VMF Posted August 14, 2003 Author Posted August 14, 2003 no female drivers in F1 or any other races, if they are there its just exotic and they never win. as to the accidents even the female drivers that i know have they cars all scratched up. broken bumpers, scratches on the sides... etc. so once again i never saw a good woman driving. oh btw when i went to lunch today i saw an old blonde gettin out of brand new 2003 Ls with f..d up front and rear bumper. even her custom plate was all bent!!!
VBdenny Posted August 14, 2003 Posted August 14, 2003 Well VMF, this has certainly turned out to be one of the hottest topics on the forum in awhile. Little some lady driving carelessly in Brooklyn, know what she has started. I see all the mods have joined in as well. I'll say this, I met my wife in college because she was waxing her 69 Barracuda. First time I had ever seen a girl waxing a car. That thing ripped until it got stolen. She's never had a wreck (I've had 7 or 8), she's never had a ticket (uh, I had 7 or 8 of them), she speeds but drives great (I suspect not getting caught is luck). I've ridden with her doing 90MPH on the Jersey Turnpike. My daugher changes tires, brakes and oil. She also details the inside of the cars. She has pictures of cars on her walls. You won't find any of the shirtless boys who a currently famous. Nope, just cars. And no, she is not ugly, there are boys hanging around our house all the time, because she likes cars. She loves cruising the Lexus. It's all about respect. I have many things that bother me, but I've never gained much from expressing them. Especially to those who disagree. Politics, personal things, car prefference, doesn't maker. People disagree. You are you, I am me, we have the right to disagree (R. BRADSHAW et al, 1995). Let's all be cool, this is a great forum for everyone. Now, let's get back to what we do best. Someone get out there and start a post on street racing they done in their 400's. I want to know what cars I can blow off, and what I can't. Might make me crave for even more power. Denny
SW03ES Posted August 14, 2003 Posted August 14, 2003 no female drivers in F1 or any other races, if they are there its just exotic and they never win. as to the accidents even the female drivers that i know have they cars all scratched up. broken bumpers, scratches on the sides... etc. so once again i never saw a good woman driving. oh btw when i went to lunch today i saw an old blonde gettin out of brand new 2003 Ls with f..d up front and rear bumper. even her custom plate was all bent!!! No female golfers on the PGA either, does that mean they're inferior? Nope, as recent events showed us. You have whats called a "prejudice" so your view on the subject is tainted. You see more women on the road with beat up cars because thats what you're looking for. I see plenty of men with beat up cars too. Also keep in mind just because a car is damaged doesn't mean the driver is bad. I drove my Explorer for 5 years, and it was hit 6 times. If I didnt care about it and never got it fixed, even one of those times, then it'd look like total bleep. Could the woman have been backed into? Very possible. How did you know it was a 2003 LS? May have been a 2001, they're all the same. You say it had a custom plate, meaning it didn't have temporary tags. See, you're seeing what you want to believe. You want all women drivers to be bad, so thats what you find. Do women intimidate you maybe? Just food for thought. I agree with VB, lets get back on topic. Nothing I said is meant as an isult to you, I'm just trying to show you there's two sides to every argument. Singling out the entire female s*x from your limited experienced and biased tilted perception is hardly fair. How goes it with the repair, any estimates yet?
Lexusing Posted August 15, 2003 Posted August 15, 2003 I agree with SW03ES, let's move on and talk about our Lexus, not about our beautiful women ;)
VMF Posted August 16, 2003 Author Posted August 16, 2003 coz it was right next to me and in new york we have those stickers that show u the year and the mileage on the windshield. and oh another case that just happend to me right here 20 mins ago as i was drivin home with my bro. i was dirinv on the green light and i almost got hit by tghe expedition that was goin on the red light. when i honked the car stopped in the middle of the road. guess who was behind the wheel?:) yeah u rite! it was a woman!!! and it looked like she didnt even notice the red light for her!!! she would smash my car and kill both of us!!!!!
VMF Posted August 16, 2003 Author Posted August 16, 2003 that really started me thing about things like fate and stuff. what if i would drive like 3 miles faster..... i would not be sitting here right now coz of some stupid driver......
