Transmission Has Failed At 99k!

[lenore]

Both dealerships in Sacramento Area have had a lot of tranny failures according to the mechanics I spoke to. the mechanic told me he had changed five himself. Note he said in the AWD only though. Maybe the California summer heat, and slow commute mileages are the difference.

[wwest]

Okay, rlin78, so I wasn't explicit enough.

What I meant to say was more than 5 quarts of fluid THAT REMAINED WITHIN THE TRANSAXLE and did not indicate an overfill.

Using your method some one could readily "add" 100 quarts.

[wwest]

My 2001 AWD RX300's transaxle hasn't yet failed but I will say I have very little doubt that it will fail before I get to 100,000 miles.

A vehicle that doesn't require any ATF maintainance procedures for the life of the vehicle to have burnt ATF fluid at 40,000 something is very WRONG.

IMMHO were Toyota a truly honest and forthwright company they would have long ago stepped up to the plate and notified owners of the problem and the need to modify the transaxle maintenance procedures. Even better would be to agree to cover the cost of unexpected ATF drain and fill.

[rlin78]

Okay, rlin78, so I wasn't explicit enough.

What I meant to say was more than 5 quarts of fluid THAT REMAINED WITHIN THE TRANSAXLE and did not indicate an overfill.

Using your method some one could readily "add" 100 quarts.

←

West, the whole point is to flush out the old ATF and replace it with new, right? I used my method and was able to replace most of the fluid in the Torque Converter. I don't expect to collect the $1000, just thought I would get a laugh out of it.

[wwest]

And MY point was/is that if you drain 5 quarts there is very little, or NO ATF left in the torque converter!

I don't pretend to know why this is the case, previously I always had to remove a drain plug in the torque (Ford) converter to be sure of draining all of the ATF.

Have torque converters become a LOT smaller with the advent of the more precision CNC machining of the turbine blades, etc, and use of lockup clutches? The space "allocated" for the torque converter in my 01 RX isn't nearly the size of the one in my 84 T-bird.

[bluestu]

Both dealerships in Sacramento Area have had a lot of tranny failures according to the mechanics I spoke to.  the mechanic told me he had changed five himself.  Note he said in the AWD only though.  Maybe the California summer heat, and slow commute mileages are the difference.

←

I would change the fluid every 15k running in that kind of heat. There are a lot more people living in California than the mountains of Western NC, but I do see RX300s everywhere. Maybe driving up and down hills all day and the high altitude is more suitable for the RX. Maybe California drivers abuse their cars downshifting from 80 mph on the highway and performing the 0-60 test at every stop. Oh yeah, anyone who tows with an RX300 should expect to replace the transmission frequently. Definitely not a car for towing.

[monarch]

I think Lexus is scaming everyone by trying to suggest that their Type IV fluid is good for the life of the transmission.

←

On Lexus's website, lexus.com, Lexus has an "Owner FAQ" with hundreds of answers to hundreds of questions. Here's one question / answer pertaining to transmission fluid:

Transmission fluid

Question

How long can transmission fluid last?

Lexus's Answer

"If a vehicle is driven under light usage, the transmission fluid may last 60,000 miles or longer. The 2004 LS, GS, and LX models introduced "WS" transmission fluid, which may last the life of the vehicle."

So as you can see Lexus is not claiming "Type IV fluid is good for the life of the transmission" but only that it MAY last 60,000 if the vehicle is driven under light usage.

Every RX300 Scheduled Maintenance Guide booklet says the fluid level should be checked every 30,000 miles. The factory service manual goes one step further and says the fluid condition should be inspected at that interval as well and changed if it should signs of deterioration.

I agree the RX300 Scheduled Maintenance Guide booklet is not real clear about when fluid changes are needed, but when Lexus dealers and the Lexus website try to clarify matters for owners and try to pursuade them to do a pan drain and refill every 15K or total fluid replacement every 30K instead of being appreciative, the owners think the dealer is trying to rip them off and make money on a service that isn't needed. So the Lexus dealer is caught between a rock and a hard place.

