D@mn! ! Am !mpressed

[Jim Nazium]

Made the trip down for Black Sunday (like usual). Decided to take the wife's 400h, had 4 adults in the car and loaded up with luggage. The whole trip down on the east coast on 07/11/22 it rained and rained and rained. Anyhoot I averaged 55mph (some highway traffic, construction zones, and speedtraps and speed limit) and pulled off 27.2 mpg with ambient temperatures at 36F.

The trip back I notched 28.2mpg with an average speed slightly higher at 63 mph... and it was sunny with ambient temperatures at 38F. The vehicle was loaded up to the hilt with Black Sunday deals.

Awesome, is all I have to say.

Cheers,

MadloR

[RX400h]

The funny thing is that there STILL is no direct competition in this vehicle segment. The German car companies were really caught flat-footed when the RX400h was revealed to the world.

[Jim Nazium]

I couldn't agree with you more RX400H.

At first I was a little miffed that the 400h didn't attain more Prius like fuel economy by running a smaller displacement ICE, or an alternative fuel like diesel.

But after owning one for about 10 months I wouldn't change the ICE / Hybrid combo. I like the fact that I can put the "sleeper" on someone, especially all other SUV's you are most likely to encounter. The 400h takes off and like a run away train, it pulls with a constant level of acceleration. No flat spots.

I don't know if it's me, but I find I get better than most fuel economy numbers, even though I drive in above average colder conditions.

One other note, the total round trip was about 700 miles... running 5W30 synthetic mobil 1 oil, using Regular Unleaded fuel and driving 90% of the time with Cruise Control. OH!!! and I had put on the Bridgestone Blizzak winter tires on for the trip (bad weather and snow in my area). The one thing I did do on the drive back was temporarily suspend the cruise control whenever going down a long slope where the descent would actually cause the 400h to gain speed. I believe the cruise control will try to keep the speed at the preset limit and will attempt to "scrub" off the potential increase by either engine braking or perhaps using the regenerative braking system. The onscreen display or the kw meter shows no sign of regenerative energy, so I am not sure just how exactly the cruise control on the 400h works when going down a steep hill.

Cheers,

MadloR

[Jim Clark]

The funny thing is that there STILL is no direct competition in this vehicle segment. The German car companies were really caught flat-footed when the RX400h was revealed to the world.

Can you use the 400h in HOV lanes (driving alone) in CA? We can here in the DC area and demand for them is strong. Good low mileage used ones hold their prices really well, too well actually, which is why we bought new. Good used ones will not be on the lot for more than a week.

The only competition is the Toyota Highlander. We considered the Highlander but it didn't have the driver memory functions and a loaded Highlander Limited is only $3-4k less than the 400h.

Since we started considering an RX, I began to notice how many RX's of all types there are in this area. They outnumber BMW's and MB's BIG time.

We've only had it a little over a week and love it so far. It's not as powerful and doesn't handle as well as the Audi S6 it replaced but the comfort and ride are way better. We'll probably keep this car a long time.

[SOMEONE ELSE'S GOT MY NAME]

Can you use the 400h in HOV lanes (driving alone) in CA? We can here in the DC area and demand for them is strong. Good low mileage used ones hold their prices really well, too well actually, which is why we bought new. Good used ones will not be on the lot for more than a week.

SNIP

Are you kidding? Feds have a minimum requirement in the 40's per gallon. So, NO, in CA ... (and what I thought was ALL states & Fed jurisdictions) you can't ride solo in the HOV lanes unless you have the stickers, which you can't get unless your car qualifies. Basically, that's the Prius, the Civic, and the (no longer in production) Insight. Yep, states CAN set their own reg's ... but they loose matching Fed funds if they don't abide by Fed rules (remember the 70's ?? and the 55mph speed limit? ... that's why all states went along with it) . I can't imagine any state or Fed jurisdiction legislators willing to give up those 10's of millions in matching funds for road creation, maintenance, & developement. Your avatar says N. VA but you're speeking of driving in DC . . . so which area are you saying permits HOV stickers for a car (400h) that averages (I think the new EPA is) what ... maybe 27mpg average between HWY and City?

[RX400h]

But after owning one for about 10 months I wouldn't change the ICE / Hybrid combo. I like the fact that I can put the "sleeper" on someone, especially all other SUV's you are most likely to encounter. The 400h takes off and like a run away train, it pulls with a constant level of acceleration. No flat spots.

