02-06 Transmission hesitation problems

[SW03ES]

I just don't see it, niether did the NHTSA when they did an investigation into the transmission issue. There has never been a traffic accident reported blamed on the transmission hesitation that they could find, with all the ES's sold from 2002-2004 (when they did the investigation) you'd think they could have found ONE instance if it were truly dangerous. Anyways mine's still shifting smooth after the update and I'm getting better mileage than ever, but that may be due to my new tires.

Annoying sure, dangerous no. Old argument though.

[Ray Corbett]

I just don't see it, niether did the NHTSA when they did an investigation into the transmission issue. There has never been a traffic accident reported blamed on the transmission hesitation that they could find, with all the ES's sold from 2002-2004 (when they did the investigation) you'd think they could have found ONE instance if it were truly dangerous. Anyways mine's still shifting smooth after the update and I'm getting better mileage than ever, but that may be due to my new tires.

Annoying sure, dangerous no. Old argument though.

←

Circumstances are different. Tests can be managed to control the outcome. When you are trying to cross over 2 lanes of traffic running at least 70mph and you keep pressing the accelerator with no results and suddenly at 3/4 throttle it lunges forward just as you were about to abort your move it is pretty scary. This obviously has become a forum of opinions and enough said there. Suffice it to say I don't believe there has ever been this much print about something that was not a problem. Ray Corbett

[amf1932]

I don't know that this problem can be considered an "argument".......it's a fact that many, many owners are totally disenchanted with their new Lexus's performance because of the unexpected transmission reaction to their throttle input. Regardless of the fact that NHTSA did not find anything wrong in this area is NO indication that it doesn't exist, it definitely does.....and this CAN be dangerous. Does it take somebody's death in a car accident to prove this?

As an aside...I have found that after this last reflash my gas mileage has suffered. I attribute this due to the higher shifting RPM's that have to be achieved before it goes into the next higher gear.

As it stands now, I personally feel that this type of transmission response will never make me, as others, very happy with this cars otherwise positive attributes.

[SW03ES]

Ray- I'm not saying its not a problem, I'm saying its not a safety issue. Again, have you had the latest reflash done?

[98es]

The mpg on our 02 keeps getting worse. The last tank, with 80% city, got 15.5 mpg. That's not driving agressively either. The reflash does seem to help the hesitation a bit. Ray- if you're willing to sacrifice a few mpg for less hesitation, go for the reflash. It's still not anywhere near perfect though... just my two cents....

[amf1932]

Are the '06 GS models plagued with the same type of transmission problems as the ES's? If they're not, I'm seriously considering trading in my '03 ES. I haven't seen as massive amounts of posts concerning the GS's transmission glitches.

[SW03ES]

The one I drove had the hesitation yes. They all have them, why they don't get as much press I don't know its probably a function of hits. The more traffic you get for ES transmission hesitation the more it pops up on search engines etc. There's a thread in every model forum about this issue. They also sell many more ES and RX vehicles than anything else, and you see more posts about this issue in those forums.

The GS has the ECT PWR mode though which I found in my dad's LS improves the hesitation somewhat. I don't think you'll be happy with the ride of the GS vs the ES though. The GS is a sharp car but its not for me.

[steviej]

I can say for my foot/ES that the upgrade is an improvement over what I had. It still performs smoothly and the shift hesitation is drastically reduced from what it was, but I will agree, it is not removed.

my MPG remains unchanged.

steviej

[lexusUS1]

Caught this forum as I googled for the Lexus Lurching problem. My wife recently purchased a 2005 ES300 in 02/05 and within 2 weeks started to have the problem discussed herein. We ignored it for awhile until it continued to worsen. As with many here, it became very annoying and dangerous with time. Today we took it to the dealer for a review. The "fix" was as follows: "Test drove car. Found to be lagging when accelerating from a stop. Recalibrated ECM to reduce downshift lag when accelerating at speeds from 10-20MPH. Less gear hunting when driving on/off accelerator at 20-30MPH. Improved response rate during heavy acceleration from a stop." After reviewing the TC004-04 that was posted in this site, I believe that is what they complied with.