ToddLS400 Posted August 16, 2003 Posted August 16, 2003 coz it was right next to me and in new york we have those stickers that show u the year and the mileage on the windshield. and oh another case that just happend to me right here 20 mins ago as i was drivin home with my bro. i was dirinv on the green light and i almost got hit by tghe expedition that was goin on the red light. when i honked the car stopped in the middle of the road. guess who was behind the wheel?:) yeah u rite! it was a woman!!! and it looked like she didnt even notice the red light for her!!! she would smash my car and kill both of us!!!!! She's a friend of a member's wife in this forum. That member's wife issued her the "hit" (literally) and she failed in her attempt... I'm glad to see everything went wrong for her while driving (as usual) this time. Because the opposite happenned (as usual) and actually kept you safe. :magic:
ToddLS400 Posted August 16, 2003 Posted August 16, 2003 Ok, let's look at the possible stats. I would say in the US that there are more men on the road daily. Delivery people (i.e. UPS, taxis, commercial trucks, etc), commuters, etc. Yes, there are women that also work in the delivery profession (but a higher percentage of men) and women that commute to work. I would assume more men commute because their wives are taking care of the family at home, which is a worthy and respected repsonsiblity. I'm a single parent so I respect taking care of a family like any family person does. I think there are more men on the road on average and I've only been hit by women when my car was moving.
SW03ES Posted August 16, 2003 Posted August 16, 2003 Actually the numbers are fairly even, there aren't more men on the road daily. Just because a woman is a housewife doesn't mean she doesn't drive. In fact, she drives more. Its fine to say that you've encountered women who can't drive, but its not fair to say that women in general can't drive. Have you met every woman on earth? You can't have because I know women that can drive circles around all of us myself included.
ToddLS400 Posted August 16, 2003 Posted August 16, 2003 From my experiences, MOST women can't drive. SW03ES - I respect you bro. I feel we're having a constructive debate. So I look at it that way only. I think we're both intelligently rebutting. I don't agree with you. I would bet my Lexus that there are more men on the road daily on average. I'm talking about overall drive time including being in congested areas (inner city, etc.) which would naturally increase the possibility of a accident. It has nothing to do with being a male pig or anything narrow minded like that. It has to do with raw statistics that more men commute to work due to the tradtional family structure. Now a married woman that takes care of her family (or with no children) probably drives her vehicle during the day to local destinations close to her house. Errands, dropping off and picking up kids, groceries, post office, etc. I would bet the average person that works from their house drives an average of 2 to 8 miles max per day. I worked out of my house for over 3 years running a internet business while caring for my young child (son), so I speak from experience. Sometimes there was 2 to even 3 days in a row where I didn't even drive my car. Ok, tell me a well known woman race car driver? I know there are a few women on the drag circuit (top fuel). I can remember a woman with a pink rail dragster that did fairly well but she never won overall points for the year. I'm not a race or drag enthusiast either. I do know a dragster goes a 1/4 mile down the strip with no turns at all. Very, very fast and intense. Cool stuff. There is no requirement to judge a upcoming turn, passing or avoiding other vehicles (normally). I can't stand to watch the Indy 500 (no women drivers) or those other oval races on TV. They're boring to me. I like to watch sportbike racing (no women drivers) because I think it's exciting and cool. I own a sportbike so I guess I'm partial? I watched a Formula 1 race (no women drivers) live up in Canada a few years ago and that was really cool. The sound of the engines and the acceleration out of the turns was AWESOME. We were right on the track + we went into the infield part at the main turn. I can still hear the whining of those 1,100HP Formula cars. It was great. I know I'm going to get a lot of crap for this but here goes: A man's "fight or flight" instincts are more honed by nature. This goes all the way back to our primitive male ancestors who had to hunt, gather, protect and fight for himself and his family. I've read that this trait is strictly biological due to the larger circulation of male hormone in a man's body. Now this doesn't account for all men by any means. I know a few guys that can't drive or provide for themselves or their families (if they have one). All they know how to do is provide beer into their mouth. Women also produce a small amount of male hormone (testosterone) via the pancreas while men produce a small amount of female hormones (estrogen). Women, as sweet and beautiful as they are, are more in tune with their emotions largely due to their naturally higher level of estrogen. We all know that being emotional isn't always the best thing to mix with driving. Every time we get in our car we're in control of a 3,000+lb possible manslaughter device. Our body and our emotions are dictated by our hormones if we like it or not. A man (usually) will react faster and more "matter of fact" when thrown into immediate danger like a unforeseen car accident. This is due the "fight or flight" instincts that are primal to a man. A woman has much less male hormone so her "fight of flight" instinct is much less or maybe even nonexistent. Now I'm not talking for all women but most women. From my experiences, MOST women can't drive due to the overall weighted averages along with possible hormonal disadvantages. Let the flaming begin.... :chairshot:
