RX400h

To put things in perspective, the new Mazda 5 mini-minivan, which weighs 3100 lbs, averages 23 MPG - considered quite good for a vehicle of this weight.

Sorry to revive an old topic but I have a question and a comment.

Question: From the first post, it says:

Torque:

ML350: 258 lbs-ft

RX400h: 650 lbs-ft

Is it really true for RX? I don't remember reading this figure anywhere online or in my manual.

Comment: The ML rides like a truck because its built on a truck frame instead of crossovers like RX or X5. On a side note, even an RX cannot beat the handling of an X5...that is a "man's SUV" ;) And it has panoramic moonroof...sweet. Wish my car had that.

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The 650 lbs-ft of torque figure was taken from Car & Driver's review. The exact page may be seen here:

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?se...2&page_number=2

Regarding a "man's SUV", the RX400h handily out-accelerates the 6 cylinder BMW X5. The 8-cylinder version is about even with the RX. Of course, if money is no object and hence, neither is fuel mileage, the Porsche Cayenne turbo tops the list as fastest SUV (and it probably handles at least as well as the X5). :o

Buy the Volkswagen toureg (spelling?) Rated #1 for off-road SUV!

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...and also the most unreliable SUV of them all - stay away!

It's been getting nippy at 55-60F here in the early morning hours, but I'm looking forward to December days when we will be cranking up the seat heaters! Gas milage has been fairly steady at 25 MPG-gentle driving during the week (her)and my rocket-power punches every now and then during the weekends.

Even if the battery is low - there is no problem in using an electric motor only reverse.  If required, the gas engine will start and provide electric generation power thru MG1 which then directs that electrical power to MG2 which moves the vehicle backwards.  The point here is that there is no direct mechanical means of providing torque from the gas engine to the wheels in reverse - it occurs only through electrical generation and consumption.

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This could very well be true; however, I still wonder how a Murano reverses, though.

I not only mentioned this issue to Lexus while filling out my satisfaction/comments form they sent me, but I also told the Lexus rep. who called me, shortly after we picked up our RX400h. Audi has an adjustable-height hatch in one of their newest vehicles, so I imagine it won't be long before Lexus does the same. We have to park our RX outside of the garage after grocery shopping and then drive it in after unloading; luckily, we get very little rain here in Southern Cali.

Still, they should've done a bit more homework before deciding how high the hatch would reach. Clearly, the majority of us are having a problem.....

Have you tried backing up at 20mph ?

I can accelerate up to 25 mph foward on the batts, so they do have a lot of torque.

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Call me a skeptic, but I find it hard to believe if your battery is low, the RX400h will not allow you to reverse up a hill. How does the Nissan Murano power itself in reverse? It too, has a CVT, no?

I would think that there HAS to be a reverse gear. After all, how could the batteries provide enough power to back up a steep driveway or hill at speeds greater than 20 MPH? A steep hill, combined with a 4500 lb vehicle has GOT to require engine power, IMO.

RX330 owners have reported highway fuel mileage of close to 30, so if you are driving primarily on no-to-little traffic highway miles, buying a hybrid RX makes less sense. Its huge advantage over the RX330 comes when city/stop&go driving represents at least 50% of your driving. RX330s, as Pat Bedard states, tend to get 16-17 MPG under "city"-type conditions.

Still, as LCB mentioned, it's refreshing to hear counter-bashing by an automotive expert for a change!

Getting a bit tired of hearing the same old comments about hybrids, Pat Bedard, the well-known C&D writer and mechanical engineer wrote:

"You can write your check for 50 large, arrive home in a shiny black Ford F-250 Harley-Davidson Super Duty; its dubs bulging out the rear fenders like steroid-infused biceps, and no one on this staff will say, "Boy, you're never going to get your money's worth out of that thing."

Or maybe you ante up for the Rddie Bauer option on your Ford Expedition. You won't be scolded on these pages, told that you'll have to sit on those leather seats for an extra 50,000 miles to recoup your foolish outlay for Eddie.

But show a little enthusiasm for hybrids? We purse the puritan lips and say, "You know, the mileage is not that great. You'll have to drive it till it's as used as Willie Nelson to save gas enough to get your cost back."

The knock on hybrids takes two forms, both of which I hear often around the water cooler. First, they say it is not a real solution to energy consumption because the makers lose money on each one they sell; therefore, hybrids are unsustainable. Ford's hybrid machinery is similar to system Toyota uses in the Prius, which sold 53,308 units in the first half of 2005, putting it on track to top 100,000 in the U.S. over the year. That would make it solidly profitable according to the Ford yardstick (Profits of low-cost hybrids are realized at the 70,000 vehicle mark).

