinking you may not be too sharp!

[Lexucan]

He never said the KEY didn't work, he said the dome lights and door locks failed to work. I'm sure they tested the KEY, but why would they have tested the car's electrical system?

And the keys do not cost $400. Who told you they cost $400?

Keys are for doorlocks and lexus dealers come up with outrageous prices and i m thinking you may not be too sharp!

I'm with you on this, kingjack133

All too often the "coincidence" excuse is used to explain away what could more accurately be termed as "negligence". And like you said, had they tested the key after programming it - which is a completely reasonable expectation on your part - they would have realized that something was wrong.

So, either they didn't test the key, which IMO is negligent, or they did test the key and found it didn't do what it was supposed to do, but just gave you the key, got their $400, and sent you on your merry way without out saying a word. That's also negligent. Even if they felt they were totally not at fault, they should have at least said, "Hey sir, we noticed that you may have a fuse out." They apparently said nothing. And to make matters worse, when you questioned the fact that the doorlocks weren't working after the key was programmed, they insinuated that you were trying to pull a fast one on them. That in itself, is completey uncalled for and insulting.

The idea that a fuse blew on its own AFTER they tested the key but BEFORE they gave the key back to you is quite the coincidence.

And to anybody who would accept such a "coincidence"....well, I guess they'd easily spot the 'SUCKER' sign on your forehead too...:whistles:

[powerwave]

you can't say at what point the fuse blew. maybe it was after the tech finished the job. maybe it popped when you started the car. it's not like you can spot a failing fuse, you know. they just go. if they noticed it, they would have tried to sell you something. you've got this huge mistrust of dealers thing going on, and yet you think they'd pass up an opportunity to charge you for something? HA!

at any rate, i can tell you many stories of people who have tried to pin their car breaking on US because we fixed something completely irrelevant. the best one was the a/c compressor story... late spring we put a set of vcg's on someone's car and a week later it got hot out. they turned on the a/c. compressor made horrible noise. gee, that must be powerwave's fault, yeah, they were under the hood last week.

i've got more.

[SW03ES]

Keys are for doorlocks and lexus dealers come up with outrageous prices and i m thinking you may not be too sharp!

First of all can the "I'm thinking you may not be too sharp" crap be it to me or anyone else. If you're going to post things to a public forum, be ready for people to disagree with you. If you can't handle that without personally insulting others we will ask you to leave the club.

And show me where the key for a 1992 ES300 costs $400 from your dealer. It doesn't.

Keys also start cars, how would the power door locks be affected in you starting the car? The 92 ES doesn't have a key that unlocks car doors remotely, thats a seperate fob.

In any event, the car is fixed and it didn't cost you anything so whats the big deal?

[kingjack133]

you can't say at what point the fuse blew. maybe it was after the tech finished the job. maybe it popped when you started the car. it's not like you can spot a failing fuse, you know. they just go. if they noticed it, they would have tried to sell you something. you've got this huge mistrust of dealers thing going on, and yet you think they'd pass up an opportunity to charge you for something? HA!

at any rate, i can tell you many stories of people who have tried to pin their car breaking on US because we fixed something completely irrelevant. the best one was the a/c compressor story... late spring we put a set of vcg's on someone's car and a week later it got hot out. they turned on the a/c. compressor made horrible noise. gee, that must be powerwave's fault, yeah, they were under the hood last week.

i've got more.

yes and all from your personal perspective....try looking at it from the other side. Try having a balanced view.

Tell us some stories about the completely irrelevent work you ve done , how you screwed the innocent customer by denying it and and how you keep the heat off you by putting it on others....

[SW03ES]

Again I tell you DO NOT personally attack members on our forums. You just called powerwave a crook and I will not allow that to happen.

LAST warning.

Anyways, I find it pretty comical hypocracy that you would ask anyone to look at it from the other side or to have a balanced view

[powerwave]

yes and all from your personal perspective....try looking at it from the other side. Try having a balanced view.

Tell us some stories about the completely irrelevent work you ve done , how you screwed the innocent customer by denying it and and how you keep the heat off you by putting it on others....

LOL, yeah we screw people over. we replace a set of vcg's on a v6 camry for under a hundred bucks and that's !Removed! people over. if you can tell me how a worn out a/c compressor bearing and a valve cover gasket replacement are related i'll retract all my statements.

you want the other side? we've had that on our cars too. try a cv boot job shortly before having to replace a wheel bearing... unrelated! or throwing a clutch into a car only to have a halfshaft go. unrelated! oh oh i know! we just dropped an engine and trans into an es250 in july and a bearing is starting to go in the engine.

SH** happens! some of us just know how to get over it.

[kingjack133]

Keys are for doorlocks and lexus dealers come up with outrageous prices and i m thinking you may not be too sharp!

First of all can the "I'm thinking you may not be too sharp" crap be it to me or anyone else. If you're going to post things to a public forum, be ready for people to disagree with you. If you can't handle that without personally insulting others we will ask you to leave the club.

And show me where the key for a 1992 ES300 costs $400 from your dealer. It doesn't.

