Please Help! Was I "taken" Buying My Es300?

[dockerguy]

Brian, I did a Carfax. It was perfect. No accidents, accuraate mileage, two owners, etc., etc. So...

I looked at a '96 w/142K yesterday that was supposed to be "immaculate". Ha! What a joke. The guy lives in a very exclusive 5-acre minimum lot area, has a gorgeous, huge house; four horses; a huge horse trailer; huge ATV trailer; three dirt bikes; three new pickups; a Honda, etc., etc. Million $+. Needless to say I was disappointed. He commented on how clean mine was and couldn't believe it wasn't maintained. Well, his body and intereror sure as hell weren't! But, he was only asking $6,500.00.

I found a mechanic about ten miles from here that I want to go to this morning to get his opinion and then I'm either taking the car back or getting at least $1,000.00 back to help with the repairs. It's still raining here and this place turns into a Third World country when it rains as all the roads become flooded and getting anywhere is a PITA! All the ski resorts are opening today which will be the first time in history they've opened before Thanksgiving, which I hope is not a prediction of things to come this winter. Ugh.

I feel like morphing into a bear, going into my den for the winter and coming out next April! :)

[Leroy]

I feel sorry for you, we also looked on ebay for a long time and could be in your shoes. We ended up buying a car we found on www.autocartrader.com or cars.com (?) we were looking at so many places.

First I would push to have him buy it back. If it wasn't taken care of you will continue to have problems. Was the oil changed regular? Sounds like you are spending ~$3k on $6k car? I'm sure you would not have spent $9k for the car to begin with but that is what he is trying to make you do. He takes it back or pays to fix it or post negative which isn't much punishment. He bought this car and misrepresented it.

We just bought a 95 with 118k for $5700 (in Lexington) and it appears to be in good shape. There are plenty of cars out there. As an aside, we found certain markets have much better selection and price, especially Lexus. In Indy there are not that many Lexus cars, in Lexington, Cinncinnati, and Chicago there were a lot more and the prices were significantly less. Chicago cars tend to have more rust problems.

[jragosta]

I feel sorry for you, we also looked on ebay for a long time and could be in your shoes.  We ended up buying a car we found on www.autocartrader.com or cars.com (?) we were looking at so many places.

First I would push to have him buy it back.  If it wasn't taken care of you will continue to have problems.  Was the oil changed regular?  Sounds like you are spending ~$3k on $6k car?  I'm sure you would not have spent $9k for the car to begin with but that is what he is trying to make you do.  He takes it back or pays to fix it or post negative which isn't much punishment.  He bought this car and misrepresented it. 

We just bought a 95 with 118k for $5700 (in Lexington) and it appears to be in good shape.  There are plenty of cars out there.  As an aside, we found certain markets have much better selection and price, especially Lexus.  In Indy there are not that many Lexus cars, in Lexington, Cinncinnati, and Chicago there were a lot more and the prices were significantly less.  Chicago cars tend to have more rust problems.

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I don't think it's that simple. He's not really spending $3 K on a $6 K car. (I don't remember the exact numbers so I'll use yours).

Any time I buy a used car, I assume that I'm going to have to put money into it. On a $6 K car, I assume that I'll have $1,000 in repairs in the first year - or more. So he's only spending $2 K more than I would reasonably have expected.

But even that isn't necessarily so bad. From his description of the car, it sounds like it's cosmetically perfect. That's worth something in a car this age. Would I pay a $2 K premium for a car that was cosmetically perfect? Probably.

What I'd suggest is to spend the money or so to have a mechanic go over it with a fine-toothed comb to see what he's looking at. If the mechanic says that he's already identified the problems and everything else is in great shape, I'd push for the seller to pay a fair part of the cost. The thing he has to avoid is fixing all these things and then having something else major break the next week - and then another problem the week after that.

As I said, I normally expect to have some expenses, so I might not demand that they pay the full amount (other than as an initial starting position). If he gets $1,000 back, and if the mechanic says the car is otherwise OK, he'll have a low mileage Lex in cosmetically perfect condition and mechanically excellent for $8000 or so. I would consider that a decent deal.

[dockerguy]

Thanks again for all the replies. I just went to a mechanic and had it gone over. Here's what he said.

Front three pistons had a compression reading of 190, which he said was excellent. But, it needs the following:

Front and rear valve cover gaskets: $600.00 labor. (Includes timing belt and water pump lbr)

Transmission pan gasket and svc. $175.00 labor. (Includes oil pan gasket labor)

Brakes (all four) $225.00 labor.

Rear struts (said fronts can wait 2 yrs.) $125.00 labor.

Total $1,125.00 labor.

