jainla

It's a very simple fix and now my cocoon of serenity is complete at last!!!!!

Good job; yes it's annoying when the car is so quiet except for some weird unidentified noise. Love the sanding block! I"m sure an unscrupulous dealer would have tried to change the whole console out...

My dad had a '96 STS a few years ago. He was the second owner and I think the car had 22k miles on it when he bought it.

It was a nice car for what it was; the engine was powerful and the seats were comfy. There were some cheap interior touches though; the door handles and locking controls were the same as the Pontiac Grand Am I had driven in drivers ed a few years earlier; and some of the garnishes on the pillars would occasionally come off and have to be re-installed.

By the end of its time with him the AC was consistently out and the CEL light refused to go out. There was some problem with the engine ECU that occasionally reduced the mileage around town to single digits. Also while the car was still under warranty they replaced the transmission once and the transmission ECU twice; also the rear passenger compartment fan developed a buzzing noise (which I cured a couple times by giving it a good swift conk on the head). The car was also in Florida which can be tough on cars; and it saw lots of stop and go driving. He replaced it with a RAV4 for business (the Caddy didn't hold enough, he said). While he might miss the V8 he doesn't miss the repair bills or the crappy gas mileage.

One of my former co-workers had another STS (it was a few years older). The heater core leaked consistently and eventually he sold the car rather than repair it. The Northstar engine is a great engine but the car around it doesn't seem to last.

The Bose system had a 12 CD player but all in all the sound was much more boom and sizzle than real quality ( I find many Bose systems to sound this way; good at first but then lacking in refinement after a couple days of listening). The LS sound systems are no comparison; they may not 'bump' like the Bose system but they deliver very natural; balanced sound. And almost anything sounds great through them. Some people prefer the Nakamichi to the newer Levinson systems but both are probably the best OEM systems that were then available.

But you can always turn off the radio and just listen to the refined roar of the V8 under power; when you gun it it's one of the best soundtracks ever.

Hopefully, I'll see next Tue. Sep.18th.

That's when I drive down to Toronto to pick up the car ... its taking longer than expected for Lexus to get in

the parts to repair the parking brake.

I only drive around 5k per year, so this car should serve my needs very well.

I don't know anything about stereos, so I don't know what line level outputs are, but since no one makes an adapter harness for my old car, I went with the external ISO speaker to avoid tapping the stereo wiring harness.

Basically one of the outputs from the Parrot is a line-level (i.e. CD changer or ipod direct out) connection. You might be able to splice those wires into a pair of RCA jacks and do the whole silent-cd thing to connect the output of the kit (and the ipod when it's playing) to the stereo.

Did you have any problems with wire length with your 3200 like I did? My mic was way too short, and the mute and power wires were probably 18" which is waaaaaay too short. Does the lady in your Parrot have a British accent too?

Yeah I had to extend the mic cable; it was about 2 feet shorter than it needed to be. I actually found a 2.5mm extension cable so that was easy. The wires seem to be designed so that the blue box will sit behind or below a standard DIN car stereo; mine is at the rear of the center console box so it was too far away. I had to build a custom harness to connect the Parrot to the phone connector under the center console anyway; I think I added about 3 feet of length. I think she does have a British accent but I've changed the voice recognition so it runs off the Blackberry as I didn't want to record all the voicetags for the names in the phonebook. I like the ringtones though; sounds like an old school car phone.

I really do like browsing my music from the Parrot's screen. The iPod/USB/Stereo input cable is in the lower console; that's the one cable/wire that they made a good length. I'm thinking about relegating my iPod shuffle to car duty, so that I can leave it in the lower console and not have to plug and unplug all the time.

Yes I did the same thing after I resurrected my old iPod; it's now the car pod and it pretty much lives in the glovebox full time; i haul it back into the house every so often to sync it up. It's nice not to have to haul the ipod back and forth from the car and I'm sure it's easier on the cables and connectors. Also I figure since I've already digitized the music it's easier to manage all of it from itunes rather than a USB stick or some other storage mechanism. I'm liking this new digital media world!

