Tire Dillema Continues...

[ArmyofOne]

ummm steve, the 02 concorde is the LHS. exactly the same car:

2001 (last Model year of the LHS) LHS:

http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc.ur?kbb....0LHS&5;CR;G2&&&

and heres the 2002 concorde that sits in the driveway:

Inside:

how is that not comparable to an ES?

Its got a V6, in the same size and weight class. its FWD.

granted the ES is a much better car, im not arguing that.

in 2002 the LHS name was dropped, as was the car that was the concorde. Chrysler took the LHS body and slapped the concorde name on it, thus doing completely away with the name LHS. the chassis, suspension, engine and transmission are identical to that of the LHS however.

the concorde you are thinking of is this one:

[

or this one:

WHich were closer to an intrepid than they are a premium sedan, it was mid level, because the LHS was the premium. but when the 300M debuted, they didnt need the concorde anymore, why they dropped the LHS name for the conncorde i have no idea.

[Lexusfreak]

LexusFreak, are you saying you will go to T rated Goodyear TripleTreads next. I am nearing a replacement soon and am very tempted to go T rated Goodyear Tripletreads but have been hesitating, since most gurus have recomended not going 2 ratings below.

Question to all : If I don't expect to go above 90mph at any time can I go Goodyear Tripletreads. Snow/wet traction and smoothness/quietness are 2 highest requirements on my list, followed by warranty, and these seem have them best (as per tirerack.com). I currently have Goodyear Comfordtreads on my minivan and am extremely happy with them. But then I may be comparing apples to watermelons!

cheers

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Spatel,

The Goodyear Triple Treads are available in an H speed rated for my 01 ES, 205 60 16 . I currently run the V speed rated Toyo TPT's. I will only be going down 1 speed rating not 2, to the T speed. What size do you need, I can check to see what speed rating they have available for you. I would check with several tire dealers should you only be able to get the T speed rating......I don't personally recommend going more than 1 speed rating down, but get the advice of several tire dealers to see what they say. ;)

The GY Comfortreads are very 'decent' & I'm glad your happy with them on your minivan. The GY Triple Treads (both tires are under the 'Assurance' line of tires) are the 'flagship' however & are a better overall performing tire, especially in bad weather. B) My wife I will be purchasing her a Subaru Forester soon with a factory tire size of 215 60 16 - T speed rated which is fine for the Forester (same size I beleive as your 2002 ES?) & the GY Triple Treads are going on that car too! B) Have a close look at the 'reviews' on tirerack for Subaru owners that have purchased the Triple Treads......they are a Very happy bunch.

[Lexusfreak]

LOL, I know. LF and I can go a few rounds about tires can't we? LOL. Its all in good fun though.

Watch your back LF ;) 

I agree, one of the better threads we've had in the last while! B) ;)

I recall that test, if I recall correctly it compared many tires, none of which I'd say were suited towards a car like the ES.

That's intresting enough sw........but I don't think you do recall correctly. The MXV4's are also on that list & came in 6th overall, while the Falkens were 1st.

The tests were performed in early 2004 & under the category Performance All Season tires.

The rest of the top 5 in order were: Bridgestone Turanza LS-H, Bridgestone Potenza RE950, Michelin Pilot XGTH4 & Dunlop SP Sport A2. The Michelin MXV4's were also by far the most expensive of the 18 tires tested. :whistles:

No clue on that one. My guess is it has something to do with either the OEM tires being built to a cost or being built in a different plant etc.

Same here, that's a strange one. I doubt Michelin would be willing to comment on the record to clairify.

Yes steve, i did only have one set fo tires ont hat car, but i have had many other tires on other cars. thats what i was referring it to.

But you can't really compare your experiences with tires on other cars to experiences with tires on this car. In my experience no other car is as picky about tires as a Lexus. Lincolns, Cadillacs, etc the ride of the car is mostly in the suspension and there is lots of sound deadening so it doesn't really matter what kind of tire is on the car. A Lexus on the other hand it matters a great deal. I've had experiences with 10 sets of tires on Lexus vehicles. So far, the quietest and what I'd say the best suited tires for the Lexus have been the Michelin MXV4s.

The Michelin tied the Falken for road noise in the CR tests......I concur with those findings as I have experence with both. Falken also beat out the Michelin in important categories such as dry & wet braking. The Michelin slightly edged out the Falken in rolling resistance & the other 6 categories both were tied, but the Falken was exactly half the price of the Michelin for the the same treadwear, traction & temp ratings. Remember I mentioned overall value.........:whistles:

Even CR mentions the Michelin is pricey all things considered. B)

and you know what, i liked themso much that i took the chrysler down to discount tire today and purchased another set for that car. the Concorde is in the same class of car as an ES330.

