How Does Rx400h Perform On Moderate And Slippery Trails?

[olivetree]

We plan to buy all-wheel-drive RX400h for environmental reasons. But first, we would like to know its performance on moderate and slippery trails as we now live in Swedish countryside. We do not mean serious off-road safari condition. What we want to know is if RX400h can handle snowy and icy gravel and dirt road. If the car slips into the ditch in the winter, can it retrieve safely to the main road? Or does RX400h only suit the smooth asphalt city roads?

If RX400h cannot cope with the countryside roads, shall we buy all-wheel-drive RX350 instead?

Thanks in advance for your input.

[Rx330driver]

a few things to point out. Some people here will tell you the AWD system in the RX400h and the RX350 are not true AWD systems, that are inferior to other systems from competitors. However, they are adequate enough through what you have described. An RX350 would be a better choice, but dirt and gravel and snow arent that bad and im sure the hybrid can tackle that.

You should be fine. Might want to switch to different tires that come with the car since they are more oriented towards performance-ish than traction. I believe the 400h also comes with VDIM unlike the non hybrid RX which you help you in an event of a slip. It iwll be fine.

[RX400h]

http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...showtopic=36993

[wwest]

We plan to buy all-wheel-drive RX400h for environmental reasons. But first, we would like to know its performance on moderate and slippery trails as we now live in Swedish countryside. We do not mean serious off-road safari condition. What we want to know is if RX400h can handle snowy and icy gravel and dirt road. If the car slips into the ditch in the winter, can it retrieve safely to the main road? Or does RX400h only suit the smooth asphalt city roads?

If RX400h cannot cope with the countryside roads, shall we buy all-wheel-drive RX350 instead?

Thanks in advance for your input.

I have very little doubt that the RXh can and will yeild better adverse roadbed performance than the standard RX, even the RX350. But then that's not especially a good benchmark for comparison.

Before I bought an RXh I would want to determine if the US patent recently granted to FMC, Ford Motor Company, is fully licensed and implemented. The patent appears to apply to the Ford Escape and Mariner hybrids. The first patented technique results in a significant reduction in the level of regenerative braking available if the OAT is near or below freezing. The second technique disables ALL regenerative braing the very instant ABS activates during actual brake application.

Both of these, obviously, are designed to reduce the HAZARDS of FWD or front torque biased AWD vehicles in wintertime adverse, slippery, roadbed conditions. Just as you would/should NEVER downshift a FWD vehicle to obtain engine compression braking on a known low traction condition Ford is in the lead (Ford..???) working to alleviate the same potential problem for regenerative braking on hybrids.

And I would recommend the Acura RDX or the BMW X3 instead of the standard RX should you go that direction.

[olivetree]

Thank you all for the input. We really appreciate your help! This forum is really useful.

We feel quite positive about the RX400h's countryside performance. Earlier today we called the car dealer for the first RX400h test drive. But we have to wait for one week because the test car is being repaired, since one of his potential customers run into another car with it last weekend. If we feel good when we try the car, we will start to negotiate with the dealer.

[SOMEONE ELSE'S GOT MY NAME]

As RX400h aptly pointed out, the topic has been beat to death .... and thus, the search tool is a wonderful thing :D

We use ours near Glacier National Park, MT and w/ snow tires your just like down town. What's intriguing is several non 400h folks (some who've never even test driven the 400h at a dealer) are quick to put it down. . . . which ultimately ends up being nothing more than a pee'n contest so to speak. Oh well.

[wwest]

As RX400h aptly pointed out, the topic has been beat to death .... and thus, the search tool is a wonderful thing :D

We use ours near Glacier National Park, MT and w/ snow tires your just like down town. What's intriguing is several non 400h folks (some who've never even test driven the 400h at a dealer) are quick to put it down. . . . which ultimately ends up being nothing more than a pee'n contest so to speak. Oh well.

"We use ours near Glacier National Park, MT..."

Now there is an ambiguous statement...West side or East side of Glacier?

On the east side is Browning, Cut Bank, etc, some of the coldest areas in the continental US and often with snow so deep a Hummer wouldn't get through. On the other hand, the west side, basically the Bitterroot valley, is often referred to as the Banana Belt of MT.

Ca & MT....Hmmmmm..

And just where do you winter...???

Having myself lived in MT, Lewistown (winter {54 below 0} and summer) with a sister living in Cut Bank, I wouldn't dare take my '01 AWD RX300 into the state at any time of the year absent the ability to install chains on the rear tires (requires modification) and then the front if needed. I have a vivid memory of trout fishing one July day just outside of Lewistown and it began to snow. By the time I decided to take the snow as a serious matter I almost couldn't get back into town.

[SOMEONE ELSE'S GOT MY NAME]

"We use ours near Glacier National Park, MT..."

