lexdog Posted March 10, 2005 Posted March 10, 2005 I was surfing the web and came accross the Amsoil web site. They claim there Synthetic Oil is better then the Mobile 1 Synthetic. Anybody got any opinions ? I myself have only heard of Amsoil I've heard many good things about there oil but have never used it. What do you guys and gals think ? Heres the article. http://www.amsoil.com/performancetests/amsoil_vs_mobil1.aspx
VGR Posted March 10, 2005 Posted March 10, 2005 Surf on over to toyota.com and you'll find out why Toyota thinks synthetic oils offers only marginal benefits compared to natural petroluem oil and NOT worth the extra cost http://www.saber.net/~monarch/faq.jpg Surf on over to the Federal Trade Commission to find out how some oil companies have been sued for lying and exaggerating about the benefits of certain oils and additives they make. Surf the archives of the Lexus Owners Club forum and discover how hundreds of owners of 10-15 year old Lexus's have destroyed their engines by ignoring dashboard warning lights and gauges and modifying their engines with aftermarket parts and fluids like antifreeze. But you won't find a single post in the Lexus Owners Club archives where an owner's engine wore out because they used natural petroleum oil instead of synthetic oil.
mburnickas Posted March 10, 2005 Posted March 10, 2005 I was surfing the web and came accross the Amsoil web site. They claim there Synthetic Oil is better then the Mobile 1 Synthetic. Anybody got any opinions ? I myself have only heard of Amsoil I've heard many good things about there oil but have never used it. What do you guys and gals think ? Heres the article. http://www.amsoil.com/performancetests/amsoil_vs_mobil1.aspx ← What Amsoil and what Mobil. For the most part Mobil is low in TBN and ZDDP. Mobil is not worth the $$$ in my eyes. My last oil TEST using Amsoil after 12K miles blew the doors of Mobil 1 with only 4K miles. This is NOT a knock on Mobil oils; but a guy went 4,000 miles on his ES and I want over 12,000 miles (3X longer then him) on my ES. We then compared results. First one is him (Mobil 1, 10w-30 with 4K miles), next is mine with Amsoil 5w-30 with 12,200 miles) Fe- 5, 11 Cr- 0, 0 Ni-0. 10 Al- 2 ,3 Pb- 6, 10 Cu- 2, 11 Sn- 1, 1 Ag- 0, 0 Ti -0, 0 Si -16, 17 B -125, 27 Na- 6,12 Mo- 44, 1 P- 668, 1161 Zn- 757, 1175 Ca- 2991, 2643 Barium- 0, 0 Mg- 13, 797 TBN- 4.5, 3.3 Our manuals state 7,500 for normal changes. http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153763
mburnickas Posted March 10, 2005 Posted March 10, 2005 Surf on over to toyota.com and you'll find out why Toyota thinks synthetic oils offers only marginal benefits compared to natural petroluem oil and NOT worth the extra cost http://www.saber.net/~monarch/faq.jpg I trust Saber's "data" like a salesman Surf on over to the Federal Trade Commission to find out how some oil companies have been sued for lying and exaggerating about the benefits of certain oils and additives they make. Correct for a group3, NOT true for a group 4 or 5 Surf the archives of the Lexus Owners Club forum and discover how hundreds of owners of 10-15 year old Lexus's have destroyed their engines by ignoring dashboard warning lights and gauges and modifying their engines with aftermarket parts and fluids like antifreeze. But you won't find a single post in the Lexus Owners Club archives where an owner's engine wore out because they used natural petroleum oil instead of synthetic oil. ← I will say this, based on oil numbers, synthetic WILL protect better.
Booyah Posted March 10, 2005 Posted March 10, 2005 MB, 2 TOTALLY differant engines, you cant compare the numbers like you do!!! If you did the comparison bewteen the 2 oils in YOUR motor, then its legit!!!! Plus Mobil has come out with there NEW 15K oil just like Amsoil has. Granted I have been using Amsoil for a couple years, but now have switched over to M-1 15K oil just because its much easier to get at Walmart and its over 2 bucks a QT cheaper (yes I was a dealer). Im going to give it a shot for a while and see what happpens---probably nothing much!
