02-06 Transmission hesitation problems

drifter · September 11, 2004

I check back every few months to see how the tranny thread is going and to see if Lexus actually has a fix. Still a bunch of BS. My first and likely last Lexus because of the BS they're handing out. I wish someone could actually find out the whole inside truth on what's wrong with the engine/tranny and broadcast it nationwide. Jerks!

Walterbn · September 18, 2004

I have an '04 RX330 that has serious trans issues and the e-throttle problems all of you have described. There are two sets of problems according to my local Lexus service people. The throttle is not causing the main trans issues.

What will be interesting is if Lexus comes out with a new trans (and/or e-throttle program) in the '05s and then has the gall to bill it as the new and improved version.....when for months they have been telling all of us that there is no problem with ours.

johnheg · September 20, 2004

I guess I'll add my 2 cents worth. I bought a new ES330 in January of this year and definitely have the hesitation problem described again and again since at least 2002. I have tried the no overdrive and have tried manually shifting when I think I might need to accellerate quickly. I agree with earlier posts that say the problem does not go away when shifting out of D and I have experienced it in 3 as well. My biggest problem and the reason I think it is a safety problem is that here in Houston we often have to merge across a freeway to get from an on ramp to an exit. This may sound strange but it's just the way the highways are constructed in several places. Since I have to merge on to the right and lane and end up in the left hand lane of a 4 or 5 lane highway in a short distance, I need to go from very slow to very fast (this is the space city, after all) in a short distance. The hesitation drives me crazy when I am trying to merge in to a fast moving stream of traffic from a slower lane.

Anyway, I have complained to my dealer and they said the standard: "nothing wrong with it". I will call the 800 number and complain and may also do the consumer complaint. Thanks for the previous info. I guess I should have researched here before I bought a Lexus!

Poppi · September 24, 2004

It is ridiculous that Lexus beginning with the 1999 RX300 and on through the present ES models have the hesitating transmission problems. This is the pits, and why they they are so adamant on cramming this problem down our throats after we have paid premium prices for Lexus vehicles.

We have owned three different Toyota cars; Camry, and two different year model Avalon's and never had even one hiccup as far as hitting the accelerator and getting immediate response like a car is supposed to have. Where is Lexus design engineers minds and what do they use for a brain?

Don't they realize that cars and trucks have been built by the millions that do not have this problem.

Why does Lexus not hear us and do a genuine fix on them? Anybody know?

I purchased the 99 RX300 and 2003 ES300 from one of the largest and most reputable Lexus dealers in the U.S. The RX300 just has a hesitating problem. The ES has a hesitating problem plus the jerkiness of the transmission when changing gears. Those transmissions in the Camry and the Avalon's were seamless and smooth when changing gears so much they couldn't be felt. But not this ES300. It lets you feel every gear change. We like everything else about the car except for this dadblasted transmission. Do you think for one minute that the reputable Lexus dealer told us about he malfunctioning transmission in that ES? Heck no! Oh I know some say Lexus claims it is not the transmission, that it is the ECM or the electronic throttle body but that's malarkey, hogwash. It may be the ECM or electronic throttle body, but it's the transmission jerking and hesitating that is fouled up from whatever cause for it doing so.

I have read that some have had the ECM reprogrammed and it is no better and in some cases worse than before reprogramming. Now that's some kind of fix isn't it?

I tell you all, we are going to have to unite and demand while these vehicles are still in warranty to get this transmission problem resolved.

Lexus is doing the stall thing exactly like Mazda did with their transmission problem a few years back. Mazda 626's were warranted to 50,000 miles. If the transmissions held up until the warranty expired then it cratered after the warranty expired, and I mean if it had one mile over the warranty, Mazda would not replace the transmission.