I haven't had any trouble with the voice commands. I just tried a few, and it understood each of them without any trouble at all.

That's good to know; one of the reasons I picked the Blackberry over the iPhone was the speaker independent voice recognition; if more kits had that back then I might have picked the iPhone instead.

I hope I can get someone to go drive my car and call me so that I can hear how it sounds.

Call your home answering machine; that's what I did when I was testing mic placement. You won't have a full duplex conversation but you can hear how your voice sounds on the other side.

This kit has more features than I thought I wanted, but I like being able to plug my phone in to the cable to listen to podcasts (and not have to burn them on to cd's or go through the tape adaptor).

Yeah and it also charges the phone which is a nice bonus. I bet with the Bluetooth on the battery won't last long; I'm always surprised how quickly mine runs down after a couple of long conversations in the car. I think the Mki has line-level outputs so you still have the option to patch into the LS's audio system and listen to ipod/iphone audio through the speakers; then be covered for calls with the external speaker. And having the remote and the display means you could hide the ipod/iphone and still flip amongst the tracks.

Where did you stash the phone and connector? Center console box? Glovebox?

Now ... if I can only get Blake to buy that Bury activeBase and activeCradle for the iPhone I found on eBay. Blake ... spend mo' money! The activeBase on eBay is $73.49 and all the System 9 snap-in cradles are $64 each.

Yeah that's the cheapest I've seen; which is ridiculous b/c the mount plate in the UK sells for something like 20 pounds; although with shipping I'm sure it would be closer to $40. There's got to be some way to get that stuff on this side of the pond without paying a huge markup...Canada?

I think it's time for you to upgrade those prehistoric phones you have! The 3G is only $200! I know that will get you something like 40 Nokias, but it's time to get some modern technology! haha

I'm afraid Blake is right Jim. If you want a Blackberry you can go on Amazon and get the Bold for $150; or the Curve for even less. Their hardware subsidies are really high. Also AT&T is selling (or was selling) refurbished iPhones on their site for $100.

Come over to the Dark Side Jim! Come to the Wireless Wonderland!

Wow that looks really cool. You're the first person I've heard of who's installed one of the Mki series kits. Good job!

Glad to see the contact sync works with the iPhone; my brother has been looking for a BT solution for his car and I was curious as to if the Parrot kits would work with it. Parrot seems to be really good about releasing firmware updates to correct problems and respond to user issues. All the initial issues I had with my contact sync have disappeared after a couple updates.

Are you happy with the sound quality? Have you tried the voice command functions yet? How do they work?

When I was car shopping, I was choosing between my LS and a '99-ish BMW 540i with a 6 speed. I would have enjoyed driving the BMW much more perhaps, but the maintenance costs would have destroyed me!

No doubt. Also in my experience BMWs just don't last. Look at how many 20 yr old BMWs you see compared to Lexus or even Mercedes; it's just no contest.

Both cars in question are California cars... Makes a little more sense as they don't have the cold weather extremes as many other places. Not to sure about the Blue with Blue leather. LOL...

These cars are a little low mileage for the year; so cosmetically they might be in pretty good shape however you'll definitely need to do stuff like the timing belt; water pump, complete fluids flush. That's probably $1500 right there. New tires? Another $600. So know what you're getting into before you buy.

I mean obviously caveat emptor these are used cars so you take your chances; but you've stacked the deck significantly in your favor if you choose an LS. You've got no camshaft position sensors, MAF sensors, TB Actuators, Engine Wiring harnesses, duovalves, pneumatic pumps etc (the list goes on and on) to worry about.

I think it also depends on where you are...if you can find an indie mechanic whom you trust and are comfortable buying parts on the internet it's possible to have a lot of the routine maintenance done for much less money than the dealer. I would think that in NoCal there are plenty of Toyota/Lexus indies. Lexus parts cost more than Toyota parts but not much more.

Also like killerfatty said some of the simple stuff you can do yourself. Case and point the dealer in BH wanted $11 A BULB (not including labor) to replace all of my tail lamps after 2 burnt out (the LS430 has 8, do the math). I was able to buy all off them online for $30 and do it myself. Ditto the air filter; almost $80 to replace at the dealer vs. buying the part for $35 and spending 5 minutes of my time. Some of us I think like tinkering with the car so we enjoy these things.

