Car Insurance

[mburnickas]

It is not a lie, I do not know, call the fire department or city hall. Not my job since I pay THEM to do a job.... so do YOUR JOB.

Also I just called Metlife at 10:13 EST and the lady said, “give your best guess on these house questions” . Again that was from Metlife. I also asked her how do you people prove this is correct data? She said “we can’t due to manpower issues since it would cost too much. Sir it is only a guess & we rely on the customer”. I asked what happens when an 80 year old calls and then what. She said we still try to get the answers. So I then asked, “what do you do if they do not know, charge the most”. She then stated, “sir we try to get the answers”. They ask about wiring, roof etc but never about real things like, my FFL business in guns, etc.

It is not a lie if you are guessing and they can’t prove it. You could be 100% wrong and they can’t say you lied since they stated “please guess best to your ability”.

I am facing it and I do understand it and play by there rules, or lack there of. I answer to what they ask no more, no less and I am guessing.

Also I would not bring this type of attitude into it since it is against LOC policy rules as posted and will be reported.

I also asked her on the discounts on auto and home. She said I was at the best I can get. I then asked her if they give discounts for people going to school with good grades, Response “no” unless it is for drivers Edu. I then asked about what types of jobs make a higher auto rate, she said, “none since we do not ask what you do for a job since it changes to offen and we could have to go back and edit the forms and re-do the policy. It is too much time”.

[jragosta]

It is not a lie, I do not know, call the fire department or city hall. Not my job since I pay THEM to do a job.... so do YOUR JOB.

Also I just called Metlife at 10:13 EST and the lady said, “give your best guess on these house questions” . Again that was from Metlife. I also asked her how do you people prove this is correct data? She said “we can’t due to manpower issues since it would cost too much. Sir it is only a guess & we rely on the customer”. I asked what happens when an 80 year old calls and then what. She said we still try to get the answers. So I then asked, “what do you do if they do not know, charge the most”. She then stated, “sir we try to get the answers”. They ask about wiring, roof etc but never about real things like, my FFL business in guns, etc.

It is not a lie if you are guessing and they can’t prove it. You could be 100% wrong and they can’t say you lied since they stated “please guess best to your ability”.

I am facing it and I do understand it and play by there rules, or lack there of. I answer to what they ask no more, no less and I am guessing.

Also I would not bring this type of attitude into it since it is against LOC policy rules as posted and will be reported.

I also asked her on the discounts on auto and home. She said I was at the best I can get. I then asked her if they give discounts for people going to school with good grades, Response “no” unless it is for drivers Edu. I then asked about what types of jobs make a higher auto rate, she said, “none since we do not ask what you do for a job since it changes to offen and we could have to go back and edit the forms and re-do the policy. It is too much time”.

You seem to have a problem with the concept of honesty. It's really a simple concept. You might ask someone to explain it to you.

If they ask you for your best guess and you give them your best guess, that's an honest guess. If they ask for you best guess and you give them a response which you know is way off the mark, that's a lie. The fact that they asked for an estimate doesn't change that.

As for the good student discount, it's not my fault you chose a lousy insurance company. We get 10% off all lines for our students having good grades.

http://www.statefarm.com/educate/teen.htm

"Some insurance companies, like State Farm, give Good Student Discounts* for maintaining good grades and Accident Free Discounts* to reward safe driving records. Your State Farm agent will be happy to explain how these work."

The fact that you can't find it doesn't mean it's not true.

[bdonkersgoed]

Wow . . . I haven't checked this post in a couple days, and there has ben a lot of discussing going on!

To the complainers . . . well, I am a "complainer" too, because I pay huge for my insurance due to my age and gender. Does this mean I hate insurance? NO, definitely not! Does this mean insurance is stupid and should be scrapped? NO, definitely not! Can I grumble about paying high premiums? Sure, but that's because, as a human, I don't like to pay a lot of money. It's like taxes . . . people get *BLEEP*ed off when they have to pay a lot, but they must not forget what they get in return! Move to a third-world country and they'll find out what their taxes do for them!

Now, back to insurance. Yes, it really sucks when, like myself, you are in a high-risk category and have to pay high premiums. I consider myself a very safe and very courteous driver as well. In my specific case, to match my risk of an accident to cost I should be paying a third of what I pay. BUT, that is just not how insurance works. I am a Actuarial Science student almost through University (and I am currently working at an insurance company) so I know. Insurance cannot analyze EVERY SINGLE PERSON individually, because the analysis process would cost more than what you are currently paying in insurance!