Mazda knew there was a problem with the transmissions and did not issue a recall to the owners informing them of the problem and then after the warranty expired the things cratered and it was the owners responsibility to replace the transmission at a cost $2,000.00. Mazda knew it and had issued a Techincal Service Bulletin about the problem and Lexus is doing the very same thing by not correcting the problem. Our daughter's Mazada 626 transmission did crater at 52,000 and after me going round and round and haggling with Mazda Corportation did Mazda agree to fix it with an out of pocket for me paying $635.00 of the cost. I had no other choice at the time as the car itself was still a good car and she couldn't afford another car at that time as it would have cost more that the transmission out of pocket besides.

I do know we will not be purchasing another Lexus product unless Lexus cleans up their act. They have been known for quality, but that's out the window as far as we're concerned. There's no way I would consider purchasing another Lexus product at this time and there is no way I would purchase another vehicle of any kind from Sewell Lexus in Dallas, Texas. I had purchased three other vehicles from Sewell and always liked doing business with them. However, because they did not tell us about the jerky hesitating transmission problem, I will NEVER go in their store again for any brand of car.

And that's right, I am ticked off at Lexus Corp. and Sewell Lexus.

Poppi

johnheg · October 1, 2004

I went to my dealer - Northside Lexus of Houston - earlier in the week and had my 15k service done. I complained again about the transmission and this is what the service rep said:

I will log your complaint and we will test drive it. It will probably be within specifications. The hesitation has to do with the low emissions system. In order to keep the emissions low, the ECM hesitates to transmit to the fuel system when you punch the accelerator "to make sure you are really serious about punching it" and when it realizes you are, it transmits it. He also said that there was a 'fix' for the 2002 model (he seemed to think the problem started when the current transmission design was introduced in 2002) which resulted from complaints by owners of the 2002 ES. He suggested I keep complaining about it and, when there were enough complaints, Lexus/Toyota factory would do something about it. Until there is a fix issued by the factory, there is nothing the Lexus service departments can do. He said that Lexus really does log the service requests and uses them to determine when there is a problem that needs the factory to make a modification.

The explaination about the emissions system just doesn't make any sense. I have lived in California and many other states that test emissions and they all test at idle and a specific speed. There is no way a hesitation would help the emissions test, as far as I can tell. The tie between the low emissions design for the US market and the lack there of for the Canadian market has been noted before so there may be some truth in the link. It just doesn't make sense to me. I will continue to complain. I was surprised to find out that there are only 3 or 4 complaints logged with the NHTSA. I thought there would be more. I suppose I will log a complaint there as well.

I got the factory service manual because I thought it might give me some good information on the programming of the ECM but I should have known better. Has anyone played around with the OBDII scan tool?

Regards, John Heg

timothy · October 3, 2004

new to the site. own 04 es 330, some hesitation problems, been using 93 oct. mobil gas seems to help the problem. about 7000 miles on car, car and dealer seem to be tip top. meade lexus utica/shelby twp. mich learning a lot from the site thanks

tim

Poppi · October 4, 2004

I went to my dealer - Northside Lexus of Houston - earlier in the week and had my 15k service done. I complained again about the transmission and this is what the service rep said:
I will log your complaint and we will test drive it. It will probably be within specifications. The hesitation has to do with the low emissions system. In order to keep the emissions low, the ECM hesitates to transmit to the fuel system when you punch the accelerator "to make sure you are really serious about punching it" and when it realizes you are, it transmits it. He also said that there was a 'fix' for the 2002 model (he seemed to think the problem started when the current transmission design was introduced in 2002) which resulted from complaints by owners of the 2002 ES. He suggested I keep complaining about it and, when there were enough complaints, Lexus/Toyota factory would do something about it. Until there is a fix issued by the factory, there is nothing the Lexus service departments can do. He said that Lexus really does log the service requests and uses them to determine when there is a problem that needs the factory to make a modification.

Regards, John Heg

←

johnheg,

You need to either go back to the same Lexus dealer's service department or a different dealer and tell them there is actually a 'fix' for the hesitating transmission.

I emailed Lexus Corporation and they answered me and told me there was a 'fix' by reprogramming the ECM. I understand it was first allowed to be done in Canada and then approved in the U.S. Your dealership knows there is a 'fix' and are giving you a 'run around'. I am going to schedule an appointment to drive my wife's 2003 ES300 to the dealer and have the ECM reprogrammed.