THAT'S ME as well, Jim! I've had so many Ford Explorers or BMW X5s try to "show me who's speed-superior" by knowingly using the left lane even though they need to be in the right lane at the next light. Boy, are they a bit surprised when the light turns green. Maybe that's why we average "only" 24.5 MPG!

Jim C,

As S.E.G.M.N. has mentioned, Californians can't use their RX400s driving solo in commuter lanes. However, we did qualify for a nice tax break; I believe my "break" was $2000

Dave

[Jim Clark]

Can you use the 400h in HOV lanes (driving alone) in CA? We can here in the DC area and demand for them is strong. Good low mileage used ones hold their prices really well, too well actually, which is why we bought new. Good used ones will not be on the lot for more than a week.

SNIP

Are you kidding? Feds have a minimum requirement in the 40's per gallon. So, NO, in CA ... (and what I thought was ALL states & Fed jurisdictions) you can't ride solo in the HOV lanes unless you have the stickers, which you can't get unless your car qualifies. Basically, that's the Prius, the Civic, and the (no longer in production) Insight. Yep, states CAN set their own reg's ... but they loose matching Fed funds if they don't abide by Fed rules (remember the 70's ?? and the 55mph speed limit? ... that's why all states went along with it) . I can't imaging any state or Fed jurisdiction legislators willing to give up those 10's of millions in matching funds for road creation, maintenance, & developement. Your avatar says N. VA but you're speeking of driving in DC . . . so which area are you saying permits HOV stickers for a car (400h) that averages (I think the new EPA is) what ... maybe 27mpg average between HWY and City?

I would seriously doubt VA would give up fed funds but they DO allow most hybrids (including the 400h) in the HOV lanes with solo drivers. Are you sure there's a mileage requirement? I thought it was an emissions requirement, that the vehicles must be certified as Super Ultra Low Emission Vehicles (SULEV's). I believe the HOV lanes are regulated by the states, even if it's an interstate highway. I suppose it's possible VA "may" have been granted some sort of waiver due to our difficult traffic conditions and the fact that many congresscritters live in VA.

[stevil]

It's state law that governs this in VA as signed by the Governer: http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=30&sid=1093796

And unless you purchased your hybrid (or alternative fuel vehicle) prior to July 2006 you can't drive on northbound HOV lanes (I-95 and I-395).

Agree on the comments of the abundance of RXs in the area! I bought my wife a 400H this summer in advance of our new baby, and just traded in 2 BMW M3's on a brand new 2007 (manager's demo) GS 450h. Loving them both and can't wait to get my plates on the GS so I can move equally slowly in the left lane as the right... with the abundance of traffic there really doesn't seem to be any difference! :) But am enjoying steadily driving at 25mph without the ICE and polluting less...

[RX400h]

Congratulations, stevil! If I recall correctly, those M3s required a gas-guzzler tax when they were new. Welcome to the green side.

[Jim Nazium]

It slays me how so many luxury car manufactures have missed the boat. For crying out loud, Toyota is soon to launch there THIRD iteration of the Prius. Lexus has expanded the Hybrid concept throughout there luxury line, BUT more importantly have or are going to soon release 2nd generations of there Hybrid technology in the Luxury / Sport / SUV line.

Hello?!?!?!?!?! M-B, BMW, ACURA, VOLVO... wake up! I guess it is Rocket Science afterall. :whistles:

[Jim Clark]

It slays me how so many luxury car manufactures have missed the boat. For crying out loud, Toyota is soon to launch there THIRD iteration of the Prius. Lexus has expanded the Hybrid concept throughout there luxury line, BUT more importantly have or are going to soon release 2nd generations of there Hybrid technology in the Luxury / Sport / SUV line.

Hello?!?!?!?!?! M-B, BMW, ACURA, VOLVO... wake up! I guess it is Rocket Science afterall. :whistles:

Toyota/Lexus is way ahead of the competition with 6 current offerings. Honda only has the Civic, they dropped the Insight and Accord. Mazda (Ford) has the Tribute. Ford has the Escape and Mercury Mariner. Nissan has the Altima.

Toyota seems way ahead on the technology curve. It also appears their technology is standing the test of time. They've had many hybrids on the road since the 2004 model year (sometime in 2003, that's 4+ years) and I haven't heard of any significant problems with the system. I see tons of Prius's on the road in this area and a lot of RX buyers are opting for the 400h, used ones don't last on the lot for more than a week and they hold their value so well we opted for a new one.

The service manager at a huge local Porsche/Audi dealership drives a Prius, I believe it's primarily so he can use the HOV lanes.

