Performance Comparisons between old GS-400 and New GS-430

[gserep1]

Hello,

I am in the market for a GS-400 or 430 and I am currently test driving both the new GS-430 and the older GS-400. It is my understanding that nothing was done to the transmission during the transition, and the engine was simply bored out from 4.0 to 4.3. Horsepower and torque is supposed to be the same. Does the 430 run any smoother, faster, or quicker than the older 400? Or does the older 400 perform better than the newer 430, due to increased weight of the newer car? Has anyone owned both cars over the years?

With the exception of the loss of the sport shift controls from the steering wheel of the GS-430, is there anything else that I should look for? That steering wheel control comes in handy, but now it is exclusively on the GS-300 (go figure)....

It also seems that the 16 inch wheels ride better and last longer, but the 17's (and 18, 19 and 20's) I have seen around offer better performance, but increased noise and reduced tire life. I would like to drive longer than 15,000 miles between tire changes, but would also like to have decent grip on the road.

Any comments from current and prior owners of this fine automobile would be appreciated. I was looking at somethng front-wheel driven....(Acura TL-S, Nissan Maxima 6 speed, ect), but decided to invest the extra cash for a truly enjoyable rear wheel driver. The GS-4 series is in a class all its' own. The Nissan Infiniti (Nissan) G-35 leaves me cold (too many on the road already). Resale will definitely suffer. There are not too many certified 2001/2002 GS-430's for sale on the market. I don't want a car older than 2 years old. Market value on this car being what it is, y9u still pay a pretty penny for a used (pre-owned) GS- 4 series car.

Keep in touch, and thank you in advance,

Respectfully,

GSEREP1

[Supra-chargedIS340]

rodders is defo your man for this one....................

[gserep1]

Thanks for the info,

I am hoping that he will soon log on and leave me some valuable information. I really have the itch for the GS, but want to research as much as possible before taking the giant plunge. I was in Hawaii last week on business, and I could not believe the number of GS-4's on the island of Oahu. No place to really open it up. The cars looked great though with lots of accessories..(l-tuned, smoked windows, lowering kits, ect).

Thanks again for the info,

GSEREP1 8)

[Rodders]

Hi gserep1 - and welcome to TL!!

I have a GS300 actually, but can vouch for its conmort, performance and quality. Mine is 4 years old, and I've driven over 100,000 miles in it. The car has never failed me in any way, and I'd say the total cost of ownership is fairly low as it is so reliable. The only reasons I've kepy mine so long (I normally change every 3 years), is that I just love this car to bits and really can't think of anything that I'd swap it for.

The GS400 was never produced here in the UK, and the GS430 has only been available for a while. The GS4 is pretty much marketed as a "supercar" here, and it certainly is extremely quick - with gas at over 6 bucks a gallon though, cost of ownership is a consideration.

My GS has 16inch wheels, which I've kept on, although I have changed the wheels for MilleMiglia alloys. The ride is very smooth, and handling is everything that I want it to be. I'm a motorway (highway) driver mostly, doing most of my miealge at around 100mph, and I get about 30,000 out of a set of tyres (I've been using Eagle F1s, but have recently changed to Potenza S03s).

Mine has the SatNav option. Many people feel this is just a toy when they're looking to buy a GS - I wouldn't be without mine now, and the touch-screen controls for audio, climate, trip etc that you get with the SatNav option are very useful too.

If you're buying used, I would say that as long as you get a full Lexus service history, you're going to be fine. You might even want to consider to GS300 - although it is a smaller engine (and a straight-6), there are not many other differences in the car, and the performance differencials are not huge.

If you are looking at 300s - make sure you look at the SE or sport variant - they have all the toys fitted. The sport is the same engine as the SE, but has lowered suspension, fatter wheels and some body enhancements.

In any event - I'm sure that once you take the plunge and buy a Lexus, you'll never change!!!

Good luck - let us know what you decide.

