Transmission Problems/failures with RX300 awd/fwd

[lenore]

Hate to burst your bubble, but their seems to be no consistancy. Lexus of Roseville is pushing 15k tranny fluid changes, and do you know why, because the stupid transmissions are failing. I think Lexus of America sent some memos out to tell the dealership of this possible solution. But try and prove it. HAVE YOU FILED YOUR COMPLAINT WITH THE NHTS BOARD TODAY?

[tmhtmh]

It's so absurd to need 15k tranny fluid changes in a modern auto that it's laughable.

Toyota doesn't requrire 15K tranny fluid changes, only people in this fourm suggest it.

OF COURSE they don't "require" it. If they did, no one would buy their vehicles! NO vehicle requires that unless it has a major design flaw. OBVIOUSLY, this design is flawed. No, not everyone has a tranny failure within 100k mi., but many do. The old Toyotas were known for great engines and transmissions. They can't keep their reputation if they say "oh.... this one fails if you don't baby it and service the tranny each year".

Again, the dealers know it so they just add it to recommended 30k and 60k services. Some also say 15k as has been pointed out. Either Toyota told them this or it's just based on their experience with failures.

Lastly, it is NOT just "people in this forum". It's all over the internet that this engine sludges and the tranny fails. Mostly, these are long-time toyota/lexus folks.

[wwest]

If the RX transmission is so bad, why don't Toyota Highlander owners have the same complaint? It's the SAME engine and drivetrain. Search the Highlander forums and you'll find few, if any, transmission complaints. Its already been posted that Consumers Reports shows no transmission issues either. If anyone were to highlight a problem with the RX unit it would be CR. The only other comment is that if, and when, transmission service is performed you MUST use the Toyota Type IV transmission fluid.

Actually I belive the transmission issue is with 99/00 and maybe 01? models. I think the highlander came out in 02/03 after the problem (whatever it was) was "fixed"

The U140F AWD transaxle was used in the 98-03 RX300, the 01-03 Highlander and the 00-03 RAV4. The U140E (the two wheel drive unit) was used in the 98-03 RX300, 01-03 Highlander, 99-01 ES300 and the 2002 Camry.

And now....

How do we go about finding out which engine/transaxle FIRMWARE shift control versions were used, or were common, to the various models amd model years? Or how about the possible design variations in the formulation of the viscous fluid for "locking" the center diff'l?

And then there's also the question of what size air bubble was used to delay the onset of VC diff'l locking.

[lenore]

Great question West, wish we could find that info, Why is it that we the customers are searching for the solutions, but Lexus is not? I will tell you why, they want it to go away and move on. They have loss my support until they step up and face reality and support us unhappy customers. If this on the internet, they maybe we should be elevating it up to Corporate and the Government agencies. HAVE YOU FILED YOUR COMPLAINT WITH THE NHTS BOARD TODAY?

[monarch]

In the 1970's Toyota didn't have a "normal" and "severe" transmission service schedule and simply specfied transmission fluid changes at 18,000 or 24,000 mile intervals for all driving conditions. Then later in the 80's and 90's Toyota specfied 15,000 mile transmission fluid changes for "severe" service only. This is where the owner confusion began, because owners wrongly assumed the fluid was good for the life of the transmission when in fact Toyota instructed owners to periodically inspect the fluid level AND CONDITION and change the fluid if inspection revealed it's CONDITION was deteriorating.

In any case, modern transmissions slip more and wear more during shifting (to meet American car owners smooth shifting expectations) and thus actually potentially need more frequent fluid changes than transmssions of the past. Fluids have become more durable, but not enough to fully mitigate the effects of increased slippage. Thus, even 2006 RX owners could be making the same mistake all over again if they assume their fluid is a "lifetime" fluid.

In some other countries Toyota isn't faced with owners that have the attitude "15k tranny fluid changes in a modern auto is laughable" and the owners manuals of Toyotas sold in those countries specify periodic fluid changes for all driving conditions.

Basically, Toyota and the other Japanese car makers are faced with a cultural delimma in the USA. American car owners expect a modern transmission to be both maintenance free and durable at the same time, yet fuel economy considerations require the transmissions to be lightweight, light duty designs that potentially need more frequent fluid changes. Savvy Japanese car owners understand and accept this situation and periodically change all the fluids and lubes in their cars regardless of what the owners manual says. Savvy Japanese car owners also understand the maintenance frequency intervals listed in the manual are merely minimum frequency intervals required to keep the powertrain warranty in effect, but aren't optimal if the owner expects the powertrain components to last well beyond 6 years or 70,000 miles.