I have also read and you have probably as well that sometimes the reprogramming makes it worse. I do not know. I live a two hours drive from my Lexus dealership.

Poppi

Kilgore, Tx

steviej · October 4, 2004

johnheg,
You need to either go back to the same Lexus dealer's service department or a different dealer and tell them there is actually a 'fix' for the hesitating transmission.

I emailed Lexus Corporation and they answered me and told me there was a 'fix' by reprogramming the ECM. I understand it was first allowed to be done in Canada and then approved in the U.S. Your dealership knows there is a 'fix' and are giving you a 'run around'. I am going to schedule an appointment to drive my wife's 2003 ES300 to the dealer and have the ECM reprogrammed.

I have also read and you have probably as well that sometimes the reprogramming makes it worse. I do not know. I live a two hours drive from my Lexus dealership.

Poppi

Kilgore, Tx

←

If you speak of "the fix" that came out in Aug 2003 (TC004-03), this fix is NOT a fix for the hesitation. It is a flash rewrite of the ECM to appease the masses for the multiple tranny issues and the and the only think it achieved was removing the slight joggle that could be felt when the tranny hunted for 5th at about 40mph.

this fix is also perminent and you are asked to sign a form stating you are aware of this. This means if you don't like the fix you are crap out of luck. Your old ECU program cannot be re-flashed over the fix.

Poppi, after you get "the fix", post back after the tranny has had enough time to relearn your driving habits. Let us know if the hesitation is still there. I will bet it is.

My service manager was so unhappy with "the fix", he would allow me to get it. I have such a good relationship with the dealer, he said I would be a much bigger PIA after the fix cause I definateley wouldn't like it.

Also, all ES's made after 8/03 supposedly have the fix programmed into the tranny already. If any late 2003, 2004 or 2005 ES owner has a hesitiation........there's your proof, the fix didn't cure the hesitation.

steviej

jragosta · October 5, 2004

I had my arbitration hearing today.

To start, they asked if I wanted to negotiate with Lexus to solve the problem. I agreed and they left the room. All Lexus wanted to do was let me trade my car in on a different model and pay the difference. That's not much of a resolution - since I can do that any time I want. I declined.

After all the preliminaries, I started with a description of the problem and documenting evidence (including NHTSA reports were 50% of all ES problems were related to this problem, reports from this board, reports from edmunds.com, and a letter from Lexus admitting that there was a transmission problem).

Lexus got to respond. They stated that there was no problem and it was simply a matter of my driving style. They argued that the car was within specs.

I then asked them what the specification on transmission hesistation was. They admitted that there is no spec on this parameter. I asked how they determined that my car was within design parameters if there's no spec. They said that they compare it to other cars of the same year and make. I then said "so if every ES has the same problem, you will then say that mine is normal?". She refused to answer the question. :chairshot:

One of the arbitrators asked if there was any record of accidents caused by this problem. I wasn't aware of any, nor was Lexus.

We then did the test drive. The car hesitated right on cue. No question about that.

After coming back into the room, we each gave our closing statement. Lexus repeated that it was a 'shifting style' problem and not a real problem. I repeated that by Lexus definition, if 100% of the cars had their wheels fall of, it would not be considered a problem. In reality, the hundreds of complaints as well as the results of the test drive show that it was a real problem.

I'll know within 10 days. If I don't win this, then I'd say that there's little chance of ever winning an arbitration hearing. The evidence was pretty clear.

I'll let everyone know how it turns out. :cheers:

amf1932 · October 5, 2004

Good luck.......I'm eagerly awaiting your next post and hope it'll be a positive one. :cheers:

torca123 · October 9, 2004

I thought that because Canadian ES330s are only ULEV compliant and not ULEVII as in the US that the hesitation issue doesn't really occur

jragosta · October 14, 2004

Got my response today on arbitration. The arbitrators unanimously decided that I had not proved that the transmission problem significantly impaired the usefulness or safety of the car.