I now find that the car idles at a slighly higher RPM in drive when stopped but the lurching has disappeared. Now I find that the general overall engine/transmission reponse is squirly at moderate cruise speeds of 40-50MPH as if it's searching for the right gear setting or throttle position. I told the wife to anticipate a reduction in gas mileage.

The Dealer also told me it was because of the octane gas we were running in it. The manual says 87 Octane is OK yet the Dealer says the car was designed to run on 97 Octane for best performance. This little tid-bit was not disclosed, not really sure if it's true anyway, but nontheless, it was not disclosed on the sales information sheet on the window nor did the salesman mention this at the time of the purchase. I can understand if the engine was retarding to compensate for an engine ping, but this is not the case so the octane grade shouldn't matter.

I am very surprised as the amount of postings here as well as on the Lexus Owners Club UK, that Lexus hasn't addressed the issue a little better. In the UK, people are returning their cars and demanding refunds.

I for one will not take this problem as a "Lexus thing" being the car is $40k+.

And finally, it can be very dangerous if you are not able to judge your vehicles next movement, speed or lack there of to either one.

[marcy]

Have you had the update performed?

Not to sound like a broken record but I live in Washington DC (2nd worst traffic in the country) and I've never felt unsafe in my ES. I think "safe to get home alive" is a little dramatic.

←

Sorry pal......I don't think that this statement is too far from the truth! I know exactly what he's feeling. <_<

←

[SW03ES]

The reason there are so many postings is because people are finding it through google like you did. These people post here about the issue and never post on the site again. So its not truly representative of the amount of owners having the issue or the amount of our members having the issue.

How long has it been since you've had the update done? Mine got a little rough at some other speeds at first but it did get better within 1000 miles or so. My guess is yours will too then you'll be happy with it.

As for the gas, the manual reads "The vehicle can run on 87 octane, but for best performance premium (91+) is reccomended" I always run premium in my car and have never had any problems.

[jragosta]

I just don't see it, niether did the NHTSA when they did an investigation into the transmission issue. There has never been a traffic accident reported blamed on the transmission hesitation that they could find, with all the ES's sold from 2002-2004 (when they did the investigation) you'd think they could have found ONE instance if it were truly dangerous. Anyways mine's still shifting smooth after the update and I'm getting better mileage than ever, but that may be due to my new tires.

Annoying sure, dangerous no. Old argument though.

←

Actually, AFAIK, NHTSA has never investigated the ES transmission issue.

[SW03ES]

It was included in the investigation of the unintended acceleration issue.

[amf1932]

It was included in the investigation of the unintended acceleration issue.

←

This is NOT the issue that people are complaining about!

[SW03ES]

The throttle hesitation and engine surge are not the issues people are complaining about?

[amf1932]

The throttle hesitation and engine surge are not the issues people are complaining about?

←

"Unintended acceleration" is not the same as the problems that most everybody on this thread are complaining about. I'm really surprised at you for making this comparison, unless you're looking to start a war about the semantics. <_<

The following is a description of the incidents that the NHTSA was looking for in this probe:

"Federal safety investigators have closed their probe into reports of unintended acceleration in 2002 and 2003 Toyota Camry, Camrty Solara and Lexus ES300 models. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) opened the investigation after receiving reports of 30 accidents, including one in which a pedestrian was injured.

The probe centered around the cars' electronic throttle control. Many newer cars transmit acceleration signals electronically rather than using the traditional movable steel cable."

NHTSA said it analyzed many of the cars involved in the mishaps and found nothing abnormal with the throttle controls. It said sudden surges are sometimes caused by drivers who are unfamiliar with their new vehicles.

[SW03ES]

I don't know where you got that synopsis but the synopsis I have talks about complaints of throttle surging when accelerating from a stop and transmission hesitation and how they relate, if they do at all, to the issue of unintended acceleration. While the probe was not specifically targeted at the transmission hesitation it was a variable in their probe.

Like I've told you before, the problem does not lie with the transmission, its the electronic throttle. Thats why Lexus can't fix it because the transmission always has to work around the electronic throttle.

[amf1932]

I don't know where you got that synopsis but the synopsis I have talks about complaints of throttle surging when accelerating from a stop and transmission hesitation and how they relate, if they do at all, to the issue of unintended acceleration. While the probe was not specifically targeted at the transmission hesitation it was a variable in their probe.