mburnickas Posted March 10, 2005 Posted March 10, 2005 MB, 2 TOTALLY differant engines, you cant compare the numbers like you do!!! The numbers should be close. The delta is too huge. The point here is that the ZDDP in Mobil 1 is poor. Even the un-used (virgin) is not that high. It (un-used) is not even up to my used Amsoil! That is a fact! Again, Mobil's nunbers are not the high in the areas that matter. If you test oil and will know what areas to look for. Also that is weird you say that. I had a Powersroke diesel and compared the same oils in the different engines. Results where very close. Also did the same thing in my Kubota tractor. Again results very close with different engines. Next if the engines vary that much, SPC is not that good with Toyota then. Plus Mobil has come out with there NEW 15K oil just like Amsoil has. Amsoil has a up to 25K and Mobil EP is up to 15K. Again the add pkg leaves more to be desired in my mind (see below for a virgin oil tests). See how low the ZDDP is??????Not good. Granted I have been using Amsoil for a couple years, but now have switched over to M-1 15K oil just because its much easier to get at Walmart and its over 2 bucks a QT cheaper (yes I was a dealer). Im going to give it a shot for a while and see what happpens---probably nothing much! ← hmm that is weird. I get Amsoil ASL (5-w30) for $19 per gallon. Mobil EP is more then that. If you test your oils, there is a diffference. Been testing my oils for about 10-years, Mobil is not back to where it was 20+ years ago! If you know Mobil, you know what I am talking about.
mburnickas Posted March 10, 2005 Posted March 10, 2005 MB, 2 TOTALLY differant engines, you cant compare the numbers like you do!!!If you did the comparison bewteen the 2 oils in YOUR motor, then its legit!!!! Plus Mobil has come out with there NEW 15K oil just like Amsoil has. Granted I have been using Amsoil for a couple years, but now have switched over to M-1 15K oil just because its much easier to get at Walmart and its over 2 bucks a QT cheaper (yes I was a dealer). Im going to give it a shot for a while and see what happpens---probably nothing much! ← Here is your Mobil EP...Nothing really sticks out for about $25 to $28 for a 5 qt pack.
TunedRX300 Posted March 11, 2005 Posted March 11, 2005 Surf on over to toyota.com and you'll find out why Toyota thinks synthetic oils offers only marginal benefits compared to natural petroluem oil and NOT worth the extra cost http://www.saber.net/~monarch/faq.jpg Surf on over to the Federal Trade Commission to find out how some oil companies have been sued for lying and exaggerating about the benefits of certain oils and additives they make. Surf the archives of the Lexus Owners Club forum and discover how hundreds of owners of 10-15 year old Lexus's have destroyed their engines by ignoring dashboard warning lights and gauges and modifying their engines with aftermarket parts and fluids like antifreeze. But you won't find a single post in the Lexus Owners Club archives where an owner's engine wore out because they used natural petroleum oil instead of synthetic oil. ← Most new MBs have syn oil straight from factory, recommended change interval is 10K.
Booyah Posted March 11, 2005 Posted March 11, 2005 Yes, I was using the 0W-30 series 2000 motor oil in my cars! I did the oil samples and they always came back OK and to continue use after 1 year. I always change the oil out---along with using the Amsoil filters at every 6-months.... Maybe Im taking a step backwards, better rethink myself:) Maybe Ill go to the 5W-30, as you say its only 18.XX a gallon much better than the 25.00 for the series 2000
mburnickas Posted March 11, 2005 Posted March 11, 2005 Yes, I was using the 0W-30 series 2000 motor oil in my cars! I did the oil samples and they always came back OK and to continue use after 1 year. I always change the oil out---along with using the Amsoil filters at every 6-months....Maybe Im taking a step backwards, better rethink myself:) Maybe Ill go to the 5W-30, as you say its only 18.XX a gallon much better than the 25.00 for the series 2000 ← The Series 2000 is a great oil. I thought about using there Series 3000 5w-30 HDD oil but then I said why to myself, tests are fine now with there ASL series..and cheaper. If you look at there website, both the Series 200 0w30 and there ASL 5w-30 are very close. The ASL has a lower Noack # and cheaper. Even the pour point is only 5 degrees delta. But that is not the true pumping temp for the oil. Just trying to help and I think you are going backwards. I even thought about using Redline since it is 100% Easter based; but, there do not like the longer drains as they state and there price is too high.