The actuaries gather tonnes and tonnes and tonnes of data on many different rating characteristics (such as age, gender, etc.) Based on a VERY thorough actuarial analysis, they assign differentials to each of the rating characteristics (basically, a percentage increase or decrease in premium if you fall into the category). Don't doubt the actuaries . . . quite seriously, these are some of the smartest mathematicians in the world. Also, actuaries don't just pull rates out of their asses. They have to follow Generally Accepted Actuarial Principles (like Accounting's Generally Accepted Accounting Principles) or their asses could be sued huge. Also, rates are monitored constantly by the Government to be certain that they adhere to these principles--if they don't, then there is BIG TROUBLE!

Yes, it sucks to be in a high-risk category, but that is just life. Bite the bullet . . . soon you will be paying cheaper insurance as you prove yourself as a driver.

Are you STILL *BLEEP*ed off? Then I offer you a challenge . . . come up with a better system, that still allows people to be fully compensated in the event of a loss, and you will be a very rich man. Let me know what your plan is . . . I doubt that you can come up with one. If you can't come up with a better way, then you shouldn't be complaining.

Yes, I agree that insurance isn't perfect. Neither is democracy, but it is the best that we've got. In a perfect world, insurers would be able to stick a cable into the brain of each individual person and get a risk rating, and charge them an appropriate premium. Or better yet, insurers would have a magic crystal ball that they could see your entire future in . . . now that would be sweet!

Insurance companies try to make money, but they don't make as much as you would think. A lot of companies are just breaking even or even taking losses. Basically, they try to give you the cheapest premium they can based on your level of risk. Unfortunately, they cannot analyze you individually, and I think that is why you are so *BLEEP*ed off. It's understandable, but there is no better way.

Regards,

Bryan

[mburnickas]

I do not have a problem. I do have a problem with the owner ME guessing on what these items are and my policy is based on that. That is a bad way to run a business. I really do not have a problem since my insurance is just fine. Plus it is home insurance policies your way since the process for coming up with it is a total joke. Maybe I should "guess" when I send them payment?

You stated “your best guess and you give them your best guess, that's an honest guess”. They said guess not anything else. They said "best guess". Back to basics here, define best guess since I do not know a good roof vs old per say. So I guess and my best guess is when I bought the house. Can’t prove me wrong since that is a best guess. If they think I am wrong, call the builder of the home, inspector, city hall etc.

Again I would state just because some company gives more discounts for wearing shoes vs sneaker then the pills some old person takes. They can give you a discount for this and that but they get you in other ways. Rates go up. Other discounts go down etc. They get there money. How do you prove you are a good student or good grades since it is not defined? What happens if you are not, higher rates :)

I never stated it was false info at all.

Bdonkersgoed - What do I get for my low auto or home insurance? So far nothing. I have never had to use insurance to date and so far I do not get anything. Oh, wait I get a policy packet each year at my renewal time. I do not pay a huge rate at all, in fact I pay the least ever. It is the point.

Do not bring taxes into it since I get something for my taxes. It is called a trash, recycling, city roads, bridges, city police, fire dept. Completely different story here plus I get service all the time for these.

I never stated actuaries in any post I jut state stats are not 100% correct.

Also you stated ,” soon you will be paying cheaper insurance as you prove yourself as a driver.

”. I disagree since you can get into more accidents go to court and get off 100%. You are not proving anything. Get pulled over for speeding and go to court and get off. You are not proving anything. But if you look at it that way, feel free.

I am not mad at all. My rates are very low it is just the point. I hate insurance companies, period. My wife worked for them and it is not NASA here. You like them since that is your field and of course you want to save YOUR job. I would do the same. I really like the process for making your our home policy bill though. And this is not the only company that does this. My last one did the same.

Insurance does have a magic crystal ball, it is called actuaries and that is the best they have. Yes, there are in high regards since what they do/say effects the companies bottom line.

If an insurance companies is not making much, define much? Also if they don’t break even “clean house” since someone is not doing there job.

Again I like my final bill but I feel sorry for the people getting porked.

[jragosta]

Do not bring taxes into it since I get something for my taxes. It is called a trash, recycling, city roads, bridges, city police, fire dept. Completely different story here plus I get service all the time for these.

You get a service for your insurance premium, as well.

For the price you pay, you are spreading your risk. If you wish, you're buying peace of mind and security from bankruptcy.

[bdonkersgoed]

Hey mburnickas,

You seem to know of the insurance process. Yes, it sucks for the people, like myself (a young single male), who get porked. I am a very good driver. I aced my driving test (both car and motorcyle tests) and I drive ver defensively. Basically, I assume everyone on the road is out to kill me and I take it from there :P

Yes, I get porked by insurance. Yes, it *BLEEP*es me off that I have to pay such high premiums . . . but that is just the way it is. I didn't hear a better suggestion from you . . .

Yes, I also agree that insurance companies can waste some money, but it is the same thing with most large corporations.