Like I've told you before, the problem does not lie with the transmission, its the electronic throttle. Thats why Lexus can't fix it because the transmission always has to work around the electronic throttle.

←

Here's where I got it from: http://www.consumeraffairs.com/recalls04/n...yota_lexus.html

[SW03ES]

The one I have is much longer and has more detail, I'll try and find it again.

[amf1932]

The one I have is much longer and has more detail, I'll try and find it again.

←

Is this what you were talking about?

NHTSA Action Number : PE04021 NHTSA Recall Campaign Number : N/A

Make : LEXUS Model: ES300

Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC. Year : 2002

Component : VEHICLE SPEED CONTROL

Date Investigation Opened : March 3, 2004

Date Investigation Closed : July 22, 2004

Summary:

THE LEXUS MODELS WERE THE SUBJECT OF DEFECT PETITION (DP) 04-004. TWELVE ODI COMPLAINTS ARE DUPLICATIVE TO TOYOTA REPORTS, INCLUDING THE TWO MINOR CRASHES. THE V6 EQUIPPED SOLARA MODELS HAVE BEEN EXCLUDED BECAUSE THEY DO NOT CONTAIN THE SUBJECT THROTTLE CONTROL SYSTEM. TOYOTA INTRODUCED ELECTRONIC THROTTLE CONTROL (ETC) ON THE SUBJECT VEHICLES BEGINNING IN MODEL YEAR (MY) 2002. ODI OPENED THE INVESTIGATION TO DETERMINE IF THE SYSTEM COULD BE THE CAUSE OF COMPLAINTS ALLEGING THE ENGINE SPEED INCREASED, OR FAILED TO DECREASE, (FOR A SHORT DURATION) WHEN THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL WAS NOT DEPRESSED (THE ALLEGED DEFECT). DURING THE COURSE OF THE INVESTIGATION, ODI ANALYZED AGENCY DATA AND REVIEWED VEHICLE OWNER QUESTIONNAIRE (VOQ) REPORTS, CONDUCTED INTERVIEWS INVOLVING 113 VOQ AND 36 TOYOTA REPORTS, INSPECTED TWO COMPLAINANT VEHICLES, REVIEWED RELEVANT TOYOTA SERVICE AND NEW CAR FEATURE DOCUMENTATION, REVIEWED AND ANALYZED TOYOTAS RESPONSES TO ODIS INFORMATION REQUEST LETTER, CONDUCTED A LIMITED CONTROL PEDAL ASSESSMENT, AND ATTENDED A TOYOTA TECHNICAL PRESENTATION THAT INCLUDED THE ASSESSMENT OF TWO DEMONSTRATION VEHICLES. THROUGH INTERVIEWS, ODI IDENTIFIED 14 VOQ AND 6 TOYOTA REPORTS (20 UNIQUE VEHICLES) WHERE COMPLAINANTS REPORT MULTIPLE OCCURRENCES OF THE ALLEGED DEFECT. IN SOME CASES THE CONDITION WAS EXPERIENCED BY DIFFERENT VEHICLE OPERATORS OR WAS WITNESSED BY OTHER OCCUPANTS. ODI WAS UNABLE TO MAKE A DETERMINATION AS TO THE CAUSE OF 9 TOYOTA AND AN ADDITIONAL 37 VOQ REPORTS (WHICH DESCRIBE 28 UNIQUE INCIDENTS) DUE TO INSUFFICIENT INFORMATION. THE REMAINING COMPLAINANTS INTERVIEWED (62 VOQ, 21 TOYOTA) DESCRIBED CONDITIONS NOT CAUSED BY A FAILURE OF THE THROTTLE CONTROL SYSTEM AND WERE THUS CONSIDERED UNRELATED TO THE INVESTIGATION. NONE OF THE COMPLAINANTS INTERVIEWED REPORTED A COMPONENT FAILURE (OR OTHER INDICATOR OF A SYSTEM FAILURE) AS THE POTENTIAL CAUSE OF INCIDENTS RELEVANT TO THIS INVESTIGATION. IN MANY CASES, THE COMPLAINT VEHICLES WERE SUBSEQUENTLY INSPECTED BY DEALERSHIP OR MANUFACTURER REPRESENTATIVES WHO ALSO FAILED TO IDENTIFY A FAULT WITHIN THE VEHICLE. TOYOTA IDENTIFIED 43 RELATED WARRANTY CLAIMS, 24 OF WHICH WERE FOR DIAGNOSTIC PURPOSES ONLY (NO REPAIRS PERFORMED). ODI FOUND NOTHING ABNORMAL IN THE CONTROL PEDAL CONFIGURATION OF THE SUBJECT VEHICLES. A DEFECT TREND HAS NOT BEEN IDENTIFIED AT THIS TIME AND FURTHER USE OF AGENCY RESOURCES DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE WARRANTED. ACCORDINGLY, THIS INVESTIGATION IS CLOSED. THE CLOSING OF THIS INVESTIGATION DOES NOT CONSTITUTE A FINDING BY NHTSA THAT A SAFETY-RELATED DEFECT DOES NOT EXIST. THE AGENCY WILL TAKE FURTHER ACTION IF WARRANTED BY THE CIRCUMSTANCES. SEE THE ATTACHED SUMMARY FOR FURTHER DETAIL.