Parts: (My guess)

Valve cover gaskets: $58.00

Trans. pan gasket $25.00

Brakes $92.00

Water pump $80.00

Timing belt $59.00

Power Steer. Pump $160.00

Approx Total $474.00

Does this sound about right, or ??? He said it would take two days. I priced the parts at Kragen.com and used the most expensive parts, except they don't have KYB struts, so I used Monroe pricing (most expensive).

The mechanic is going to get his prices and we'll compare. The seller said he would get me Lexus parts at cost, but their water pump cost is 141.00 and power steering pump is 340.00.

I'll take all advise you guys can throw at me!

Thanks again.

[kcpth]

I don't know if you want to... but if you have a SEARS AUTOCENTER around you, maybe you can also get a second opinion. SEARS will only check anything they don't have to take apart. They won't check brakes for ya. You'd have to pay for that. But they will check struts and anything they can see when they lift it up. I found they did a thorough inspection. In my sears the waiting room has windows so you look @ your baby

I'm not doubting the first mechanic but when i brought my ES to get an inspection sticker from HONDA (yes honda, they were the only ones available), they gave me a list of things that needed to be fixed. So i brought it to SEARS auto for a 2nd opinion and they also had a look.

They both agreed on some things, but they also disagreed on others. For example, they both said that i needed to replace my CV Shaft. However, they disagreed on this part, Honda said i needed to change ALL my struts and Sears said they didn't see any tear in it. I may also bring it to my Toyota dealer soon (THEY ARE ALWAYS PACKED) just to get it checked again to see if any one is pulling my chain.

Well good luck. @ least the guy is giving you 1k now. Compared to his $700 offer.

[jragosta]

Thanks again for all the replies.  I just went to a mechanic and had it gone over.  Here's what  he said. 

Front three pistons had a compression reading of 190, which he said was excellent. But, it needs the following:

Front and rear valve cover gaskets:        $600.00 labor. (Includes timing belt and water pump lbr)

Transmission pan gasket and svc.          $175.00 labor. (Includes oil pan gasket labor)

Brakes (all four)                                  $225.00 labor.

Rear struts (said fronts can wait 2 yrs.)  $125.00 labor.

Total                                              $1,125.00 labor.

Parts: (My guess)

Valve cover gaskets:    $58.00

Trans. pan gasket        $25.00

Brakes                      $92.00

Water pump                $80.00

Timing belt                $59.00

Power Steer. Pump    $160.00

Approx Total              $474.00

Does this sound about right, or ???  He said it would take two days.  I priced the parts at Kragen.com and used the most expensive parts, except they don't have KYB struts, so I used Monroe pricing (most expensive).

The mechanic is going to get his prices and we'll compare.  The seller said he would get me Lexus  parts at cost, but their water pump cost is 141.00 and power steering pump is 340.00.

I'll take all advise you guys can throw at me!

Thanks again.

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Nothing there seems out of line. In fact, seems quite reasonable - is this a mechanic you trust?

My inclination would be to take the $1K from the seller and get on with your life. As I understand it, you'll be paying about $600 more than you planned, but the car will be essentially cosmetically and mechanically perfect when you're done. Seems like a decent deal.

[dockerguy]

How does one know if they can trust a mechanic? All I can say is the guy has a mansion behind his shop (on ten acres) and is a retired LA Sheriff and seemed to know what he was doing, but I can tell you that he wasn't busy. He had two guys working for him.

Anyway, he called me back with *his* parts prices and they were $944.70. Mine, with the power steering pump, came out to $619.00 from Kragen, but he said the extra cost would be worth it since anything that would need to be replaced, because of cheap parts, would be high labor.

The seller is being difficult again, saying he has to go back east and can't afford to lose money, so I guess the car is going back, or I'll be leaving negative feedback for fraud.

I can't handle all this drama and I'm sure you guys are tired of this never-ending saga too! I've learned my lesson, unfortunately, the expensive way. Don't judge a book by it's cover! :)

Thanks again for all the help/advice/comments.

[dockerguy]

I'm happy to report that the Soap Opera ended yesterday when I took the car back to Marina del Rey and received a full refund after threatening legal action. He had the nerve to show me a legal notice that stated that buyer's remorse, and several other things, were not reasons for returning a car. He failed to mention that the last words were "other than fraud."

I rented a Buick le Sabre to drive back home and I have to say it was a gorgeous car, complete with XM radio. Coool. I was impressed with an American car! I'll be driving my '99 Explorer for awhile now. My Saluki thanks me for that.

If I find a nicer Lexus, I'll be back, but until then, thanks to everyone that gave their advice, opinion and concern. You're a great bunch o' people.

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!

DG

[kcpth]

Glad to hear that things worked out for u. Did u leave him a negative feedback or was the agreement to not leave a feedback? I hope he doesn't leave u a neg feedback.

Keep us posted on da car u will purchase in the future.