Cheers

Rod

[gserep1]

Hello,

And thanks for the prompt response. I am still looking for the car I want. I decided to try a few pre-owned GS-400's, and I found a 99 with 60,000 miles for about $32,000 dollars. The engine is essentially the same except for the larger bore, and the throttle has a cable on the old ones, and is "throttle-by-wire" on the new car. They both seem to respond the same to me. Still a very quick and fast automobile.

It was a corporate car from Arizona, (all freeway miles), and had all the services done except for the latest one. This dealer bought it at an auction. They were not willing to negotiate the price, but when I asked them about the 60,000 mile service, they said that it would cost about a grand. Is this the normal price for a 60,000 mile service? Then they called back and said that they would do the service if I purchased the car.

The car is rock solid, and it is hard to believe that it has 60,000 miles on it. I never drove a car that was so tight at 60,000 miles. no dents, or dings either. Still, 60,000 miles IS 60,000 miles. I think that I can do better than that price-wise.

If anyone has any experience with Lexus service costs, please let me know. I was also told first that the timing belt would have to be changed at 120,000 miles, then they called me back and said that it was 90,000 on the GS-4, and 120,000 miles on the GS-3. They also said that all spark plugs have to be changed at 60,000 miles. Now I am confused.

If anyone has the STRAIGHT SCOOP on service requirements for this car, please let me know.

Thanks,

GSEREP1

[Rodders]

I wouldn;t worry to much about 60K miles - that's nothing on a straight-6 engine, let alone a V8! If it's all freeway miles too - that's much less of a problem, and if it's a corporate car, it will have been serviced properly.

Mine as 110K on it and it's till perfect.

I guess service schedule vary by region - here in the UK, 63K is a very expensive service because the timing belt AND the plugs get changed. Also, I know that the schedule has changed over the past couple of years - mines a 99 and needs servicing every 9K - new ones get done at 10K.

If your dealer is offering a free service - why don't you negotiate for new plugs and a new timing belt for free??

You might want to call Lexus in your state direct - and get the view from the horses mouth.

Good luck with your hunt!!

[gserep1]

Thank you so much for your prompt response. I have been encouraged enough to consider purchasing that unit with 60,000 miles. The dealership had about 6 GS-400's, and this was the LAST one left. Most people shied away from it because of the miles, but it is mechanically PERFECT in every respect. I will look around and see if I can find one with lower miles and great condition, but if not, I WILL get this one. Lexus cannot "certify" this car because it has more than 60,000 miles, but it seems to be a GREAT car in every other respect.

Thanks again for all of your comments.

Looks like I will be driving a GS-400 pretty soon. $57,000 for a new GS-430 is a bit much, but it is a great car. I also like the fact that the old throttle body is cable controlled, vice the "throttle-by-wire", electronic controls of the newer system. The GS-400's I have driven drive every bit as good as the new 430's in my book, PLUS I have the "E" shift on the steering wheel.

Either the emissions standards changed recently, or the new 4.3 engine is not as clean as the old 4.0 engine. I was told that only the new GS-300 was efficient enough to pass emissions standards with E shift. Just food for thought.

Thanks,

GSEREP1

[Rodders]

Glad to have helped, and I'm delighted that you're really considering a Lexus.

I tell ya - the GS4xx is absolutely the only car I'd ever consider swapping my GS300 for - I'm sure you won't be disappointed.

Have fun!! :D

[gserep1]

You are a gentleman and a scholar. There are a BUNCH of GS400's and 430's available here in the good ol' US of A, and I would like to get the best I can for my money. Premium gasoline is not as expensive here as it is in the UK, ($1.50 to $1.95 per gallon US) so it is possible to own and drive this car without going to the poorhouse. I have seen regular gasoline here as low as $1.20 a gallon.

I really wouold like to have a new one, but they hold up so well that it is not a big deal to get a new one.

Take care and Thanks again!