Remember though these cars were $50-60K new and when something big has to be done it can get expensive; they are more complex than a Corolla or a Camry (i.e. avoid the air suspension). So the TCO will be higher than a Camry or Corolla of that vintage (don't forget gas will be a factor) but it's not like you're buying a Ferrari. Also if you take the car to the mechanic and have them do a PPI they'll tell you what surprises may be in store.

Still you could do far worse...i.e. anything made in Germany during that time. I see people on the benzworld forums all the time asking "Do you guys think a 1995 S500 is a good first car for a 16 yr old?" The answer always comes back "yes, it's a great first car-- if you come from a family of MB mechanics or you (and or your parents) are made of money."

The LS is not that kind of car.

Thanks for all the input guys, it was more than I expected. Jim and Thomas seemed to confirm some of my suspicions about buying a old LS. I have quite a few good candidates to look at and I guess I knew a 18 year old LS was probably too risky for my current situation, but I wanted to check with some more experienced drivers first :D. Again thanks for all the help.

Here's the 2 listings for anyone curious.

http://tinyurl.com/aqej9e

http://tinyurl.com/d5j6po

Are these air struts or regular shocks? $3k seems a lot to pay for just shocks. Were there any other symptoms like low ride height or excessively nautical ride motions?

Completely absurd! My dad's 98 had air struts which are much more prone to failure and it was fine at 170k. My ES is at 120k, struts are fine...

It doesn't say what color the wire is; but on the LL/tel harness it's wire 15--see my post to figure out which one of the 2 LL connectors it's on.

I drove the car this morning and muted the stereo with both the LL system and the phone. Nothing changed on the audio screen; it's a little odd I was able to cycle both the sound and ASR buttons while the system was playing; it's like it didn't know it was being muted.

If the display is going wonky there is another possibility; the amp is fine and the center screen ECU or Tape/radio player ECU is fried and sending out random mute signals. You could try disconnecting the radio and or cd/tape player and see if that makes a difference. There are directions for removing both I think in this forum or the AV forums; you'll need a 10mm socket wrench and extender to get the bolts out.

I did find a troubleshooting guide for speaker shorts; I've attached it. I'm not sure this is what your problem it would be an easy thing to rule out.

I see a bunch of ML amps on ebay right now; although I don't know which particular amp fits the LS430. I see what you are saying about the warranty issue..although some ebay places claim to have one on their products.

yeah I know but there has to be a simple solution to this

Yes and no. It could be a fuse that is going; or it could be a chip that's fried. You're not really troubleshooting a car as much as a computer system at this point.

Maybe DCFISH can help. Where are you DCFISH?

audio28.pdf

Hey Speedemon I thought I had a schematic for the ML system but I can't find it. You should go to the techinfo.lexus.com site and subscribe for a day; you can download pretty much anything the dealer can about the car. I seem to remember there were a couple troubleshooting guides up there.

I have heard some people say that the ML amps are undercooled for the amount of power they use; so you may be overheating. i suspect the amp runs whenever the car is on b/c the nav system is also patched into it. Does the nav system still give voice directions when the audio is on the fritz?

If you've connected the 2 connectors that connect to the car together then you've pretty much connected it as it came from the factory. The LL system should no longer be a factor.

The mute function for the phone and the LL system works by shorting the TMUTE wire to the ground; so when that happens anywhere all audio is muted. It's possible that a wiring fault somewhere else is causing it; you might try pulling the CD/Tape player just to make sure that the wiring back there looks ok.

The ML no audio issue seems to be a common symptom with these amps; so yours might have just died; it does seem to be temperature dependent which would point to something heating up (or cooling down) and breaking a circuit somewhere. I haven't heard of anybody opening up the amp but there was a company in one of the other posts that claimed to be able to repair them.

You can also look on Ebay; sometimes I see the systems up there.