Now there is an ambiguous statement...West side or East side of Glacier?

On the east side is Browning, Cut Bank, etc, some of the coldest areas in the continental US and often with snow so deep a Hummer wouldn't get through. On the other hand, the west side, basically the Bitterroot valley, is often referred to as the Banana Belt of MT.

Ca & MT....Hmmmmm..

And just where do you winter...???

Having myself lived in MT, Lewistown (winter {54 below 0} and summer) with a sister living in Cut Bank, I wouldn't dare take my '01 AWD RX300 into the state at any time of the year absent the ability to install chains on the rear tires (requires modification) and then the front if needed. I have a vivid memory of trout fishing one July day just outside of Lewistown and it began to snow. By the time I decided to take the snow as a serious matter I almost couldn't get back into town.

Usually CA . . . but we keep the 400h up there most of the time, and I think it was 1997 that the Flathead Valley (yes, often called the bananna belt ... but does it really matter if it's -22 degrees in the valley, or at the top of Big Mountain Ski resort / Whitefish? :D ) had their deep snow record: 10+ feet of snow in the low lands ... point being ... deep snow and cold, the 400h has been just as reliable as either of the SUV's we unloaded (4x4 Explorer and our Range Rover). Anywho, we've done 3 winters (all the way thru) there since the 90's and probably 4 or 5 partial.

Didn't mean to sound ambigous refering to Glacier ... it's just many folks have at least heard of Glacier. But if you say, Kalispell? ... or Lake Blain? You hear folks say, "where?". Yes, no one in their right mind would try the Glacier pass in Janury (even if it were open). Oh, and thanks for the 3rd degree . . . did I pass? :D

[wwest]

"We use ours near Glacier National Park, MT..."

Now there is an ambiguous statement...West side or East side of Glacier?

On the east side is Browning, Cut Bank, etc, some of the coldest areas in the continental US and often with snow so deep a Hummer wouldn't get through. On the other hand, the west side, basically the Bitterroot valley, is often referred to as the Banana Belt of MT.

Ca & MT....Hmmmmm..

And just where do you winter...???

Having myself lived in MT, Lewistown (winter {54 below 0} and summer) with a sister living in Cut Bank, I wouldn't dare take my '01 AWD RX300 into the state at any time of the year absent the ability to install chains on the rear tires (requires modification) and then the front if needed. I have a vivid memory of trout fishing one July day just outside of Lewistown and it began to snow. By the time I decided to take the snow as a serious matter I almost couldn't get back into town.

Usually CA . . . but we keep the 400h up there most of the time, and I think it was 1997 that the Flathead Valley (yes, often called the bananna belt ... but does it really matter if it's -22 degrees in the valley, or at the top of Big Mountain Ski resort / Whitefish? :D ) had their deep snow record: 10+ feet of snow in the low lands ... point being ... deep snow and cold, the 400h has been just as reliable as either of the SUV's we unloaded (4x4 Explorer and our Range Rover). Anywho, we've done 3 winters (all the way thru) there since the 90's and probably 4 or 5 partial.

Didn't mean to sound ambigous refering to Glacier ... it's just many folks have at least heard of Glacier. But if you say, Kalispell? ... or Lake Blain? You hear folks say, "where?". Yes, no one in their right mind would try the Glacier pass in Janury (even if it were open). Oh, and thanks for the 3rd degree . . . did I pass? :D

First. I wasn't talking about Glacier "pass" (do you mean Going to the Sun Hwy?? ) just the more severe wintertime roadbed conditions east of Glacier vs west. Second, I've never considered deep snow, especially the COLD MT snow, except for getting high centered, to be enough of a challenge even for a decent RWD vehicle. It was always the packed down stuff or ice, or an ice under layment that caused, causes, me the greatest grief.

It's now been many years since I bought winter tires. I found that if the surface is "loose" and I don't sink through to the slippery stuff my summer tires do just as well as any winter specialty tires, absent studs. If the roadbed is icy or I'm sinking through to the slippery stuff it's time to put the tire chains on the rear unconditionally anyway.

But were I in your shoes I would install wheel spacers, at least at the rear, so tire chains can be untilized safely rather than putting your life at risk with front tire chains only as is "required" by the RXes too tight rear tire/suspension clearance.

And yes, you passed the "test".

What test...??

Well, maybe not.

"three winters (all the way thru) there since the 90's and probably 4 or 5 partial"

When did you say you "imported" the RX400h into MT..??

Our 92 Jeep Cherokee Limited has been over on a cattle & wheat ranch, Everson, north of Denton since ~2001, and still giving stellar all year round performance, as likely would your old Ford Explorer.

Looks as if "you" passed the test but maybe your RXh hasn't....yet.