SW03ES Posted August 16, 2003 Posted August 16, 2003 LOL, just because there aren't a lot of women race car drivers doesn't mean they can't drive. Racing is a very male dominated sport, with a fan base that is very traditional, that means women aren't accepted as readily. Give it some time. There are more men car salesmen, does that mean women can't sell cars? I bought my car from a woman and she was one of the best salespeople I've ever seen, and I employ salespeople. She was kind and friendly, was interested in what I wanted, when it came time to make a deal she was $150 higher than another guy, and she sent me packin, she said she knew I'd be back. When the guy botched up my order, I sure enough was. She went ahead and ordered my car for me and everything, always knowing I'd be back. I own my own marketing business, but I went to school to be a psychologist and I just find it really fascinating the way people always attribute broadly on an entire group from their limited experiences with the few. There is no physical or psychological reason why women are worse drivers than men. In fact, quite the opposite because women succomb to anger differently then men do. Women have better eyesight, better concentration, and better problem solving skills. These traits are inherant to the sexes. Driving isn't something that you're just good at or you're not, its a skill that is learned through instruction and repitition. Its not an inborn trait. So there is literally no epirical argument for the posiution "women can't drive", no evidence to support it at all. I respect you too Todd, nothing wrong with a civil debate ;)
SW03ES Posted August 16, 2003 Posted August 16, 2003 Check out this website I found while searching for accident rates. http://christianparty.net/discmen.htm It'll show you what men's fear of women can do to distort statistics. They contradict themselves all over the place, condemn "statistic tricks" used to "aid women" and then turn right around and use the same on themselves. Hilariously pathetic people LOL. They'll spout one statistic and then make 10 statements with no proof like "Men make up 60% of the workforce (a statistic that is true), work harder and are more qualified (Cannot be proven in any way LOL) I'm not saying you're one of these people Todd, I just found this site enormously entertaining given my background lol. Just thought I'd share. These guys say that women drivers have a much higher accident rate, and then they give the numbers and its just the opposite. I'll keep looking for better unbiased info ;)
ToddLS400 Posted August 16, 2003 Posted August 16, 2003 My point is proven. This is copied and pasted from the same link above and here> http://christianparty.net/discmen.htm 23. WOMEN DRIVERS: Even though the crash rate of women drivers is twice that of men drivers, and even though drinking alcohol increases the crash rate of men by only 5%, the majority of those imprisoned under DUI laws are men, and women are almost never imprisoned for their much higher number of non-alcohol-related crashes. I don't understand why you're showing this link? This is Twenty One Indicators of Systemic Discrimination Against Men. I'm not trying to get in a battle of the sexes. I'm not a sexist, I'm a realist. From my experiences, MOST women can't drive.
SW03ES Posted August 16, 2003 Posted August 16, 2003 You're going to use these !Removed! women beater's statistics? ROFLMAO. I was just talking with my fiance about that very point, the information that THEY THEMSELVES give for that statement proves THE OPPOSITE! "33,696 men drivers and 20,156 women drivers were involved in the traffic fatalities of 41,967 American citizens in 1997. 28,538 of these fatalities were men." This shows that there are MORE accidents involving men! See my post above, I just included this link because I found it entertaining, not as evidence about this debate. I'm still looking for some UNBIASED statistics but they're hard to find, the NHTSA released the statistics for last year, but they dont break them down by demographics. You're getting there, but not quite. You still have never met MOST women (Thats 51% of all the women on earth), the MOST you can say is "No women I've met can drive", otherwise your statement means nothing because you don't have the experience to back it up.
SW03ES Posted August 16, 2003 Posted August 16, 2003 I found some stats, but they're not great and again from some christian cooalition: "Percentage of American women who slow to a stop at a yellow light? 30% Percentage of men who do? 9%" "Men are 250% more likely to die by car accident than women are." Still lookin ;)
ToddLS400 Posted August 16, 2003 Posted August 16, 2003 There are more men car salesmen, does that mean women can't sell cars? I bought my car from a woman and she was one of the best salespeople I've ever seen, and I employ salespeople. I've been a professional salesperson my whole life. I am currently a mortgage wholesale rep for a major lender. I actually believe women have an advatage in sales due to their gender giving them an emotional understanding advatnage. I have worked with some TREMENDOUS women in sales. In fact I work with a woman right now that is the best salesperson in our region. She is AWESOME! We talked on the phone yesterday for a hour and a half mostly about work. I ask her for advice all of the time. That has nothing to do with our discussion of women drivers. I'm not painting a general brush on women drivers because I'm ignorant. I'm going by statistics and personal expereince. If I took the 4 accidents where I was hit by all women and assumed that men caused accidents at the same rate. I would come up with a 3 to 1 rate (throwing a male caused accident into the ratio since I haven't been in enough accidents to be hit by a man as of yet) of women to men drivers operating a vehicle on the road. So that would be 300 women drivers to 100 men drivers as you're driving down the freeway. Look around and make your own assessment as you're driving down the freeway. I personally don't buy it. I believe there are more men on the road but women cause more accidents (at fault) which really proves my point. The fatality rate has nothing to do with it either. The point is that women cause more at fault accidents on average due to a lower # of women drivers compared to the higher # of male drivers. I would suspect that women are 2 to 1 more likely to cause a traffic accident than their male counterparts? From my experiences, MOST women can't drive.