Not really. The Concorde is more similar to a Camry or Taurus. Believe it or not there are SIGNIFICANT differences between the way a Camry and an ES ride and drive. I've driven a lot of Camrys on a lot of different tires (including terrible tires, they ship them with Goodyear Integritys now) and they don't seem as affected by tires as the Lexus does. A better Chrysler comparable from that range would be the LHS, more softly sprung etc.

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With Army's pics, I have to agree with him that his Concorde is a step up from your average Camry or Taurus & the sister car to the LHS (if still a step down from the ES). B)

[ArmyofOne]

LOL, I know. LF and I can go a few rounds about tires can't we? LOL. Its all in good fun though.

Watch your back LF ;) 

I agree, one of the better threads we've had in the last while! B) ;)

I recall that test, if I recall correctly it compared many tires, none of which I'd say were suited towards a car like the ES.

That's intresting enough sw........but I don't think you do recall correctly. The MXV4's are also on that list & came in 6th overall, while the Falkens were 1st.

The tests were performed in early 2004 & under the category Performance All Season tires.

The rest of the top 5 in order were: Bridgestone Turanza LS-H, Bridgestone Potenza RE950, Michelin Pilot XGTH4 & Dunlop SP Sport A2. The Michelin MXV4's were also by far the most expensive of the 18 tires tested.:whistles:

No clue on that one. My guess is it has something to do with either the OEM tires being built to a cost or being built in a different plant etc.

Same here, that's a strange one. I doubt Michelin would be willing to comment on the record to clairify.

Yes steve, i did only have one set fo tires ont hat car, but i have had many other tires on other cars. thats what i was referring it to.

But you can't really compare your experiences with tires on other cars to experiences with tires on this car. In my experience no other car is as picky about tires as a Lexus. Lincolns, Cadillacs, etc the ride of the car is mostly in the suspension and there is lots of sound deadening so it doesn't really matter what kind of tire is on the car. A Lexus on the other hand it matters a great deal. I've had experiences with 10 sets of tires on Lexus vehicles. So far, the quietest and what I'd say the best suited tires for the Lexus have been the Michelin MXV4s.

The Michelin tied the Falken for road noise in the CR tests......I concur with those findings as I have experence with both. Falken also beat out the Michelin in important categories such as dry & wet braking. The Michelin slightly edged out the Falken in rolling resistance & the other 6 categories both were tied, but the Falken was exactly half the price of the Michelin for the the same treadwear, traction & temp ratings. Remember I mentioned overall value.........:whistles:

Even CR mentions the Michelin is pricey all things considered. B)

and you know what, i liked themso much that i took the chrysler down to discount tire today and purchased another set for that car. the Concorde is in the same class of car as an ES330.

Not really. The Concorde is more similar to a Camry or Taurus. Believe it or not there are SIGNIFICANT differences between the way a Camry and an ES ride and drive. I've driven a lot of Camrys on a lot of different tires (including terrible tires, they ship them with Goodyear Integritys now) and they don't seem as affected by tires as the Lexus does. A better Chrysler comparable from that range would be the LHS, more softly sprung etc.

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With Army's pics, I have to agree with him that his Concorde is a step up from your average Camry or Taurus & the sister car to the LHS (if still a step down from the ES). B)

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Im definately not arguing that the ES is better built. even a fully loaded (and i just priced one out at $35,585 on the toyota site) Camry cant compare in build quality. but, it is considered by magazines to be in the same class as the ES. that was my point. B) we all know there is no competition. :D

[SW03ES]

You're absolutely right, I had forgotten the LHS was replaced by the Concorde Limited.

As for the CR test, i don't remember those tires being included, I'll have to re-read it.

[Lexusfreak]

You're absolutely right, I had forgotten the LHS was replaced by the Concorde Limited.

As for the CR test, i don't remember those tires being included, I'll have to re-read it.

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You will see they (MXV4's) are on the list my friend. ;) B)

[steviej]

You will see they (MXV4's) are on the list my friend.  ;)    B)

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POINT!!!.......Lexusfreak.

this is kinda like scoring a tennis match now. :P :D :P :D

steviej

[Lexusfreak]

You will see they (MXV4's) are on the list my friend.   ;)    B)

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POINT!!!.......Lexusfreak.

this is kinda like scoring a tennis match now. :P :D :P :D

steviej

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Best 3 of 5 sets ;) I'm ahead 2 sets to 1, & 5 games to 3 in the forth set. :whistles: :P

[SW03ES]

Haven't had a chance to check Consumer Reports yet but here's an interesting quote from another member about the TPTs.