[SOMEONE ELSE'S GOT MY NAME]

First. I wasn't talking about Glacier "pass" (do you mean Going to the Sun Hwy?? ) just the more severe wintertime roadbed conditions east of Glacier vs west. Second, I've never considered deep snow, especially the COLD MT snow, except for getting high centered, to be enough of a challenge even for a decent RWD vehicle. It was always the packed down stuff or ice, or an ice under layment that caused, causes, me the greatest grief.

It's now been many years since I bought winter tires. I found that if the surface is "loose" and I don't sink through to the slippery stuff my summer tires do just as well as any winter specialty tires, absent studs. If the roadbed is icy or I'm sinking through to the slippery stuff it's time to put the tire chains on the rear unconditionally anyway.

But were I in your shoes I would install wheel spacers, at least at the rear, so tire chains can be untilized safely rather than putting your life at risk with front tire chains only as is "required" by the RXes too tight rear tire/suspension clearance.

And yes, you passed the "test".

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Looks as if "you" passed the test but maybe your RXh hasn't....yet.

Never been a fan of wheel spacers. As you know, MT finds Studs to be legal, so once December 1 hits (if we're up there), we just load up the studded set, take 'em down to big 'O' and have them put the studded set on 'till the end of April. Your point is well taken as far as ALL our winters not being in MT in the 400h. We HAVE only done one whole winter there w/ the 400h. The other 2 were in the Ford Exploader. The full winter we did there wasn't the toughest for the 400h . . . rather the MILD one was. That affords the melt-off to re-freez over night. Then, you have that black ice. But with good momentum, even that's ok. Black ice and momentum and then the eventual uphill curves ... THAT can do you in :D

[wwest]

First. I wasn't talking about Glacier "pass" (do you mean Going to the Sun Hwy?? ) just the more severe wintertime roadbed conditions east of Glacier vs west. Second, I've never considered deep snow, especially the COLD MT snow, except for getting high centered, to be enough of a challenge even for a decent RWD vehicle. It was always the packed down stuff or ice, or an ice under layment that caused, causes, me the greatest grief.

It's now been many years since I bought winter tires. I found that if the surface is "loose" and I don't sink through to the slippery stuff my summer tires do just as well as any winter specialty tires, absent studs. If the roadbed is icy or I'm sinking through to the slippery stuff it's time to put the tire chains on the rear unconditionally anyway.

But were I in your shoes I would install wheel spacers, at least at the rear, so tire chains can be untilized safely rather than putting your life at risk with front tire chains only as is "required" by the RXes too tight rear tire/suspension clearance.

And yes, you passed the "test".

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Looks as if "you" passed the test but maybe your RXh hasn't....yet.

Never been a fan of wheel spacers. As you know, MT finds Studs to be legal, so once December 1 hits (if we're up there), we just load up the studded set, take 'em down to big 'O' and have them put the studded set on 'till the end of April. Your point is well taken as far as ALL our winters not being in MT in the 400h. We HAVE only done one whole winter there w/ the 400h. The other 2 were in the Ford Exploader. The full winter we did there wasn't the toughest for the 400h . . . rather the MILD one was. That affords the melt-off to re-freez over night. Then, you have that black ice. But with good momentum, even that's ok. Black ice and momentum and then the eventual uphill curves ... THAT can do you in :D

And I'm ABSOLUTELY not a fan of tire studs because of what they do to roadbeds not covered with ice or snow.

IMMHO they should either be totally BANNED or a surcharge applied based on the number of days you drive with them for no need.

[SOMEONE ELSE'S GOT MY NAME]

And I'm ABSOLUTELY not a fan of tire studs because of what they do to roadbeds not covered with ice or snow.

IMMHO they should either be totally BANNED or a surcharge applied based on the number of days you drive with them for no need.

I hear you! Our roads look horrible! You know their theory is that w/ so many fewer cars than down in So. Cal. or other more heavily traffic'ed states, there's less damage from the studs. Oh right ... suuurrre. I don't buy it. There are less roads up there, too! What really chaps my hide is the lazies that leave their studs on all year, or until they get a mear fix-it ticket . . . and some make it all year w/o ever getting a ticket. That being said, if they ARE going to let them be legal, and tearing up the roads, I might as to as well do as the Romans do ... when in Rome.

[rlpiv]

I hope that this information isn't too late for you .... but please see my post of April 3, 2007, in this forum, about my experience with .... RX400h IMPOTENT AWD. My replacement RX350 is awsome as a true AWD.

Note that most of the responses to me included changing to snowtires, one responder even claimed CHAINS. Note also that the "h" literature firmly discourages "off-road" use of the "h", but not does not have the same disclaimer for the RX gas-version.

Good luck .......... rlpiv