Has anyone ever opened up one of these amps? I'm thinking there might be a cold solder joint or something that makes a connection when it wants to, although, logic would dictate that it wouldn't be something like that only because while it is working it would still work if you cycled the key, which most of the time it does not.

Jainla if what you say is true that it is a bus and everything has a mute function well then the question I have is this - is there any mute function that would mute all speakers when active other than the LL system? If the LL ( Lexus Link for people searching posts) has been looped to itself with its 2 white connectors connected to itself is there anything else that needs to be disconnected/bypassed to remove the muting capability of the LL system? Since there is no sound in any of the speakers what would kill them all and make the stuff in the Audio/Sound menu disappear.

Jainla, also do you know how the mute functions work? Are they switched via ground or do they require 12v? I would imagine ground side switching but then again what do I know, if they are ground switched then I could (with the schematics that you might be able to dig up) clip all the mute wires so they'd never be able to be grounded to rule all of them out.

Does anyone still have a Lexus link system that can tell me whether or not when it kicks in or when it tries to, whether or not the ASL button in Audio disappears or the buttons in the sound menu become locked with the midrange disappearing as well. Posting another topic it's here http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...showtopic=55536

Again does anyone have the diagnostics for this system '01 LS430 UL with Mark Levinson audio and Nav?

Hey Speedemon...I'm running out for dinner so a detailed examination of your problem may have to wait until tomorrow or Sunday but a few thoughts:

The ML (and I think Pioneer systems) don't use a conventional power/audio connection like typical CD changers do; there is an AVC-LAN bus that all the components connect to. I think EVERY component has some kind of muting wire that connects back to the amp somehow; and they signal each other to mute (or pause) when another unit is playing. I have another schematic for the ML sound system as well; when I have a moment I'll dig it out. I think someone in the AV forum discussed this; it might be worthwhile to do a search.

The mute point for the radio/phone/LL interface is in the connector for the LL system; it's pin#15 on one of the LL connectors. I think it's the one that's NOT attached to the car. If you disconnect them you'll see one of the connectors only has 6 leads; this is the connector going out to the speaker and the mic (with power and shielding leads); the mute wire is in the other one --Connector H (I think there are 12 or 13 leads). You can disconnect this and see if it affects anything; the rear door speaker won't work as well as the mic for the nav and ASL systems but it might be useful in pinpointing where the short is. There should be something indicating where pin#1 is; it's on the right side and the 11-20 pins are underneath it starting 11-20 R to L. There are no leads in spaces 9-10 or 18-20 in Connector H.

When the muting is in effect for the phone there isn't any 'phone' indication on the display or other screens; so if the amp is getting a fake phone muting signal it's possible that you won't see anything. The buttons on the display disappearing however is a bit troubling; to my recollection I've never seen that happen (although I did have all my bass/mid/treb adjusters go down to nothing; but that's only happened once).

A couple questions/thoughts:

Is there any water leaking into the trunk at all? You may have a short somewhere and there is a lot of wiring in the trunk where it could be.

Bear in mind that the LL system has 2 connectors; one to the car's amp and power leads and one to the rear doorspeaker and mic; is it completely out of the loop? Try adjusting the volume or playing recordings on the control box on the ceiling; if the radio still mutes then it's still connected to the amp and not completely out of the loop (also the lights shouldn't light up anymore).

Did this car have the cellular phone at one time? If you look on the left side of the trunk beneath the floor under that small side panel that's where the ECU would be. You'd want to disconnect that as well; it's in the same loop as the Lexus Link system.

How old is the battery? I know the electronics in these cars are very sensitive to the condition of the battery; if it's dying the system voltage can change and things go haywire.

Have you tried disconnecting the battery for 10 minutes and completely rebooting the car? Some of the early ML amps were a little flaky; it's not completely out of the question for it to be giving up the ghost; although it sounds like this one likes things better cold than warm. A reboot won't hurt anything although your radio presets might disappear.

Try those things and see what happens. When I have a moment I'll look up the schematic and see if there's any other possible avenues of investigation.