Yes, you do get something in return for your insurance policy. As jragosta mentioned, you get peace of mind and protection from going bankrupt.

Put it this way, if car insurance wasn't mandatory, would you still purchase it? I bet you would . . . If self insuring was allowed, then you have a couple million dollars sitting around in case you injure or kill someone in an accident. Now, I consider myself to be one fo the best drivers I know, but does this mean I will never make a mistake? Certainly not. I like knowing that, if I make a mistake a total my car, the insurance company is there to help. I have been in two not-at-fault accidents in my life, and have thus gained tangibly from an insurance company, even though I am a good driver.

I also agree with you on the "guessing" aspect of your home insurance. However, don't forget that this is the one insurance company in particular. Some insurance companies may require a home inspection before insuring. However, because home insurance is fairly cheap, they probably just rely on your honesty, with the penalty of fraud if you are caught in a major lie. Really, many of the questions that they ask you won't affect your rate by that much anyways. The main factors are the value of your home and the location.

Just a tip on home insurance that many people don't know . . . If you have, for instance, a house worth $400,000 that is insured for $300,000 (due to inflation since the time you bought it) and you have a fire with $200,000 damage, you are only covered for $150,000. Many people think you are covered for $200,000 because your policy limit is $300,000 however, this is not true. Because you are only insuring 75% of the full value of your home, you will only be paid 75% of the value of any loss.

Regards,

Bryan

[mburnickas]

Hi Bryan: Do you people know I really need to get work done at work here :D

I take the SAME outlook on my car/bike/tractor since I must get cut in front of weekly on my bike. Never mind on my tractor…People need to open their eyes since road have things called CARS!

I do not need piece of mind, just do their job. My home is owned by the bank and so is my car. If something happens let them deal with it.

I did not forget here. I have refinanced three times from 8.5% down to 5.0 last fall, switched 2 insurance companies, and 3 different mortgage people. All 3 had the home inspector people come out for $200 and then 1 month later I get a call asking the same standard questions. Age of roof, plumbing, pool, dogs, hospital, kitchen-oven, furnace, a/c, etc. Did I not just pay someone to figure this out for ya! So why are you calling? I guess the inspector does not talk to the mortgage or bank since all this was spelled out on a huge book. Or someone is not doing their job. If they push for info, I pull numbers out of air since it is their problem since I “paid” for an inspector. Again this was done 3 times with different mortgage people. No wonder insurance is so high. Everyone is duplicating effects here & wasting their and my time.

Example, I removed a 16 x 32 in ground pool and my liability changed ZERO! Figure that out.

[jragosta]

I do not need piece of mind, just do their job. My home is owned by the bank and so is my car. If something happens let them deal with it.

Amazing. You're making that kind of investment without understanding the consequences?

If someone totals your car, you still owe the bank the amount of money they loaned you. If your house burns to the ground, you still have to pay the mortgage.

More importantly, if you kill someone with your car or if someone slips on ice on your sidewalk and is incapacitated, it's YOUR liability, not the bank's.

Insurance protects you from things that are your liability. The fact that you have other obligations doesn't enter into the matter.

[jragosta]

Just a tip on home insurance that many people don't know . . . If you have, for instance, a house worth $400,000 that is insured for $300,000 (due to inflation since the time you bought it) and you have a fire with $200,000 damage, you are only covered for $150,000. Many people think you are covered for $200,000 because your policy limit is $300,000 however, this is not true. Because you are only insuring 75% of the full value of your home, you will only be paid 75% of the value of any loss.

That's one of the major reasons to have replacement value coverage.

[mburnickas]

I do not need piece of mind, just do their job. My home is owned by the bank and so is my car. If something happens let them deal with it.

Amazing. You're making that kind of investment without understanding the consequences?

If someone totals your car, you still owe the bank the amount of money they loaned you. If your house burns to the ground, you still have to pay the mortgage.

More importantly, if you kill someone with your car or if someone slips on ice on your sidewalk and is incapacitated, it's YOUR liability, not the bank's.

Insurance protects you from things that are your liability. The fact that you have other obligations doesn't enter into the matter.

I understand 100% but I again they get paid to do a job! Again I have more important things to worry about. I just hope they do they job as they state in their policy.

The banks say you must have insurance, not me. I just do what they say per the loan agreements. They are covering their investments since they own the house and car. I do not own anything. They just care about their items, not me.

Since I know what I owe on my car, it is less then a new engine. pocket cash. My tractor is worth 2X my car! If someone totals my car, Lexus goes after the insurace since the want there money for it; since they have the title. Samething goes for my tractor, something happens to it (theft, fire etc), Kubota agoes after metlife for $18,000. It is not my problem.