GSEREP1

I am going out to the dealer tonight after work.

[Rodders]

Petrol here is over 6 bucks a gallon now (sob), but it's still worth every penny to drive my Lexus around.

Please post some pics of your new ride when you get it.

All the best

Rod

[gserep1]

Thanks for the kind words Rod!

I was just driving about in the San Diego area a few days ago, and ran into an even nicer 99 GS-400 for less money, AND about 40,000 less miles. This one has 23,000 miles and is a lease return. They are selling it for 3,000 dollars below blue book sticker, which is odd. Just up the street at the Lexus dealer they have an identical car for nearly $5000 dollars more becuae it is certified. So I will have to check this one out closely. They claim that it has not been wrecked. It doesn't look bad at all, but you can see evidence of an impact on one of the aluminum wheels, and a small missing chunk of rubber on one tire that has been rotated to the rear of the car. I am cautious. I am contacting Lexus to have the VIN number researched, and I am willing to have Lexus look it over and give it a clean bill of health. The engine is superb sounding (of course it is at only 23,000 miles.) It was probably a car used by some executive's wife, because there is NO wear on the inside of the car.

I have seen a few of these cars wrecked, because of the sheer power of the engine, and the fact that some people get in over their heads with speed. This particular car was purchased from Lexus Headquarters at an auction, and they HAVE to disclose any accidents or damage that the car suffered. Wish me luck!

It is a tough choice, but I have to decide between $32,000 for a car with 23,000 miles, original tires, and no spoiler VS $32,000 for a car with 61,000 miles at a dealer, with new tires and a spoiler, and CANNOT be certified. By the way, "certification" costs about $700.00. They will inspect the vehicle from top to bottom to look for defects. After you pay for any repairs it needs, the car is then certified for 3 years or 100,000 miles from the original in service date of the car, whichever comes first. That can be quite expensive if the car needs work. If I get the lower mileage car, I think that I will take my chances, and not go the "certified" route. When you buy one, you are paying for the certification AND the repairs they had to make to get it up to standards.

I will keep you posted on what happens.

Keep in toouch,

GSEREP1 (Jess)

[Rodders]

Hi Jess

Decisions, decisions eh??

I wouldn't let mileage put you off, but the one with the lower mileage does sound like a better deal. You can always get a spoiler put on afterwards if you think it needs one - the one with the spoiler fitted may be a sport variant - has same engine but lower suspension, fatter wheels and some body kitting.

I forgot to mention - you might want to look out for the SatNav option. You not only get voice satellite navigation, but a touch screen that operates the audio, climate and trip computer etc etc. Many people think it's a useless toy at first - but I have one a wouldn't be without it. If you can find one with DVD-SatNav - even better!! (most are CD, and I think the US ones use hard drive based systems).

Good luck

Rod

[gserep1]

Thanks Rod,

I know for a fact that neither car has the navigational system. I wished that they did. Does your system work similar to the way ours works here? I know that the navigational systems do not work for any manufacturer in Hawaii due to the placement of the satellite.

You are also right about the spoiler. I can add it any time. Installed, it is about $900.00. I did not think that there was a factory suspension change just because of the spoiler. Maybe I will look at the specs and see if there are any changes in spring rates and height of the car.

Although the stock 400 or 430 is just a LITTLE soft for my driving tastes, I am WAY TOO OLD to want a car that looks and rides like a lowrider. I do like some comfort.

I will keep you posted on whatever I do. I can surely keep some cash in my pocket by going with the pre-owned, but I do not want to compromise TOO much. I have had horrible luck with pre-owned american cars in the past, but with this car line, I think that I can make an exception.

Take care, and THANKS

Jess

[Rodders]

Hiya

I think that the Nav systems fitted in UK spec and US spec GSs are pretty much the same - it's just the way that the map data is stored that is different. Mine uses a CD, newer models use DVD and I think that US spec cars use a hard drive - but they all work the same as far as I know. It'd be worth you at least seeing a Nav system before you decide.