I know when you see the destination on the map sometimes there is an "Info" button that pops up next to the name for POIs so you can confirm the address; that would have the phone number.

I use the turn mode when I'm driving (you see a list of upcoming turns on the right hand side); usually that has the address as the last turn so you'd see it if you were less than 3 or 4 turns away.

I would STAY AWAY from TOY-LEX. I ordered a new shell with electronics for my 2004 ES330.. and the shell broke in 4 days (the screw got stripped and won't stay together now). The loop part where you attach to keychain broke 5 days later. VERY CHEAP! I contacted the toy-lex people by email and phone.. and they will not respond... I'm trying BBB or something now.. these guys should not be in business.

Sewell in Dallas also has good keys. They will cut them for you for free if you give them the VIN number and they seem to be good quality.

The DVD drive is a DVD-Rom drive so it won't play regular DVDs.

However in Japan the JDM Celsior was sold with a DVD player option; it might be possible to replace the ML CD player with something that plays DVDs.

You might still be locked out when the car is moving but I have seen someone plug a DVD player into a Gen II GS430 Nav system and have it work. DCFISH might be able to help you out.

The Nav DVD player will not play DVD video. In fact, some people have had issues with their nav after trying it. I would not recommend messing with the Nav player.

Newer models are designed to run DVD format discs and their use is specified in their owners manuals. I suspect your LS is too early to utilize DVD playback. Lexus is always a bit behind in the techy side of things. :(

It is likely that the tilt and telescope motors were not replaced with the redesigned improved onces under the relevant TSIBs while the car was within warranty. I fairly certain I've posted the TSIBs in the past here. There is an additional TSIB to replace the flexible cable coupling in the steering shaft with a more rigid part which I think has a u-joint.

The cost having the dealer apply all the tilt/telescope TSIBs when the car is out of warranty is way more than $1000.

Also I think there was also a TSB about a too-tight wiring harness; something about how when the column moves it pulls on the harness and somehow cancels the tilting motion. You might want to ask your dealer if your car was affected I think it was late LS400's and early LS430's (the design is similar).

Does the tilt function work normally when you manually adjust it?

That's the advantage of going Bluetooth; if you change phones frequently it's a standard interface so almost any phone will work.

Unless it's an iPhone!

So true. My iPhone is the reason I haven't put a carphone in my 99 since there are always new bluetooth problems with every firmware release. I'm thinking about getting a CK7Wi (which has bluetooth and pop-port hook-ups) so that if/when the iPhone and bluetooth don't work, I can get a pop-port Nokia that will, and it won't be a total waste of money!

I saw someone (they might be called Mobile fun?) ) makes a bluetooth cradle replacement for the Nokia CARK series kits. It replaces the original cradle with a bluetooth enabled universal cradle that lets you upgrade without ripping everything out.

In the last year or so everybody seems to have gotten their act together on the bluetooth front; the hands=free profile has been around for a while now and finally seems to have stabilized. Streaming stereo audio and higher data rates seem to be what everybody is excited about now.

Maybe I should have rephrased my statement. I want the sound( music) to be muted when a call comes through. Whether they install a separate speaker or not is alright with me.

1990LS400, I am kind of surprised that they are doing this still here. Even in 1999 any decent aftermarket phone installer, certainly in the UK would be easily able to fit the system to the car speaker and the sound system.

This is true if it's a simple DIN radio that's all in the dash; and the Parrot and Nokia kits include the ISO connectors that would let you do that. But with satellite radio, Nav systems etc the sound systems of today are much more complex than they were back then. Also many luxury cars (the Ls 430 included) spread the parts out all over; the radio tuner and power amp for the Pioneer and ML sound systems is actually in the trunk (next to the NAV computer). This makes tapping into the speakers a royal pain unless you want to run wiring back and forth to the head unit; or unless the installer splices into the car's wiring harness.

Jim is right the replacement parts for the ML are unbelievably expensive if you buy them new from the dealer; i think the amp itself is several thousand bucks.

If you could find the '03 with the Nokia kit this might work:

http://www.viseeo.com/ugC_ShowroomItem_Det...p;hidClickNum=Y

Not so sure about the firmware though; but if you were to find one it might be worth a try.