[RX in NC]

Sorry monarch, but your feeble suggestion of checking the Lexus website or talking to a Lexus dealer does not get Lexus off the hook in terms of attempting to change what is clearly printed in black and white in the RX300 owners manual. Very few owners go to lexus.com and many owners choose to have their vehicles serviced by independent garages, some even during the warranty period, and therefore don't go to Lexus service departments.

If Lexus was serious about revising the transmission maintenance requirements for the RX300 to drain-and-fills every 15,000 miles or complete fluid replacement every 30,000 miles as you state, then they would notify every registered owner by mail as well as announce the revised program through the news media.

The RX300 owners manual clearly states that under normal conditions (meaning no racing, no dusty dirt roads, no towing, and no wanton abuse by trying to take this delicate flower off-road like a 4x4), the factory-filled Type T-IV fluid is good for the life of the vehicle. That simply isn't true, and every owner should have been notified by a letter containing a revised transmission fluid maintenance schedule years ago.

But Lexus will not do this because it will confirm what many of us already know about the RX300 all-wheel-drive transmission. Lexus has thus far been successful in sweeping this issue under the rug and dealing with individual transmission failures privately under the radar. It's far cheaper for them with limited negative publicity that way, but many uninformed RX300 owners who suffer premature transmission failures and aren't aware of the information that can be obtained through forums such as this one get hosed in the meantime.

If Lexus had stepped up to the plate originally, I might have been willing to try them again with a "new and improved" SUV down the road. But not now. Once this RX300 runs its course, the Lexus marque will be banished from our garage.

[mikey00]

I think Lexus is scaming everyone by trying to suggest that their Type IV fluid is good for the life of the transmission.

←

On Lexus's website, lexus.com, Lexus has an "Owner FAQ" with hundreds of answers to hundreds of questions. Here's one question / answer pertaining to transmission fluid:

Transmission fluid

Question

How long can transmission fluid last?

Lexus's Answer

"If a vehicle is driven under light usage, the transmission fluid may last 60,000 miles or longer. The 2004 LS, GS, and LX models introduced "WS" transmission fluid, which may last the life of the vehicle."

So as you can see Lexus is not claiming "Type IV fluid is good for the life of the transmission" but only that it MAY last 60,000 if the vehicle is driven under light usage.

Every RX300 Scheduled Maintenance Guide booklet says the fluid level should be checked every 30,000 miles. The factory service manual goes one step further and says the fluid condition should be inspected at that interval as well and changed if it should signs of deterioration.

I agree the RX300 Scheduled Maintenance Guide booklet is not real clear about when fluid changes are needed, but when Lexus dealers and the Lexus website try to clarify matters for owners and try to pursuade them to do a pan drain and refill every 15K or total fluid replacement every 30K instead of being appreciative, the owners think the dealer is trying to rip them off and make money on a service that isn't needed. So the Lexus dealer is caught between a rock and a hard place.

←

Why then did Lexus go the extra step of labeling every ATF dipstick with "No need to change ATF under normal driving conditions"

[lenore]

Thank you RX, very well said, I like you ,like the RX300 for driving, but feel as you do the Lexus Automobile Company did not stand behind their product. If I had been for warned to change the fluid at 15k I would have. Monarch is on another agenda, and has not been struck by the $4300 bill to replace something that should not have failed so early. Now I am committed to give out a survey to Lexus owners, I was thinking If I used postcards with self stamped and very short questions to the point I would get a better response. I will give feedback in the future. Maybe Monarch will see a card on his freinds RX in the future, since he is from my area.

[bluestu]

Lenore, you might better serve the Lexus Community by attaching a note to their cars saying to have their transmission fluid changed every 15k. Actually, Lexus should send out a memo to it's owners advising them to do so, although their are several other factors that can contribute to early transmission failure such as; towing heavy loads, mixing regular fluid with TIV, and harsh driving.

[ArnoldsLex]

Lenore, you might better serve the Lexus Community by attaching a note to their cars saying to have their transmission fluid changed every 15k. Actually, Lexus should send out a memo to it's owners advising them to do so, although their are several other factors that can contribute to early transmission failure such as; towing heavy loads, mixing regular fluid with TIV, and harsh driving.