Austinite (I'm a former Austinite), I also believe new tires would make a big difference.  I have Toyo Proxes TPTs and they're LOUD on concrete.  A friend who is a Jeep geek rode with me last weekend and commented on how much louder my tires were than his offroad tires...ouch.  They also flat spot overnight.  Steve, I believe you said you had Toyo Proxes TPTs before, and didn't like them, right?  I can't wait for them to wear out.  20K and they still have LOTS of tread  :cries:  I guess I have to look at this in a positive light and say that they're wearing very evenly.  Do you still like your Michelins?  Good luck, Austinite.

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That was precisely my experience with them.

[98es]

I went by firestone today because one of my back tires (all 4 toyo proxes TPT) has some type of lump in it. The firestone guy looked at all of them and said i really needed a new set. The back one's were worn pretty bad, with the front one's being not as bad but still in need of replacement. Pretty dissapointing after only 30k, but i guess they're not high mileage tires and i'm very dissapointed in the ride. Anyways, they're doing the buy 3 get one free sale. He quoted me $414 for a set of Turanza LS-T's including tax and mounting. The tires are also guaranteed for 80,000 miles. If one shows up with a defect at, say, 79,000 miles, they replace it for FREE (no pro-rating!). That is definitely one advantage over the michelin's, which from my understanding do not offer that. Should I try costco or sams before I jump on this price?

He also offered me the firestone affinity for the same price. I've never heard of this tire though.

ps... this thread has been very helpful!

[steviej]

98es

If you are putting the Turanzas on either ES, I would go for the LS-H or LS-V.

LS-T is two speed ratings below manufacturers recomendations. They will work, but you may find more "give" than you are used going around corners.

Too bad, I don't need tires right now, I would be getting a set of the LS-Vs at that 4 for 3 deal.

steviej

[98es]

Thanks for the advice... which one is the next one up above T? Is it H? So Lexus recommends a V rating? T might be a problem because I already seem to have a lot of "give" going around corners. But it is a lexus so i shouldn't expect great handling.

[Darkjester]

THis topic is HUGE! But guys, flat out, I am putting tires on my 96 es300 on friday. I am right now between the Falkens (amazing price point ) and the bridgestone Ls-H ( like everything I have heard in reviews ) But I cant find which is better in rain and snow. I realize nothing will beat real snow tires but i have no garage to store anything so all season is what its got to be right now. I live in N.E. Ohio ( cleveland ) so we do get a ton of rain and a bunch of snow. I am at my wits end and any input would be helpfull. Thanks.

[jragosta]

98es

If you are putting the Turanzas on either ES, I would go for the LS-H or LS-V.

LS-T is two speed ratings below manufacturers recomendations.  They will work, but you may find more "give" than you are used going around corners.

Too bad, I don't need tires right now, I would be getting a set of the LS-Vs at that 4 for 3 deal.

steviej

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Is that 4 for 3 deal everywhere? If so, I need to go back to my dealer and ask for a refund. I just paid full price for 4 LSVs last week.

[SW03ES]

You definately don't want to put T rated tires on the car, you want Hs at the least and preferably Vs. You will find a change in the ride and handling characteristics of the car with T rated tires.

[ArmyofOne]

steve i figured you had probably just forgotten about the chrysler thing. LOL, no harm done.

[Darkjester]

Well, thats the problem. I can get the Falkens in a V rated tire for $90 a piece, but the turanzas in a v are $170. The turanzas in the H are only $115. my question is are the Turanzas in an H worth the extra hundred odd bucks, or should I go with the V rating for less money? this is my dillemma

[98es]

Just something i noticed... dude at the firestone place slipped in the "road hazard warranty" in the price he quoted me. That comes up to about $50. So now we're looking at $364 for the T rated tires.

I hate to be... stupid... but can someone give me a quick lesson on the speed ratings? I know the higher speed rating the faster you can go, but what else is the difference? Does a V rated tire ride rougher than an H rated tire? Or is the opposite? I guess it's just hard for me to spend $150 more for V rated tires that are only rated for 50k when the cheaper ones are rated for 80k. I want a smooth ride with minimal tire noise, i could care less how well it corners or how fast it can go. Can someone help straighten me out here????

ps.. this is for the '98, the '02 has new MXV4's.