It appears the Germans don't even have viable concept vehicles yet.

[RX400h]

Daimler-Benz does have some impressive diesels, but up until recently could not get them certified for use in CA. Still, their SUVs that need the technology most critically, have no diesel or hybrid option. I see very few new MB SUVs on the road, no doubt because of both poor fuel mileage and very spotty reliability.

[Jim Clark]

Daimler-Benz does have some impressive diesels, but up until recently could not get them certified for use in CA. Still, their SUVs that need the technology most critically, have no diesel or hybrid option. I see very few new MB SUVs on the road, no doubt because of both poor fuel mileage and very spotty reliability.

The MB diesels are impressive, you can't tell you're driving a diesel. Audi also has excellent diesels (TDI's), they're just beginning to bring them to the US, they're the engine of choice in Europe. Their race cars using the TDI engines win ALL the endurance races like LeMans and Daytona.

A good buddy has a AMG ML, it's an impressive vehicle with 500hp, obviously one doesn't care about gas mileage with that beast.

As stated, in our area, RX's are everywhere, they outnumber BMW's and MB's (combined) by a large margin. The Germans have gotten their butts kicked by Lexus in nearly every category. Our Audi S6 (an impressive wagon with tons of power and great handling) was traded on the 400h. The 400h doesn't have the power or handling of the S6 (which can only be used on a track unless you want jail time) but it's way more comfy.

[NeoN]

Ok, well I would like to respond to this post, although i'm still on my first tank of gas in my RX400h...

I mainly drive the car to the train station, its about a 3.3 mile trip each way. 35 mph max, stop and go traffic, cold car, etc. I leave my car in the garage at night if that helps at all. My gas mileage has only been 18-19mpg for this trip so I was a bit worried if those figures would improve or not. Does anyone think that after break-in my mpg figures will improve? anything I can do to improve my mpg on my own? I've filled my michilens to 37 psi all around and try and drive as gently as possible. However, I took a trip down the highway at 75 mph and got 37mpg for a 10 mile stretch of highway, I was impressed!!

over and out,

-Brett

[alotlikehomer]

Ok, well I would like to respond to this post, although i'm still on my first tank of gas in my RX400h...

I mainly drive the car to the train station, its about a 3.3 mile trip each way. 35 mph max, stop and go traffic, cold car, etc. I leave my car in the garage at night if that helps at all. My gas mileage has only been 18-19mpg for this trip so I was a bit worried if those figures would improve or not. Does anyone think that after break-in my mpg figures will improve? anything I can do to improve my mpg on my own? I've filled my michilens to 37 psi all around and try and drive as gently as possible. However, I took a trip down the highway at 75 mph and got 37mpg for a 10 mile stretch of highway, I was impressed!!

over and out,

-Brett

What you need is a vehicle that can operate in EV mode, with no gas engine at all. The Lexus is going to run the gas engine for most of your trip just to warm up the exhaust system. The hybrid's efficiency is not utilized in 3 mile trips.

[RX400h]

From what I hear, gas mileage improves with warmer weather, although theoretically, power to the wheels should improve with colder temps. gas mileage does creep up over time, although one of the problems you have is the short distance. The oil is not getting up to normal operating temps within that distance. Ideally, you'd have an all-electric vehicle, but they are not quite ready for prime time, from what I gather.

Regardless, as long as you are driving this distance, you might want to change the oil a bit more often that what is stated in the manual - perhaps, every 2000-3000 miles.

[kevin_450h]

Made the trip down for Black Sunday (like usual). Decided to take the wife's 400h, had 4 adults in the car and loaded up with luggage. The whole trip down on the east coast on 07/11/22 it rained and rained and rained. Anyhoot I averaged 55mph (some highway traffic, construction zones, and speedtraps and speed limit) and pulled off 27.2 mpg with ambient temperatures at 36F.

The trip back I notched 28.2mpg with an average speed slightly higher at 63 mph... and it was sunny with ambient temperatures at 38F. The vehicle was loaded up to the hilt with Black Sunday deals.

Awesome, is all I have to say.

Cheers,

MadloR

Hi there. Hate to burst your bubble, but the main reason for that MPG was the rain and the fact you had to drive so much slower than usual. On your next long drive, try using cruise control and staying at 60-65 (whatever the legal limit is in your state) and you will note a big boost in efficiency. I have the 450h hybrid sedan and noticed the same thing while experimenting. There's a hidden gem of wisdom in all of this that I also discovered after putting solar on my roof- you can get at least half the benefits of a proactive "green" effort by simply conserving.

