Sc300 Valve Lifters Leaking, Need Replace

[thombiz]

Hi folks, I'm new to the forum, but have been reading the posts for some time. Now, it looks like I need a little help. We bought our '95 SC300 about 5 years ago with 64,000 miles on it and from the beginning, the motor has had a problem with some of the hydrolic valve lifters leaking down when the car sets overnight .

When the car is first started in the AM, one or two cylinders would run rough until oil got to the lifter and it pumped up. Now, some of the lifters won't hold a pump, so the valves on one or two cylinders don't seem to be opening fully and the engine runs like it has a slight miss. Has any body else had this problem?

How hard is it to replace the lifters? I'm fairly mechanical and replaced the timing belt recently, but this might require an expert. Can anyone recommend a good mechanic in the San Antonio, Tx. area. Thanks in advance. Bob T.

[JPI]

Bob,

What lifter are you referring to? Your vehicle doesn't have a VVT-i system. It has a bucket sitting on the valve spring. I never see those stuck before. I would do a top-engine, it cleans all the valves and keep it from sticking. I would go ahead do a compression test. But i doubt it has anything to do with the compression. Good luck.

JPI

[AWJ]

Yea, that's a dual over head cam motor. No lifters. If anything, you could use a shim job. Are you seeing oil somewhere? If so, it is a valve cover gasket. Do you change the oil as recommended? You could try a fuel system cleaner and oil treatment.

If you are looking for a good mechanic, JPI is your man.

[Sadistic]

I would also suggest doing a leak down test. That will tell you which cylinders are having the problems, if that is the problem at all.

[thombiz]

Hi all, the problem I am having acts exactly like a hydrolic valve lifter gone bad in the old Ford/Chevy V8 days. When I start it up in the morning, it acts as if the lifter has gone flat until oil is pumped into the lifter then it acts normal. Lately though, at idle and low throttle, it acts as if it has a slight miss, and as RPM's increase, it smooths right out. When I bought the car it had 64,000 miles and now has 103,000 miles.

When I went to my Mitchell Manual CD, it called out a lifter ( maybe JDI's "bucket") being between the camshaft lobe and the top of the valve stem. It also showed the shim. The image was an exploded view so I couldn't tell for sure the sequence of the parts. I presumed the lifter was like the older style hydrolic lifters and was leaking or something. Just before I purchased the car, the dealership did a Bilstein engine flush. I suspected the Bilstein flush somehow damaged any seals in the lifter. Recently I've put a can of Berrymanns system cleaner in a half tank of gas and no change at all. And I've put the Berrymans system cleaner in several times over the past 6 years with little impact. The engine uses very little oil between 3500 mile oil changes, maybe 1/4 to 1/3 quart. My next thought was to do an Amsoil engine flush then switch to Amsoil synthetics to see if that helps. I've tried going to 40 weight Valvoline oil, etc. with little change.

For sure, there is no oil problems on the outside now. I had one of the leaky valve cover gaskets (exhaust side), but I installed a new gasket and solved that problem. One point about the valve cover gasket, when I removed the cover, I was surprised at how dry the top end looked. It was getting oil, but didn't glisten with oil like my old BMW did.

JDI, is the bucket you refer to a two piece contraption and is it likely to go flat or not pump up for whatever reason?

Again, thanks in advance. Bob T.

Email: thombiz@aol.com

[thombiz]

Mitchell's lists the following specifications for Valve Lifters for the 2JZ-GE:

Bore Dia: 1.2205-1.2211

Lifter Dia: 1.2191-1.2195

Oil Clearance

Standard: .0009-.0020

Wear Limit .0028

[AWJ]

Has the 80,000 mile maintenance been done on the car? If not, have it done. Go from there. You can do the amsoil thing - it won't hurt, but that it is a critical service time at 80 and 160.

[JPI]

The valves on your vehicle tend to stick due to carbon build up. You will need to get a top engine clean. Find a vaccum source in the intake manifold and let it sucks all that stuff into the combustion chamber. Shut it off and leave the car *BLEEP* overnight. It should clean all of carbon off. I would let someone know what they are doing do this job. I've seen people bend the valves this way. Law of physic, fluid doesn't compress. Something has to give, The valve that is!

JPI

[AWJ]

JPI, he should let the car sit overnight.

Not *BLEEP* overnight. Although that might be what it looks like in there.

;)

[JPI]

JPI, he should let the car sit overnight.

Not *BLEEP* overnight. Although that might be what it looks like in there.

;)

lol ..........sorry

JPI

[thombiz]

Thanks JPI for the valve sticking tip. I can see where that could act like a bad lifter. I'll get busy today and see if there is someone here in Corpus Christi who has experience doing the top engine. I'll post how it turns out. Thanks again!

[thombiz]

Took the Lexus to Toyota to do the top engine flush ($59.95). I figured if they were to hydrolic a cylinder at least they would stand behind it and correct any screw ups. Picked the car up this afternoon and it seems to be about like before, but will withhold judgement until the car sets overnight.

While at Champion Toyota I asked the Service Writer, about valve lifters and he said Toyota hasn't used them in years. But see, my Mitchell CD keeps refering to valve lifters, so before I go back to Champion Toyota to pick up the Lexus, I print out the section of the Mitchell Manual which refers to valve lifters and present it to the Service Writer. Sure enough, he says "the Mitchell Manual is wrong, there are no valve lifters, only shims". "Its been that way for years now!" So I walk over to the parts counter and have the parts tech look up a '95 Supra with a 2JZ-GE engine and look at the parts associated with the valve assembly and VOILA there is a valve lifter. So I call over the Service Writer and have him look at the exploded view and he says, "Its not like that, there are no valve lifters". So I ask the parts guy if the number is a valid part number and he says yes. Finally, the Service Writer acquieses, yes there are valve lifters. Part number 13751-74020 is a Valve Lifter required on the valve assembly of 2JZ-GE engines. The Valve Lifter price is $14.55 each in Toyota dollars.