Many people have made the ride a little harder by fitting different springs. Like you though, I'm too old to be after a bumpy ride and kept mine stock - the car weighs in at around 2 tons and sits on the road pretty well though.

I bought my car second user from a Lexus dealership with 30K on it - they were so confident about it that they gave me a free 3-year unlimited mileage warranty!

Take care

Rod

[ChuckW]

Sounds like you got the Lexus fever, all of us know so well. Glad to hear you've settled on a good choice. First off, I wouldn't be firm with the "Certified Lexus" thing; I purchased a Certified Lexus with a "bumper to bumper" extended warranty. I brought it back several times with various problems, the dealer seemed to find exclusions to the warranty for about half of these, air conditioner high-pressure hose being one of them ($500). Sure, they'll give you a Lexus loaner, etc, but if you can buy a non-certified model, great shape, it's still a Lexus and there are plenty of independents around that can service them cheaper than the dealer. 20,000 miles on a Lexus is virtually nothing negative on a good engine. My area is Phoenix, Az, and there seems to be about a $3000-4000 difference in dealer certified cars and good private party cars. Most 2-3 leasebacks are back on the market now, the owners seem to be bucks-up types that adhere to the service schedules. Good luck in your search-ChuckW

[ChuckW]

Correction to the above: most 2-3 year old leasebacks are on the market now needing adoption into a new home, I believe in being charitable when possible. It's hard to type accurately in the morning. Hasta luego-C

[gserep1]

Thanks Chuck W, and the rest of the fine Lexus owners in this group. I finally settled on the GS-400,. Now it is the choice between the certified and non-certified. Certified model stickers at $40,000.00 US. They claim to want to work with me, but "have to maintain the fair market value". What a bunch of hogwash. They are working overtime to "sell value", and put the fear in your heart against any Lexus that is not certified.

I have driven both of these cars back to back, and it is difficult to make a decision.

The first is a gold 99 with spoiler, navigational system, 17 inch chrome wheels and Michelin "Z" rated Pilots half way worn down. 33,000 miles. Tan leather, Certified by Lexus, and the car is strong and fast. No rattles. My best price: $37,000 + tax and license. The tires are really noisy at any speed. I know that I will have to buy tires soon.

The second car is a 99 GS-400 with 40,000 miles, no spoiler. It does have navigational system, and is also a beautiful running car. It is not at a Lexus dealer, so it is not certified. It does not show any signs of unusual wear, and has been maintained. I am looking for signs of rust, since it was purchased in Maryland brand new. I am in California. The car looks as if it had been garaged during the winter. Car was bought at an auction, but not sure where. The tires are the 16 inch Gooodyear GT+4's with the "V" rating on standard non chromed wheels, and they are shot. I have to buy tires NOW, or negotiate them in the purchase price. The dealer will not replace the tires until the car is sold.. He says that he will let the new owner decide what kind of tires he wants instead of spending money on something that someone may not want. He is interested in selling it like it is, and will heavily negotiate on the price. He had it advertised for $31,900 in the paper a week ago. It is silver with black leather interior. Not too much maintenance to be done, just oil change and air filter. Car has had the 30,000 mile service done at Lexus.

I really like this car, but the maintenance aspect without a Lexus warranty holds me back. I think that I will try to see what kind of warranty I could buy that would take effect after the remainder of the 4/50,000 mile warranty is used up. I think that the 16 inch tires will probably last a lot onger than the 17's will also. The tires will not grip as well, but will definitely last longer in the process. In a way, I think that the car looks a bit classier without the spoiler, and I could always add that if I wanted it that badly. I like the navigational system in both, and I really want that more than the spoiler. Interiors are exceptional in both cars. That silver car could be a "diamond in the rough", because I can't find ANYTHING wrong with it, but the tires and normal maintenance.