[jragosta]

The one I have is much longer and has more detail, I'll try and find it again.

←

Is this what you were talking about?

NHTSA Action Number : PE04021 NHTSA Recall Campaign Number : N/A

Make : LEXUS Model: ES300

Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC. Year : 2002

Component : VEHICLE SPEED CONTROL

Date Investigation Opened : March 3, 2004

Date Investigation Closed : July 22, 2004

Summary:

THE LEXUS MODELS WERE THE SUBJECT OF DEFECT PETITION (DP) 04-004. TWELVE ODI COMPLAINTS ARE DUPLICATIVE TO TOYOTA REPORTS, INCLUDING THE TWO MINOR CRASHES. THE V6 EQUIPPED SOLARA MODELS HAVE BEEN EXCLUDED BECAUSE THEY DO NOT CONTAIN THE SUBJECT THROTTLE CONTROL SYSTEM. TOYOTA INTRODUCED ELECTRONIC THROTTLE CONTROL (ETC) ON THE SUBJECT VEHICLES BEGINNING IN MODEL YEAR (MY) 2002. ODI OPENED THE INVESTIGATION TO DETERMINE IF THE SYSTEM COULD BE THE CAUSE OF COMPLAINTS ALLEGING THE ENGINE SPEED INCREASED, OR FAILED TO DECREASE, (FOR A SHORT DURATION) WHEN THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL WAS NOT DEPRESSED (THE ALLEGED DEFECT). DURING THE COURSE OF THE INVESTIGATION, ODI ANALYZED AGENCY DATA AND REVIEWED VEHICLE OWNER QUESTIONNAIRE (VOQ) REPORTS, CONDUCTED INTERVIEWS INVOLVING 113 VOQ AND 36 TOYOTA REPORTS, INSPECTED TWO COMPLAINANT VEHICLES, REVIEWED RELEVANT TOYOTA SERVICE AND NEW CAR FEATURE DOCUMENTATION, REVIEWED AND ANALYZED TOYOTA’S RESPONSES TO ODI’S INFORMATION REQUEST LETTER, CONDUCTED A LIMITED CONTROL PEDAL ASSESSMENT, AND ATTENDED A TOYOTA TECHNICAL PRESENTATION THAT INCLUDED THE ASSESSMENT OF TWO DEMONSTRATION VEHICLES. THROUGH INTERVIEWS, ODI IDENTIFIED 14 VOQ AND 6 TOYOTA REPORTS (20 UNIQUE VEHICLES) WHERE COMPLAINANTS REPORT MULTIPLE OCCURRENCES OF THE ALLEGED DEFECT. IN SOME CASES THE CONDITION WAS EXPERIENCED BY DIFFERENT VEHICLE OPERATORS OR WAS WITNESSED BY OTHER OCCUPANTS. ODI WAS UNABLE TO MAKE A DETERMINATION AS TO THE CAUSE OF 9 TOYOTA AND AN ADDITIONAL 37 VOQ REPORTS (WHICH DESCRIBE 28 UNIQUE INCIDENTS) DUE TO INSUFFICIENT INFORMATION. THE REMAINING COMPLAINANTS INTERVIEWED (62 VOQ, 21 TOYOTA) DESCRIBED CONDITIONS NOT CAUSED BY A FAILURE OF THE THROTTLE CONTROL SYSTEM AND WERE THUS CONSIDERED UNRELATED TO THE INVESTIGATION. NONE OF THE COMPLAINANTS INTERVIEWED REPORTED A COMPONENT FAILURE (OR OTHER INDICATOR OF A SYSTEM FAILURE) AS THE POTENTIAL CAUSE OF INCIDENTS RELEVANT TO THIS INVESTIGATION. IN MANY CASES, THE COMPLAINT VEHICLES WERE SUBSEQUENTLY INSPECTED BY DEALERSHIP OR MANUFACTURER REPRESENTATIVES WHO ALSO FAILED TO IDENTIFY A FAULT WITHIN THE VEHICLE. TOYOTA IDENTIFIED 43 RELATED WARRANTY CLAIMS, 24 OF WHICH WERE FOR DIAGNOSTIC PURPOSES ONLY (NO REPAIRS PERFORMED). ODI FOUND NOTHING ABNORMAL IN THE CONTROL PEDAL CONFIGURATION OF THE SUBJECT VEHICLES. A DEFECT TREND HAS NOT BEEN IDENTIFIED AT THIS TIME AND FURTHER USE OF AGENCY RESOURCES DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE WARRANTED. ACCORDINGLY, THIS INVESTIGATION IS CLOSED. THE CLOSING OF THIS INVESTIGATION DOES NOT CONSTITUTE A FINDING BY NHTSA THAT A SAFETY-RELATED DEFECT DOES NOT EXIST. THE AGENCY WILL TAKE FURTHER ACTION IF WARRANTED BY THE CIRCUMSTANCES. SEE THE ATTACHED SUMMARY FOR FURTHER DETAIL.