←

This should have been published so mechanics could tell those like myself as second owners these nuances about our cars.

Update: When it started to fail I turned around an drove back to my garage. This sucker was so screwed up and would not go into reverse and locked up and had to be dragged out of the garage! We squirted silicon spray behind the tires and onto his flat bed. I think this is worst than clutches. I ask the trans guy if I could take pics so I will have proof so if buy any chance I can get a refund if this becomes a recall or class action suit. I may post them for you all.

In the rebuild we are thinking of increasing the line pressure a bit to see if this helps the trans speed up its shifts and put a larger trans cooler on it. Also using the filter and not just the screen.

What do you guys think about doing this?

[wwest]

The line pressure is currently control by an electric solenoid. The engine/transaxle ECU drives the solenoid with a PWM, pulse width modulated, signal with a duty cycle used to "linearly" control the solenoid plunger position and thus the line pressure.

Did it, has it, occurred to you to disconnect the battery for a short period just in cause the ECU has decided the transaxle isn't useable...??

Meanwhile some of us are VERY interested in hearing what you find wrong inside that transaxle.

[RX in NC]

Please keep us posted on your findings and how you decide to proceed with repairs. This could turn out to be valuable information for many folks who may suffer from similar circumstances in the near or distant future.

Although I'd really like to see a recall or a class-action against Lexus for the inherent weaknesses in the AWD RX300 transmission, I don't believe that the likelihood for either one is very high at this point in time. Lexus continues to do an effective job keeping this ugly little problem behind closed doors.

[mjob777]

New member posting....

120K miles and the trans is toast! Talking to the dealer later today to see what he suggests. He is stating $5K to replace the transmission. Car was always serviced by the dealer, never towed anything or ran up a steep hill, Florida is nice and flat ;)

This is very disappointing and frankly unacceptable. I typically run cars well past 150K miles and have never had to replace a trans in anything from a Ford, Honda, Toyota, VW, or a BMW. Likely to be my last Lexus.

Appreciate all the insights and will see where this goes.....

Michael.

[stingo]

New member posting....

120K miles and the trans is toast! Talking to the dealer later today to see what he suggests. He is stating $5K to replace the transmission. Car was always serviced by the dealer, never towed anything or ran up a steep hill, Florida is nice and flat ;)

This is very disappointing and frankly unacceptable. I typically run cars well past 150K miles and have never had to replace a trans in anything from a Ford, Honda, Toyota, VW, or a BMW. Likely to be my last Lexus.

Appreciate all the insights and will see where this goes.....

Michael.

[stingo]

2005 rx330 awd has 72k miles bought from toyota leasing w/38k. noise from drivetrain at about 68k has progressively gotten louder. appears to be trans noise(whining/grinding sound). previously owned 200 rx300 awd until 109k miles only replaced 1 headlamp bulb and one taillamp bulb.

should never expect transmission problem at 60k miles. am greatly disappointed in the quality of the 2005 compared to the 2000 model. from what i have read in this forum, lexus is not ready to step up and fix this problem. several appearance flaws on this vehicle, but the trans problem overshadows these. i'll contact both the local lexus dealer(50+ miles away) and lexus corporate after jan 1 2009. no can do anything today.

BTW trans fluid looks new and is up to full on the stick.

[mnsa]

I've already talked to the Toyota and Lexus shops in my area and they haven't heard of anyone having transmission problems with their RX300s. Maybe you should do a survey.

So, if I'm understanding correctly, I should not expect this tranny issue with my 2000 2WD RX 300?

[lenore]

probably not, but I would definetly give the tranny some fluid changes, it is cheap insurance....