SW03ES Posted August 16, 2003 Posted August 16, 2003 Then there's the whole bit about women paying much less for auto insurance than men. If insurance companies had more claims from women, then it would be the opposite trust me... I can't find good statistics broken down by s*x, only by age. I'll keep looking, but anything I find in that department is going to be useless because the NHTSA and the NSA don't break their released data down that way. I'd have to get info from insurance claims.
SW03ES Posted August 16, 2003 Posted August 16, 2003 I'm not painting a general brush on women drivers because I'm ignorant. I' going by statistics and personal expereince. If I took the 4 accidents where I was hit by all women and assumed that men caused accidents at the same rate. I would come up with a 3 to 1 rate of women to men drivers operating a vehicle on the road. So that would be 300 women drivers to 100 men drivers as you're driving down the freeway. Look around and make your own assessment as you're driving down the freeway. I personally don't buy it. I believe there are more men on the road but women cause (at fault) more accidents. But see, what statistics are you using because there are none out there divided by s*x. Your limited experience doesn't provide a large enough sample to be a true representation of the population, so any "statistic" that you compute from that is automatically a total farse because the sample is not a true representation of the population in question. This is Freshman year Statistics for Social Sciences. I ask you this, if women cause more accidents, which causes more insurance claims, why do men on average pay 25%-50% more in insurance premiums than women? Its the same reason that teenagers pay 75% more than adults, because they cause more accidents. The person who causes more accidents pays more in insurance, thats how it works. So if women cause more accidents, why do they pay less? A 20 year old woman pays less than a 50 year old man, why?
ToddLS400 Posted August 16, 2003 Posted August 16, 2003 Then there's the whole bit about women paying much less for auto insurance than men. If insurance companies had more claims from women, then it would be the opposite trust me...I can't find good statistics broken down by s*x, only by age. I'll keep looking, but anything I find in that department is going to be useless because the NHTSA and the NSA don't break their released data down that way. I'd have to get info from insurance claims. That may be true for males under the age of 25. I would argue that point in whole actually. I remember reading that insurance carriers no longer charge higher premiums to male drivers compared to female drivers. National statistics showed that women received equal or even more traffic violations (speeding, accidents, etc.) in some states. Let's say there are 10 men on the road and 2 women. The men cause 3 accidents and the women cause 1. That's a 33.33% accident ratio for men to a 50% ratio for women. If you find some hard insurance data backing that claim up, I will agree. But I believe (at least over the age of 25) that all policies are written up on driving record, credit, location of where you live, vehicle etc. But not by gender. Again, that still doesn't prove that woman are equal or better drivers. That may just mean that men drive more than women so they are at higher risk of being involved in a accident (caused by a woman?) due to the longer exposure on the road? From my experiences, MOST women can't drive.' BTW, I'm 34 years old and I pay $52/month for full coverage insurance (via PEMCO w/$500 deductible) on my LS400. I now have a clean driving record as of last month. Thank you Prepaid Legal. Are you telling me a woman of my same age can get a better rate than that??? I don't believe your claim of men (over the age of 25) paying higher insurance rates. Please include stats.
SW03ES Posted August 16, 2003 Posted August 16, 2003 I'll call my insurance agent on Monday. My parents are similar in age, my dad is 61, my mom is 56, they both have clean driving records. My dad pays twice what my mom pays because he's a man. My fiance and I both have clean records, I pay twice what she pays. I'll refine my search to insurance claims.
ToddLS400 Posted August 16, 2003 Posted August 16, 2003 I'll call my insurance agent on Monday. My parents are similar in age, my dad is 61, my mom is 56, they both have clean driving records. My dad pays twice what my mom pays because he's a man. My fiance and I both have clean records, I pay twice what she pays. I'll refine my search to insurance claims. Also ask your parents about the way the policy is written up. It could have your mother as a part time driver and your father as the primary driver on the policy.
SW03ES Posted August 16, 2003 Posted August 16, 2003 A breif explanation of the insurance underwriting process: http://www.aburiedheart.com/auto_insurance_claims.htm Keep in mind that if s*x didnt matter, they wouldn't ask.
SW03ES Posted August 16, 2003 Posted August 16, 2003 I'll call my insurance agent on Monday. My parents are similar in age, my dad is 61, my mom is 56, they both have clean driving records. My dad pays twice what my mom pays because he's a man. My fiance and I both have clean records, I pay twice what she pays. I'll refine my search to insurance claims. Also ask your parents about the way the policy is written up. It could have your mother as a part time driver and your father as the primary driver on the policy. Nope they're both primary drivers and my mother's car has a higher claim rate than my father's LS400. His insurance is STILL more. My fiance and I are each 50% drivers of the Lexus, mine is STILL more.
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