Looking For Some Direction..........

[skylolow]

Well lately I go out to my car and nothing but click click click when turning the key. Then all of a sudden it turns right over. Doesn't even hesistate or anything. Seems like in the morning after sitting over night is when this problem really occurs bad. Sometimes it takes 15 turns of the key until it starts up. When the car is warm never had problem......until recently. Now sometimes when the car is warm it starts normal and sometimes it takes a few turns of the key. I started by replacing the battery and cleaning up any corrision that was on the terminals and connectors. Well that didn't help. About a year and half ago I replaced the starter(which as anyone who has done that knows that is no fun). So I'm hoping that the starter isn't the problem. When the starter went you could tell it hesitated to turn the motor over, its not doing that now.

Any suggestions on what to test or if anyone else has had this problem and what solved it????

[branshew]

Check all of your wires to make sure nothing is broken or cracked anywhere and that all of the connections are solid. Have your relay tested. Check your alternator.

[skylolow]

Well I would imange the alternator is fine since I have no other electrical issues and its not that the battery isn't being charged. I also don't believe it would be the relay since I get the clicking noise from the starter. Cause what I'm lead to believe is that if the relay is shot you wouldn't get the clicking sound from the starter.

It just seems like a bad connection in the starter. Motor turns over instantly when it all connects. Its just weird that it just clicks over and over and then bam all of a sudden it starts. Which is why I'm worried if I replace the starter it won't solve the problem. I know usually when starter is on the fritz it will sound weak or you will get flat spots on it where it connects but not long enough to start the car, basically cranks once and then nothing and you turn it again and it starts or repeats the previous cycle until it starts.

I'm leaning more and more to the starter being the problem or being the solenoid connected with the starter, which means replacing the starter. I just don't want to waste a day fixing it again after only about 18 months ago I replaced it.

Does anyone have any other ideas of what would cause this?????

[nc211]

Ahhh....welcome to the one and only "official" recall issued by Lexus for the LS400....the starter...I'm not sure if your 97' would qualify for it, but my 95 did, and the starter was replaced under the recall by the previous owner. I'll try and find the recall notice TSB in my files for ya'.

Edit: Opps, reread your original posting....you've already replaced the starter...my bad...

Well I would imange the alternator is fine since I have no other electrical issues and its not that the battery isn't being charged. I also don't believe it would be the relay since I get the clicking noise from the starter. Cause what I'm lead to believe is that if the relay is shot you wouldn't get the clicking sound from the starter.

It just seems like a bad connection in the starter. Motor turns over instantly when it all connects. Its just weird that it just clicks over and over and then bam all of a sudden it starts. Which is why I'm worried if I replace the starter it won't solve the problem. I know usually when starter is on the fritz it will sound weak or you will get flat spots on it where it connects but not long enough to start the car, basically cranks once and then nothing and you turn it again and it starts or repeats the previous cycle until it starts.

I'm leaning more and more to the starter being the problem or being the solenoid connected with the starter, which means replacing the starter. I just don't want to waste a day fixing it again after only about 18 months ago I replaced it.

Does anyone have any other ideas of what would cause this?????

[Threadcutter]

Well I would imange the alternator is fine since I have no other electrical issues and its not that the battery isn't being charged. I also don't believe it would be the relay since I get the clicking noise from the starter. Cause what I'm lead to believe is that if the relay is shot you wouldn't get the clicking sound from the starter.

It just seems like a bad connection in the starter. Motor turns over instantly when it all connects. Its just weird that it just clicks over and over and then bam all of a sudden it starts. Which is why I'm worried if I replace the starter it won't solve the problem. I know usually when starter is on the fritz it will sound weak or you will get flat spots on it where it connects but not long enough to start the car, basically cranks once and then nothing and you turn it again and it starts or repeats the previous cycle until it starts.

I'm leaning more and more to the starter being the problem or being the solenoid connected with the starter, which means replacing the starter. I just don't want to waste a day fixing it again after only about 18 months ago I replaced it.

Does anyone have any other ideas of what would cause this?????

Sky:

It just seems like a bad connection in the starter.

I think you're on the right track. Check out this e-Bay listing. He's got what he calls the "Clicker-fixer". Sounds logical anyway.

Clicker-fixer

The ugly part about this is that your starter will have to come out to use this repair kit.

[skylolow]

Yep.......Threadcutter, I think thats exactly my problem. Do you know if Lexus ever made some kind fix for this? Thicker copper or something. I do alot idleing and starting(from my job), I'm thinking the heat may be breaking down the copper quicker then normal. All I know is I'm not looking forward to doing this job again.

[Threadcutter]

Yep.......Threadcutter, I think thats exactly my problem. Do you know if Lexus ever made some kind fix for this? Thicker copper or something. I do alot idleing and starting(from my job), I'm thinking the heat may be breaking down the copper quicker then normal. All I know is I'm not looking forward to doing this job again.

sky:

To be honest, I've never looked to see if they've come up with a "fix". It strikes me that there probably aren't that many outright failures, they just "wear out" in a fairly reasonable amount of time. You may just be one of the "unlucky" ones.

I think you're right about heat "softening" the copper. Every time an electrical current is passed through two contacts closing, an arc is generated and a small amount of copper is "vaporized". As more copper is vaporized, carbon is also generated as a by-product of the arcing. This carbon increases the "contact resistance" and the end result is that there is even more destruction of the contact surfaces. Sooner or later, there isn't enough copper remaining to consistently make good contact. The wear is primarily electrical in nature, not mechanical. It's kind of the chicken & the egg argument, but suffice it to say, if there were no current flowing through the contacts when they closed, the contacts would last (almost) for ever.