The other knock on hybrids is that they don't get the fuel economy promised by the EPA numbers. Oh, yes they do, if you drive them as the government drives them on the standard test. Of course, I drove my own routes at my own speeds during my week in a hybrid Lexus RX400h. About half was on freeways, sometimes at speeds above 80; at least 75 miles were in rain. I measured 25.3 mpg over 468 miles. Maybe that doesn't sound miraculous, but when we tested a conventional RX330 (C/D, July 2003), the C/D-observed fuel economy was 17 mpg.

In fact, neither Lexus matched its EPA rating in our hands. But the hybrid outperformed the conventional by 8 mpg.

....If most of your driving is urban slow-and-go, a hybrid will probably do well for you. If you commute on free-flowing interstates, forget hybrids. It's that simple."

Now I maintain that the majority of us working stiffs live in fairly dense cities and encounter traffic on a daily basis. Thus, driving a hybrid makes much more sense than many people realize. In fact, I was recently in Seattle, Washington and was ASTOUNDED at the massive traffic jams, seeming coming from all directions and at any time of the day - big city + high gas prices=ideal hybrid conditions.

I never heard about these. Does anyone have a link to info?

....and Mercedes keeps insisting that its diesels are the answer........

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The Germans might be on to something...

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The headlines in today's paper announced that American vehicles are now more reliable than German vehicles. Mercedes and Volkswagen appear to be dragging them down quickly, but BMWs have not been doing well, either. In Car & Driver's recent small sedan comparison, their 330 (BMW) had numerous problems - a certain warning sign of reliability problems down the road (This was a new model).

Regarding diesels, has anyone noticed diesel fuel prices at the pump lately? I'm seeing 50 cents per gallon higher prices than those of regular gas. That's a full 30 cents higher than super-unleaded!

Ours has had ZERO problems since delivery in April. Nissan's Quest has been a big problem for Nissan. Unfortunately, many folks don't research before they buy - two people I know recently bought Nisaan Quests - bad choice at this time....

....and Mercedes keeps insisting that its diesels are the answer........

Welcome aboard! Don't forget to check the tires' air pressure when you get home or better yet, ask the dealership to double-check before you leave. They tend to forget to lower the pressure and the potential result is heavy tire wear in the center of each overinflated tire.

Enjoy!

That's a great comparison list, QT! I noticed that the ground clearance listed for the Highlander is quite a bit more than that of the RX400h. The overall height of each is similar, so I'm not sure why there is a significant difference.

I received this issue as well. The interesting thing is that the Highlander produced lower fuel mileage numbers than the RX400h, yet the RX400h is heavier by 100 lbs. They did mention that the RX was quieter and better riding. Its disadvantage is that it doesn't handle quite as well. The other thing I noticed is that the RX offers heated seats, the Highlander, nada.

As expected, both vehicles trounced the Mercedes and BMW competition. No competitor came close to the gas milage figures of the two hybrids. As was mentioned, many are extreme gas guzzlers.

BTW, I don't baby the RX and yet get a consistent 25 MPG.

Dear Forum Readers:

Coming back to this eternal question about the cost-effectiveness and other economic analysis of the RX400h, I think I personally made up my mind about it.

Lexus / Toyota could have probably made a hybrid SUV which generated consistently >40MPG real life mileage. But, the car would have probably enjoyed a 0-60 acceleration time of 10+ seconds, towing capacity of 1,000lbs, and other limitations which are represented in the competitive hybrid designs.

OH WAIT. Actually, I've been able to achieve 35-40MPG if I forced my RX400h to drive like a Prius. Or a Honda Insight. Or a Mercury Mariner. Or a Ford Escape for that matter. I just drive with "feather-lite" acceleration and braking, and get 10+ second 0-60.

BUT. By the slight depression of the pedal, I can achieve 650 ft-lbs of torque, comparable to a Chevy Corvette Z08 and compete with $70k+ super SUVs like the new Mercedes ML500, the BMW X5 4.8, and the venerable Porsche Cayenne S.

AND. The kicker for me is that at WORST, I've achieved 22 MPG. That was in the beginning. Lately, with a mix of optimized fuel economy driving and race car driving on the 101, my mileage has increased to 27MPG.

So was this an economically a sound purchase? 110%. There are no comparable vehicles out there that DON'T compromise on performance for gas mileage, while also providing the flexibility of maximizing fuel economy.

Another satisfied customer....

Peter

Yes, well said!