[radioactiveboyscout]

Not to rub salt in any wounds but my wife drives a 99 AWD RX300 and I have been amazed at how reliable her car has been. I installed a class 3 hitch on it about 4 years ago after downsizing my daily driver to a small car. I needed something I could use to tow. Since then I have abused the hell out of that car towing a fully loaded 3500 pound trailer through the mountains multiple times. Drove it between MI and CA towing a trailer once. I was frankly amazed at how well it handled the trailer. I think I was averaging about 13 mpg on these tows to tell you how hard I pushed it. Never had any problems with the transmission other than the annoying whine that shows up during cold weather. The car has about 140k on it now. The maintenance I've done was a complete drain at around 70k. I also will sometimes pull a few quarts out after a hard tow and replace it with a few quarts of new fluid. I do this because I firmly believe that doing a complete change of fluid can sometimes "shock" older transmissions resulting in more harm than good. I prefer to thin out the bad old stuff rather than put in a bunch of new. Someone said it right earlier - its cheap insurance. Hope there are other owners out there that haven't had all the troubles you guys have had. With fingers crossed I continue. Let you know if my luck changes anytime soon.

[artbuc]

Not to rub salt in any wounds but my wife drives a 99 AWD RX300 and I have been amazed at how reliable her car has been. I installed a class 3 hitch on it about 4 years ago after downsizing my daily driver to a small car. I needed something I could use to tow. Since then I have abused the hell out of that car towing a fully loaded 3500 pound trailer through the mountains multiple times. Drove it between MI and CA towing a trailer once. I was frankly amazed at how well it handled the trailer. I think I was averaging about 13 mpg on these tows to tell you how hard I pushed it. Never had any problems with the transmission other than the annoying whine that shows up during cold weather. The car has about 140k on it now. The maintenance I've done was a complete drain at around 70k. I also will sometimes pull a few quarts out after a hard tow and replace it with a few quarts of new fluid. I do this because I firmly believe that doing a complete change of fluid can sometimes "shock" older transmissions resulting in more harm than good. I prefer to thin out the bad old stuff rather than put in a bunch of new. Someone said it right earlier - its cheap insurance. Hope there are other owners out there that haven't had all the troubles you guys have had. With fingers crossed I continue. Let you know if my luck changes anytime soon.

Wow! So, the mystery continues. You would think this type of harsh service would surely cause an early failure from the weak planetary gear set and/or other (if there are other) design flaws. What makes this trans different from the many which failed prematurely at only half of this mileage???

[mikey00]

Not to rub salt in any wounds but my wife drives a 99 AWD RX300 and I have been amazed at how reliable her car has been. I installed a class 3 hitch on it about 4 years ago after downsizing my daily driver to a small car. I needed something I could use to tow. Since then I have abused the hell out of that car towing a fully loaded 3500 pound trailer through the mountains multiple times. Drove it between MI and CA towing a trailer once. I was frankly amazed at how well it handled the trailer. I think I was averaging about 13 mpg on these tows to tell you how hard I pushed it. Never had any problems with the transmission other than the annoying whine that shows up during cold weather. The car has about 140k on it now. The maintenance I've done was a complete drain at around 70k. I also will sometimes pull a few quarts out after a hard tow and replace it with a few quarts of new fluid. I do this because I firmly believe that doing a complete change of fluid can sometimes "shock" older transmissions resulting in more harm than good. I prefer to thin out the bad old stuff rather than put in a bunch of new. Someone said it right earlier - its cheap insurance. Hope there are other owners out there that haven't had all the troubles you guys have had. With fingers crossed I continue. Let you know if my luck changes anytime soon.

Are you original owner?

[radioactiveboyscout]

Not to rub salt in any wounds but my wife drives a 99 AWD RX300 and I have been amazed at how reliable her car has been. I installed a class 3 hitch on it about 4 years ago after downsizing my daily driver to a small car. I needed something I could use to tow. Since then I have abused the hell out of that car towing a fully loaded 3500 pound trailer through the mountains multiple times. Drove it between MI and CA towing a trailer once. I was frankly amazed at how well it handled the trailer. I think I was averaging about 13 mpg on these tows to tell you how hard I pushed it. Never had any problems with the transmission other than the annoying whine that shows up during cold weather. The car has about 140k on it now. The maintenance I've done was a complete drain at around 70k. I also will sometimes pull a few quarts out after a hard tow and replace it with a few quarts of new fluid. I do this because I firmly believe that doing a complete change of fluid can sometimes "shock" older transmissions resulting in more harm than good. I prefer to thin out the bad old stuff rather than put in a bunch of new. Someone said it right earlier - its cheap insurance. Hope there are other owners out there that haven't had all the troubles you guys have had. With fingers crossed I continue. Let you know if my luck changes anytime soon.