Given that the Lexus person admitted that they didn't have any specifications and that their 'the car meets design criteria' REALLY meant that 'all of the ES cars do that', I don't think the hearing could have gone any better.

I guess they were swayed by the fact that there have been no accidents reported.

I don't have the time to get a lawyer, but if anyone is starting a class action, I'll join in.

Brenda · October 16, 2004

Hi,

My Name in Brenda a year and half ago I leased a 2003, ES 300. I experienced thr transmission hesitation problem. I received a letter from Lexus to have the transmission chip changed. I had the chip changed. I still experienced the problem so on 10/15/2004 I took the car back in to Lexus to have some other work performed and also asked that they fix the hisitation problem again. I was told they can't. I wanted out of the lease I even was willing to pay additional money to get out. However it wil cost me an extra $100.00 in a month payment to get out of a car which is clearly dangerous. Please help and advise.

Thank you

Brenda

jragosta · October 16, 2004

Hi,
My Name in Brenda a year and half ago I leased a 2003, ES 300. I experienced thr transmission hesitation problem. I received a letter from Lexus to have the transmission chip changed. I had the chip changed. I still experienced the problem so on 10/15/2004 I took the car back in to Lexus to have some other work performed and also asked that they fix the hisitation problem again. I was told they can't. I wanted out of the lease I even was willing to pay additional money to get out. However it wil cost me an extra $100.00 in a month payment to get out of a car which is clearly dangerous. Please help and advise.

Thank you

Brenda

←

Unfortunately, I don't have anything to advise. As you can see from this thread, I've tried everything up to and including arbitration - none of which accomplished anything. The only thing I haven't done is get a lawyer. That's probably the only thing that MIGHT work - but even there it's an uphill battle. I don't have time for that.

steviej · October 16, 2004

people will flame me for this answer but her goes.

Brenda,

I at first was concerned about the hesitation. I have overcome the hesitation problem by adapting to its presence. Don't floor the car, 3/4 throttle will give you the acceleration you need. Use the throttle to control the tranny shifting. If I were in Denver I would be more than happy to demonstrate. Many of us have learned how to do this so much that it is just instinctive.

I realize it is not the way it should be, but it is the way it has to be for this electronic throttle/tranny combination in my car. I never had the reflash of the ECU and do not plan to do that either.

Lastly, I have also become a much more defensive driver and don't put myself in situations where the hesitation will come into play in a panic. That is not the norm in Boston where offensive driving is the rule of the road.

The car has so many more benefits that far outweigh the hesitation problem.

If that is not the answer you were looking for, I am sorry, that is the best I can do to help with your frustration. Other than that, like jrag. stated a lawyer and a class action suit may be the next step. But I am not aweware of any fatalities or major accidents due to the hesitation so a class action suit would be hard.

steviej

Poppi · October 18, 2004

If you speak of "the fix" that came out in Aug 2003 (TC004-03), this fix is NOT a fix for the hesitation. It is a flash rewrite of the ECM to appease the masses for the multiple tranny issues and the and the only think it achieved was removing the slight joggle that could be felt when the tranny hunted for 5th at about 40mph.
this fix is also perminent and you are asked to sign a form stating you are aware of this. This means if you don't like the fix you are crap out of luck. Your old ECU program cannot be re-flashed over the fix.

Poppi, after you get "the fix", post back after the tranny has had enough time to relearn your driving habits. Let us know if the hesitation is still there. I will bet it is.

My service manager was so unhappy with "the fix", he would allow me to get it. I have such a good relationship with the dealer, he said I would be a much bigger PIA after the fix cause I definateley wouldn't like it.