Keys also start cars, how would the power door locks be affected in you starting the car? The 92 ES doesn't have a key that unlocks car doors remotely, thats a seperate fob.

In any event, the car is fixed and it didn't cost you anything so whats the big deal?

for the last time..........ask richmond lexus the cost of a key

yes keys start cars............but they have to unlock the door FIRST!!!!!

we are getting nowhere with this ....so i have nothing more on this topic

thanks for your interest

[kingjack133]

Again I tell you DO NOT personally attack members on our forums. You just called powerwave a crook and I will not allow that to happen.

LAST warning.

Anyways, I find it pretty comical hypocracy that you would ask anyone to look at it from the other side or to have a balanced view

i don t appreciate being called a comical hypocrate

[SW03ES]

i don t appreciate being called a comical hypocrate

I didn't call you a comical hypocrite, I said your statement was comically hypocritical, which it was. You can't possibly disagree that your asking powerwave (who works for a dealer) to see things from a customer's point of view and to have a fair and balanced opinion when you have been violently unwilling to even entertain the idea that the dealer is not at fault for your issue or even to remotely see anything from a dealer's perspective. That is the textbook definition of hypocrisy.

Hypocrite- a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, esp. one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements.

Theres absolutely no way you can deny that your request of someone else to be fair and balanced when you refuse to be is hypocritical.

yes keys start cars............but they have to unlock the door FIRST!!!!!

Yes, but unlocking the door with the key is a mechanical operation, there are no electronics involved therefore any problem with the electrical system of the car would be completely seperate from the key, which is what we've been saying all along.

You said the POWER door locks wouldn't work. Using the key to unlock the door manually has nothing to do with the power door locks.

so i have nothing more on this topic

thanks for your interest

You had nothing to begin with on this topic because you have absolutely no grounds for your complaint. Something happened to the electrical system of your car while under the dealer's care (supposedly), you brought it to the dealer's attention and they corrected it. What is your issue? Okay so you felt you were treated badly. If you carried on in there the way you've carried on in here I can understand why.

if you can tell me how a worn out a/c compressor bearing and a valve cover gasket replacement are related i'll retract all my statements.

He probably doesn't know anything about cars, so thats going to be a no-go.

[Lexucan]

yes keys start cars............but they have to unlock the door FIRST!!!!!

Yes, but unlocking the door with the key is a mechanical operation, there are no electronics involved therefore any problem with the electrical system of the car would be completely seperate from the key. You said the POWER door locks wouldn't work. Using the key to unlock the door manually has nothing to do with the power door locks.

Seems this thread has been beaten to death already but I think a point of clarification needs to be made:

The key for the 2nd generation ES300 has a remote entry button on it which does lock/unlock the doors without the need to insert the key into the lock. So, kingjack133 did have a valid point when he said that the key didn't work after they programmed it.

[kingjack133]

i don t appreciate being called a comical hypocrate

I didn't call you a comical hypocrite, I said your statement was comically hypocritical, which it was. You can't possibly disagree that your asking powerwave (who works for a dealer) to see things from a customer's point of view and to have a fair and balanced opinion when you have been violently unwilling to even entertain the idea that the dealer is not at fault for your issue or even to remotely see anything from a dealer's perspective. That is the textbook definition of hypocrisy.

Hypocrite- a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, esp. one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements.

Theres absolutely no way you can deny that your request of someone else to be fair and balanced when you refuse to be is hypocritical.

yes keys start cars............but they have to unlock the door FIRST!!!!!

Yes, but unlocking the door with the key is a mechanical operation, there are no electronics involved therefore any problem with the electrical system of the car would be completely seperate from the key, which is what we've been saying all along.

You said the POWER door locks wouldn't work. Using the key to unlock the door manually has nothing to do with the power door locks.

so i have nothing more on this topic

thanks for your interest

You had nothing to begin with on this topic because you have absolutely no grounds for your complaint. Something happened to the electrical system of your car while under the dealer's care (supposedly), you brought it to the dealer's attention and they corrected it. What is your issue? Okay so you felt you were treated badly. If you carried on in there the way you've carried on in here I can understand why.

if you can tell me how a worn out a/c compressor bearing and a valve cover gasket replacement are related i'll retract all my statements.

He probably doesn't know anything about cars, so thats going to be a no-go.

your my hero because now i really think that you are smart cause you seem to know and understand so much....say hi to your dad...

and tell him i m proud of you too seriously i ve changed my mind about you two and from now on you are the only ones i ll take seriously

I realize how stupid I am and to think i had a valid thought in me was absurd and....boys....i just want you to know how truly sorry i am to have disaggreed with either of you about anything!....again...sorry...and maybe we can be pals again like the old days........the end

[powerwave]

powerwave (who works for a dealer)

worked for a dealer. dealer work/flat rate is murder on the spine, on the family life, on the pocketbook if you have the least bit of dignity left in you. no, flat rate is the reason the business has its reputation. back to school next month to do something else that pays in dollars and not afterhours equipment availability... that pays for all the overtime hours.