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I have a great time puttering along when an X5 driver, shortly after noticing the "H" after the RX400, pulls into the left lane to blast by me. Not wanting to avoid "shock" therapy, I floor the gas pedal and rocket ahead. This happens every now and again and I still chuckle every time it does.....and we still average 25 MPG, heh, heh!

They pick it up from your HOUSE?? AND take it back to your house?????

Is this free?? LOL I have to take them down there myself!! No one ever told me they would do it for me!

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I never heard of this type of service!

This happens occasionally with heat-treated parts. I doubt that it is a widespread problem or I'm sure others would have had similar issues. Still, it's good that you were persistant. This reminds me of what happened to my father many years ago. After feeling sharp pains in his chest, he went to the hospital, only to be told that he had heartburn and should take an antacid after returning home. He insisted upon seeing a heart specialist who, after running further tests, admitted my father to the hospital immediately for triple bypass heart surgery.

The moral of the story: Stand your ground if you know you are right!

...our RX400h's tires were overinflated when we picked up the vehicle. Apparently, the factory inflates to maximum pressure so that flat spots do not develop in the tires from sitting in one position for extended periods, both on the way to the dealership and on the dealership's lots. This was explained to me by the service consultant yesterday. He figures that occasionally, the techs forget to lower the pressure by bleeding the tires, just before the customer buys the vehicle.

Just curious, do either of these systems trip the radar/ laser detectors ("fuzzbusters") in the cars in front of them?  That would suck, you set the laser cruise to follow the vehicle in front, then the slam the brakes because they think they hit a speed trap!

Nate

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I would hope that they use a frequency that is not within the typical police radar bandwidth. Otherwise, the Lexus radar would could as a jammer to the police units. Ditto for laser transmitters.

Like everything else in life it always depends on who you ask.  At the end of this posting are the URL's for two articles (one on the X5, the other on the RX400).  Based on these guys the Lexus does 0-60 in 7.2 seconds, the X5 in 7.1.  I would, however comment that when you get down to tenths of a second, it no longer becomes a mechanical issue but one of how good the driver is.

We live in a fairly rural area and the X5 gets about 19 mpg around here (on premium fuel).  But when you buy a BMW with a big V8, you're not really counting mpg, are you?  Before the X5, my wife was driving a BMW 750 with a V12.  She still tells me that she misses the great top end that the V12 had as compared with the 4.4 (she really knows how to push a vehicle  ;).

There isn't a BMW I have owned over the years (and I've had quite a few) that I could honestly say I bought because of it's practical advantages.  The darn cars are just way too much fun to drive.  The economy may be marginal, the backseat to small (or in my Z8's case, non-existent) or any of a number of issues, but there is nothing to compare with firing one up on a clear day, hearing the perfectly tuned exhaust rumble, and pushing the car's limits on some back road somewhere.

In the meantime, as I leave the house, I will pat my Z8 on the back as I get into the RX400h for a drive into town.  That should say it all  :) .

I agree that the numbers are close, but if you want to know what the potential of a vehicle is, check with Car & Driver. They clocked the new Corvette Z06 at 0-60 MPH in 3.6 seconds :o .

If it were 10 years ago, I would agree that everyone looking at big V8 SUVs could care less about economy, but these are times of rapidly accelerating fuel costs and a significant number of new vehicle shoppers are looking at EPA figures. Personally, I would not have purchased an SUV if the 400h or Highlander hybrid were not available. Only my (previously owned) 68 Corvette has generated more comments from friends, neighbors, and strangers. The most commonly asked question at this time is "How's the gas mileage?"

Regarding your wife's thirst for power: Lexus will be coming out with an LS600h - 500HP and the economy of a six cylinder (or at least a very efficient small V8).

In a nutshell, if you want a real high performance vehicle, I have to lean towards the X5.  Acceleration and handling both go to the X5. 

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Actually, according to Car & Driver, the RX400h out-accelerates even the 8-cylinder BMW X5 [6.9 seconds(RX400h) vs 7.1 seconds(X5)] and trounces it in fuel mileage (the X5 achieves only 16/22 EPA numbers). Also, as you noticed, the RX400h has a smoother, more comfortable ride. From what I've experienced, most women prefer the smoother ride over ultimate handling. We weighed fuel mileage and reliability (the Lexus RXs are Consumer Reports top picks) over handling for our SUV purchasing decision and with gas prices soaring beyond what anyone had expected even last year, we're happy we made this decision.

Still, if everyone thought the way we do...........

Where, pray tell, would you fit a natural gas tank...on the roof (like a city bus)? Dang, that would look pretty weird!