For $20 to $30, I might be inclined to get a hold of a Denso reman starter, put one of the "Clicker fixers" in it & install it. Downside is if it doesn't work better than what Denso supplies (entirely possible), then you're back into the engine sooner. I dunno............roll the dice?...............

[oohryry]

Yep.......Threadcutter, I think thats exactly my problem. Do you know if Lexus ever made some kind fix for this? Thicker copper or something. I do alot idleing and starting(from my job), I'm thinking the heat may be breaking down the copper quicker then normal. All I know is I'm not looking forward to doing this job again.

My LS400 is the first starter I ever had to replace in any vehicle I have ever had. I believe you are right about the heat. Do you notice that your engine is very hot after driving. Sometimes I can't even check the oil dip stick because it is so hot to the touch. I've never had a vehicle where the dip stick handle is too hot to touch no matter how far I drove. It's entirely too hot inside the engine compartment. That's probably what's causing all of the oil gelling problems they have been having. I switched to Valvoline semi-synthetic and it works a lot better than conventional 5W-30.

[Threadcutter]

Yep.......Threadcutter, I think thats exactly my problem. Do you know if Lexus ever made some kind fix for this? Thicker copper or something. I do alot idleing and starting(from my job), I'm thinking the heat may be breaking down the copper quicker then normal. All I know is I'm not looking forward to doing this job again.

My LS400 is the first starter I ever had to replace in any vehicle I have ever had. I believe you are right about the heat. Do you notice that your engine is very hot after driving. Sometimes I can't even check the oil dip stick because it is so hot to the touch. I've never had a vehicle where the dip stick handle is too hot to touch no matter how far I drove. It's entirely too hot inside the engine compartment. That's probably what's causing all of the oil gelling problems they have been having. I switched to Valvoline semi-synthetic and it works a lot better than conventional 5W-30.

oohryry:

I'm not sure that I've ever had to replace a starter before either. I guess I haven't really spent much time or attention to see just how hot my engine gets. I look at the guages frequently while driving, but I haven't made a point of raising the hood right after I come to a stop.

Someone smarter than me said in another post that one of the reasons that the 400 is so quiet was because of all the sound deadening & insulation. The insulation traps heat, which means that it will take longer for the engine to cool down. They also mentioned aerodynamics like the "Engine Under Cover", which will restrict airflow in the upward direction, which will also lengthen the amount of time it takes the engine to cool down.

But having said all of this, I'm having a hard time getting my arms around the idea that your car seems to run "normal", but at the same time, runs "hotter" than everyone else's; the end result being "dead" starters.

What year is your LS?

Have you checked your thermostat to see what temperature rating it is?

Have you ever replaced your power steering pump?

Have you ever had to replace your alternator because of a P/S pump leak?

How old is the alternator that is in the vehicle presently?

Did you replace the battery at the same time as the alternator?

Have you had your charging system fully checked?

Usually, electrical contacts "burn out" prematurely due to higher than normal/nominal current through the contacts. Higher currents are a result of lower than normal/nominal voltage. It could be that your alternator is not putting out enough voltage, but it just hasn't totally died yet.........Nah, couldn't be.......It wouldn't last 12 - 18 months.

Have you taken it into the Service area of the Stealer and asked them what they think (other than they think they'd like to take a dive into your wallet)?

[j.barleycorn]

Threadcutter-

I had to jump in and let you know I appreciated the quote in your signature. One of my all time favorite movies.

Also, the only car I have experienced a too-hot engine compartment is my 1967 GTO. It has a non-stock 455 in it and it puts out alot of heat. You can't come near the engine even after a 10 minute warm up at idle. But it sure loves a nice cool Spring day, as it has a functional ram-air hood.

[nc211]

WOW !!! Now that's a sweet car!

[Threadcutter]

Threadcutter-

I had to jump in and let you know I appreciated the quote in your signature. One of my all time favorite movies.

Also, the only car I have experienced a too-hot engine compartment is my 1967 GTO. It has a non-stock 455 in it and it puts out alot of heat. You can't come near the engine even after a 10 minute warm up at idle. But it sure loves a nice cool Spring day, as it has a functional ram-air hood.

MR. Barleycorn:

I am VERY IMPRESSED!

I'm still not sure how I got ole' Foghorn hooked up with "Jack ripper", but I tripped across the Looney Tunes site about the same time as the Dr. Strangelove site...........it just seemed to be such a natural fit. I completely lost it, I was laughing so hard......

I loved the Looney Tunes cartoons as a kid (stil do, to be honest) & "the Dr." is still my all time favorite movie. If anyone has not seen Dr. Strangelove, I cannot recommend it highly enough.

BTW.......

It has a non-stock 455 in it and it puts out alot of heat.

Uhhh.........You seem to be saying this in the present tense as though you currently posess this Beast?.............

[j.barleycorn]

Thanks NC...

and Threadcutter: yep, I still have the car. I bought it as a fixer-upper driver a few years ago, and have done enough to drive it "locally", but I confess I would need to spend some time on it to make it a complete pleasure to own. It is fun to drive and it blows away anything that has challenged it.

Because I don't have a lot of hobby time available to me, and because of the long commute I "enjoy" every work day, I bought the Lexus and am slowly learning to get it tweaked before returning attention to the goat. I have driven the GTO to work a couple of times (when premium gas was $1.50), but now it would cost me $30 for the round trip! Nothing like 11 miles to the gallon, highway!

I second the hearty recommendation for LOC members to rent Dr. Strangelove! This movie defines the Dark Comedy genre. Peter Sellers was a genius, and for those who only associate George C. Scott with "Patton", you need to see him in Dr. Strangelove... he was hilarious.

Oh, and if anyone is just dying to own a 1988 Nova (Toyota drive train) with <40,000 original miles and 40 MPG, it is for sale. I also plan on trading the Honda this year, so that is up for grabs, too.