Are you original owner?

No. My wife bought it with about 50k on it. She bought it before we were married so I have to go on what she says. She said the Lexus rep told her the previous owner kept a meticulous service history. I will have to check the transmission tag to see if it matches the id on the door jam.

[mikey00]

Not to rub salt in any wounds but my wife drives a 99 AWD RX300 and I have been amazed at how reliable her car has been. I installed a class 3 hitch on it about 4 years ago after downsizing my daily driver to a small car. I needed something I could use to tow. Since then I have abused the hell out of that car towing a fully loaded 3500 pound trailer through the mountains multiple times. Drove it between MI and CA towing a trailer once. I was frankly amazed at how well it handled the trailer. I think I was averaging about 13 mpg on these tows to tell you how hard I pushed it. Never had any problems with the transmission other than the annoying whine that shows up during cold weather. The car has about 140k on it now. The maintenance I've done was a complete drain at around 70k. I also will sometimes pull a few quarts out after a hard tow and replace it with a few quarts of new fluid. I do this because I firmly believe that doing a complete change of fluid can sometimes "shock" older transmissions resulting in more harm than good. I prefer to thin out the bad old stuff rather than put in a bunch of new. Someone said it right earlier - its cheap insurance. Hope there are other owners out there that haven't had all the troubles you guys have had. With fingers crossed I continue. Let you know if my luck changes anytime soon.

Are you original owner?

No. My wife bought it with about 50k on it. She bought it before we were married so I have to go on what she says. She said the Lexus rep told her the previous owner kept a meticulous service history. I will have to check the transmission tag to see if it matches the id on the door jam.

I bet the trans was replaced or rebuild using the upgraded parts during the original owners period. The tag should still match if it was rebuilt.

"Lexus rep" sounds like you mean the salesman, in which case all previous owners always kept meticulous service records. I am still waiting for the car salesman that tells me that the prevoius owner really didn't take care of this car

[radioactiveboyscout]

Not to rub salt in any wounds but my wife drives a 99 AWD RX300 and I have been amazed at how reliable her car has been. I installed a class 3 hitch on it about 4 years ago after downsizing my daily driver to a small car. I needed something I could use to tow. Since then I have abused the hell out of that car towing a fully loaded 3500 pound trailer through the mountains multiple times. Drove it between MI and CA towing a trailer once. I was frankly amazed at how well it handled the trailer. I think I was averaging about 13 mpg on these tows to tell you how hard I pushed it. Never had any problems with the transmission other than the annoying whine that shows up during cold weather. The car has about 140k on it now. The maintenance I've done was a complete drain at around 70k. I also will sometimes pull a few quarts out after a hard tow and replace it with a few quarts of new fluid. I do this because I firmly believe that doing a complete change of fluid can sometimes "shock" older transmissions resulting in more harm than good. I prefer to thin out the bad old stuff rather than put in a bunch of new. Someone said it right earlier - its cheap insurance. Hope there are other owners out there that haven't had all the troubles you guys have had. With fingers crossed I continue. Let you know if my luck changes anytime soon.

Are you original owner?

No. My wife bought it with about 50k on it. She bought it before we were married so I have to go on what she says. She said the Lexus rep told her the previous owner kept a meticulous service history. I will have to check the transmission tag to see if it matches the id on the door jam.

I bet the trans was replaced or rebuild using the upgraded parts during the original owners period. The tag should still match if it was rebuilt.

"Lexus rep" sounds like you mean the salesman, in which case all previous owners always kept meticulous service records. I am still waiting for the car salesman that tells me that the prevoius owner really didn't take care of this car

I misspoke. She did not buy it through the Lexus dealer. She bought it from the owner. The "rep" she spoke with was from the shop she called after the owner let her inspect the service history. She got the vin and called his auto shop to speak with the mechanic. He had no vested interested in the car. Whether or not the transmission is rebuilt, I don't know. Believe what you want but I will be checking because you have peaked my interest. Any idea of the model on the original transmission. I would find it hard to believe that no paper trail would exist for such as there is no reason to hide the work?