Toyota and the other Japanese car makers know that even the unsavvy owners who end up with powertrain component failures due to maintenance neglect are STILL usually going to end up buying another Japanese vehicle because the American car makers have and always will lag behind the Japanese when it comes to reliability and durability.

[zeusigchi]

I am going in for a regular service with my mechanic next week for an oil change and after seeing all these posts about the tranny I am going to have him service it as well. Will having him service it void my powertrain warranty?

And when I do have him service it do I need a flush or simply just change the tranny fluid? Should I get the tranny fluid for him to put in it?

[lenore]

Absolutely provide the Toyota Type IV fluid. Bring in 5 quarts and do just a drain and refill unless you want to change the filter. You can get the filter at toyota or Lexus dealerships, But then the pan would have to be removed. I would not suggest a flush. May stir up debris into the valve body assembly. Just have the drain and fill done on a frequent basis to give your tranny a chance. If your car is Two wheel drive, you probably will not have a problem. As long as he uses Toyota Type IV the powertrain warranty is not voided. Keep all receipts. It is against the law to void warranty if the correct maintenance and fluid is used.

[zeusigchi]

Excellent! Thanks for the reply lenore

[Ericok]

HAVE YOU FILED YOUR COMPLAINT WITH THE NHTS BOARD TODAY?

Total number of RX300 transmission failures reported on NHTSA website: '99=8; '00=2; '01=0; '02=0; '03=0. Note: not all the problems reported under the "transmission" category were transmission failures.

[tmhtmh]

In some other countries Toyota isn't faced with owners that have the attitude "15k tranny fluid changes in a modern auto is laughable" and the owners manuals of Toyotas sold in those countries specify periodic fluid changes for all driving conditions.

IF that's true, then you are making our point for us, monarch. It is just dishonest and false to do this. If they know the fluid requires changing then it should be publicly know and in the manual so the consumercan make an informed decision.

However, I expect it is NOT true that the same vehicles have that different of service requirements in the manual in various countries. If they did THAt then they'd lose any lawsuit filed on the topic with only the proof of their own foreign manual.

No, it WAS a design flaw of some sort. I'd bet anything the RX330/RX350 owners do not have the same problems. I'm not even sure the 2002 has the same problems. Sure hope not!

[Ericok]

In some other countries Toyota isn't faced with owners that have the attitude "15k tranny fluid changes in a modern auto is laughable" and the owners manuals of Toyotas sold in those countries specify periodic fluid changes for all driving conditions.

This is "Schedule C" for Lexus Singapore. At every 2 years or 40,000km (24,000 miles). Note: Oil and filter are every 10,000km (6,000 miles) also. Singapore would basically be all stop and go driving and they have some kind of service every 5,000km (3,000 miles).

1. Change Engine Oil

2. Change Oil Filter

3. Change Engine Coolant

4. Change Air Filter

5. Change Brake Fluid

6. Change Axle Oil

7. Change Automatic Transmission Fluid

8. Change Transfer Case Fluid (for RX300 only)

And a bunch of checks.

[wwest]

In the 1970's Toyota didn't have a "normal" and "severe" transmission service schedule and simply specfied transmission fluid changes at 18,000 or 24,000 mile intervals for all driving conditions. Then later in the 80's and 90's Toyota specfied 15,000 mile transmission fluid changes for "severe" service only. This is where the owner confusion began, because owners wrongly assumed the fluid was good for the life of the transmission when in fact Toyota instructed owners to periodically inspect the fluid level AND CONDITION and change the fluid if inspection revealed it's CONDITION was deteriorating.

In any case, modern transmissions slip more and wear more during shifting (to meet American car owners smooth shifting expectations) and thus actually potentially need more frequent fluid changes than transmssions of the past. Fluids have become more durable, but not enough to fully mitigate the effects of increased slippage. Thus, even 2006 RX owners could be making the same mistake all over again if they assume their fluid is a "lifetime" fluid.

In some other countries Toyota isn't faced with owners that have the attitude "15k tranny fluid changes in a modern auto is laughable" and the owners manuals of Toyotas sold in those countries specify periodic fluid changes for all driving conditions.