Hi all,

I have 1992 Lexus ls400 and I am trying to fix my instrument cluster. I would like to know if any one knows where can I find the needles to buy if I need to changed them. please help.

Thanks

I would try Mikado Technology. They are in the bay area and they do climate control LCD rebuilds; they might be able to help you or tell you where to go:

http://www.mikadotechnology.com/

Based on y'all's experience, when she goes in for the 85 and 90k servicing, are therre any specific trouble spots which ought to be mentioned and checked??

Let's face it, I don't want to get stuck with a major repair next fall which should have been handled under the warranty. Or listen to my wife say, "I told you to ask about that." We generally drive cars until they become unreliable tansportation and do not now have a case of "New Car Fever". And our Lexus is our "newest" car and looks to be reliable into the future.

Thank y'all for any advice, recommendations, snide comments, etc.

Not that I can recall. The only long term maintenance issues for these cars is the air suspension; which it looks like your car doesn't have. There was a recall for the '04 models which results in a new transmission but I don't think there's anything of note on the '02 models. My LS is of similar age and mileage and I haven't had any issues; I've been out of warranty since '05.

Make sure they change the water pump as part of the 90k service; and you might want to change the idler pulley sometimes they tend to squeak. If the exterior mirrors stop folding in you might try to get the dealer to replace them; new they're $750 a pop; or $150 each on Ebay.

Also ask the dealer if there are any service bulletins or other mid-year fixes that apply to your car; if it's still under warranty they should do those too.

If you change the oil and the timing belt and don't drive the LS like a teenager it will last a long time. I do believe someone here mentioned seeing an LS from the mid 1990's with 600,000 miles; still with the original engine and transmission.

Is that long enough?

I guess the LS430 earlier models do not come with steering wheel controls either?

They do but they are tough to get to. The 'hook' button is actually hidden under the Voice Command button; there was an insert that replaces the Vol + - and Voice Command buttons with a new set of keys that include the phone button as well as replacing the volume +/- with the Phone's 1,2,3 speed dial buttons. Then you have to reprogram the radio to use those buttons for the phone instead of the radio volume control

I think the 'hook' button signal can be found on lead 5 of the 20 pin junction connector in the trunk but I can't be sure. The 1,2,3 commands might go over the AVC-LAN network somehow so who knows how you would trap those signals.

Also what is the best Parrot system around? If Parrot is the best?

It depends. If you are going to have an installer do the job then go with the systems they recommend; they're probably more comfortable installing what they sell.

For the DIY the 3 big options seem to be Motorola, Nokia and Parrot. I think Sony dropped their system.

The Motorola IHF 1000 is really popular and it's been around for a while. Audi and Lexus seem to be offering it as a retrofit option on their pre-bluetooth cars. I've seen several people on these forums, the Audiworld and MB forums fit them successfully.

Nokia makes some really nice systems but they are expensive and some of them aren't sold here.

Parrot is good about releasing firmware updates and car kits are a major line of business for them; they seem to release new models regularly and they aren't too expensive. I liked the Parrot b/c the little screen fits in the center console box; I didn't want to to be left out as a temptation for thieves. Raytel (now Ego Hands Free) and Bury also make kits of varying complexity but they not as common; the Raytel kits from what I remember are also expensive.

Screens are also becoming more common; some kits integrate them nicely with the control buttons. The Parrot was the first kit with a color screen when I did my install but now Nokia, Bury and Ego kits also have them. They are really useful during setup phase and for the caller ID. Some of the controller/screen combos might fit nicely on the lid of the sunglasses box; but I had the Lexus Link switches there and didn't want to remove them.

Jainla, you are one quick dude! Sprint - the company pretending to be a phone company. Yep, I visited my Lexus dealer in fall 2003 right after I bought my 2000 LS400 used and I was told they had just put all their spare phone parts and documentation in the dumpster. They just didn't want to talk about it. Or they were *BLEEP*ed that I didn't buy the 2004 LS430 I was offered by the salesman they fired during the negotiation or that I instead went off and bought a used 00 LS from another dealer. In fall 2003, the local Lexus people were unable to demonstrate that they could make a Bluetooth phone work with the 2004 LS430 Bluetooth system -- they told me to buy the car and trust that they would eventually be able to make it work. I may have said something like "Bull$#!+".