←

Exactly. Note that this complaint was when engine speed increased while the accelerator was not depressed.

It has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. NHTSA has never ruled on the transmission hesitation and hard shifting problem, although I think I read that they've opened an investigation.

[amf1932]

That's exactly what I was saying.......this is NOT the problem that this thread is all about.

[SW03ES]

Thats not the summary I had, maybe what I saw was whatever summary they note at the bottom as being attatched.

Not the same issue no, but related. Both complaints stem from the electronic throttle system.

[amf1932]

Removed.

[aesanchez1]

I just don't see it, niether did the NHTSA when they did an investigation into the transmission issue. There has never been a traffic accident reported blamed on the transmission hesitation that they could find, with all the ES's sold from 2002-2004 (when they did the investigation) you'd think they could have found ONE instance if it were truly dangerous. Anyways mine's still shifting smooth after the update and I'm getting better mileage than ever, but that may be due to my new tires.

Annoying sure, dangerous no. Old argument though.

←

Circumstances are different. Tests can be managed to control the outcome. When you are trying to cross over 2 lanes of traffic running at least 70mph and you keep pressing the accelerator with no results and suddenly at 3/4 throttle it lunges forward just as you were about to abort your move it is pretty scary. This obviously has become a forum of opinions and enough said there. Suffice it to say I don't believe there has ever been this much print about something that was not a problem. Ray Corbett

←

I can't agree with Ray more. I have a 2003 ES300 and from the day I bought it, I have felt unsafe driving whenever I have to make a quick turn and there is oncomming traffic or when I have to merge onto the interstate. When I leave work, I have to cross over 2 lanes of stopped traffic into three lanes driving 50-70 mph. It is scary and is truly dangerous, especially for a new owner or someone who is not aware that the car does this. When you hit the accelerator and there is a delay of a couple of seconds before the car responds, it can be VERY dangerous at those speeds.

Last week, I took my car in for the most recent flash (I believe April 2005). This has corrected the problem. I wouldn't say it's 100% but I feel so much better driving my car now. It doesn't lurch when I accelerate from a stop any more. I still notice sometimes the transmission doesn't shift smoothly at around 30mph, but it's minor. I had a flash in 2002 which did nothing but I recommed to ALL owners to have this done.