Basically, Toyota and the other Japanese car makers are faced with a cultural delimma in the USA. American car owners expect a modern transmission to be both maintenance free and durable at the same time, yet fuel economy considerations require the transmissions to be lightweight, light duty designs that potentially need more frequent fluid changes. Savvy Japanese car owners understand and accept this situation and periodically change all the fluids and lubes in their cars regardless of what the owners manual says. Savvy Japanese car owners also understand the maintenance frequency intervals listed in the manual are merely minimum frequency intervals required to keep the powertrain warranty in effect, but aren't optimal if the owner expects the powertrain components to last well beyond 6 years or 70,000 miles.

Toyota and the other Japanese car makers know that even the unsavvy owners who end up with powertrain component failures due to maintenance neglect are STILL usually going to end up buying another Japanese vehicle because the American car makers have and always will lag behind the Japanese when it comes to reliability and durability.

Then tell me, please, why is it that I can introduce you to at least 6 LS400 owners ( 1/91, 3/92s, 1/95, and 1/98) all with mileage well above 100k, one above 150k, that have NEVER had reason to drain, flush, or replenish their ATF?

Even in the old clunky late 1960's and early 1970's Fords I drove for well over 200k miles, I did only two ATF change-overs, and those were the result of DIY overhauls in excess of 100K miles.

I have always checked/inspected the ATF during very oil change, which is why I can tell you that the ATF in my 2001 AWD RX300 looked perfectly pristine until suddenly at ~38,000 miles it turned up looking darkish and smelling burned.

[lenore]

West, probably because of the rear wheel drive and no transaxle with weird power takeoffs. And some Lexus engineer that didn't know what the devil he was doing when trying to take off the shelf Camry components and put them on a heavier vehicle with AWD.

[monarch]

Then tell me, please, why is it that I can introduce you to at least 6 LS400 owners ( 1/91, 3/92s, 1/95, and 1/98) all with mileage well above 100k, one above 150k, that have NEVER had reason to drain, flush, or replenish their ATF?Even in the old clunky late 1960's and early 1970's Fords I drove for well over 200k miles, I did only two ATF change-overs, and those were the result of DIY overhauls in excess of 100K miles.I have always checked/inspected the ATF during very oil change, which is why I can tell you that the ATF in my 2001 AWD RX300 looked perfectly pristine until suddenly at ~38,000 miles it turned up looking darkish and smelling burned.

The LS400 has the heavy duty 340 series automatic transmission that Toyota designed in the early 1980's for heavy, powerful vehicles such as Cressidas, Supras, Toyota V6 motorhomes and so forth. Heavy duty Japanese transmissions,like heavy duty American car transmissions (e.g the famous Turbo Hydra Matic 400, Chrysler 727, Ford C6?automatics) can better withstand severe operating conditions and maintenance neglect., plus the fluid may not deteriorate as fast, From 1973-1982 the bandless Toyota automatics in all model lines were highly durable partly because they used Type F fluid which provided firm shifts with minimal slippage. Witness Bicolini's 1981 Celica with over 438,000 miles on its Toyota A40D 4 speed automatic.

West, probably because of the rear wheel drive and no transaxle with weird power takeoffs. And some Lexus engineer that didn't know what the devil he was doing when trying to take off the shelf Camry components and put them on a heavier vehicle with AWD.

Toyota front wheel drive automatics have been highly durable when fitted to lightweight Toyota cars. There are, for example, several front wheel drive 1984-1995 automatic Corollas in the auto wrecking yards around Sacramento with over 300,000 miles on their odometers.

[lenore]

There you go Monarch, LIGHT WEIGHT cars perform well, what the Hell was Toyota/Lexus thinking when they put the Heavy RX300 on such a light weight transmission, yep distined failure. Dollars in the pockets of Lexus and raping the customers at the tune of $4300 for a rebuilt. Now that is really following the trend of making customers happy. You said it best, the older trannys were built heavier and better. so you roll around in a LS that a a heavy transmission and have never taken for the lost of $4300, but you are comparing apples to oranges. As you said the Ls has a transmission not unlike the detroit trannys that would go hundreds of thousands of miles with no failures, and by the way with generally no maitenance. Until you are in our shoes with the lousy, underdesigned, weak transmission with front wheel and AWD takeoffs you will never understand. Lexus used your LS as a selling point of reliability to suck the rest of us in to buy their RX series of cars, and then whammy the tranny fails prematurely at an exhorbant cost with no sympathy or back up like Honda/Accura did with the MDX. Now that is real customer satisfaction. What a rip. I've learned never buy a first year model again, and don't trust the reliability reports of a manufacturor. You could be their next lemon victim. I changed the fluids every 30k and was rewarded with a 99k failure. Now that really builds my confidence. HAVE YOU FILED A COMPLAINT WITH THE NHTS BOARD TODAY? I did and it felt good, I just hope others on this site do the same.