LOL! It's probably your post I remembered! I'm not that quick but I do have a good memory. :)

The 6340i is virtually identical in appearance to the 6310i except without Bluetooth and with AMPS and TDMA in addition to two GSM bands. Unlike the 6310i Lexus was pushing, the 6340i seemed to work "everywhere".

That sounds like a cool phone. My old AT&T Timeport AMPS/TDMA phone did work everywhere. Even in the back of beyond in rural Connecticut where nobody else had service. I miss that phone sometimes.

Jainla,

Speaking of Mercedes, I forgot that Mercedes offers charging cradles with antenna connections which are very similar to the ones from Bury and Lexus/Toyota dealers in the UK/Europe. It's the simpler "MHI Hands-Free Communication System - Telephone Cradle" -- you can see it on the US Mercedes website.

The MHI system is really cool. It's a standard interface that connects to the radio or the COMMAND system; as well as providing antenna and and power leads. Inside the cradles are electronics that interface with the MHI box and link to COMMAND; it downloads the phone book, call lists, etc and makes the phone work with the audio system. They have Motorola & Nokia cradles and an iPhone cradle, for an OEM system it's a surprising array of phones. It's probably why the cradles are so expensive.

They also have a couple Bluetooth adaptors that plug into the MHI connector; and one of them comes with a privacy handset. In Europe they even support rSAP (which almost no phone here supports) so that you can use the car's antenna without actually connecting your phone. BMW has a similar (maybe the same) system; I hate to say it but on technical sophistication it's probably one of the best OEM systems out there right now. The only problem is that it's expensive; the MHI prep (prewiring and the box for the MOST fiber network) is ~$1000; and then the cradles or BT adaptor is another $350. The reseller's site is here.

There is also a way to retrofit the pre- MHI system to work with bluetooth-you buy a 'puck' that plugs into the old V60i cradle and takes the place of the phone (someone also makes a firmware hack to make it work with the BMW and Audi systems). It's basically a bluetooth connection point for whatever phone you want. I bet sooner or later someone will do that for the Nokia 63XX phones; they were very popular and there's probably a large installed base that would like to upgrade without ripping out the existing system.

The hard-wired cradles still seem to be really popular in Europe; I know that for a while in the UK Bluetooth was technically illegal because you were 'broadcasting' on a band that needed a license to operate! Maybe also going down the Autobahn at 100+ mph you pass through the cells so quickly you need an external antenna? Who knows.

That's the advantage of going Bluetooth; if you change phones frequently it's a standard interface so almost any phone will work.

Unless it's an iPhone!

That might be changing; that's why the Gen 6 nav system is such big news. Parrot says that they can get the phone's address book to sync on the iPhone; the kit itself pulls the phonebook instead of waiting for you to send it from the phone (which of course Apple won't let you do). My old 8700 BB had a crippled bluetooth implementation very similar to the iPhone's and it did also sync with the Parrot kit. I think the G6 nav system might use the same protocol as I was able to pull out my entire address book without doing anything on the phone itself. This would put it on par with the MB and BMW systems which also support autosync.

Jim- I attached the photo of the connector under the LS 430 armrest; all the way on the top is the coax for the antenna (it's covered in tape). The big white one is the connector that terminates in the truck under the parcel shelf.

I'm doubting that many Lexus phone systems were installed in the 2001 - 2003 LS430 here in the US. (The phones were installed by Lexus dealers and not at the factory. Most Lexus cars prior to 2004 were prewired at the factory for phone systems.) By 2001, anyone who would be buying a new Lexus LS would likely already have a handheld cell phone and the phone that came with the Lexus system was not exactly state of the art.