Also, all ES's made after 8/03 supposedly have the fix programmed into the tranny already. If any late 2003, 2004 or 2005 ES owner has a hesitiation........there's your proof, the fix didn't cure the hesitation.

steviej

stevieJ,

I wrote Lexus Corp. and they emailed me back and they called it a 'fix', not me. I was just repeating what they told me in their email. I have read earlier by other posters about 'the fix' not being what Lexus claims it to be. Now that's quite something isn't it? This ES300 and the RX300 we have has the same hesitating problem when downshifting. The ES300 is worse. What happened to Lexus quality is my question. After the millions of cars with automatic transmissions with seamless shifting transmissions, Lexus has lost it in my opinion.

Those two different Toyota Avalons transmissions shifted so smoothly you never felt it shift from one gear to the next. The 2004 Avalon's shift just as smoothly while LS430 and ES300 and RX300's all shift with a jerky and high revving engine RPM's. It's the pits. I like for cars to not rattle and transmissions that shift smoothly.

Poppi

Poppi · October 18, 2004

Hey everyone, I fouled up big time somehow. I didn't think my reply had posted and every time I clicked send it was posting steviej's post as well as mine and I apologize to everyone for this.

Poppi

steviej · October 19, 2004

Poppi, I fixed you multiple/duplicate postings.

When I was typing "the fix" I was quoting Lexus and not you. I revieved the same letter and had the same converstions with the same pertinent parties at Lexus Corporate too.

As for the Avalon, I am curious if it has the same electronic throttle system present in the ES and RX. That may be the difference.

steviej

Poppi · October 19, 2004

Thanks stevej,

Another problem with the ES300 is a clunking noise when turning the steering wheel at low speeds. (I wouldn't be turning it at a high speed). It happens on level pavement as well as say like going in and out of my driveway where it is an up and down motion and the clunking can be felt in the steering wheel. The Lexus service manager claims he has never had this complaint before this car. I do not know as I have never driven another 2003 ES300 and have nothing to gauge it by.

Have any of you experienced this problem?

Thanks again steviej,

Poppi

jragosta · October 19, 2004

Thanks stevej,
Another problem with the ES300 is a clunking noise when turning the steering wheel at low speeds. (I wouldn't be turning it at a high speed). It happens on level pavement as well as say like going in and out of my driveway where it is an up and down motion and the clunking can be felt in the steering wheel. The Lexus service manager claims he has never had this complaint before this car. I do not know as I have never driven another 2003 ES300 and have nothing to gauge it by.

Have any of you experienced this problem?

Thanks again steviej,

Poppi

←

I get a similar noise on my ES330 - only when making a hard right turn and hitting a bump pretty hard at the same time. The dealer couldn't duplicate the problem and I'm not too worried about it. If it gets worse, I'll have if fixed.

obsidianr · October 19, 2004

Poppi, I fixed you multiple/duplicate postings.
When I was typing "the fix" I was quoting Lexus and not you. I revieved the same letter and had the same converstions with the same pertinent parties at Lexus Corporate too.

As for the Avalon, I am curious if it has the same electronic throttle system present in the ES and RX. That may be the difference.

steviej

←

I had a similar problem that only occurred when steering clockwise and it was fairly quiet so it could only be heard at low speeds (<30 MPH). After taking the car in to the dealership 4 times, they finally resolved it. They had replaced several parts before finding the one that actually caused the noise. I don't recall what it was, I'll check my records and post the fix a little later.

Poppi · October 20, 2004

obsidianr,

As soon as you find out what part or parts that were required to eliminate the 'clunking' noise while turning the steering wheel, please let me know.

I haven't figured out how to email anyone directly who posts on this board. So here is my email address....... My email address

Tnanks,

Poppi

Poppi · October 20, 2004

Didn't work.....

email address is.... hgcamp@cablelynx.com

Poppi

SW03ES · October 22, 2004

Mine does this too. Just had the dealer check it and they couldn't reproduce it either (doesn't happen all the time) they ispected and lubricated all the front steering, chassis and drivetrain parts.

I was told by one owner that the problem was the secondary steering shaft and it had to be replaced. I asked my service rep and he says they didn't even check the steering components and would when I bring it in for the next service (you'd think they'd have done that when the issue is a light clunk when turning :rolleyes: ).