[Ericok]

Why is it that people will insist on changing their engine oil every 3,000 miles in order to "guarantee long engine life", yet think it's OK to NEVER change transmission fluid? Even coolant doesn't last forever.

[lenore]

Please note I did change my fluid every 30k on the tranny, did you not read the post properly? Oh and by the way I changed the pan gasket and filter each time. I receipts from Lexus of Sacramento for each change. And I did submit all this to Lexus of America and they said sorry, its past warranty. Good luck with your car, I don't wish any bad on you. I don't like seeing anybody get ripped by any car manufacturor.

[Ericok]

Please note I did change my fluid every 30k on the tranny, did you not read the post properly? Oh and by the way I changed the pan gasket and filter each time. I receipts from Lexus of Sacramento for each change. And I did submit all this to Lexus of America and they said sorry, its past warranty. Good luck with your car, I don't wish any bad on you. I don't like seeing anybody get ripped by any car manufacturor.

I wasn't commenting on your situation. I was just making an observation regarding other posters who bragged about going hundreds of thousands of miles with NO maintenance. Which, in my estimation, is more dependent on luck rather than good engineering. Yours was 50,000 miles past the standard 50,000 mile Lexus warranty so I would hardly classify that as being "ripped". Now, if you want to talk about my Fiat X1/9 that threw a timing belt at 25,000 miles and holed two pistons while bending every valve....

[wwest]

Why is it that people will insist on changing their engine oil every 3,000 miles in order to "guarantee long engine life", yet think it's OK to NEVER change transmission fluid? Even coolant doesn't last forever.

Engine lubricating oil is being constantly exposed to and contaminated by the byproducts of combustion.

I only changed the anti-freeze in my 1992 LS400 about two years ago. The freeze level was still good as was the Ph. But the coolant, while still a definite pink color, was beginning to look a little murky.

ATF has two functions only, to act as a hydraulic fluid and as a lubricating oil. Three, now that I think of it, the ATF also serves to carry away the heat load of many of the components.

So, the only source of ATF contamination is due to the wear rate of the clutch frictional surfaces and the the ATF is specifically formulated so it does not hold these in suspension as is the case with motor.

[wwest]

West, probably because of the rear wheel drive and no transaxle with weird power takeoffs. And some Lexus engineer that didn't know what the devil he was doing when trying to take off the shelf Camry components and put them on a heavier vehicle with AWD.

It is my personal suspicion that over the long term, ~35,000 miles in my case, the viscous fluid within the PTO begins to congeal thereby resulting in some level of continuous locking of the center diff'l. If the diff'l tends to lock when it should not then the 90 weight lubricating oil in the PTO will begin to overheat due to the additional driveline stress.

A few years ago my son-in-law happened to put the wrong size tires on the front of his MY2000 Chryler T&C AWD minivan. They were going skiing and he wanted to be able to fit, use, the tire chains he had bought for the factory tire/wheel combination. Within about fifty miles the ring gear within the PTO began to shed teeth. The best way I can describe just how much, to what level, the 90 weight in that PTO was overheated is by explaining why the gas company was around here with their "sniffer" a few days after the old PTO went into the garbage container.

Apparently the gas company had gotten several calls complaining of a horrid odor around the neighborhood.

If the VC on the RX300 should begin to congeal after ~35,000 miles then the result is inevitable.

Which reminds me, maybe I should go home tonight and open the PTO's 90 weight fill plug and check the odor of the 90 weight in there.

But no, really, I think the fault lies with the sum of many small engineering errors.

A) The firmware switch to AGL, Aggressive Shift Logic. For city stop and go driving that would likely double the number of times the transaxle changes gears for a specific distance.