None of the OEM systems had great phones; I believe the last Mercedes OEM phone was a Motorola V60. That's in 2005 when that phone was almost 6 years old. Also BMW was using some kind of timeport phone until 2004; another 5-6 year old phone.

I guess they design the phone systems with whatever phone are about to come out at that time; and then stick with it until the car electronics get revised. God help you if you lose one of those special OEM phones; I think they are like $1000 from the dealer.

Thanks a lot guys. It was very informative. I would be perfectly happy if I can get the phone to work through the car speaker system and be able to mute the sound system.

UK and Europe I think is more advanced in electronics than over here. In UK even a 1998 car with an integrated phone would be GSM and over here, at least in Canada it was not.

Do a lot of pre 2004 LS430s, come with factory fitted phones?

Thanks once again.

I drove 3 LS430s when i was shopping and none of them had an OEM phone. In mine the previous owner had taken apart one of those little speaker-in-a-box kits and installed the speaker in the center console box. It didn't mute anything but I bet it did the job (I could never figure out what phone it was for). You see them every once in a while on cars on Ebay but I don't think it was that popular.

GSM started in Europe as a way to get phones to work seamlessly across countries so for years they had much better coverage there than the US. Lexus was partnered with Sprint for the longest time; and the divorce was nasty. Apparently as soon as they went Bluetooth dealers threw out all the phone parts and stopped supporting the OEM units.

The '01-02 phones were Denso/Touchpoint 2200's. It's at best a crappy phone and I think they only run on the Sprint CDMA network. For '03 the phone was a Nokia 6300 series (for just that one year). I don't know if they partnered with a specific carrier or not; but those phones are still available for a variety of carriers. They also support bluetooth so you could use a headset with it when you're out of the car.

I know with Mercedes and BMWs the phones sold with OEM phone systems need special firmware to communicate with the electronics in the car; so I don't know if any Nokia 6300 phone would work with an '03. The electronics were similar so if you were really persistent you could try to find the hardware from an '03 and swap it into an '02. The Nav system in the '01 is slightly different so I'm not sure if it would work.

That's the advantage of going Bluetooth; if you change phones frequently it's a standard interface so almost any phone will work.

Ahh the age old Bluetooth question-- If you search in the Audio Video forum you'll find my complete instructions on how I wired the '01 LS for bluetooth. I used a Parrot kit and it works great; but tapping into the OEM wiring harness for the left rear door speaker is hairy (the wiring is in the trunk--you'll have to be handy with a soldering iron and comfortable taking your car apart). I didn't try to use the steering wheel controls; they are integrated into the radio electronics and the whole business sits on the AVC-LAN network.

There isn't a muting lead in the armrest (to answer your question Jim B) ) but there is an antenna connection under there (for the roof antenna). There is a muting lead one on the back of the stereo behind the CD player/radio in the center stack; I think it's the yellow wire in the 20 pin connector. If you log onto techinfo.lexus.com you can download the wiring schematics that will tell you where this wire is; as well as the switched and non-switched power leads.

You can now get a harness adaptor that converts the non-standard Toyota radio wiring harness to an ISO (Parrot compatible) harness: http://www.quickconnectproducts.com/. You'll still need to connect the Parrot kit to an external speaker somewhere but it's a clean and easy way to tap into the muting and power leads.

Jim is right in that any aftermarket system won't integrate with the Nav (you won't be able to dial from the nav screen) but most aftermarket kits have more features than the standard Toyota integration; auto-syncing of contacts and the ability to voice dial with your phone's voice-dial capability or the kit's. Newer kits have speaker-independent voice recognition. There was also a company (I think it might have been Raytel) that made a kit that DID appear on the Nav screen; but it wasn't integrated with the Nav system and was really expensive.

I figured out that Lexus UK OEM's the BURY phone cradles as the 'phone fitting kit'; they have charging connections and inductive antenna hookups for a variety of phones; I've been thinking about getting one but they are hard to find here.

FWIW-- I think the BMW bluetooth retrofit you're talking about is actually an OEM BMW component; it integrates into the wiring for the BMW Assist system (your car needs to be pre-wired for it) and uses that functionality to tap into the radio.

Good luck!