For example, switching a house to all CFL and LED lighting will be the equivalent of adding a small solar PV system to your roof. Likewise, driving 55mph on the freeway in an SUV will get you 30% better mileage without buying a hybrid Escalade! Sure, I'd prefer they'd buy hybrids, but it's a start.

ANd, lets' face it, whether it's 25 or 28mpg, we are talking about terribly inefficient vehicles, even the hybrids. This would be greatly mitigated if only Toyota would come out with the plug-ins already. Then you get 50-100mpg and still get to drive your SUV.

BOL to you.

[Jim Clark]

The 400h will never average 37 mpg. Most owners report 25 mpg average. That's pretty good for a mid-size SUV (darn good for a large mid-size at that).

[RX400h]

ANd, lets' face it, whether it's 25 or 28mpg, we are talking about terribly inefficient vehicles, even the hybrids. This would be greatly mitigated if only Toyota would come out with the plug-ins already. Then you get 50-100mpg and still get to drive your SUV.

BOL to you.

Yes, but you'd also have to replace batteries far more frequently than we will with our batteries. Plug-in technology seems like an easy, slam-dunk but it is far from that, otherwise, Toyota would've had those types of cars on the road many years ago.

[Jim Clark]

All-electric, plug-in vehicles are not "greener" than our hybrids. Most electricity is created from carbon emitting power plants, most of those are coal burning. So if you think that plug-in electric vehicle has zero emissions, think again.

[NeoN]

All-electric, plug-in vehicles are not "greener" than our hybrids. Most electricity is created from carbon emitting power plants, most of those are coal burning. So if you think that plug-in electric vehicle has zero emissions, think again.

heh, I actually got 14 mpg today on my morning commute 3.5miles @ 28 degrees outside lol, with a cold engine its impossible to get good MPG!! I wish this car had a function you could press on the dash for electric only power or at least make the electric motor run 70%/ 30% Gas engine. I would love if someone came up with a "chip" or add-on switch so we could accomplish these feats, trade-off power for more MPG, I would pay $$$

[Jim Clark]

I think the main reason the gas engine is on so much during warm-up is just that, it's warming up so it can provide heat to the cabin. I expect it will run somewhat less in the summer. With a 3.5 mile commute, even if you only get 14 MPG, over the course of a year it ain't squat.

If they had a "switch" which allowed us to govern the use of the electric hybrid drive, most people would abuse it by trying to push MPG to unrealistic levels and would damage the hybrid/electric drive system.

We're driving a 4000 lb SUV with a darn good amount of power. An average of 25+ MPG (for most people) is a huge improvement over any of the competition. AND our emission levels are almost nothing.

[NeoN]

I think the main reason the gas engine is on so much during warm-up is just that, it's warming up so it can provide heat to the cabin. I expect it will run somewhat less in the summer. With a 3.5 mile commute, even if you only get 14 MPG, over the course of a year it ain't squat.

If they had a "switch" which allowed us to govern the use of the electric hybrid drive, most people would abuse it by trying to push MPG to unrealistic levels and would damage the hybrid/electric drive system.

We're driving a 4000 lb SUV with a darn good amount of power. An average of 25+ MPG (for most people) is a huge improvement over any of the competition. AND our emission levels are almost nothing.

I actually tried this "pulse" technique last night and got 17 mpg on the way home from the train station, impressive it works, I'm going to try this more often in the morning and we'll see what works. I'm still on my first tank of gas by the way

[RX400h]

I think the main reason the gas engine is on so much during warm-up is just that, it's warming up so it can provide heat to the cabin. I expect it will run somewhat less in the summer. With a 3.5 mile commute, even if you only get 14 MPG, over the course of a year it ain't squat.

The oil needs to be warm enough so that a quickly-started engine that "sees" load can be lubricated very quickly. Cold oil doesn't circulate nearly as well as warm/hot oil.

If they had a "switch" which allowed us to govern the use of the electric hybrid drive, most people would abuse it by trying to push MPG to unrealistic levels and would damage the hybrid/electric drive system.

I agree, but primarily, the life of the batteries would be severely reduced to a point where warranty repairs would certainly diminish the stellar reputation that Lexus now enjoys.

We're driving a 4000 lb SUV with a darn good amount of power. An average of 25+ MPG (for most people) is a huge improvement over any of the competition. AND our emission levels are almost nothing.

Good point!