Booyah Posted March 11, 2005 Posted March 11, 2005 Does the series 2000 oil justify the extra cost though?? I mean one is 35K or 1-year the other 25K----I dont come close to either on the mileage aspect of it......
mburnickas Posted March 11, 2005 Posted March 11, 2005 Does the series 2000 oil justify the extra cost though?? I mean one is 35K or 1-year the other 25K----I dont come close to either on the mileage aspect of it...... ← Based on tests I have seen, over the longer drains, the oil will perform better. but if the results are good now why change? If your TBN is lets say 5.0 at 15K what does it do if it is 6.0 at 15K miles with there Series 2000. You do not gain anything. If you wear numbers are really low, why change? Next, unless you have high NOX & OXD, which you can't if you have a high TBN, there is no reason to change, I feel. Extra $$$ not needed. Without see past reports, maybe your motor puts a lot of stress on oil, and maybe not. I know my "sludge engine" on my ES is fine with Amsoil.
monarch Posted March 11, 2005 Posted March 11, 2005 Most new MBs have syn oil straight from factory, recommended change interval is 10K. ← If Yugo's came with synthetic oil straight from factory and a had a recommended change interval of 10,000 miles, would that be justification for a Toyota / Lexus owner to disregard the advice of the Toyota engineers and: a) Switch to synthetic oil before the first recommended oil change interval? B) Exceed Toyotas 6 month, 5,000 mile oil change interval if using synthetic? Mercedes automobiles, like other European makes, do not have a reputation for exceptional reliability and durability so I don't think it's reasonable for an Asian car owner to follow the car care advice of other car makers with lower reliability and durability standards. Historically the Asian car makers have recommended more frequent service intervals than the Americans and Europeans and they have always gone to the trouble and expense of equipping their engine blocks, transmissions, rear axles with convenient drain plugs. Planned obsolesence, not reliability and durability, is a priority of the American and European and European car makers.
TunedRX300 Posted March 11, 2005 Posted March 11, 2005 Most new MBs have syn oil straight from factory, recommended change interval is 10K. ← If Yugo's came with synthetic oil straight from factory and a had a recommended change interval of 10,000 miles, would that be justification for a Toyota / Lexus owner to disregard the advice of the Toyota engineers and: a) Switch to synthetic oil before the first recommended oil change interval? B) Exceed Toyotas 6 month, 5,000 mile oil change interval if using synthetic? Mercedes automobiles, like other European makes, do not have a reputation for exceptional reliability and durability so I don't think it's reasonable for an Asian car owner to follow the car care advice of other car makers with lower reliability and durability standards. Historically the Asian car makers have recommended more frequent service intervals than the Americans and Europeans and they have always gone to the trouble and expense of equipping their engine blocks, transmissions, rear axles with convenient drain plugs. Planned obsolesence, not reliability and durability, is a priority of the American and European and European car makers. ← Hmm...seems you are making a blanket statements "all syn oil is junk", then why Lexus dealers offer syn oil change services?
monarch Posted March 11, 2005 Posted March 11, 2005 Hmm...seems you are making a blanket statements "all syn oil is junk", then why Lexus dealers offer syn oil change services? ← I didn't say "all syn oil is junk" and neither does corporate Toyota / Lexus. Corporate Toyota / Lexus just says the engine wear benefits of synthetic in Toyota / Lexus vehicles are too marginal to justify the extra cost. Lexus dealers are run by Americans with the same profit ahead of quality mentality as your local Buick / Chrysler / Lincoln car dealer. So the service recommendations and practices of a Lexus dealer are not necessarily consistent with the quality ahead of profit philosophy of Corporate Toyota / Lexus.
RX400h Posted March 11, 2005 Posted March 11, 2005 I see this type of argument all the time in the Corvette Forum and I have to remind them that my brother-in-law sold his Toyota van (1st generation) with over 300,000 miles on it. He changed his oil every 5000 miles and used plain ol 5W-30 petroleum-based oil. My point? Nitpicking over two brands of synthetic oil is rediculous. How many miles do you want your engine to last, 500,000? You'll be long buried before you recoup your extra cost. That being said, I must reveal that I use Mobil 1 in my Mazda MX6 GT-Turbo for obvious reasons. Dino oil has a tendency to coke around turbo bearings, something not as likely with synthetic oils. New turbos are NOT inexpensive. My Corvette comes factory-filled with Mobil 1 and I change it every year (5500 miles or less). However, our Nissan Quest uses regular Mobil and its engine has more than 110,000 trouble-free miles on it. The weak link with all synthetic oil engines is the filter, not the oil. If Lexus recommends dino oil and filter changes every 5000 miles, then that's what I'll do. You'd be wise to do the same.
TunedRX300 Posted March 11, 2005 Posted March 11, 2005 Hmm...seems you are making a blanket statements "all syn oil is junk", then why Lexus dealers offer syn oil change services? ← I didn't say "all syn oil is junk" and neither does corporate Toyota / Lexus. Corporate Toyota / Lexus just says the engine wear benefits of synthetic in Toyota / Lexus vehicles are too marginal to justify the extra cost. ← The same "reliable" Toyota/Lexus that designed the RX's tranny to hesitate, forced owners to change tranny oil every 15K?