If my home burns down the bank makes sure you have the proper coverage before even buying it. . That is why you pay upfront before even signing.

Someone can sue me for whatever but they can't force me to leave my home nor take my home due to the homested act.

It seems you are worry a great deal. If you are that worried about things do not go out of your home.

Insurance is out for themselves first, then comes you.

[steviej]

guys, this is a very interesting debate, let's keep it that way. Try to maintain civil tones please.

Eliminate the name calling immediately. It is immature, reduces your credibility and above all is against LOC rules!

If the discussion does not continue on a mature level, the thread will be closed.

steviej

ES Forum Moderator.

[Geo]

Best deal I got is with Geico.

Give them a call.

George

[jragosta]

Best deal I got is with Geico.

Give them a call.

George

Give several places a call. But keep in mind:

1. Don't believe the 'we'll always save you money' ads. NO ONE can always be the lowest. I've checked State Farm against Geico 3 or 4 times - and State Farm was lower every time. So, for drivers like me (very safe driving record, suburban locations, moderately expensive vehicles, State Farm comes out ahead - but won't always do so.

2. Don't fall into the trap of buying the least expensive insurance - which is fine until you have an accident. Look at the insurer's history and reputation. In the late 80's there was a major insurance company (you'd recognize the name) which was very low priced got in trouble for not paying claims. I personally know a couple of people who got burned (either claims were never paid or they had to get a lawyer involved to get their money - months late).

I prefer to stick with a couple of well-respected firms and get quotes from them. Don't stop at the first quote. Ask them if they've given you all the discounts you're eligible for.

Tip. Most companies offer multiple line discounts. If you have other insurance from them, you'll save money on your auto insurance. If you're paying over $100 per month for auto insurance (which includes most people with late model cars and/or high risk categories), consider buying the least expensive term life insurance you can get from the agency. It will only cost a few dollars per month but could save you 10-15% on your car insurance - plus you'll have enough insurance to at least cover your burial costs.

[bdonkersgoed]

Best deal I got is with Geico.

Give them a call.

George

Give several places a call. But keep in mind:

1. Don't believe the 'we'll always save you money' ads. NO ONE can always be the lowest. I've checked State Farm against Geico 3 or 4 times - and State Farm was lower every time. So, for drivers like me (very safe driving record, suburban locations, moderately expensive vehicles, State Farm comes out ahead - but won't always do so.

2. Don't fall into the trap of buying the least expensive insurance - which is fine until you have an accident. Look at the insurer's history and reputation. In the late 80's there was a major insurance company (you'd recognize the name) which was very low priced got in trouble for not paying claims. I personally know a couple of people who got burned (either claims were never paid or they had to get a lawyer involved to get their money - months late).

I prefer to stick with a couple of well-respected firms and get quotes from them. Don't stop at the first quote. Ask them if they've given you all the discounts you're eligible for.

Tip. Most companies offer multiple line discounts. If you have other insurance from them, you'll save money on your auto insurance. If you're paying over $100 per month for auto insurance (which includes most people with late model cars and/or high risk categories), consider buying the least expensive term life insurance you can get from the agency. It will only cost a few dollars per month but could save you 10-15% on your car insurance - plus you'll have enough insurance to at least cover your burial costs.

Hmmm . . . maybe it is different in the USA, but here in Canada, the Property and Casualty (i.e. Car and home) insurers are pretty much separate from the Life insurers. I can't think of one major company off hand that insures both P&C and Life . . . However, what you say about multiline insurance is true. Here in Canada, you can get a pretty nice 10-15% discount if you insure your car and home through the same insurer.

Also, I totally agree with you that no insurance company offers to cheapest rates to ALL risks. Each company has it's own target market. The company I am wish hates young single males, so a premium from them would be double anywhere else because they are purposely trying to push young males away. However, if you are a 60-year-old male, you can get one of the best rates around . . .

I like what you say about "paying more than $100/month for insurance". Kind of funny, because I have a perfect record and am paying $340CAN/month for insurance on my old '92 ES300 (which isn't an expensive car to insure". That's what I get for being a young 21-year-old single male :P

Regards,

Bryan

[bdonkersgoed]

guys, this is a very interesting debate, let's keep it that way. Try to maintain civil tones please.

Eliminate the name calling immediately. It is immature, reduces your credibility and above all is against LOC rules!

If the discussion does not continue on a mature level, the thread will be closed.

steviej

ES Forum Moderator.

Hey Steviej,

I didn't think that the tone of these posts were all that bad . . . I don't think that I or anyone else said anything offensive. This thread has become a little edgy at times, but that is just the nature of a debate. I think we all have some good points here, and I can totally understand people's frusteration with insurance. I am frusterated too, but I understand it enough to know that there is no better way . . .

Regards,

Bryan