B) The (apparent) fact that a portion of the ATF remains within the diff'l "sump" and is not readily circulated to the main transaxle case where it would be pumped through the ATF cooling system.

C) The extra heating of the ATF within the diff'l case as a result of the VC being heated from disparate front to rear driveline rotational speeds.

I fully suspect that by mid to late 2000 the engineers had put two and two together and knew why the RX300 transaxles were beginning to fail prematurely. So the temporary fix was to adapt the ML320 AWD system of braking to allocate, apportion, engine torque front to rear and side to side. I was told that this was why the mechanical LSD was removed from the option list for 2001 and later models. Every RX buyer was to now get one, abet a virtual one, for "free".

I suspect that had they gone ahead and also removed the VC back in 2001 as they finally did for the RX330 then my ATF wouldn't have looked and smelled burned at 35,000 miles.

[lenore]

West, the LSD was an option on my vehicle, and mine does have that option. Are you saying it was eliminated completely, or is on every vehicle with AWD? I guess I dont understand your statement. By the way West I did switch to synthetic in the rear and front assemblies just recently. Is that going to help due to the Synthetic capabilities to handle temperature extremes?

[wwest]

West, the LSD was an option on my vehicle, and mine does have that option. Are you saying it was eliminated completely, or is on every vehicle with AWD? I guess I dont understand your statement. By the way West I did switch to synthetic in the rear and front assemblies just recently. Is that going to help due to the Synthetic capabilities to handle temperature extremes?

As I understand it with the introduction of the 2001 models the "mechanical" LSD option was deleted.

I was told that the VSC/Trac system in my 2001 had a mode wherein it used braking to simulate, virtualize, an LSD. It was my understanding at the time that in purchasing the 2001 AWD RX300 I had acquired a vehicle with virtual LSDs at the front, center, and rear diff'ls.

From the way the online repair manual reads, other than engine oil, I would not suggest anything other than the specific fluids recommend by Toyota/Lexus.

[lenore]

yes i understand the fluids, lexus only recommends GL5 standard which the Synthetic met. Thanks for the info, maybe the LSD is the killing point on my wifes LExus. Yet another unknown.

[Antebios]

I'm going to SCREAM!! So today on my way to work my transmission is acting funny, I barely make it there. I tried to make it to a repair shop during lunch time, but died a few miles away. I get home and do some research and I find that TONS of people have had the same problem.

I have a 1999 RX300 with about 75k miles, and then this happens. I made sure I followed the manual maintenance schedule. I've been told it will be $7,000 for a new transmission or I can go for a used or rebuild it for less than half of the cost.

Do I have any recourse? What is Lexus's manufacturer warranty?

And here I was thinking that I had a very reliable vehicle that I was going to keep for a long while and then get a second "fun" Mini Cooper.

Sincerely,

Depressed in Houston

[bluestu]

I'm going to SCREAM!! So today on my way to work my transmission is acting funny, I barely make it there. I tried to make it to a repair shop during lunch time, but died a few miles away. I get home and do some research and I find that TONS of people have had the same problem.

I have a 1999 RX300 with about 75k miles, and then this happens. I made sure I followed the manual maintenance schedule. I've been told it will be $7,000 for a new transmission or I can go for a used or rebuild it for less than half of the cost.

Do I have any recourse? What is Lexus's manufacturer warranty?

And here I was thinking that I had a very reliable vehicle that I was going to keep for a long while and then get a second "fun" Mini Cooper.

Sincerely,

Depressed in Houston

I'm very sorry to hear about your car. Did you ever have your transmission serviced? Transmissions don't maintain themselves, and very few AWD transmissions make it to 100k without servicing. Actually, we conducted a poll on this forum a few months back, and about 20% (7 out of 30+) of the forum members reported experiencing transmission failures. Like you, they initially joined this forum for the same reason. Several of the failures were on the FWD model. I'm sure some of the transmissions were just lemons, but others probably failed from improper servicing and mixing fluids.

I own 2 RX300s with almost 100k, and the transmissions on both cars shift like new. I have always had them completely flushed every 15k and use only synthetic fluid. There are 4 or 5 forum members that think I have bought in to the flush scam, but I am convinced that I am having the transmissions serviced properly. I have the cars to back it up, and they have premature replacement transmissions. I know I am going to catch hell for saying that, but it's true. Prepare for the onslaught.