Lexusfreak Posted March 11, 2005 Posted March 11, 2005 I was surfing the web and came accross the Amsoil web site. They claim there Synthetic Oil is better then the Mobile 1 Synthetic. Anybody got any opinions ? I myself have only heard of Amsoil I've heard many good things about there oil but have never used it. What do you guys and gals think ? Heres the article. http://www.amsoil.com/performancetests/amsoil_vs_mobil1.aspx ← OH NO!! :whistles: Here we go again!! Just a different forum! :chairshot: :cries: I'm staying out of this......this time around everybody lol. ;)
mburnickas Posted March 11, 2005 Posted March 11, 2005 I see this type of argument all the time in the Corvette Forum and I have to remind them that my brother-in-law sold his Toyota van (1st generation) with over 300,000 miles on it. He changed his oil every 5000 miles and used plain ol 5W-30 petroleum-based oil. My point? Nitpicking over two brands of synthetic oil is rediculous. How many miles do you want your engine to last, 500,000? You'll be long buried before you recoup your extra cost. That being said, I must reveal that I use Mobil 1 in my Mazda MX6 GT-Turbo for obvious reasons. Dino oil has a tendency to coke around turbo bearings, something not as likely with synthetic oils. New turbos are NOT inexpensive. My Corvette comes factory-filled with Mobil 1 and I change it every year (5500 miles or less). However, our Nissan Quest uses regular Mobil and its engine has more than 110,000 trouble-free miles on it. The weak link with all synthetic oil engines is the filter, not the oil. If Lexus recommends dino oil and filter changes every 5000 miles, then that's what I'll do. You'd be wise to do the same. ← Been there done that with the filter issue. Is the filter the weak link, you but so far in doing extended drains the filters are just fine (as the wear test show). As noted on the other page, is Mobil good sure but if you want better protection (clear to see) I would not use Mobil. Unless you test the oil, you, the owner, will not see anything unless you are superman.
mburnickas Posted March 11, 2005 Posted March 11, 2005 Do you do the 1-year intervals with your ES? ← 11 to 12 months intervals. Shotting for 15K miles if I can make it in one year. All done with my degree so my miles per day dropped.
TunedRX300 Posted March 11, 2005 Posted March 11, 2005 Navigate around this site you will see oil study on Mobil 1 and Amsoil http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.html http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/amsoil.html http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html
Ericok Posted March 11, 2005 Posted March 11, 2005 My only contribution to this topic: WWCRS. What Would Consumer's Reports Say? :D
monarch Posted March 11, 2005 Posted March 11, 2005 Navigate around this site you will see oil study on Mobil 1 and Amsoilhttp://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.html ← I think that website - like virtually all the synthetic & specialty oil promoting websites - grossly misleads the public and especially Asian car owners. The website says: "We accept that for most people in most cars, regular old "dinosaur juice" mineral-based motor oil will work just fine. We have seen plenty of cars run beyond 150,000 miles and 200,000 miles using regular old "dinosaur juice" mineral-based motor oil stuff as long as the oil is changed regularly. However, not everyone is content with "good enough". Some consider 150,000 miles to be broken-in, and seek to double or triple that vehicle service life." That statement is grossly misleading because it fails to inform the public that countless numbers of Toyota and other Asian car owners have driven 500,000 - 650,000 miles using conventional oil changed every 3000 - 5000 miles: http://www.saber.net/~monarch/cole2.JPG Toyota, of course, knows its engines are engineered to run 600,000 miles on conventional oil and that is likely one reason Toyota says the benefits of synthetic are marginal and not worth the extra cost.
RX400h Posted March 11, 2005 Posted March 11, 2005 Synthetic oil is factory-fill in Corvette, BMW, Mercedes, and Porsche, among others, mainly because of its extended drain interval capability(with a long-life filter, of course). Public perception is that if these manufacturers use it, it must be superior. Certainly, if you purchase any of the aforementioned vehicles as new, you MUST use oils that are approved by the manufacturer. Changing oil, like changing antifreeze, is an inconvenience to most auto consumers, so including long-life oils and antifreezes becomes a great selling point. The ultimate life of an engine is far less of an issue, as most consumers sell their vehicles long before the engines have failed due to wear. BTW, Consumer Reports has recommended that if your vehicle comes from the factory with dino oil, there is little reason to switch over to synthetic.
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