So lets assume the top engine flush did lots of good in other areas but didn't correct the problem. Whats it cost and where's a good place to get the valve lifters replaced and get the valves adjusted? Thanks.

[AWJ]

Mind if I take a look at that diagram you are talking about? Or could you scan and attach it if possible? I'm wondering if they are calling it a valve lifter and maybe it isn't what a traditional valve lifter might be. That's really strange. The cams push directly down on the valve stem through a shim I thought.

[thombiz]

Hi AWJ, I went to my Mitchell Manual CD but was unable to capture the image in JPG format so I printed it and if you will email me with your address, I'll put the printout of the exploded view in the mail tomorrow. For the record, the exploded view is the exact same image the Toyota Parts Department used when they looked up the Supra 2JZ-GE head assembly. When you get the images, the item #33 is the valve lifter. On the Toyota micorfiche, they used the numberr #13751 in lieu of #33.

Email: thombiz@aol.com

Enjoy, Bob T.

[AWJ]

Can you do a screen capture? cntrl+v I think. Then past it into paint cntrl+p. That should allow you to save it as a .jpg . Make sure you have a full screen image though or too much browser will show unless you edit it from paint. If not I will send you my addy. Better yet, if you fax it to me at work tomorrow, I will scan and post it for everyone. I'll PM you my fax #.

Thanks man,

AJ

[thombiz]

I'll try the screen capture!

Follow up:

After a couple attempts, I was able print the screen image to an Acrobat read file then capture the image from Acrobat as a bitmap and paste the bitmap into "PAINT". I sent both images, the bitmap and the Acrobat file to AWJ.

[AWJ]

Hey guys, I'll post this real quick. Gallery is down so I can't link the image, I'll have to upload here. Just click it. Seems position 33 is indeed called a valve lifter. I have no idea why. Valve lifters typically sit in a valve lifter bore and actuate a push rod or rocker are directly. I guess in the pure definition, it could be a valve lifter in the idea that it actually transfers the cam action to the valve stem through the shim. But I would not call it a valve lifter. Perhaps it is something lost in translation. I would call it a spring cap or lash cap if I were the engineer on the job. But I wasn't so it's a valve lifter. Bob, you need a shim job to remove your clicking noise. Clearance will need to be checked with a thickness gauge and shims added per field manual until to proper clearance specification is reached according to the field manual. I would not recommend going to the dealer for that job. But there might be a service tech somewhere at a dealer that would do it right. Who knows. I think JPI will do it right for a better price. Best of luck.

[thombiz]

After setting overnight, the problem was there again this morning. The top engine may have helped other things but not the core problem. I really need to talk to someone who knows exactly how these lifters work.

[AWJ]

Bob, it is clear in the diagram. The cam lobe through it's duration pushes the position 33 "lifter" down compressing the spring and contacting the valve stem through the shim opening the valve for the cam lobe duration and lift. The click you hear is greater than oem clearance between the "lifter" and shim. That is your clack, clack, clack on cam rotation you are hearing. Until you have the cams re-shimmed, you will hear this. My car does it too. It is part of the 80,000 and 160,000 preventive maintenance jobs. You will find the valves start to click before that around 60,000 and onward. It is normal. Mine click clack. I'm not that worried about it. In fact, every vehicle I've ever owned (all over head cam) motors do it. Some to more of an extent than others. A heavier weight motor oil might quiet it down. You can clean the head all day long every day, you will still hear the click. It is the interference between the upper valve train.

[thombiz]

I called the Service Manager at Northpark Lexus in San Antonio and presented the problem to him. He wasn't 100 percent sure, but thought the valve lifter was one solid piece. He referred me to Craig at Auto Import Service (361) 855-6421 here in Corpus Christi. He thought Craig was a up to speed on the Lexus's and would be able to get things corrected. I called Craig and made an appointment for this afternoon to drop off the car so it can set overnight at their shop. I'll keep posted the results as they come in. Craig quoted me a price of about $365 to adjust the valves which seems more than reasonable to me.

[AWJ]

I'd say that is the best price you will find. I'm impressed actually.

[JPI]

Dear Bob,

There aren't any valve lift in this engine. It's not a honda. $365 is not bad of a price. That is how much we charge here. Good luck and let us know.

JPI

[thombiz]

So.....Inquiring minds want to know? Yesterday, I ordered a valve lifter part #13751-74020 from Toyota. It arrived today and I got it home and tried to cut it in half with a hacksaw. It was hardened steel and the hacksaw just bounced off of it. Where a hacksaw failed, a bench grinder did the trick, exposing the cross section of the valve lifter. It is one solid machined piece, no hydraulics to it. No matter which way it turned out, its good to know the truth. That means AWJ was correct that the valve needed to be adjusted. I've made an appointment for Monday morning to have that done at Import Auto Service here in Corpus Christi.

[AWJ]

Damn Bob. That is one way to do it. Pretty cool actually. I like it. That thing really should be called a lash cap. Thanks for posting that.

[thombiz]

We got the car back yesterday after having the valves adjusted. Guess what! All the valve lashes were within spec! :o Yep! Intake and Exhaust. It did rattle a bit again today when I first started up. Only thing left has to be sticky valves! I'm not sure what the top end flush by Toyota entaled, but I may try Amsoils foaming upper engine cleaner in the next couple days. If that doesn't work, it must be normal and nothing to worry about.