[98es]

Well, thats the problem. I can get the Falkens in a V rated tire for $90 a piece, but the turanzas in a v are $170. The turanzas in the H are only $115. my question is are the Turanzas in an H worth the extra hundred odd bucks, or should I go with the V rating for less money? this is my dillemma

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Isn't is rediculous how freaking worked up we can get over tires???? I probably won't sleep tonight!!!! So many CHOICES! GRRRR

[SW03ES]

The problem is that we love our cars so much we want to put the best tires on them we can.

Tires make a huge difference on this car too, trust me. Its worth doing your due dilligence before you decide.

Dark- I wouldn't worry too much about the difference between the H and the V rated in the Turanza, and it definately wouldn't make me buy the Falkens over the Turanzas just because they're V rated.

Here's my guess on how these tires compare. My bet is the Turanzas are smoother and quieter. The V rated tire moreso than the H rated probably, but both moreso than the Falkens.

Basically as tires go up in speed rating they get lighter and the sidewalls are reinforced to improve their regidity. Typically a V rated tire will run smoother on a car like this than an H rated tire or lower simply because thats what the suspension geometry is designed around. Another thing to remember is tires with high treadwear ratings ALWAYS are made of harder rubber compounds. Harder rubber compounds = a louder and rougher ride. Its a tradeoff. The speed rating H vs V is an important factor in how the tires will behave on the car, but not AS important as the individual tire itself.

A tire like the MXV4 uses a unique Silica tread compound that afford long life and gives back an uncharacteristically smooth ride and low rolling resistance. This is part of the reason for their cost. Even Michelin has abandoned the silica tread compound in the latest MXV4 S8 so they can offer them at a lower cost.

Does that help?

[Darkjester]

sure does help, but now my next option, I decided to go with the Ls-H, I simply cant spend almost $200 a tire for a 9 year old car (even though I keep it running like a 2005 ) , but now my bridgestone guy is trying to tell me these new firestone afinnity h30'S? are actually a better tire. The reason I bring this up is these supposedly have a silica based compound similar to the michies, but because they are trying to redeem the Firestone name, they are less expensive than the Bridgestone Turanzas! I think I will put the Turanzas on and if I hate them try the affinity. I really wish I could try the v rated Turanzas but at that price point I should go with the michies. The only problem being I have heard nothing but bad things about the MXVs in snow and wet pavement. So in having said all that, I thank you all for your input and will continue to follow this tread, as soon as I have them on I will post to let you guys know. Thanks again for all the input.

[SW03ES]

No problems with my MXV4s in wet weather, don't know about the snow yet.

I wouldn't go for the Firestones. Odds are if they're trying to sell them the profit margin is higher on them too, hence why he's pushing them.

[Darkjester]

yeah, I thought about margin too, I was in retail for 10 years and I figured that. but then when I went around back ( a little detective work ) I saw 3 of the 5 cars in the fenced employee lot had the Firestones on them. so my forst thought is, well they cant be crap right? but then I REALLY thought about it-- if the margin is higher than the employee price is lower, so if you get your tires at cost ( and the cars were 1. a 2005 chevy 2. a '98 or '99 accord and.... wait for it.. An '85 to '89 Cutlass Calais! So I think if I had any of those type of cars-- great for what they are, but not our Lexis or Bimmers or Benzes ,etc.. plus an amazing employee price then yes. the Firestones are my tire! But I am back to the Turanzas. after all that. God. I do obsess about my car. But then again, none of us would be on this site if we didnt love our cars! Thanks a million guys! (and girls)

[Lexusfreak]

THis topic is HUGE! But guys, flat out, I am putting tires on my 96 es300 on friday. I am right now between the Falkens (amazing price point ) and the bridgestone Ls-H ( like everything I have heard in reviews ) But I cant find which is better in rain and snow. I realize nothing will beat real snow tires but i have no garage to store anything so all season is what its got to be right now. I live in N.E. Ohio ( cleveland ) so we do get a ton of rain and a bunch of snow. I am at my wits end and any input would be helpfull. Thanks.

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Dark, you will want the Goodyear Triple Treads, the Falkens & the Bridgestone's LS-H's in that order. If snow is a major concern, go with the GY Triple Treads (H speed rated). ;)

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?ti...re1=yes&place=8

[Lexusfreak]

No problems with my MXV4s in wet weather, don't know about the snow yet.

I wouldn't go for the Firestones. Odds are if they're trying to sell them the profit margin is higher on them too, hence why he's pushing them.

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I agree, stay very clear of the Firestones. B)