Any comments from the audience would be GREATLY appreciated. I have the money for both of these, but I sure don't want to waste money if I don't have to. I can do a lot with 5 thousand dollars, don't you think?

Thanks a lot everyone. I am eagerly awaiting your responses.

GSEREP1

[docrings]

Certified from the Putnam Lexus Dealer in Redwood City, CA

2000 GS400

Platinum Edition

Immaculate

57,000 miles

Gold with NAV/stereo

60K service performed

New Tires

Lease trade-back car, all Lexus service history

$32,500 out the door, with 5.99% financing....

Edmunds blue book for this certified car is $40,000!

Thanks LEXUS!!!!!!!!!!! :P

Dr. Rings

San Diego, CA

[gserep1]

DOC,

That is a fine price indeed on the car you purchased. You just made the wire for a certified Lexus. 60,000 miles is the limit in that regard, to the best of my understanding. The high miles lowers the value substantially, and you have only 40,000 miles of remaining factory warranty left, IF you did not purchase additional warranty. Cars with less miles sell for closer to that $40,000 at Lexus dealerships. 1999 GS-400's with less miles are routinely sold for more money than you paid.

Being a Platinum Edition, I am sure that you have the 16 inch wheel and tire combination. This combination is proving to be the smoothest riding. t doesn't handle as well as the 17's but also does not ride as hard or wear as fast.

Once again, CONGRATULATIONS on a good buy, and WELCOME to LexusOwnersClub.com.

GSEREP1

[alexwilo]

Gserep1,

$32k is too much for a GS3 with that much mileage. I bought my 1999 @ 36,000 miles with factory warranty for $27,500 from a dealership here in Atlanta that buys there cars off of lease directly from Lexus just like a Lexus dealership does. I love my Triple GS to death.

[THE411VM]

i have a 1998 gs400 on 20 inch lexani's. everything basicly stock, theres an aftermarket sub and amp running on the stock deck w/ cd changer. no navigation, no satalite radio, no heated seats, no gold emblems. AND.... i love it. i live in Texas, the A/C blows ice cold 24/7, i'm having alternator problems right now, but i have like 120k on the car. all of the power windows work good, everyone is fully automatic up and down. the tires on the 20's don't last as long as i'd like and clearance is tight, but it skates on the road great. 5 speed automatic cruises excellent on the highway. Same mpg on the highway as my the steering wheel manual shift is neat and fun but it's not really worth it. it provides no use at all from dead stop, it is made more for passing people on the highway for quick downshifts, or lets say theres all of a sudden a huge wreck on the highway and you need to slam on the breaks, the normal automatic downshifts to provide transmission braking but if you use the manual shift you can break harder. for the speed factor the manual shift in the steering wheel is absolutly useless, but for the braking factor it's genious. my friends have cadillac cts's and gs300's....... pieces of *BLEEP*. not really, they are good cars too, but lesser cars by far. gs400's are comparable to the cts-v's, except the cadillacs have a real 6 speed manual. considering the price of a cts-v being closer to 30g's and a used gs400 is closer to 15g's, the automatic tranny with triptonic manual steershifts is clearly the better buy. GS400's still beat new Mustang Gt's, but not something GM. being z28 camaro's, trans am's, corvettes, cts-v's, xlr's, gto's, G8's. oooooo yeah something i'd trade my GS400 for is either a brand new GS400 or a new pontiac G8. 4 door v8 with 6 speed is the way of the future, besides those futuristic japanese princess's called prius's heated seats are over rated, atleast for Texas, Navigation would be neat but you can easily upgrade to aftermarket navigation for like 600 bucks and be able to watch REAL movies not just an artificial view of your city all day. and if you get an aftermarket navigation system you can add backup camera's for like 50 bucks. and any new aftermarket nav system you'd buy would automaticly be satalite radio ready, and who wants gold emblems on their car's now a days???? that was so early 90's. :P